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Comments
I am also wondering about the after sale service. I have seen some ppl's post about how the after sale service is very important and how some dealers might offer free oil change or loaner car after purchase a car with them. So what exactly is the standard service I should expect from a dealer if I buy a car from them? :confuse:
They expire on 12/31/05...so you must take delivery on or before then to use the zoom-zoom coupon.
I contacted both carsdirect and my credit union's car buying service about a 3i AT. I heard back from the credit union service first, so I went that direction. I later heard back from Brookdale Mazda's (outside Minneapolis) Internet Sales Manager in response to my carsdirect request. I emailed him to let him know that I was working the deal with the CU service and was getting a pretty good deal ($200 over invoice, but I didn't tell him that). He emailed back saying he could beat the CU service by going to invoice.
I let my CU service know that the dealership they work with was doing this, and the CU guy got in contact with the new car manager at the dealership. The manager was able to match the straight invoice price for th CU service, and was apparently really embarassed that the Internet sales guy tried to undercut the CU service. The whole point of the CU service is to take dealership negotiating tactics out of the equation, right?
Anyway, I'm able to get the car at straight invoice. $16,825 for a 3i Touring with AT and the ABS/Side Airbag package. It's kind of fun when a salesman is unethical and ends up getting me a better deal as a result.
Tell him $19,350 plus TT&L
But really $19,500 - $150 over invoive is a pretty good deal.
Just be ready - my guess is before you are done with this deal they will try and add something - make you take their financing - buy an extended warranty - or some other last ditch attempt to get you to pay a few hundred more.
Just be nice about it - but stay firm - no add ons - no crummy fees - and when they say - this is a standard charge that we add to all deals and everyone always pays it - just say no thanks.
DC Area.
bascially $300 over invoice & 1000 under MSRP OTD.
It's the regional ad fee charged dealers by Mazda. It's a legit part of the cars cost. they range from $150 to $350...If you read the details on edmunds they point out the ad fees vary per region and are not reflected in their pricing..
Sure it is a good story to tell if you are selling cars - we MUST charge you this fee because WE MUST pay it - seems fair - but thats just not how things get priced.
Here is what EDMUNDS says -
If an advertising fee appears on the invoice, it is an actual cost that the dealer paid to the manufacturer when buying the vehicle. In other cases dealers may choose to write in their own ad fees on the consumer sales contract. However, in either case these advertising fees are just one example of the dealer's cost of doing business. As with all such dealer-itemized fees, consumers should treat as "negotiable" any advertising fee they are asked to pay
Sure - the dealership must - in the long run - have more revenue than they have expenses - if they want to stay in business - but that does not mean they need to get it from you.
Supply and demand & the ability of each party to negotiate determines the price paid - this is just a plain simple fact.
I guess I should continue to try to get rid of that extra $150 ad fee he try to add to my "invoice price". At the same time, he is actually willing to email me the "drive off price" as listed below:
Selling Price $19,500
documentation 45
state tax 1514.74
state tire fee 8.75
zoom-zoom coupon -500
(upon presentation)
"out the door price" $20,754.49
This list has a few things I am still not clear about or need to work on.
first is that extra $150 show on the sale price althogh he said he is selling me at invoice price.
Then there is no title and licence fee listed...I dont think he is so nice that include that fee somewhere already...?
And then I had no idea there is a state tire fee...maybe its a regular fee? @.@~
So consider I just get $500 zoom zoom coupon from a friend, the price seem to be not bad...but those added charges and not listing title charge is kinda fishy.... :confuse:
Selling price + tax + dox fee + tire fee
$19,500 + $45 + $1514.74 + $8.75 = $21068.49
deduct zoom-zoom coupon (treated as rebate)
$21068.49 - $500 = $20568.49
Add DMV fees:
$20,568.49 + $186 = $20754.49
Notes:
- The doc fee of $45 is standard in California
- tire fee is legit (state imposed)
- the DMV fee of $186 is right for this price (I paid $184
and my selling price was $18.9K)
- The $500 zoom-zoom coupon is treated as a rebate, and
as such as deducted after sales tax is added
The only question is about the price of $19,500 which is $150 higher than Edmunds's invoice price. The Mazda imposed advertising fee of $150 is legitimate, and I was told about it as well. Sure, the price is always nogtiable because dealers make a profit even selling at invoice or below and I heard of people getting their Mazda3 for Edmund's invoice or even a little less, but overall $19,500 is a very good deal. As I said the rest of the number are OK as well. It's a good idea to get this breakdown in advance so you know they won't try adding any charges and fees at the last moment (which sometimes they try).
Even though this deal is fair, if you don't mind negotiating, you can try to offer them $20.5K OTD and see if they go for it. Good luck
There is an extra $186 someplace - sounds like about the amount of license and title fees - maybe they just forgot to give that line item, just a guess.
The everything is negotiable is true - but everyone needs to balance out the time & effort they spend against the chances of getting a lower price.
You could spend all day trying to get them to drop the $150 ad fee - maybe end up with a $75 reduction - only you can decide is it worth a day of your life sitting in a car dealership for $75 -
Overall the price you are getting is pretty good - you will always see a post from someone who will say they payed a lower price - can't feel bad about it -
So now that I am kinda ready to go this dealer to check out/get this car....since everyone said the price is pretty reasonable, not the best ever but pretty good already....one thing edmound recommend ppl to do is to bring an approved loan from E-loan first to make sure not get rip off on loan interest by dealer...so has anyone use E-Loan before? I read their policy and agreements, sounds like a pretty simple and straight forward process..but has anyone sucessfully use it before?
another things is...ehh..little embarassing to ask..so if I decide to take a car for the price they offer..what exactly do I need to check before I sign the paper and drive the car off the lot? This might sounds really silly but I want to be sure I check everything a new car might have problem with before i drive it home.
Af for E-Loan, my friend used it and it is pretty simple, they send you a check that you just fill out the amount on. But E-Loan is not cheap, and the APR they advertise on the site is reserved to the people with perfect credit. The APR you will actually get will be much higher and probably not as low as what you can get from most credit unions and even some banks. One of the best online credit unions is penfed.org which offers new vehicle loans for 4.99% APR.
As for taking delivery of the car, first thing check the mileage - it should be below 50 and optimally below 20 because sometimes cars which sit on the lot for a few weeks might have been used by the dealership staff or had many test drives, and I prefer to get a truely brand new car, and not something that a dozen people already drove and has 200 miles on it. Also check for any visible external defects like dents and scratches. Remember that the equipment on the car is under warranty so if anything is wrong with it, they will have to fix it, but dents and scratches they can always say that you caused it if you don't check before taking posession of the car.
Another thing is the issue of dealer add-ons that they will try to sell you. Most commonly this includes the extended warranty, the lojack, window etching, paint guard, leather guard, etc. DECLINE all of them - you can always purchase them later and at a much cheaper price elsewhere. Of the above, only extended warranty is really worth it and only if it comes reasonably priced. You can buy a 10 yr 100K miles 0 deductible extended warranty for around $1000, but the dealership will probably offer this for a lot more. In any case, you can BUY IT LATER over the phone or online, most likely for a lot less, so my advice is to decline that at the dealership. For more details on where you can get extended warranty for a good price, search mazda3forums.com.
So you have successfully negotiated the price of the car - now you get to negotiate the financing.
The truth is many new car dealers make more off of finance than they do selling cars. Here is how it works - just making up numbers for an example.
If a bank will give you a $20,000 loan at 6% for 60 months your payment would be $386.66 a month. But if the dealership can get you to agree to an 8% interest rate then your payment goes up to $405.53 - thats ONLY $18.87 more a month so many people think its not that big of a deal - but over 60 months thats an extra $1,132.
Many car dealers will tell you that THEY will finance you - 99.99999% of the time that is a lie - they will write the loan - but another company is actually going to loan you the money. This is not a big deal - but when the car dealership "sells" the 8% loan to the finance company they get paid MORE than $20,000. The finance company will discount the loan (in my example) at 6% so they will say that a $405.52 payment for 60 months at 6% is worth $20,976.15. The dealership just made an extra $976 by selling you a higher interest rate loan. The higher the rate they SELL YOU the more they can get for the loan. Many car buyers relax after they get the price of the car negotiated - and think - glad that is over - then they get handed over to finance and end up with a very high interest rate loan and give back all the money saved negotiating a low price on the car.
Finance will also try and sell you an extended warranty - (plus some other add ons) they will be more than happy to HELP you by just adding it in to the loan - they will be real nice - they will say something like - the PAYMENT will only go up by $32 a month - gee thats only about $1.00 a day more - and if the computer goes out in the car and you are out of warranty it can cost THOUSANDS of dollars to fix. Isn't it worth about $1.00 a day to not every have to worry about that!
BTW that $32.00 increase just cost you about $1,900 more in payments and increased you loan by about $1,600.
Not saying all extended warranties are bad (most are but not all) - but you need to look at that decision on its own.
This is why you need to find out - from your bank or Credit Union what a fair interest rate is for you.
Then you need to treat the finance as a negotiation.
They will never start with their best interest rate - so by knowing that you can get the money from the bank at 6% or whatever - that gives you a target to negotiate with. If they give you a lower rate than the bank then you just saved some money.
IF you really know that you will keep a car for 10 years and IF you know that you will not go over the miles allowed - and IF you get it cheap enough and IF it actually covers the things that break/wear out (will brakes be covered?) and IF the company you buy it from is still in business (never buy an extended warranty from Ed's House of Extended Warranties LTD) and IF your car breaks down more than average it could be a good thing.
Some will even refund your money under some situations - like if you never use it and change your mind in the first year - or if you total the car out. But some companies just say too bad - and keep your money.
I guess its just like everything else - shop around - do your homework and negotiate a good price and it can be good. Go into the finance department without doing your homework - and get taken to the cleaners.
If you would really average a lot more than $150 per year in repairs then there is a good chance the cost of the warranty will be more. Unless the warranty company estimates wrong - way wrong because they will try and price the thing to cover their estimated cost plus make some money. I would say on average you should have LESS cost in repairs that the cost of the extended warranty.
Even if you sell the car, the extended warranty is transferrable, and is a very important feature that helps sell the car and raise its value. That's because the extended warranty you purchase when the car is new (you can purchase it anytime in the first year of ownership) is not availalbe later when the car is already used, except maybe for a much higher price. So in fact selling a used car which already has extended warranty adds a lot of value to the car.
I agree 100% that a 3rd party warranty is not a good thing - unless issued by a very good company.
Many years ago I bought a Nissan PU - back then the manufacturer warranty was 12 months 12,000 miles. The truck was a demo had very low miles - but had been "put in service" (licensed) by the dealership for about 7 months. So at closing I found out that I had less than 5 months of warranty left - I told them to forget it - was leaving the dealership when they offered to sell me a 5 year / 75,000 mile zero deductible warranty at dealer cost - after an hour of negotiation they agreed to THROW IT IN FOR FREE.
What a deal - my LUCKY DAY!!
Well about 3 years latter I had some problems - drive shaft was replaced and the tranny was rebuilt - the bill was over $2,000 - no problem - all I needed to do was send the invoice in to the warranty company - well about a month went by before I heard from them - I got a letter that said they were in bankruptcy - and that they were trying to reorganize the company. I got more letters - about every 6 months or so - some were like little books with very fine print - then one day I got a letter from a law firm that gave me a choice.
I could settle my claim - which was over $2,000 - for $3.17 - THREE DOLLARS AND SEVENTEEN CENTS - all I needed to do was sign the form and a check would be issued to pay me in full - or If I did not want the settlement I could file some paper with the court or something.
I think this was the day that I decided that 3rd party extended warranties were not a good thing - EVEN IF THEY WERE FREE.
I guess you do get what you pay for - sometimes.
BTW - I tossed the letter in the trash - never even got my $3.17.
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=shoppingToolsWarrantyMEPP- -
So DO NOT BUY THE WARRANTY OFFERED BY THE DEALERSHIP because it's either a third-party warranty or it's Mazda's warranty (MEPP) but hugely overpriced. You can purchase MEPP anytime later during the first year of ownership (or until the car has a few thousand miles). You can purchase MEPP from any authorized agent, and if you refer to mazda3forums.com you will find places to buy it for a very reasonable price.
You will also find people who describe how this warranty saved them thousand of dollars after a few years of ownership.
I am in the market for a new car. I have decided on the MZ3, but not quite sure what trim yet. My question is: what would be the best time for me to buy the car, end of december or beginning of January? I will need it by mid Jan.
Also, what do most people feel about the cloth seats in the MZ3, is it worth upgrading to leather?
Thanks for your help
Analysis: the leather option indepenedently added to the touring model costs $500 and is worth it because I think the leather is nice and this is quite cheap option for a leather trim.
So if you're getting the GT, you will be paying $1000 more for the rest of the GT goodies (over the price of leather standalone), which is again a good price in my opinion as I particularly like the convenience of the auto climate, auto headlights, xenons and heated seats. On almost any other car these kind of options would cost a lot more.
If you like to have a moonroof, then the moonroof+6CD+bose package for the GT for $1100 is a good value. On the touring model, the moonroof+6CD package is also a very good value (I think it's about $800).
As far as leather goes - have had leather seats on our last 6 cars/trucks - planned on getting leather on the Mazda3 until I saw it. Without a doubt the cheapest lowest quality leather I have ever seen on any vehicle - after taking a test drive we decided to switch over to cloth.
The price Mazda charges for leather in the Mazda3 is very reasonable - but they must be using leather that no one else will buy - it felt very thick and hard - it was also slippery - kind of like the leather that is used when they make wing tip shoes - maybe the sale of wing tips are down so they have an excess quantity of cheap leather.
After a few months of wear it could break in and be fine - or maybe after a year it will crack - it could go either way.
That was about 22 months - 18,000 miles ago - the checker pattern is invisible to me now - and the material has held up well - I would even say it looks the same as when new.
One good thing about Mazda - they at least give you a choice (other than after market)- many companies don't even offer leather as an option on their entry level economy model.
The standard Mazda warranty offers roadside assistance
I'm in Houston...and the car's in Dallas. There's nothing in town that meets this approximate combination. Jeff Haas Mazda will trade with the other dealer and drive the car down for $300 (adding 150-200 miles)... and has offered to sell for $20900 (including Mazda's $210 advertising fee).
It's sight unseen... and if the car sux when it gets here... I'm out the $300 if I walk away, becasue 'Haas' says they incur that cost, regardless..by hiring the driver.
There's a nagging feeling in the back of my head that I'll get caught.
Thoughts? :confuse:
out of curiosity...did they say which dallas area dealer they were going to swap with?
good luck with your decision.
Talked with the salesman, today...and am still waiting to hear if they'll back-off the 'non-refundable' part of the deposit.
Its the dealerships responsibility to HAVE THE CAR in stock - or be willing to go get it for you. This is not some EXTRA service they are doing - its one of their CORE responsibilities.
I live in Houston - bought my Mazda3 in January 2004 - I did not pay any advertising fee -
I would find a dealer that wants my business more than these guys do. The way I look at it you are starting $510 in the hole.
As for price, the manual GT w/moonroof invoice is about $19.6K and that's the price you should be shooting for. I would not pay more than $200-$300 over invoice, based on what I read other people's deals. The dealers make very nice profit even selling at invoice.
btw, the manual GT sedan with moonroof/bose is a great choice, that's what I bought. Great car. regarding the accessories, go to mazda3forums.com there are many accessoires you can buy for this car, with a lot more selection and better prices than some accesosires offered by mazda. In general he official mazda and mazdaspeed accessories are overpriced. So I would try not buy any acceossires from them as factory installed options, despite the convenience of getting them with the car. It's still usually not worth it.
Just wanted to let you know that I received my $500 Mazda rebate yesterday
As expected... a bit of pressure on the 'non-refundable' deposit has caused the dealer to back-off. If they can get the car...we'll deal on the price. I was simply asking for thoughts about that deposit.
As for the car's features: They aren't all things I 'wanted' (i.e. 'satin aluminum fuel door' as listed on mazda's website). Rather...they were options on this car that was located outside my market. BTW... have not, so far, found an '06 GT manual w/roof-radio in color(s) that I'd want, in Houston. Still looking...and am willing to wait rather than take a bad deal.
Thanks for the thoughts.
I think mine *was* a Gerber rebate. I'm not sure though. I had signed up for a rebate on the Mazda website. They later sent me an email stating that dealers no longer process it and that I had to send in the documents to Mazda by mail. I sent in my mail in rebate at the end of October. Like sunsh05, I got both the Zoom-Zoom and the "other rebate". Just to summarize my deal it was an ad car, Mazda 3i with Auto and AC as the only options:
MSRP: $16,050
Sale Price: $13,988
After Rebates: $12,988
This is in CA, so there was 8.25% tax (on the $13,988) plus title/license. Doc fees were $40. The salesguy threw in floor mats, which are like $50 MSRP.
So my total price on this out-the-door is about $14,350 after rebates. Not a bad deal I think. Let's see how well it holds up.
Take a drive in a Mazda3 with the roof open before you spend the $ on this option - it generates so much wind noise that I don't see how anyone can drive with it open.
Although we do tilt the moonroof open once in a while - because of the wind noise we never use the slide open feature (while moving).
Don't like the looks of the plastic deflector - so that is not an option. In 2004 to get the CD changer you had no choice - had to take the moonroof.
Thanks.
I am sure many people have had this situation - Dealership says they are selling all cars at invoice - then you find out that to them invoice means invoice plus a $250 doc fee and a $600 advertising fee plus $600 for the paint protection plus plus plus. I even had a dealership try and tell me that the "ADM" hand written on the invoice was part of the invoice cost. ADM = Additional Dealer Mark-up. The sales guy even kept a straight face when he insisted this was "REALLY" part of the dealerships invoice. He was either stupid or a good liar - or both.
The way I look at it you must consider the price - the trade in - the financing - and any other items like an extended warranty - all as a package. What good is it to get a deal $200 under invoice and then accept $2,000 less for your trade (than it is worth) or agree to a very high interest rate loan - even though you have a good credit rating.
For me I have the best luck when I negotiate each item individually - but still make my overall decision based on the whole deal. But you can find 100 different opinions on the best way to buy a car.
Good Luck.
At Wayne: First I talked to the Internet Manager who took down my information, car I wanted, car I had. Then I got transferred to staff member to appraise the car. Once again I had to give out my info, what car I wanted, what car I had. He then went to appraise my car, returned talking about scratches, etc. He appraised it at about 50% of what kbb said it's worth. At that point I said thank you and I will keep contact through the email, and would haggle for the trade-in and new car price. He politely asked just what I had in mind. I made mistake and told him what I wanted, then I made another mistake when I said I'd wait while he gets the manager. Manager comes back and begins to explain to me how unreasonable I am and no person in the right mind would pay that much for that car. On my comment that I don't want to argue he says that we just talking. After several times probing me to agree on the lower price he wishes me luck, and finally I leave.
In the end I spend 1hr 20m at the Wayne dealership, at both other dealerships I spend 15min each.
I am working with Ramsey dealer, they searching for my car and I will post my price after I take delivery.
06 Mazda3 i Touring
Sunlight Silver
4 sp Automatic
6cd / moonroof pkg
Cargo Net & Wheel locks
Invoice is $17174
I paid $17200 + $299 doc fee + TTL. Then subtract $500 for the Zoom Zoom coupon. Out the door price of $18,089
It was $17400 but then i complained about the $299 fee. So they dropped the purchase price $200.
Maybe I could have saved a few more $$, but I think i did good. Don't you?
+ rear bumper plate + cargo net + automatic dimming mirror (these things came with it and did not nec want)
copper red mica
invoice at $19007-$500 z-z coupon=$185007 + TTL
what do you think? it's in the color i really want and has been a bit difficult to find.
this is in MD.
thanks!!