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New 2005 Altima: Interior and other info
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Say you drive 15K a year. A gallon of gas is $1.80. YOu will need about 600 gallons of gas (at 25mpg) for the non hybrid Camry for a year. The price of 600 gallons of gas would come to about $1080.
For the hybrid Camry (averaging 32mpg) you will require about 469 gallons to cover the same 15K miles in one year. Your gas bill would come to about $844 dollars.
Your net saving would be $236 a year. Dividing 7000/236 = 29.67. That means you have to own the hybrid Camry for almost 30 years to recoup extra $7000 you spent.
Where did you get the $7000 number from? That seems incredibly high? Are the Accord and Altima Hybrids going to cost this much more money? I dont think so. Additionally, economies of scale will dicate (to a certain point), that with every unit of "Hybrid Synergy Drive" technology produced, relative costs will decrease. Toyota also has revenue coming in from simply LICENSING the technology to Carlos Ghosn and Nissan. I would estimate that a Hybrid Camry would cost $3000-$4000 more than a similarly eqipped traditional Camry, at most. If it was going to add $7000 to the price, do you think Toyota/Nissan/Honda would even bother- there'd be no consumers, especially for Toyota, whose customers could walk across the showroom and get a Prius!?!
Have you seen pricing for the Civic Hybrid? Its about 2.5 grand more than for the Civic EX.
~alpha
PS- the Camry 3.3L V6 is rated at 20/29, the Camry 3.0L V6 is rated at 21/29. Also, I liked your analysis of the cost equation, but prices for gas will NOT remain fixed for the duration of vehicle ownership, so it would actually take less than the number of years you calculated to recoup the initial current value expenditure. And what happens if gas prices double?
Don't get me wrong; I am not against hybrid cars by any means. In fact 10 to 15 years down the road when gas prices could well top $2 per gallon, they may be as popular as non hybrid cars. But at least for the next few years, buying a hybrid benefits the environment more than the wallet.
People predicted many things like that in the past 30 years, but gas engines keep chugging along. Some of them are very clean, rated 'Partial Zero', yet people still have this image of 100% smoke coming out the tail pipes.
The whole hybird issue is for greenies to look at a maker as "great", ignoring their gas hogging SUV's, case in point Toyota. They get awards for the Prius, while they are buiding a plant to make more full sized trucks. And I don't see any hybrid big trucks coming.
BUT: Toyotas next full size truck will offer a hybrid powertrain, check the auto show reports.
~alpha
Also, the 3.5SE now gets 20 mpg in the City and 30 mpg on the HWY
thanks
~alpha
Nissan really needs to work on better gas mileage for the I4. That is almost sad.
Also, the rims found on the 3.5SL model over at Nissannews.com will be used on the 2.5S with Conv. pkg and the 2.5SL.
The cloth pattern in the new cars is better than the older model and of higher quality.
Nissan must have really learned there lesson on this car.
So you're seeing the 2005s on the lots? What about prices? I dont see a news release yet on nissannews.com, but yet there must be stickers on vehicles already shipped, correct?
~alpha
I went back over to the dealer, now they have a 2.5S with Conv. Plus pkg, side sills, visor and other accessories.
Looked good too.
~alpha
I went back over to the dealer, now they have a 2.5S with Conv. Plus pkg, side sills, visor and other accessories.
Looked good too.
2005 Altima
Altima 2.5 S M/T $19,050
Altima 2.5 S A/T $19,550
Altima 2.5 SL A/T $23,400
Altima 3.5 SE M/T $23,100
Altima 3.5 SE A/T $23,750
Altima 3.5 SL $26,900
Destination $560
Convenience Package $1,680
Convenience Plus Package $2,500
Premium Convenience Package $3,300
Power Glass Sunroof $850
Sport Package $1,250
Sport Plus Package $2,600
Leather Package $3,000
Leather Sport Pkg $3,900
Side Airbags $500
ABS & Side Airbags Package $800
TCS & Side Airbags Package $800
Navigation Package $2,000
Navigation (includes W01 Leather
Sport Pkg) $5,900
Splash Guards $120
16" Chrome Wheels $1,310
17" Chrome Wheels $1,360
Fog Lamps $290
Sunroof Wind Deflector $80
Protection Package $70
Carpeted Floor/Trunk Mat Set
(5-Piece) $150
Side Sills and Rear Splash Guards $320
The Convienence Pkgs are for the 2.5S models
The sunroof option is for the 2.5SL ONLY. 3.5SL has sunroof standard
The Sport pkg., Sport Plus pkg., Leather pkg, Leather Plus Pkg. are for the 3.5SE.
Navigation pkg that's $5900 is for the SE and includes all the options in the Leather Sport pkg.
Side Airbags ($500) or for the 2.5S ONLY
ABS and SAB pkg is for the 2.5S,2.5SL and 3.5SE
TCS and SAB pkg is for the 3.5SE and 3.5SL
Navigation pkg for $2000 is for the 2.5Sl and 3.5Sl
I hope I am not overdoing it.
Anyway, I look forward to driving a 2005 soon.
~alpha
P.S. A hybrid Tundra really. I read in TRUCK TREND magazine that the next Tundra will get a 5.8L DOHC gasoline engine rated at 360 Hp and 400 lb-ft of torque.
One additional fly in the ointment is the "assumption" that the "average" will only be 32 mpg.
As I wrote previously I was told by an Acura fleet manager the new CL will get 40 mpg -- so we can't assume an SUV's mileage (the Toyota Highlander) will be the same as a sedan's.
Also, one interesting difference between the Hybrids is they get better CITY (i.e., stop & go driving) mileage than highway -- the opposite of traditional gas engines.
Also, I live in California where they force you to get "smog" tested every 2 years. Of course Hybrids will not require this, and I'm also "assuming" (because they run significantly cleaner) oil changes, filters, etc. will be fewer -- also adding to the savings.
As for the $7,000 price difference -- I doubt it. I could see a $2,000 or so price difference, but then taking "economies of scale" into consideration, as production increases, prices will decrease.
As to my "guess" that traditional gas engine vehicles will face greater depreciation -- I will stand by that as I see this industry going the way of the music industry when CDs took over (almost overnight) records. Why? Because it's in the auto makers best interests to do so... less EPA involvement, tax benefits, and I think someone else on this board stated they actually make higher profits on a "per car basis" with hybrids. Thus, if the auto makers embrace the technology and phase out traditional gas engines, existing traditional gas engine vehicles will lose value.
Moreover, unlike the "predictions" of 30 years ago, Hybrids are both on-the-road as we speak and more are coming from every major auto maker.
Hey... I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone here, I just believe if its in the auto makers' "financial" interests to go Hybrid, they will follow their wallets.
(:-D
Did you know that RJR makes a cigarette that shares your username? Just thought Id mention it. I guess it just shows the power of advertising, and growing up in a fully commercialized society, cause its the first thing I thought of when I saw your username.
~alpha
As to the "Ultima" username, it actually came from my girlfriend at the time I purchased my Altima. I had told her I was going to get one and I remember her saying, "Why... That's not exactly a 'classy' looking car??!" -- she had no idea Nissan had redesigned the Altima and was comparing it to her friend's mid 90's Altima.
Long story short, I took her with me to the dealer to pick it up and she gasped, "THAT'S AN ALTIMA?!! WOW... It's Beautiful ! ! !"
According to her, it was a mistake to continue calling the car an "Altima" because those having never seen the new redesign would not even consider one. She said, "Nissan should have called this car an 'Ultima', it's not even the same car anymore!" i.e., Ultimate + Altima = Ultima
So, that's where my Username came from...
Now, let's move on to where the Easter Bunny came from, shall we? OK, maybe not...
(:-D hee...hee...hee...
The layout reminds me a lot of the Camry SE.
Even the basic 2.5S has a nice interior and is in some ways nicer than the LX. The EX verison of the Accord still beat the Altima overall in interior design/materials, but the Altima is at least on par with it this time.
I could have brought the Accord LONG ago, but I had faith in Nissan and I knew they would improve that car with time. It has happened, and I am ready to get one!
The Altima's use of chrome is much better and the interior has an integrated feel to it that was never present in the 2002-2004s. The materials have improved and the design is MUCH MUCH better than before.
The Exterior changes aren't bad either and the new grille actually looks better than the older one.
No joke.
And forget Nissan's stability control, you cant even get it on the Alti.
That said, I am a Nissan fan, and overall do feel the 2005 freshening has solved many Altima issues, but clearly- not ALL of them.
~alpha
And on top of that, you can't get the airbags and curtains without the ABS.
Burns me up somewhat.
http://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/ModelHomePage/0,,32958,00.html
The biggest disappointment is that they no longer have the arm rest that pops up. I thought this was one of the best features of the Altima's interior.
So I honestly don't know what everyone is seeing new in the 2005's. Maybe my opinion is slanted because I never thought the 2004 interior was that bad. Not as nice as Honda or Toyota, but not bad either.
If it was me, I'd go for a leftover 2004 or 2003 and save thousands while getting that cool arm rest.
As a matter of fact, according to some parts of Nissanusa.com website, ABS is supposed to be standard on the 3.5Sl and the 3.5SE with automatic transmission. 5spd 3.5SE don't have it standard.
However, Nissanusa.com "Design Your Own" says ABS with SAB/SAC is an option.
I hope just wish I could find a loaded 3.5SE with ABS/SAB/SAC and Leather Sport Pkg. or Leather pkg.
Also, the wood trim looks very nice in person IMO.
I still like the Charcoal interior best though
I understand most people don't worry about accidents when they buy a car, but Nissan could make this stuff standard for just a few hundred bucks. For most of us, most of the time, these safety items are unnecessary. But, you never know when you will need them.
I am buying an Acura TL, no need to mess with Nissan's games.
The TL deals (non-nav) right now are pretty much 30K to 31K at best, although that may come down later in the year. And, of course, you are speaking of two different classes of cars: a entry-luxo compared to a standard midsize. The TL is a terrific car for the money. It blitzes the Maxima.
however...
when dealers research the equipment on the cars they sell in order to compile an order that will sell, they do it in a scientific way...
last time we had an altima with the ABS package, it sat here for 6 months. noone wanted to pay extra for it. this is why manufacturers like special orders. 6-8 weeks and you have EXACTLY what you want.
ramped...you are just like many of my customers...you want the car that isnt available immediately...and you want it NOW!!! personally, i dont follow the logic.
Maybe the reason the ABS/bags car sat on the lot for six months is that it had other options that people didn't want. When I do see an Altima with the bags package, it us usually loaded with leather, roof, the works. Who knows why some cars don't sell? I find it hard to believe that the thousand or so the ABS package costs would make a car unsellable, but you are in the trenches, so I'll take your word for it.
A) ABS should be standard anyway. You shouldn't have to pay EXTRA for safety features.
The car is already expensive in the first place, so adding ABS to the car would only make the price higher.
For example, I was calculating my car payments over at Cars.com. The Accord similarly equipped is in some cases $1000-$2000 cheaper than the comparable Altima, and yet it has some features that aren't offered on the Altima.
Now, the Altima for the most part has the power driver's seat (Conv. pkg for S), Xenons available on the SE and standard on the 3.5SL, BUT, the Accord offers dual-zone climate control, a power passenger's seat on the EXV6 sedan and has better resale value.
This decision gets tougher and tougher.
I have to keep pricing in mind because I will be going off to college in the fall and the lower the payments, the better.
With what I want to put down, the Accord EX-L will run me about $199 a month for 60 months, while the Altima 2.5SL will run me nearly $225 a month. Not much of a difference, but a DIFFERENCE. If you know what I mean.
The coupe looks nice, however, but it is just too small for someone as big as me.
Also, from Carsdirect.com, the Mazda6 is cheaper than the Accord or Altima because of rebates, so payments for a M6 would be even lower.
My three choices are down to the Accord, Altima and 6. I did consider the Passat, but the Altima's price is already pushing it, and the Passat is more expensive than the Altima comparably equipped.
I am trying to make myself like the Accord for the sake of its value, reliablity, refinement (Interior is incredible, adjustable headrest,etc.) and resale value. However, I smile when I think about the Mazda6 and especially the Altima.
The interior was the only thing that kept me from getting the Altima back in 2002, and even though the interior of the 2005 is a VAST improvement over the 2002-04s, it still isn't quite on the Accord's level. It's damn near close though.
I have been roaming these boards since the hey day of the 2000 Nissan Maxima. Now that I have finally gotten my shot at getting a new car, the decision becomes much harder.
hey Maxx:
if you've got to make yourself like something, don't get it. that's been my experience with cars, clothes, guitars and relationships. if you like the mazda 6 and altima the best, choose one of those man.
i'm looking at the mazda 6 wagon myself, but i still cannot decide between 2 or 3 final choices. the mazdas are priced pretty good tho, huh? i'll reserve judgement til the test drive.
I thought I would like the hatch the best, but I actually like the wagon better than the sedan or the hatchback.
The pics they have are really nice. I was looking through my Motortrend Magazine (April Issue) and I noticed they had a brief write up on the hatch/wagon versions.
The wagon looks the best IMO.
As for right now, the Altima is my first choice, even though it is the most expensive so far, and is somewhat overpriced.
I can get a fully loaded Accord EXV6 for almost the same price as a loaded 2.5S with SL pkg, ABS and moonroof.
Just by reading your posts over the past year or so, you seem pretty set on a sporty sedan, primarily the Altima. I see you are now thinking about the Accord, which is a wise move on your part. It is the best all around midsize sedan for the price. Period. I almost bought one over the Christmas break, but I backed off for the same reason you did - didn't like the sedan's styling. And I'm almost a 50-year old gomer with two kids. So I know where you are coming from.
At your age, if I can remember back that far, cars are meant for fun (and, of course reliabilty and safety, which you seem to have carefully considered).
So, going solely by the fun factor, I would think you would be happier in the Altima or the MZ6 than an Accord. Remember, at your age, you have plenty of time to buy the responsible grown up sedan. My advice: Get the hottest-looking wheels you can and have fun, dude!
This info can be found over at Nissannews.com
I am so darn confused now.
However, Ramped, the Accord has EXCELLENT value and EXCELLENT resale value.
I wish I could take the best of the Accord and the best of the Altima and make it into ONE car.
It sounds like all 3 that you're considering are good choices. My personal experience with Mazda reliability & driving fun was fantastic.
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