Hybrid Honda Accord

anon1 · January 2005

Hello folks. We picked up an early HAH, and I was wondering what others' experiences were, so I started looking around here and thought I'd share my experiences.

We started a local waiting list in July, placed deposit for MSRP, paid MSRP about the end of the first week of December when the first car arrived (which we had more-or-less ordered). We now have over 2400 miles of mixed driving: more city/less highway driving around Seattle (cold, but not a lot of freezing). I started keeping track of all mileage at odometer mile 89.

The numbers:

Overall: 2400 miles, 24.1 MPG.

Worst interval mileages: about 17MPG for two different short 80 mile fillups when cold/short trips/ mostly city.

Best interval mileage: 35.5 MPG for 127 mile trip of basically all highway, on cruise control 65-70 MPH most of the time. For one 10 mile section of this trip, on very flat roads, going 45-50, the computer listed just over 38MPG, but I was trying to be as light on the gas as I could possibly be.

2nd best interval mileage: 31.6MPG for 225 mile trip over a snowy mountain pass and back (two legs/two different days), part of the way 25-30 mph with cable chains.

Some thoughts:

The car has two drivers, split 50/50? My wife consistently gets 3-5MPG less than me, although I drive faster. I am definitely aware of the dashboard IMA charge/assist/economy lights, and tend to drive this car (consciously at first, less consciously now) with the goal of conserving fuel based on the feedback from the lights; my wife does nothing of the sort.

I think I saw in the owners manual that when the defrost is on, the A/C is on. This makes sense in order to defrost optimally, so it wouldn't surpise me. But when you turn on the defrost, the A/C On indicator does NOT turn on. When you switch back to regular airflow (not defrost), the A/C indicator is blank, and it may remain on still (???), because you can then push the A/C button and get an A/C Off sign, and then toggle between A/C On an A/C Off. So, when it's blank it confuses me. In any case, we find ourselves driving around with the defrost on a lot of the time because of the cold damp weather this time of year here, and I think we're using the A/C much more than one would expect, despite trying to remember to turn it off. A/C=worse mileage.

On cruise control on the highway, it doesn't do too bad. The large engine has a truly large capacity to burn fuel and sink your mileage in an instant. I have a great time driving it, I really like the power and acceleration, it is smooth and quiet. But hitting the gas too often simply sucks fuel like there was no tomorrow. This is completely to be expected for a heavy mid-sized car with 255HP. There is no (reasonable/insert your adjective here) way around the physics of moving that much mass that quickly and saving fuel in the process.

I see the car as the V6 Accord that I was tempted to buy for a couple of years, but with the added bonus of better mileage than a V6 Accord deserves, and slightly better performance. It is not an economy car; it is a relatively powerful car with slightly better mileage than expected.

If you tend to have a lead foot and love accelerating from stop lights, up hills, onto freeway onramps, and passing cars on the highway, then your mileage will be terrible. If you only do that when the occasional urge strikes :-) then you won't be too far off these numbers, I think.

My personal opinion is that whatever the primary drive system and fuel type of the future will be (gas/diesel/fuel cell/electric/whatever?) most cars will have a hybrid system built along with the primary system. Recapturing and reusing energy with a hybrid just makes too much sense, and can be used with most any primary fuel/engine source, for both economy and performance purposes. As the technology matures and proves itself, the price comes down, and it becomes widespread, it will be no big deal at all. Think of disc brakes, fuel injection, overhead cams, and whatever else....

Good day to all....

jrct9454 · January 2005

Thanks for a thoughtful and balanced summary. Sounds like you bought the car for the right reasons, and it's always good to hear a real owner's experiences. Please report back as the miles pile up.

fxtool · January 2005

Thanks for the post! I second your opinion on the mileage. I am still trying to drive in the eco zone, but with a 100% horsepower boost from my last car, it is quite difficult.

Sidebar: Is anyone driving with the climate control on auto like the manual suggests? That seems crazy but I am slightly concerned with mold growth in the a/c in the summer.

Anon1- Don't stay too anonymous, keep us posted.

Cheers

georgepburdell · January 2005

>> Maybe what you're hearing is a variation on the Noise cancelation problems another person has mentioned on this forum, particularly related to the VCM transitioning from 3 to 6 cylinders ( which if you're not doing highway cruising, would roughly match when the IMA kicks in)

I just don't know. There is static when the VCM starts up.

I spoke again to the Honda dealer service guy who had done all the work on my car, and told him about the 50 mph stretch with electric assist but no static. He was puzzled too, since his test drives included plenty of 50 mph driving and plenty of static.

ramseyny · January 2005

Very similar to my experience though my MPG is only 22 average. Overall a pretty nice car to drive. What part of the country are you in? I suspect that temperature plays a huge part in the mileage received.

backy · January 2005

I finally got to drive the HAH today, but it wasn't easy. I stopped into a local Honda dealer and asked a sales rep if they had any HAHes in stock (yes, just one) and could I drive it (no). "Oh, it's already sold," I offered. No, he said, they just didn't let anyone drive it. Hmmm, I opined, that would make it difficult for people to see if they like the car. He agreed. Could I as least LOOK at the car? Yes, and he went off to find a key. Fifteen minutes of searching later, he found a key and we went to the back lot to find it. It was sitting in a row of Accord coupes--silver without nav. He started it up and pulled it out. "C'mon," he said in a conspiratorial tone. And I slid into the driver's seat. He directed me to drive through the lot of the neighboring dealership, so we would not be seen. I felt like we were doing something illegal, which heightened the excitement of the test drive.

He told me we'd need to keep the drive short so the miles wouldn't be noticed. [Now, at this point I thought this was all an act, but he was either a great actor or was being sincere.] We hopped on the freeway for a little less than two miles, then went on some suburban streets. Total loop was 3.9 miles, about 60/40 city/highway. Highway was at 65 (the limit), and city was between 30-45.

Oh yes, the car. This is a very luxurious car. Extremely comfortable driver's seat. Very quiet, even under acceleration (totally silent at idle of course). Great light show from the gauges. Very powerful and smooth pick-up--and I only pressed it about 6/10ths, since it was new. I can imagine what it would do if I had floored it. Handling was not razor-sharp but excellent for a family sedan--just a hint of body lean on two sharp turns I did. The electronic steering was super-smooth, with almost no road feel, yet it didn't feel disconnected. Ride was generally well-behaved, but I noticed that small bumps like tar strips were felt rather abruptly, more so than on some smaller cars like the Cobalt and Mazda3. The switchgear had the typical Honda precision and quality feel. I didn't task the brakes and they felt normal--nothing odd about the operation or feel. Same thing for VCM. If it were not for the ECO light, I never would have known when the car dropped to 3 cylinders and switched back to 6.

The auto-stop was another matter. When coming to a complete stop, the car suddenly became totally silent. No noise or vibration accompanied the engine shutdown. But the instant I lifted my foot off the brake, the engine started up with a slight shudder. Which means the engine stopped and restarted a few times as I made my way through a left turn behind a line of cars. I'd rather that the car run on electric power only at low speeds, to avoid all the engine restarts on turns and when driving in stop-and-go traffic.

How about fuel economy? My drive was not optimal for fuel economy: cold start in cold weather, weaving through a parking lot, and driving just 3.9 miles with 3 stop lights and several stop signs along the way. The computer said I got 25.0 mph for the loop. That's what I estimate my 4-cylinder compact car would do under similar conditions. I accelerated briskly onto the freeway, but I tried to use a light foot on the city streets, and the ECO light was lit for much of the city segment. Based on this short drive, I think the fuel economy of the HAH will depend greatly on how it's driven. Drive it like a hot rod, and it will return hot-rod fuel economy. But ease up on the gas, and I think you'll have a good chance to exceed the EPA ratings once the engine is broken in and you figure out how best to keep the car cruising on 3 cylinders.

Did I like the car? Heck yes. If I were in the market for a powerful, mid-sized, near-luxury sedan, I'd definitely consider the HAH. But "powerful", "mid-sized", and "near-luxury" aren't high on my criteria for cars.

viet · January 2005

I filled up the second gas tank for my HAH today. Moat driving were in cities/ some on highways (with congested traffic):

MPG on dash: 28.9

Manually calculated MPG (with some margin of error, of course): 28.0

For the fist few times I saw my battery got charge 100%.

Today, I stopped by at the Toyota dealership where I had got heavily ripped off in 1993 for $500 to have my leaking cylinder sealed with...silicone. Here is some interesting info.:

New Prius 2005, package #3: Asking price $27,900 (with $3999.99 dealer mark up) + TTL. No Navi. 110 HP.

New HAH 2005 with Navi. :$32,505 + TTL, 255 HP.

Some other guys/gals bought their HAHs in Plano, Texas at MSRP with some minor accessories (Mudd guard, etc.) were given and installed by the dealerships.

Backy, do you like the HAH but will not consider buying one? The HAH handles sharp turns real well. I usually drive at 2000 RPM or a little bit more (at 60 - 70 MPH) so I constantly get pretty good MPG. The acceleration is really superb. The HAH is truely a sport car "camouflaged" under a sedan body.

backy · January 2005

I wouldn't consider buying one only because I'm not in the market for this kind of car right now. I drove it to be better educated as to how the latest in hybrid technology from Honda performs, and in case I win the lottery tomorrow and want to upgrade from one of my compact cars. Or maybe my stock options will take off and I'll suddenly have all this disposable cash burning a hole in my pocket. :-)

The comparison to the Prius is interesting. Some people are paying close to $30k for a new, loaded Prius. The HAH is much more car for that money. However, the Prius can return overall fuel economy in the mid-40s, maybe higher--about 50% over what the HAH should achieve, and has AT-PZEV emissions. The Prius also has out-there styling that says, "Look at me, I'm green!" So I suspect that the people willing to pay $30k for a Prius would not be interested in buying a HAH for the same money.

rlk · January 2005

As for the A/c causing worse mileage, I haven't noticed much of a difference on the tanks where I ran the a/c versus non/ac. The difference was actually less than 1 mpg. I'm unsure of the defroster/ac issue though. So far most of my tanks have been between 28-30mpg mixed driving. The outside temp and of course the way people are driving their cars seems to have a bigger influence.

On another forum though the was mention of an power over boost on the brakes which I have felt only a time or two. This happened after I started up the car and was pulling out of the parking lot. The car had not even reached 10mph and when I pressed on the brakes the car slammed to a stop like no other. For the next time or two that I touched the brakes the car was super touchy. What could the issue be and has anyone else experienced this???

electrictroy · January 2005

Strange. I've never heard any kind of interference on my Insight? I guess Honda redesigned the electronic DC/DC modules.

troy

ankh126 · January 2005

I just got my fifth tank of gas (I'm around 1100 miles), and finally saw some of the mileage numbers I was expecting. I don't know if it is because I am past the 'break-in' period, or if it's because Chicago finally saw some relatively 'balmy' weather here yesterday (about 38 degrees).

I had to drive into work, and since it was Sunday, made most of the lights. City driving at 35-40 mph, I try to keep the tach at or below 1500 rpm (on my HAH this is around 28-30 mph, or in the next gear up, around 40-42). Computer readout was about 27 mpg.

Next I had some highway driving, and I had about 34 mpg, going between 65-70 mph (hard to do in the Chicago area!), but the power is there in excess if I need to pull away from someone.

I have been using cruise control almost exclusively, even in city driving, because I find the car stays in the ECO zone on its own better than I can do it. Should I worry about engine wear doing this in city driving?

I do not have NAV, and I have not had any problems with static on either FM or XM radio. With FM I listen almost exclusively to public radio, which is 91.5. I've actually had more trouble with the XM, since it is blocked within parking structures (no more can I sit in the car to hear the end of a story or song), and weird dead zones.

So, now that I feel that I will eventually achieve EPA mileage 8-9 months of the year (and in the winter take my non-hybrid mileage beating) I think that this is the best car I've ever had. Of course, I'm comparing this to: a beat-up 70's VW Karmen-Ghia manual, an 80's Dodge Colt manual, a '91 Toyota Camry V6 automatic (very nice car), a '98 Toyota Corolla manual. I've also had the opportunity to drive a variety of Lexus and Mercedes, as well as a '93 Mazda 626 (whatever it was called at the time) and a 2000 Mazda MPV.

backy · January 2005

I don't know about engine wear, but personally I don't use cruise control in the city because of the need to be able to react quickly to traffic, pedestrians, people on bikes and in motorized wheelchairs (!) etc.--so I like having my foot on the gas in the city.

Quite a step up from a Dodge Colt, eh? :-)

robertsmx · January 2005

Cruising at a constant speed or being abrupt with gas (and brake) pedal is not advised during break-in period.

backy · January 2005

How long is the break-in on the HAH? It is beyond 1200 miles?

viet · January 2005

Absolutely nothing interfered with FM, AM, XM channels and CD system in my HAH. The HAH's stereo system plays fabulously with style. Really love it very much. It really soothes me off after many hours of working with hair-beard-and moustache-splitting-and-crunching work.

The HAH itself is truely a nicely integrated piece of fine art and highly sophisticated engineering. Its MPG, acceleration and the powerful HP is worth the premium over the regular Accord V6. Not to mention about the electronically/ electrically assisted steering and the VCM, etc...I constantly get about 29.9 - 30 MPG in cities while my 16 year old son gets about 18 MPG on my other new Accord V6. He must have "a young but very big, heavy and gas-sucking right foot".

viet · January 2005

Hi Backy,

Honda requires only 600 miles for the break-in with engine and 200 miles for brakes.

viet · January 2005

Hi guys and gals, the highly educated scholars in automotive/ hybrid technology,

I must shamefully admit that in my first few Honda I read and almost learned by heart all my Honda's user manuals. Now, I do not have much (stupid?) time for those manuals but I did read "fast" all my HAH's user manuals and "study" them again whenever I need it. The engine break-in is only 600 miles but I "lied" to my 18 year old son that the engine break-in is about 2,000 + miles when I gave him a brand new Accord V6 Coupe. But I am sure he probably ignored my advice. Kids learn very quickly with their friends about cars.

viet · January 2005

Hi Ankh126,

100% D'Accord. I did not care to test drive my HAH before I took it delivery. It turned out it was my flawless and shiny Xmas present. After a few rains lately in the local areas my HAH now has been covered with dirt. It looks really like Charles Bronson who was "ready in actions".

viet · February 2005

"I think that this is the best car I've ever had. Of course, I'm comparing this to: a beat-up 70's VW Karmen-Ghia manual, an 80's Dodge Colt manual, a '91 Toyota Camry V6 automatic (very nice car), a '98 Toyota Corolla manual. I've also had the opportunity to drive a variety of Lexus and Mercedes, as well as a '93 Mazda 626 (whatever it was called at the time) and a 2000 Mazda MPV".

The fact that I ignored Mercedes Benz C class and BMW 325i to buy a HAH has strongly demonstrated that the HAH must contain some unique and outstanding specifications that's very hard for me not to buy one.

robertsmx · February 2005

Break-in, as defined, is usually over in less than 1000 miles. However, from my personal experience (three cars so far), Honda drive trains tend to settle down in terms of smoothness, decisiveness and fuel economy around 7000-8000 miles.

viet · February 2005

My HAH now has only about 800+ miles but it accelerates and runs super fast as a 400 HP Corvette or a 300+ HP Mustang. Its MPG in cities is around 29.9 - 30 MPG, exactly as Honda claims it. I expect the MPG will surely meet its specified MPG or better after the engine break-in. I only need to drive at 2000 RPM or less to achieve 60+ MPH. At this level of RPM I surely can save a lot of gas. I enjoy my HAH very much. It runs so beautifully. I may consider buying another one when my son "claims" it in about 18 months after he gets accepted in a good college. Otherwise I will have to "run super marathon" again to work everyday.

I am very practical and do not need to show off my "artificial social status" by driving an Bimmer or a Mercedes Benz and spending too much on preventive maintenance. I have been very excited to keep my close eyes on the "super intelligence" of the VCM and the Auto-Stop features. It appears that it is getting more "decisive and smarter" as Robertxm mentioned when it is approaching the break-in. The audio/ Navi. work very accurately and sensitively when the weather is getting clearer and less cold.

falconone · February 2005

I'd save the money and drive the regular V6 Accord. Just as snappy with the acceleration (5 speed even better). Put the savings in the bank and have fun. Better yet.... spend the same money on the Acura TL. Almost the same price...more features... mileage difference negligible.

robertsmx · February 2005

But regular Accord V6 doesn't have the low-mid range punch that some may want to have, besides the other things that hybrid offers. People want different things in a car, hence there are several one-up trims for a model. Not everybody wants to drive DX, there comes LX there comes EX there comes EX-L there comes LXV6 there comes EXV6, and now comes hybrid.

brianu · February 2005

I have a 2004 Accord EXL 5-speed MANUAL that averages a little over 32Mpg in Houston traffic (stop & go to 75Mph cruise) with an 85 mile work round trip. My wife has a 2003 TLS that averages 25-26Mpg when I drive it to work with a heavy foot. The TLS pulled down a little over 30Mpg last week on a drive to Dallas and back, about 475 miles cruising at 75-79Mph with some around town driving mixed in. Frankly, I was very surprised that the TLS could manage 30+Mpg even though I have read of seven generation Accord V6 owners pulling down similar Mpg.

Now looking at the numbers that the HAHs are pulling down when driven with a light foot like I drive my Accord, the mileage is almost the same (Actually my EXL seems to be getting a little better mileage) and my ELX cost about 10K LESS than a HAH! The 2.4L 5-speed MANUAL Accord has plenty of power (16.1 in the ¼ mile per Car & Driver) with all the safety features of the HAH plus a sunroof.

I check my mileage at every tank using the tried and true miles driven/gallons method and keep a log book on all my cars. As much I think the HAH is a pretty cool car, if youre going to drive it for fuel economy you are going to have to own that car for a loooong time before you payback the initial investment of the technology. And if you drive it to take advantage of the extra power, well whats the point?

I actually enjoy driving my Accord more than I enjoy driving the TLS. Part of that is I still enjoy being involved with the driving and the MANUAL transmission is a pleasure to shift. The Accord is also quieter, rides better, has a better sound system and XM radio. The only thing it lacks that would make it a perfect sedan is:

1) The new direct injection 2.4 that increases fuel mileage 20%? That would give me 38Mpg average and be faster!

2) Self tinting and heated mirrors with tilt (Like the TLS)

3) Memory function for the seats, mirrors and sound system (Like the TLS)

4) Heated rear seats

Again, Im not knocking the HAH. I think Honda is testing the waters with this car. Imagine a HAH direct injection 2.4 Accord? Probably the same power of the current HAH with fuel mileage in the middle 40s! Honda has the technology and capability to pull this off in the next generation Accord. Simply amazing stuff.

Just my two cents.

azhah · February 2005

That's great for you!

I suspect that the EPA ratings will have proved to be a little low. Though my city mileage is pretty close if not 1 or 2 MPG above (29.5 overall avg), my higway mileage may be much better then predicted. Bear in mind that I still have less than 1500 miles on the car. I have seen consistent mileage in the 50 MPG range at speed on the freeway. This doesn't take into account some traffic as well as up and down slight grades, on-off ramps etc. I believe that on a long highway trip I may be able to average well above 45 MPG under normal driving conditions. I am planning a trip to Tucson in two weeks for my anniversary (20 years! wahoo!!!) I will post the mileage for both directions. I expect a little better going down then coming back. I guess time will tell.

Just for the record. I didn't purchase this car with the idea of saving money in the long run though that would be nice. I did it for two main reasons. 1) I truly loved this car from the first test-drive. 2) I wanted to support tne Hybrid industry in general. I feel that this purchase will send a small message to the auto makers that I like the direction they are going! I realise not everyone is in a position to do this, but since I am...I did...

viet · February 2005

My city MPG completely matches with AZHAH's MPG (29.5 - 29.999999). I have not driven my "monster HAH" much on highways but it always likes to "fly" on the roads as a very quiet street rocket wherever it runs. My feeling is it runs on the roads like a very light feather. All I can say is it is super fast, responsive and it best utilizes fuel to the last drop. It is Honda's frugal philosophy on gas consumption but it is very fast and achieves best performance compared to other cars in same class. That's why I love Honda and have been loyal to Honda for so many years. Immediately after I bought my HAH, Honda Inc. sent me a flyer to solicit for a purchase of a newly introduced Honda truck (Ridgeline). I wish I could become an honorable blue collar man to buy a Ridgline truck for my business. However, I still get good chances to become a real muscular man to mend my tire if my HAH gets a flat tire or a tire blow up at night.

I love my HAH for several reasons: (1) Super HP, (2) Great MPG, (3) Honda's excellent performance, durability and reliability records as I have owned about 10+ Honda in total, (4) Honda's proven applied hybrid science/ technology through Insight and Civic Hybrid, etc.

I agreed with AZHAH that the HAH's highway MPG will be great as all my Accord's highway MPG are always above the EPA's ratings. The integrated Navi. system and the audio (XM, FM, AM radios) are superb.

larsb · February 2005

Here's a pretty decent and recent review for those contemplating buying the HAH:

http://www.freep.com/cgi-bin/forms/printerfriendly.pl

russ5 · February 2005

I tried your link to free press and it did not work. Try http://www.freep.com/money/autoreviews/accord3e_20050203.htm

larsb · February 2005

OK, sorry about the last broken link, the one you posted DOES work....

xcel · February 2005

Hi All:

      I was corresponding with a new AH owner that lives not 10 minutes from me. He picked his up for $1K less then MSRP if that helps. Rosen Honda in Gurnee, Illinois. There is hope for future AH owners after all

      Good Luck

      Wayne R. Gerdes

viet · February 2005

I found out today when I carried a big jar of distilled water in the front that the passenger front seat is manually operated, no power as the driver seat. Does anybody know the reason why Honda makes it that way such as saving battery power, etc?

backy · February 2005

More like saving money, and possibly weight also.

viet · February 2005

The HAH's MPG of 29.99 - 37 plus is pretty much same as a regular Civic LX 's MPG.

viet · February 2005

Hybrid car owners' comments: observations from user experience:

1- Insight owner # about 4000

My wife, son and I all have been driving Honda Insights since 2000. We have a combined 170,000+ miles. In the beginning, wow! Silent, fast, comfortable, super handling (stop, turn, high speed (95mph)-no wind, electric ABS good in snow), trips with 60, 70, 80 MPG, one 740 mile fill up. Now we're so used to it that a Honda Accord seems like a big boat.

And we've developed a new respect for the cars because they have been very trouble free for a long time. We are beginning to understand, other than getting 60MPG, cost wise these are normal cars. Quality Hondas. We rarely calculate the gas savings although we are proud of having bought over 2,800 less gallons of gas in a time which Oil has caused so much trouble for so many people.

Hybrid technology in the Insight saves gas not by the little 6hp engine alone. It's only 11% of the 65hp total, how could it? It's the engine tuning the electric motor allows. The cylinders can be optimized for the higher gears while the electric motor takes over the instant demand. Also the cars are very light, the engines shut off/restart automatically at stops, are super aerodynamic and have long rolling tires.

Using these KNOWN technologies car companies could cut world fuel use in half, TODAY.So my real point isn't that our experience has been great, it's the more existential "what if everyone did it?"

2- Fran Kosloski, Wernersville, Pa

I have bought a 2004 civic hybrid. My current life time gas milage is 47.5 mpg for a distance of 3500 miles. Much of that is with air conditioning on. I live in a mountainous part of Eastern Pennsylvania. I have a 150 mile round trip daily commute. The highway portion I get 51 or greater mpg, When I do the last 10 miles up the hills of our community it pulls the lifetime mpg down. The electronic display indicating mpg , at least on our car is always around 1.5 mpg less than my computation I do at the gas pump dividing trip odometer by gallons pumped at station. At this stage I am quite happy with our Honda civic. Current trending seems to indicate the mpg is getting better with age.

3- Phil in Missouri

We've had our 2005 Honda Accord hybrid a short while and still operating on the first tank of gasoline. We have growing concern about the gas mileage we're seeing. The EPA ratings for this hybrid are 29 city and 37 highway, however so far we're observing about 17 to 19 mpg in city driving. Is this kind of difference to be expected during the earliest stage of the 'break-in' period? Also, the winter temperatures demand more of systems that draw power from the battery array and in turn appear to affect the extent/proportion of operation time that actually is assisted by the electric motor. Any comment from other owners or 'experts' on this concern would be appreciated. Thanks!

viet · February 2005

At 70MPH:

95 Accord EX I4 (145 HP): 3000 RPM.

02 Accord EX V6 (200 HP): 2100 - 2300 RPM.

05 Accord Hybrid (255 HP): 2000 RPM.

viet · February 2005

Also,

In 1992, my Civic 1986 1.5 liter 93 HP had to crawl up the 4,000 feet hilly highways like a poor little snail . Otherwise, at 120K miles, it ran beautifully like new. At 70 MPH, it had to spin its engine more than 3000 RPM for sure. That's why I was not interested in the Civic Hybrid of 93 HP and waited until Honda introduced the Accord hybrid.

viet · February 2005

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/job.aspx?make=Honda&model=A- - ccord%20Hybrid

http://autos.msn.com/research/userreviews/reviewlist.aspx?modelid- - =11567&src=vip

midnightcowboy · February 2005

Saturday paper Houston, Honda Accord Hybrid advertised $2,000 under MSRP ~= $28K 4 available.

WHAT HAPPENED ?

Also HCH CVT $2,000 under MSRP

backy · February 2005

What happened? Reason. As in, why pay thousands more for a hybridized Accord or Civic when it's unlikely the difference will be made up in fuel costs. Also, Texas is not California, and Texans are not hybrid-crazed as many Californians seem to be.

cablack · February 2005

WHAT HAPPENED ?

Economics 101 happened. Supply caught up with demand.

I purchased my 2005 HCH for $500 over invoice back in November for the same reason -- the fleet dealer had a few in stock and wanted to sell them.

Why hasn't this happened with the Prius? Because supply has not yet caught up with demand.

infoseekr · February 2005

Dear All who have responded to my topic:

I haven't been able to get back to this forum as often as I would've liked, but I've read all your responses on the warrantee/paint and fabric protector topic. I really appreciate the points you made and these are helping me make a much more informed decision!

warmly,

Craig

viet · February 2005

We, the buyers, did burn our hard-earned money. I'd rather pay my son's friend so he could take my son to school for a few additional months until the HAH's price went down. We made a wrong judgment that the HAH will keep its price for a while like the Prius.

gagrice · February 2005

We, the buyers, did burn our hard-earned money.

Cheer up man, at least you were first in the neighborhood. I remember spending $5 grand for a new HP laptop in 1983. It had only 256kb of ram and NO hard drive only a separate floppy. I was the first in our company to have one...

explorerx4 · February 2005

the hah seems to be a vehicle you enjoy very much. don't worry that others may or may not pay less. you seem very proud of your son, so as you know, there more important things in life than a few dollars.

viet · February 2005

I will probably have to buy another HAH in 2 years or sooner if Honda/ Acura and other auto makers do not introduce other better models that mostly meet my requirements. Honestly, I did tell my wife before I bought the HAH that I wish I could wait a little bit long so the HAH's price would be cool off a little bit.

backy · February 2005

There's another factor here, when comparing the Prius (still getting MSRP or over in some areas) and the HAH: there are no direct alternatives to the Prius. If you want a Prius, you have to buy the hybrid. There's no ICE-only version of the Prius, but there are ICE-only versions of the Accord (and Civic for that matter). The Prius is the only mid-sized, five-door hybrid for sale in the U.S. It also has higher fuel economy and a lower price than the HAH. The more substitutes there are for a product, the lower the price in general. There's just more direct substitutes for the HAH (and HCH). And those direct substitutes are available with big discounts. So it's understandable that once the buyers who wanted to be the first on the block with a HAH have their cars, prices would be discounted as they are on other Accords.

cablack · February 2005

don't worry that others may or may not pay less

I agree wholeheartedly. Enjoy the car, and enjoy being one of the early adopters of a trend that seems to be catching on: performance and fuel economy. Personally I think you made a great choice, and that fact is evidenced by the joy you are taking in the automobile itself.

Okay, that's enough good will and camaraderie for this forum. We now return you to your regularly scheduled nit-picking and sniping. ;-)

rlk · February 2005

these pyou have to wonder though...the places who seem to be advertising the HAH under MSRP...Ilinois and Texas...come on, has anyone seen any of these advertisements in say New York or California?? I have heard of no such thing but maybe some people would actually go to pick up their car in Texas or Illinois. All I know is I'm not going to dwell on the issue. Plus isn't this cost for the ones w/out navi (which have not been selling as fast as the ones with navi)??

viet · February 2005

Surely, the HAH with Navi. is hard to find. Some arrogant salesmen/ fleet managers at Honda dealerships in the Bay Area in Northern California have been asking for $3K-$4K markup over the MSRP. It is pretty much same as when the Mazda Miata was first introduced to customers years ago along with bombardments of commercials of all sorts. Ironically, it turned out that the Miata was not that great. I truly have been convinced that the HAH would not be that type.

backy · February 2005

Yes, three weeks ago I saw an ad in the LA Times for an HAH at a discount--not $2000 off however. But you are right, California (maybe New York also) is a much hotter hybrid market than is Texas, where the Suburban is the National Vehicle.

Hybrid Honda Accord

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles