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Hybrid Honda Accord

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    1 st gagrice a hybrid, never and especially not a Toyota Prius

    If I had a need for one I might surprise you. I'm taking a watch and see attitude to the whole hybrid scenario. They are intriguing though.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I have to pay better attention.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    Let's stick to the Accord hybrid, folks. There are plenty of general hybrid discussions.

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    E320 costs about a million dollars. At least it seems like it given my car budget. :o)

    Impress me like that for under $30 grand and you've got my attention. Will the Accord come in at less than that? I think it's a psychological barrier for a lot of folks.

    -juice
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Who would buy a hybrid Accord or CR-V if given the option of diesel simplicity and great mileage?
    If Accord were offered with Hybrid power as well as Diesel, my pick would be the hybrid. They would cost about the same (similarly equipped) and should deliver similar mileage. With hybrid, every measure of emissions (CO2, PM, NOx) would be lower, better NVH (yes, Honda’s diesel is considered a leader, but against its diesel counterparts) and more power.

    As far as CR-V is concerned, I think a diesel would be a better choice, unless, hybrid power can be utilized to replace the mechanical AWD system, something I hope will be done, someday.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Around here, not every station sells diesel, it can actually be hard to find. Also, at least where I live, diesel is priced like premium fuel. It's supposed to be cheaper.

    In Brazil diesel costs half what gas costs, so it's a no-brainer. That plus diesels have much, much better resale for that same reason.

    -juiced
  • ohiocarguyohiocarguy Member Posts: 28
    Each time I buy a sedan I look longingly at the mileage of the four-cylinder models, but buy the six-cylinder for the power.

    If the Hybrid Accord delivers as promised, I expect a lot of people to be interested - especially given current gas prices.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    "If Accord were offered with Hybrid power as well as Diesel, my pick would be the hybrid. They would cost about the same.. "

    I doubt the diesel Accord would cost as much as the hybrid. The LX 4-cyl is pretty well equiped (certainly has more doodads than I need) and if the diesel was about $1,500 more (actully with the Passat the diesel is just a couple hundred dollars more) and had maybe $500 worth of additional options. It would still come in at under $22,000 if people paid full list price.

    The Hybrid Accord on the other hand is supposed to be a couple thousand more than the EX-V6, which pushes it up to $29,000. $7,000 difference is a lot in the Accords price class. Even if the diesel were an EX the diff would still be around $5,000.

    Now if the premium for a diesel was less than $2,000 (which it probably would be) then the difference is even greater.

    Also the 30/38 mpg of the Accord hybrid is nowhere near what the Accord diesel would get.

    Now if there were a 4-cylinder hybrid Accord that was about the same price as the diesel, got about the same mileage, and was faster than the standard 4-cyl (which has more pep than I need as is) then I would definately put it on my list of cars to consider.
  • zitchzitch Member Posts: 55
    "Off topic, but I used to have a 1980 Scirocco (1950 lbs). I advanced the timing a little bit, and I got mid 40's on the highway all the time. My best was 47.5 mpg. The car was a blast to drive too. It has always amazed me that with 25 years of progress there are still not that many cars on the road that can beat that. "

    Still off topic, but what were the emission requirements for vehicles in 1980? Were there any at all? Emission control components suck power out of the engine, making it less efficient. Wouldn't you say that it's an amazing feat that many cars in the civic/corolla size can get in the mid 40s MPG and still output less pollution than the average house (from what I hear)? Or that my Accord (I4 Auto ~3000 unloaded) hit 38.5 MPG on the highway with 4 people (and luggage for a week-long trip) comfortably riding with an engine that goes 0-60 in 10 seconds or less and still probably emitting much less pollution than your 1980 Scirocco?

    I'm curious what newer cars could do MPG-wise without the catalytic converters and other emissions controlling hardware. That might give you a better sense of what improvements have actually occurred in the past 25 or so years... :)
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    In your case, Accord EXV6 is $6K too expensive because you don’t need the power and performance of a V6, and the features that it is equipped with. And if that is the case, the HAH in its “to arrive” form doesn’t fit your bill since it builds upon EXV6 as a premium model rather than upon LX as a bottom-line/mainstream model. The hybrid premium appears to be about $2K, about the price one would pay to add leather trim to Passat TDI.

    Comparably loaded, Passat TDI and Accord Hybrid are going to be darn close at the top end. So, why would it be any different at the low end?

    Also the 30/38 mpg of the Accord hybrid is nowhere near what the Accord diesel would get.

    Actually, Accord Diesel would get a very similar rating. I’ve done the math in this thread a while ago. The question is, would Accord Diesel have comparable Performance, NVH and emissions ratings as the Accord Hybrid?

    Four cylinder Hybrid Accord may happen, and perhaps sooner than arrival of diesel engine itself.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I doubt the diesel could keep up with the V6/hybrid, performance would not be comparable.

    Benz' E class diesel is nice, 0-60 in 7.1, something like that, but Honda's diesel won't come close to that.

    The Accord V6 automatic can already match that Benz, or beat it slightly, so add the battery propulsion and it's easily faster than the Benz diesel for half the price.

    -juice
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I'm estimating 0-60 for the HAH in 6.5s or less. Actually, Accord V6 has done that couple of times (with automatic transmission).

    And then, if HAH holds its promise, cruising mileage at 38 mpg won't sound bad, and neither would getting about 30 mpg in city. Thats something I get in my 2000 Civic whose "performance" aspect is a whole another story (forget about the NVH et al).
  • infoseekrinfoseekr Member Posts: 6
    Hi Folks:

    This is my first post here. I am considering ordering the '05 Accord Hybrid. Some dealerships here in San Diego are taking orders on a waiting list with a refundable $500 deposit. I have never pre-ordered a car before like this. Are there any factors you would recommend I consider in doing this?

    One of the things I am mulling over is wondering which options I want. I am assuming that I will need to have all of these "finalized" at the time I order since there won't necessarily be any more Accord Hybrids available for some time if I decide I don't want a particular option that came with the particular Hybrid I ordered. But "finalizing" this is made more difficult bc I've been told the new catelog for optional features for the Hybrid Accord isn't yet available. Any suggestions?

    thanks,
    Craig
  • infoseekrinfoseekr Member Posts: 6
    Hi folks:

    I am considering placing a refundable deposit for the new Accord Hybrid. I have many, many cassettes I've accumulated over years and I would like to have a cassette player installed in my new car.In the '04 Accord (all gas engine), there is a large space for storage right under the radio. I am hoping that this same space might be available on the '05 Hybrid Accord for installing a cassette player. But, I am not sure whether to request that this be installed at the Honda factory before shipping or to go to a car stereo dealer after delivery to have this installed?

    If it is possible for the Honda factory to install the cassette player prior to delivery and I decide for some reason not to purchase the Accord Hybrid after seeing it in person, I am concerned I will be liable for the cassete player cost. However, bc I have never had a car stereo dealer add a component like this, I am also concerned that the car stereo dealer might not install the cassette player in a way that integrates well into the rest of the car stereo system or that comprimises the quality in some way.

    Any recommendations on whether to request the Honda factory to install the cassette player or whether to have a car stereo dealer do this? Have people had any negative things happen by having a car stereo dealer install a cassette player or am I needlessly worrying about this?

    thanks for any tips!
    Craig
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Unless the cassette unit is a factory option, the factory will not install it for you. Your dealer can tell you if that is the case and if they offer a dealer-installed cassette unit, or a radio upgrade with an integrated cassette. If you order the car with a factory cassette unit and don't take delivery, they can't make you pay for it since it came that way from the factory and you made a refundable deposit.
  • rcc8179rcc8179 Member Posts: 131
    Honda has a couple add-ons to the radios in the 2003+ Accords. One is an mp3 player and another is a cassette player. These are installed below the stereo/climate control system in the space where the large covered bin is located. They mount with a smaller pocket than the original bin. They play through the factory stereo (all of which include a CD player). The accessories are a couple hundred dollars and can be installed yourself or by the dealer. You can buy them at the dealer's parts department or through www.handaaccessories.com (link above) or other online parts sites.
  • rockycow33rockycow33 Member Posts: 76
    my guess is that the Hybrid accord may only have one option, the navigation system. Your options will probably be merely accessories such as floor mats, mud guards etc which are normally much cheaper via the net. Don't forget to pick your color.
    enjoy
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Even floor mats are standard in Accords (at least were, as of MY2000 in all $20K-plus Accords). NAV is probably going to be the only option.

    Honda has already released a few details regarding features of the Accord Hybrid. A few of those...
    - Active Noise Control (ANC) System (similar to upper trims of Odyssey and RL)
    - Trunk lid spoiler
    - P215/60R16 tire size
    - VCM
    - "Hybrid Powered" Dual Zone Climate Control
    - Instantaneous and Lifetime Fuel Economy Meter
    - Illuminated steering wheel mounted controls
  • jonnycat26jonnycat26 Member Posts: 101
    - "Hybrid Powered" Dual Zone Climate Control
    Does that mean that the AC will be powered via the hybrid battery? If so, it's a really nice alternative to the Prius now. :)
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    Well, there will probably be a standard electronic display associated with the Hybrid readouts. I suspect this will preclude one from using the lower mounting, since it will probably be a double DIN installation, using both upper and lower spaces. Your dealer would know...
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Yep. Honda PR suggests a "new hybrid dual zone climate control", so there has to be something different about it compared to other trims of Accords.
  • nowakj66nowakj66 Member Posts: 709
    Does anyone know if the transmission in the HAH will be CVT, 5 speed auto or manual?
  • rockycow33rockycow33 Member Posts: 76
    The temple of VTEC does not list any tranny change for the HAH so I would assume it will be only available with 5 speed auto.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Shame, for maximized gas economy you would think manual would be optional.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Yep.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That it'll be possible for the dealer to install a Honda cassette player in the Accord Hybrid.

    Cassettes are going the way of the 8 track so you might want to start thinking about converting these to CD's. It won't be long before they will be obsolete.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You can get an FM modulator nowadays that sell for about $40. In fact they plug in to a headphone jack, so a simple walkman with a cassette player would work with that.

    -juice
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "You can get an FM modulator nowadays that sell for about $40. In fact they plug in to a headphone jack, so a simple walkman with a cassette player would work with that."

    Yes, those would work. I was speaking of factory installation...
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Shame, for maximized gas economy you would think manual would be optional. "

    Honda has traditionally used a CVT with IMA. I suspect that there is some engineering reason that manual tranmissions won't be available with the V6. It is possible that the IMA won't handle the stress of a driver shifting (more predictable stresses when the car CPU selects the shift points). The insight is available with manual, but it has a 3 cylinder engine.

    I haven't seen any posted information on the Web to confirm this, other than notes that many CVTs won't handle a lot of torque.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    >Honda has traditionally used a CVT with IMA.

    Let's see the Insight and the HCH are the only two cars that offer IMA and both can be ordered with a 5-speed manuaul or a CVT. Your statement is misleading and not accurate.

    > I suspect that there is some engineering reason that manual tranmissions won't be available with the V6.

    This statement is just plain FUD (Fear Uncertainty, Doubt). key words- I suspect

     >It is possible that the IMA won't handle the >stress of a driver shifting (more predictable >stresses when the car CPU selects the shift >points). Another wives tale from the auto-trans world....

    If the CVT can't handle the torque why in the world would they put a CVT in the HAH ? CVT is not offered on any current Accords, 4 or 6 cylinder and the only Civic to offer CVT is the HCH. The CVT torque rumor was started by the Prius^2 guy who always wants the facts and the sources and yet concerning CVT reliability he provide none,i.e. vague, becuase there are no substantial facts or data concerning Honda CVT torque or reliability problems.

    Most likely the HAH transmission will be the current 5-speed automatic. However, there is absolutely no reason why the current 6-speed manual used in the Accord Coupe couldn't be used. I personally hope the do offer a 6-speed manual, because I for one would buy a HAH instead of the S2000 I am currently planning to get.

    YMMV,

    Mid Cow

    P.S.- Hope everyone survived Ivan okay!
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Let's see the Insight and the HCH are the only two cars that offer IMA and both can be ordered with a 5-speed manuaul or a CVT. Your statement is misleading and not accurate."

    Yup, I was just going to correct my statement for the HCH when I saw your post. I hadn't realized it had the manual transmission option. My mistake there.

    "If the CVT can't handle the torque why in the world would they put a CVT in the HAH ? CVT is not offered on any current Accords, 4 or 6 cylinder and the only Civic to offer CVT is the HCH."

    Hmmm, I didn't say that it wouldn't be put on the HAH; just that the CPU in the car could keep from over stressing the CVT. Please note that I clearly said that I had not read hard facts on this stuff, just suggestions from various web sources.

    "The CVT torque rumor was started by the Prius^2 guy who always wants the facts and the sources and yet concerning CVT reliability he provide none,i.e. vague, becuase there are no substantial facts or data concerning Honda CVT torque or reliability problems."

    It is not a rumor. The Saturn Vue has had a lot of problems with it, and it has been published that the Vue V6 was not offered with CVT because the CVT would not handle the torque of the larger engine. In support of your argument, the Nissan Murano does have a CVT, so I suppose it is possible to mate larger engines with a good CVT design. I don't know what the specs are on the Honda CVT.

    " Most likely the HAH transmission will be the current 5-speed automatic. However, there is absolutely no reason why the current 6-speed manual used in the Accord Coupe couldn't be used. I personally hope the do offer a 6-speed manual, because I for one would buy a HAH instead of the S2000 I am currently planning to get"

    Could you please provide the source of this information that the transmission will most likely be the current 5 speed? I haven't seen any such releases by Honda yet.

    RE: >Honda has traditionally used a CVT with IMA.

    I stand by this statement, except that I probably should have said "used a CVT as the automatic transmission with IMA." For one thing, the engine RPMs can be adjusted for better RPMs by modifying the CVT settings; so CVT makes sense for a hybrid. Of course, it depends upon if the HCH is primarily for economy or more torque...
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Honda has not revealed any information on transmission yet. It could be a choice of 5-speed automatic or 6-speed manual, or only the auto. It could also be a new 6-speed automatic that Honda has (supposedly) been fiddling with for 2-3 years (Antonov).

    As far as CVT goes, Honda hasn't revealed one that is designed the handle the kind of power HAH will have. The most powerful engine that Honda is offering CVT with is the 2.4-liter I-4 (160 HP) in Japanese market Odyssey. In North America, the CVT application has been limited to Civic HX (since 1997), Civic Hybrid and Insight.

    With IMA, Honda could use any kind of transmission (and any of its existing engines for that matter).
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Engine: 3.0-liter V6 SOHC i-VTEC, IMA; 255 HP/232 lb.-ft; LEVII-ULEV; Regular Unleaded
    Transmission: New 5-speed automatic with electric oil pump
    Fuel Economy: 30/37 mpg

    Other excerpts/claims:
    - Acceleration performance (0-60/50-70) improves by 0.5s over regular Accord V6
    - IMA motor output is up by 26% during startup (compared to HCH) and torque output is more than double (100 lb.-ft from 46 lb.-ft).
    - Battery output density is up by 45% and battery assist power is up by 20% (compared to HCH).
    - Regenerative braking efficiency improves by 11% (compared to HCH).
    - "Hybrid" air conditioning compressor runs on both the gasoline engine and the IMA battery and provides for good air conditioning performance even when the engine is in Idle Stop mode.
    - VCM deactivates one bank during cruising at steady speeds (intake and exhaust valves are closed)
    - Under light acceleration from a cruising state, IMA assists the gasoline engine (in 3-cylinder mode)
    - During deceleration, the gasoline engine is shut off under 10 mph
    - When brake pedal is released, the IMA motor instantaneously restarts the gasoline engine.
    - In city mode fuel economy rating, the improvement is from IMA (60%), VCM (15%) and Idle Stop (25%). In highway mode rating, the improvement is from IMA (38%), VCM (57%) and improved aerodynamics (5%).

    Couple of pictures…

    Power Train
    Displays

    Launch Date: Dec 3
  • accordguy1accordguy1 Member Posts: 13
    Hello everyone...
    I currently have a '97 accord se sedan.
    I love it's peppy ride but I'm planning to get a new accord within a couple of years.
    Here's my dilema:
    4 cylinder accord has good mileage but sluggish with a heavy load
    6 cylinder accord has bad mileage and the low torque seems kinda sluggish too
    the new hybrid accord seems the like the "perfect" car with power and mileage but I'm concerned about the "new" technology:
    1) I live up in Boston and I've heard that the batteries don't work as well in the cold.
    2) Any premium $ for the hybrid I'd make up over the life since I'd keep it for 150-200K miles but
    I've heard that the batteries would be expensive to replace?
    There seems to be alot of new technology that could go wrong for someone who wants to keep the car for the long run...Any thoughts? Thanks.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    quote-"- "Hybrid" air conditioning compressor runs on both the gasoline engine and the IMA battery and provides for good air conditioning performance even when the engine is in Idle Stop mode.-end quote"

    This part intrigues me a little, because even if the compressor still runs in electric mode, you STILL must use GAS to recharge the IMA battery - so in the long run you gain what if anything?

    I know the IMA is charged during regen braking too, but that's a small percentage of overall charge compared to what comes from gas charging, is it not?

    I would think that if IMA-powered compressor for A/C was such a fantastic idea, it would have been used in previous Hybrids.....??

    Anyone know more about that sort of thing and can 'Splain it better?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Probably improvements in battery technology and electric motor efficiencies help now, more than they did with the other two generations.
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    "I would think that if IMA-powered compressor for A/C was such a fantastic idea, it would have been used in previous Hybrids.....??"

    As posted, HAH city mpg improvement by IMA is 60%. So, regen braking energy is more than you think.

    You can think of the battery as an overflow bucket. Most of the energy that were captured are for beneficial.

    HAH hybrid A/C uses both gas engine and HV battery, probably switches with a clutch. Prius uses pure electric A/C.

    Dennis
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    "IMA motor output is up by 26% during startup (compared to HCH) and torque output is more than double (100 lb.-ft from 46 lb.-ft)."

    Interesting direction the third generation of IMA is going. Gas ICE power increases by 158%(compared to HCH) and electric motor power increases by 20% (10kw vs 12kw). BTW, Prius' primary electric motor(50kW) is 317% more powerful than the new HAH's 12kW.

    "Battery output density is up by 45% and battery assist power is up by 20% (compared to HCH)."

    I assume that Honda is now finally using Primastic NiMH batteries as in Prius.

    "Regenerative braking efficiency improves by 11% (compared to HCH)."

    Electric motor is 20% more powerful. How come only 11% better regen braking? Maybe the battery isn't big enough to capture all capable energy(12kW)?

    "VCM deactivates one bank during cruising at steady speeds (intake and exhaust valves are closed)"

    Does it alternate between the two banks when it shutdown? Or does it always shutdown the first bank? It is important because one bank will wear out faster than the other.

    "In city mode fuel economy rating, the improvement is from IMA (60%), VCM (15%) and Idle Stop (25%)."

    In terms of city mpg gained:
    IMA - 5.40 mpg
    VCM - 1.35 mpg
    Idle Stop - 2.25 mpg

    "In highway mode rating, the improvement is from IMA (38%), VCM (57%) and improved aerodynamics (5%)"

    In terms of highway mpg gained:
    IMA - 2.66 mpg
    VCM - 3.99 mpg
    Aerodynamics - 0.35 mpg

    Dennis
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    The hybrid air conditioning unit uses two air compressors, one connected to the gasoline engine and one connected to an electric motor. When full cooling is needed, as when a car is first started on a hot summer day, the HVAC control unit relies on both to create maximum cooling power. Under normal conditions, cooling is provided by either the belt-driven compressor attached to the 3.0-liter V-6 or the electric magnet driven compressor powered by the IMA battery. This allows the air conditioning system to work at virtually all times, even when the car is at idle-stop.

    So, the A/C will have half power when the ICE shuts off.

    Dennis
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    CARB Emissions Ratings: LEVII-ULEV
    EPA Emissions Rating: Tier 2, Bin 5

    http://hondanews.com/CatID2128?mid=2004091736411&mime=asc

    Clearly, this hybrid did not address the emission issue since there is no improvement over Accord EX-V6's emission.

    Dennis
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    Accord EX-V6 Auto: 3,384 lbs
    Accord Hybrid Auto: 3,501 lbs

    HAH is only 117 lbs over Accord EX-V6. Interesting.

    Dennis
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi Usbseawolf2000:

    2003 Honda Accord V6 w/ Auto: 0 - 60 in 7.0 seconds per C&D Oct. 02. It was also rated at 21/30 City/Highway according to the EPA and 34 on the Highway according to CR.

    2005 Honda Accord Hybrid: 0 - 60 in 6.5 seconds w/ 30/37 City/Highway according to the EPA. Who knows what CR will receive?

    ___Now let us wait and see if the price is ridiculous or not?

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    That's pretty impressive for a mild hybrid... but it raises a question: How is the electricity generated?

    Since the full hybrid system in Prius uses a constant-recharge strategy, it is no big deal. Having two electric motors and a power-split device means there is always an ample reserve of electricity available.

    IMA only has one electric motor, and it is directly linked to the engine. So the recharging strategy has always been either passive or aggressive. That has meant on rare occasions passive wasn't enough and owners would temporarily lose the electric assist, since aggressive was needed (which hurts MPG, so owners try their best to avoid it).

    If the A/C will be tapping into the battery-pack pack now, those occasions will become far more frequent.

    Is there any information that proves that isn't the case. Could Honda have found a way to recharge at a moderate rate instead? And what about the thermal concerns for keeping the battery-pack cool, especially when it's hot and the A/C is needed? Or will it be that the gasoline engine won't actually be able to remain off for too long?

    JOHN
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I cannot concieve of a reason to buy a hybrid Accord over the diesel Accord. The diesel Accord easily gets 50 mpg. The difference in emissions is a lot less than many would have you believe when using ULSD. ECD-1 is available in CA with a little effort. The diesel Accord has to be more cost effective with a 35% increase in mileage over the Hybrid. All we have to do is demand that Honda give the US the option. If we follow like sheep and jump on whatever they offer we will get just that. If the people demand better mileage (>50mpg) Honda or one of the other diesel auto manufacturers will offer them. It can be done without the extra baggage required for hybrids. Plus the diesel Accord can run on renewable Biodiesel which the current and projected hybrid cars cannot do.

    http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=234399
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > which the current and projected hybrid cars cannot do.

    Don't be vague.

    There have been several diesel-hybrid prototypes already.

    JOHN
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    There have been several diesel-hybrid prototypes already.

    Are any available on the World market? You are correct that a diesel hybrid would be an option to use renewable fuel. That still does not account for the added mechanics and technology required to keep a hybrid moving. I cannot believe that one or two electric motors and an ICE are as trouble free as a simple ICE. I may change my mind as time goes on. We in San Diego are the first to get a hybrid SUV. So not everyone here is as much of a skeptic as I am.
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    "If the A/C will be tapping into the battery-pack pack now, those occasions will become far more frequent.
    Is there any information that proves that isn't the case. Could Honda have found a way to recharge at a moderate rate instead?

    Yes, there is. "Occasionally, the idle stop feature is disabled when driving on a hot day and full air-conditioning power is needed by the hybrid air conditioning system." Above information tell us that there are occasions when HV battery powered A/C isn't enough and ICE has to kick in. We can deduce that if the HV battery does not have enough charge, the ICE will also need to kick in. The design sounded good at first but when analyzed further, the fuel penalty for the worst case is very high.

    When HAH reaches a cruising speed, IMA can recharge battery while VCM runs on 3 cylinders. IMA will also recharge during braking.

    "And what about the thermal concerns for keeping the battery-pack cool, especially when it's hot and the A/C is needed?"

    I'll just quote you the info. "The motor produces 10 percent more horsepower assist (12 kW total) than the Civic Hybrid and 26 percent more supplemental torque (100.4 lb.-ft. total). During regenerative braking when the motor acts as a generator for the IMA's battery pack, the generator also produces 12% percent more kW of power (14 kW total), and in both cases, the motor is more efficient, transferring 97.5 percent (vs. 94.6% in Civic Hybrid) of the available energy in assist mode, and converting 95.2 percent (vs. 93.6%) of renewable kinetic energy into electrical energy in charge mode. In addition, the Accord Hybrid's Nickel Metal-Hydride battery pack and integrated cooling system are more compact, yet more efficient than that in a Civic Hybrid Sedan."

    http://hondanews.com/CatID2128?mid=2004091737214&mime=asc

    "Or will it be that the gasoline engine won't actually be able to remain off for too long?"

    It seems to be the case since the battery capacity is the same as in Civic Hybrid. 144V 6.0Amp equal to 0.9kW. Even Prius' battery is about 50% larger in capacity. Maybe Prius was too far ahead of it's time?

    I am disappointed in the 3rd gen of IMA simply because this hybrid design gets milder and milder. ICE is 15 times more powerful than electric drivetrain! 2nd gen HCH IMA's ICE was 7 times more powerful than it's electric drivetrain.

    In order to gain fuel efficiency, a hybrid design need a more powerful electric drivetrain. The longer a hybrid can stay in electricity, the more gasoline(fuel/oil) it can save. The benchmark was set by the Prius. It had 76hp ICE with 67hp primary electric motor.

    Dennis
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    "When the driver minimizes accelerator input at cruising speed, a number of fuel saving operations begin. First, the Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) system can deactivate the engine's rear bank of three cylinders to effectively cut fuel consumption in half.

    As the vehicle begins to slow and the driver applies the brakes, more electricity is created through regenerative braking and the VCM system cuts fuel to the active front bank of three cylinders to further conserve fuel.

    This means that the front bank will wear out more than the rear bank.

    Dennis
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    We in San Diego are the first to get a hybrid SUV."

    Here is an interesting EPA fuel efficiency comparison between a mild and full hybrid.

    Honda Accord Hybrid city/high: 30/37 mpg

    Ford Escape Hybrid city/high: 36/31 mpg
    (EPA number confirmed)
    http://motortrend.com/features/news/raw_112_news040917fordhybrid/

    They both average 33.5 mpg. Since when an SUV achieves the same mpg as honda's family sedan? Full hybrid rocks. Wait until Highlander hybrid and RX400H come out; they will be much better :-D

    Dennis

    P.S: I dont' think I should start HAH vs. FEH board because they are not even in the same class.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    diesel Accord can run on renewable Biodiesel which the current and projected hybrid cars cannot do.
    I couldn't care less about renewable fuel for now. If it happens, we shall see. Let us live in the present and think conservation without too much compromise. Diesel, stinks.
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