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First Oil Change
I heard that with a new car it is good to change the oil after just 500-1000 miles because breaking the car in leaves more residue in the oil than normal operation. Is this true? Or is the normal interval between oil changes apply from driving it off the lot.
Also, Toyota told me that their oil filters had something special that went with their cars, so do they have to be used or will any brand work just as good?
Also, Toyota told me that their oil filters had something special that went with their cars, so do they have to be used or will any brand work just as good?
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increasingly, manufacturers are recommending AGAINST any special short-term oil changes or magic oil formulas, generally saying this prevents a complete break-in program. in any event, to insure you can't be punted around on warranty in case of an issue near the end of the warranty period, change it exactly when your manual says to.
grizzled old farts who have heard enough stories and replaced enough engines laugh until they fall down and wheeze every time somebody repeats this information. they tell you exactly what kind of metal shavings, chips, and foundry sand come out of the strained oil and out of the cut filter on the first oil change, be it at 500 miles or 5000. as their eyebrows arch and their hands cup and swoop, your blood runs cold.
the truth is in between. there will be extra crud the first few oil changes. the finest particles of this slop do circulate with the oil and contribute to scuffing the piston walls slightly. this is said to be a good thing with the tighter tolerances engines are built to, and provide a ring/cylinder surface that doesn't cake with burned scuzz and cause oil leakage as the engine wears. the car makers say they take this into account... aka, you are the final machinist of the engine, and only if you follow their break-in plan can they honor the engine warranty.
moral: it's evil, and they like it. I couldn't drive my new cars that long on the first change. on a rebuilt slant-6 in my used then re-engined 64 dodge, I got 100,000 before selling it to my sister, who got another 50,000 before the steering got scary and she sold it. never a drop of oil burned, and I changed oil/filter at 500,1000,2000, and thenceforth at 2500 miles. I got 145,000 before trading my 76 buick that was changed at 500... got 138,000 before trading my 90 ranger that was changed at 1000... and my 00 exploder with only 49,000 miles is still a babe in swaddling clothes, too soon to tell, but I don't use a drop of oil between 3000-mile oil changes. those are the only 4 vehicles I've had in which I had a new-tolerances engine to look at from the get-go.
play safe, do it by the book.
as for oil filters... there is a magic ingredient in the Toyota filters that makes them cost twice an equal replacement. it's the Toyota logo. Motorcraft filters have the same magic ingredient that Wix or Baldwin filters don't. I generally stay with the car maker's filters since I've been buying new, and when I don't, go with top replacements like the ones mentioned. buck-fifty oil filters don't get near my wheels. I don't even park on the same side of the mall as the shelf of those things at Questionable Auto Parts.
Really, other then a Fram most filters will work fine and really, in todays engines, with the oil doing all of the work, a filter is more for catastrophic failure. My own testing shows that it makes no differnece in a used oil analsyis if I change the filter at 6000 miles or 12,000 miles. Cut a few open, nothing really there either
there ARE differences in the refinery stocks. some have already cut over to newer equipment that cuts sulfur in the gas to essentially none, some haven't yet. if you have a recent car that has a permeable-ceramic catalytic, sulfur can build up in them under light driving, and release in a hot stinky cloud of hydrogen sulfide if you floor it, tow, start driving uphill, or otherwise load the engine more or get the cat hot. there are a lot of yowls about that across the edmunds boards. the carmakers all say use the lowest sulfur gas you can get.
but who has it is something a little hard to tell. if Spilco is advertising in your area that "our gas already meets the 2005 EPA clean-air requirements... because Spilco thinks this is a special place," then they have a refinery feeding them that is cleaned up. if you live near it, have a cup or two in the nearest cafe, watch out the window, and see whose trucks are filling up at that refinery. you now have your shopping list. It may only be good on, say, the East End of your city, because the far west suburbs may be getting their fuel from the pipeline terminal. but that's something you have to find out locally. I don't think any state websites are posting that data, certainly Minnesota isn't, and a few other I've Googled aren't.
since all gas sold in the US must meet a minimum Federal standard for fuel detergency in every grade, there should be no issues leading to clogged injectors. if there are a couple cut-rate joints that get their fuel from a recycler (spilled stuff, old crap from closed stations, etc. is rerun through a refining process to theoretically get back to standards), I personally would not buy there.
oil is another matter, and there are several threads you can search on that have thousands and thousands of posts in which folks have been flaming each other over the relative merits of every known and unknown brand of oil. I'm sticking with the major marketers, getting the correct API code for my engine, and living the good life. so far, the dealer has done mine, and I think they're using QS 5w-20 that meets ford standards, and the OEM motorcraft filters.
if you want extraterrestial synthetic oil and gold-plated filters delivered by unicorns from the black forest artisans of legend, way cool. naturally, if I've saved you Big Money, please send it to me at ( )...... LOLOL.
and will probably continue to do so until I buy a hybrid vehicle !
In my opinion, I believe in doing the FIRST oil change at about 1k miles.
That's what I did on my 2003 Solara SLEv6 and I don't regret it.
Although the engine must've gone thru some testing/running after manufacture,
it cannot match up to the wear that is imposed during 1,000 miles of travel
IN the vehicle. So I have to believe that there are going to be engine
particles that fall off very rapidly during those first few hundred miles (1k)
and personally...I want them out of circulation !
I have never heard about any special chemicals being added to oil when coming
from the factory, so I cannot comment on that. If there WERE, wouldn't more of
us have heard about it ? The dealer and manual never mentions anything about that.
I don't think so. Unlike motor oils, transmission fluid usually suffers first from oxidation more than anything else. It's the byproduct of friction and heat. ATF is exposed to shearing forces but not as much as motor oil and they usually occur more in cold temperature operation.
Heat, moisture and dirt affect ATF. If you haven't towed excessive weight for long distances in hot weather, or in lots of stop-and-go driving, the ATF has likely not been heat stressed. If the fluid is bright red in color (although color is not necessarily an accurate indication), you're fine.
I would recommend sticking with the owners manual recommendations.
Best regards,
Dusty
The owners manual recommendations would be to have the initial ATF change at 30,000 miles. For breakin of a new car, do you think changing the ATF at an earlier schedule (such as at 10,000) will extend the Transmission life -- similar to changing the Engine Oil initially at 1000 miles could extend the Engine life?
Best regards,
Dusty
Does Toyota ATF ever have to be changed?
it may be right, it may be wrong, but I don't buy the argument. I'd be thinking anywhere from 60K to 100K filter/fluid change regardless if it was my car.
Presently, we have an'01 Solara and we are changing ATF at 45000-50000 miles. The type of driving, environmental conditions, and any towing have a direct bearing on ATF deterioration and on the engine oil break down.
For me, I have gone 50,000 miles in cars with automatics dating back to 1965. I drive in the country and we don't have alot of stop and go traffic. I have rolled up over 100,000 miles on the '63 Chevy II, '65 Chevy Impala, and a '71 340 Duster Never had any problems with transmissions. And I drove that 396 Impala and the 340 pretty hard.
BN
Now that is open to interpretation.
But personally, I have always gone on the premise that it should be changed at least every 50,000 miles or 2 years, unless otherwise specified.
ray h,
I am also one who likes to get the casting sand and the metal flash out of the crankcase as soon as the rings are seated - in my case at about 500-600 miles.
I have never seen casting sand or flashing in the crank of a new engine. After the extensive flushing, cleaning and machine work, I can't see how it could survive, but I may be wrong.
Cooling systems, now that is a different story.
As far as filters, I only buy Wix or Wix made brands.
My rebuilds receive 30 wt or 5w30 (used to install 10w40, but with the newer engines, they seem to react better to 5w30). At 3,000 miles, the oil can be changed to whatever is specified. On early year v-8s, I only use 30wt for breakin oil and they go 500-1,00 miles and change out, unless moly rings are installed, then I recommend 3,000 miles on the v-8s.
25 years of doing this and no problems related to oils.
first time, my car has 50 miles on it. Service book says 3700 miles (free oil change),manual says it is only 1000 breaking period.
I called Toyota service department and service gay said I should change at 1000 miles
Thanks all.
So what is the question?
Change it at 3700 miles.
Don't let them brow beat you into changing the oil any different than what is recommended.
As Alcan posted in another thread, the manufacturer has engineers that spec out these things and they spend alot of money on owner's manuals to protect their interest. If you follow the specifications in the owner's manual, then there is nothing the dealer can do about it, unless they want to say that the manufacturer is wrong? I don't think they want to get into that battle.
I missed something. I have a 2004 SE 4 Cyl Camry that I bought in June, and the manual said change oil at 5000, with no initial change needed.
Clearly, you are quoting a different source?
Help ?
-hank2
As a special proviso, if you buy into the VW family of vehicles, you may have to observe some very special oil requirements... It's murky over there.
Some dealers indicate the car has “break-in” oil installed at the factory. Those dealers recommend a first oil change at 7,500 miles. The “break in” oil is reported by those dealers to have different additives than common replacement oil. The different additives in the “break in” oil are reported to be beneficial to the new engine. However, I could not find any reference in the vehicle user manual that came with the car about “break-in” oil installed at the factory. The user manual only makes recommendations regarding ongoing oil change frequency based on severe or normal driving conditions.
At what mileage should I make the initial oil change in my new car? I would prefer a response from a qualified Honda service technician, if possible. Thank you.
Thanks
As long as you keep receipts AND a detailed log, you shouldn't run into problems if you need to make an engine warranty claim.
At least that was my experience with my '97 Camry 4-cylinder when it started to emit blue smoke on a cold startup. I presented my records and was able to get the engine valve stem seals replaced at no charge, at 57K miles, just before the 60K powertrain warranty was set to expire. There were no arguments from the dealer.
I didn't have the dreaded sludge either.
Let's answer the questions and help solve problems.
If you don't want to remove the splash pan, you'll need one of those cap-type oil filter wrenches, plus an extension to reach it. Lots of oil comes out when you loosen it, even though it sits upright.
Before you install the new filter, fill it up with fresh oil.
I really like Toyota's smart designs - very easy to do maintenance, unlike most other car manufacturers, who put oil filters, etc. in hard to reach spots.
And I do fill the new oil filter before installing it -- very handy since the oil filter goes in upright.
I know what you mean about hard to reach filters - on my '98 Nissan Frontier, it's located very high up, but inaccessible from under the hood. So I have to remove a splash shield first, and then reach WAY up from below to get to it. Luckily, with rubber gloves, I can remove the filter without having to manuever a wrench into the cramped space.
Regardless, no worries because the owner's manual is far more trustworthy than any dealer (IMO). Just thought it was interesting.
It filters BS and is given away for free by edmunds.com ;-)
Krzys
http://www.swri.edu/default.htm
They certify emissions testing for all makes of new engines and retro-fit devises to meet EPA requirements as well as extensive testing of all sorts including different brands of oil.
When I asked the question about the "First Oil Change" they told me that between 1,500 and <2,500 miles would be advised. And the next two oil changes at 3,000 mile intervals. After that, what ever the owners manual recommends or not to exceed 5,000 miles (in warm climates, the oil breaks down too much to go 7,500 miles).
We talked some about oils and they wouldn't really say but later it was stated "Chevron, Valvolin or a top grade synthetic would be my choice".
Oil filters, any major brand.
Air filters, Fram or Purolator usually meets or exceeds factory specifications.
Hope this helps.
Thanks
My daughter had an early 90's Prizm which was burning a little oil. She thought it might be OK to add a quart every time she filled up without checking the dipstick. She built up so much pressure that she knocked a spark plug out. Car still ran OK but had LOTS of blow by after that.