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Toyota Tundra VS Ford F-150
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Comments
Does Ford selling more trucks mean that they are better? No, of course not, although some think so. Does Toyota's being more expensive mean that it is better quality? No, of course not, although some think so. It all comes down to what is perceived to be the best all-around package by the person with the money.
Ford's F-150 outselling every vehicle is an indication that more people felt that the F-150 was the best possible investment for their money. Whether that decision was researched or not is not important.
Should we give the Japanese kids the higher standard of living in the world economy? No!
Safety is another factor to consider. Heavier and stronger is better. I would rather be in a collision in an F150 than a Tundra. Don't forget, the crash ratings are only valid for comparing vehicles within 500 lbs of each other. (Not that Toyotas have 5 star ratings, anyway) Think of a head on collision involving a 3000 lb vehicle and a 4000 lb vehicle. Which vehicle will experience more negative acceleration? Give me mass any day. Heavier is also safer for towing, all things being equal.
The F-series are made in Canada and USA. The Chevy and Dodge are split with Mexico.
By the way, Which Ford were you comparing the Tundra with that you found more expensive? The only way that was possible is if the Ford had more features and a bigger engine. Check any price list around and compare like-models and you will find the Toy always more expensive. The Ford has been the best buy for any full-size.
Dead space due to form over function? Well that is quite unfounded and subjective.
Pulls more lateral g's on a skid pad? Which Salesman told you that gibberish?
Quieter because of "thicker glass and bonded composite material"?? Hmmm...Sounds like the brochure.
Hey, be happy with your Toyota but don't use smoke and mirrors to dress it up and roar over Ford owners. None of your points give the Tundra any advantage.
hard to walk thru here with all the bs on the ground. Gm has one plant in Canada, Delphi division in Mexico, and 15 assembly plants in the states. Yeah, I guess that makes them foreign. and toyota's headquarters in japan, yeah, that makes them domestic.
the tundras have good quality and performance, but latch onto an 6,000 lb boat or 10,000 lb travel trailer and take it thru the hills with regularity, and you will see that the 1-smaller frame, 2-smaller transmission, 3-smaller differential, 4-smaller engine will NOT hold up over as the miles mount up. Its called fatigue life. I'm an Mech. Engineer, and if you are one, surely you would have studied that at some point. How can that Tundra rear end be half the size of GM, Ford, or Dodge, and be able to pull the same force and exert the same or lower stress. impossible.
take the tundra to the grocery store. take your big 3 to work.
I wouldn't have mind a Ford or GM (GM being more desirable), but I got a good deal on my Tundra with a fair trade in on my truck.
Seems like everyone is saying how much cheaper the Ford is, but there are bad Ford dealers just like there are bad Toyota dealers.
I like to buy from someone local. I try to get to know the sales manager, and set up a relationship with the business. Seems like my local Ford dealer wasn't interested, but my Toyota dealer was. But to say that the Ford is cheaper is not always true.
Just my 2 cents.
Subject: The Kelley Blue Book site generated over 18 million vehicle pricing reports last month. Here is a list of the Hot 50—the new car models people are most interested in—based on the New Car Pricing reports generated last month.
http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.sp?kbb&&55&hot
Ford F series #1
Toyota Tundra #34
The proof is in the many happy Toy owners who have used their trucks to haul heavy loads and have amassed hundreds of thousands of miles without failure. All 3 of my chevy trucks had wheel bearings failing and leaking differentials before they had 100,000 miles on them and I never towed anything more than a small utility trailer. My light duty 78 toyota has been used to haul late 70's vintage oldsmolboats and ford galaxies from WA state to Mexico and it was still running good (but finally starting to burn oil) when I swapped engines at 280,000 miles. My Dad's 85 Ford was hauled off long ago with 120K and numerous, costly repairs. Toyota trucks have been so outstanding for me that I will continue to reward them with my business. I could care less how many Ford f-150s, escorts or taurus station wagons are sold. There are many top-selling products that are of mediocre quality. Examples: Huffy bicycles, foldgers coffee, Home depot's lumber and yes, McDonald hamburgers!
RW - I have been in a Tundra, and I didn't fit comfortably. Whether or not the Tundra "measures" the same, it does not fit the same as my F-150. I see things that could have been done better on the inside of the F-150, but there were also things that could have been done better in the Tundra. At least Ford erred on a side that was comfortable for me. I don't mind my F-150 being louder. It's not like I drive a diesel, I don't really notice the engine. I don't care about lateral G's on skidpads, I am not a drag racer. I am surprised that the Tundra gets better gas mileage. I have the 5.4, acc'd to the documentation it gets 260 hp and 330 ft-lbs (I have never had it dyno'ed). I also get 15 mpg all in city driving. Getting better as it gets warmer, last tank was 16.2 and this tank will be better. I didn't know the Tundra did better than that. I don't sit in the back, only cargo and (very) occasionally a passenger, so I don't care about a flimsy piece of padding glued to the window. Heck, I don't think anyone can sit in the back of the Tundra so why does it matter? The F-150 suits my needs perfectly, and IMO looks better too!
First because it is a safer, stronger vehicle. If the thick doors on the Ford hurt your head, imagine what will be hurt in a side collision with the thinner Toyota doors. Too bad NHSTA didn't side impact test the Tundra. The side impact tests are comparable between all vehicles since the test vehicle is hit by an impact similar to a vehicle that weighs 3015 lbs travelling at 38.5 MPH. BTW, the Tundra is not identical to the F150 in frontal crash testing. Even if this test was valid for comparing between different weight vehicles (which it is not) the F150 gets 4 stars for both driver and passenger and the Tundra 4 for the driver and only 3 stars for the passenger. 4 stars means 11 to 20% chance of serious injury, 3 stars, 21 to 30%.
Second, because engineering pays better than labor. Why are you an engineer and not a parts installer on a Toyota assembly line? If Tundra was designed in the US, it was probably just the shape of the body being designed by artist-type designers and not engineers designing engines, transmissions, suspensions and frames. There is some benefit that the Tundra is assembled in the US, but not as much as if it and it's components were engineered here as well.
If you want max performance (acceleration, handling, braking) buy a car. I doubt hauling hang gliders requires a heavy duty truck. Hauling 1000 lbs and pulling a 5000 lb trailer every week does.
*****************************
Translation...(it's from the Tacoma!)
If the ford doors are so thick and heavy duty, why are they cracking under their own weight? Keep them comparisons coming, just makes the Tundra look better every time!
Toyota (tow hitch & wire, captains chairs, all
weather, convenience, cd, fog lights, and 16" wheels) invoice is 25,529 and dealer will sell at 500 over invoice. 26,029
Ford (slide window, auto trans, trailer, cd,
keyless entry, captains chairs, p255 tires, and
limited slip) invoice is 25,536. I figure I can get at invoice. 25,536
Chevy (captains chairs, auto, p245 tires and
wheels, fog lights, cd, and trailer package)
invoice is 26,062. I don't know what I'd have to
pay for the new 4-door, but it won't be less than invoice.
So, for the trucks I'm looking at Toyota is
cheaper than the chevy and about 500 more than the ford. With Toyota, I give up limited slip, but I get a better engine than the smaller ford or chevy V8. $500 isn't enough to sway my mind either way. I was torn between the ford and the toyota, but I've just decided to get the tundra for the perceived quality. I drove numerous Tundras and F-150s and they are both great, but the Tundra did feel more solid, smooth, powerful and advanced to me.
I'm probably a typical Tundra buyer. Moving up from a smaller truck (Dakota) and have experienced Toyota quality (Corolla with 150K & flawless). I tow a 3000 lb boat quite a bit in summer, haul dogs, decoys and other hunting equiptment in fall, snowmobiles and ice fishing gear in winter. I want a truck that will be exceedingly reliable, will haul to fit my needs (If I owned a 26 foot 5th wheel, I'd be getting a big diesel), has good resale, is comfortable and fun to drive.
Most of the arguments posted above appear pretty trivial to me. I think both trucks are great 1/2 tons and would perform similarly. Gas mileage is about the same, safety is about the same, comfort is about the same, performance is about the same, and so is the price. I think that if Ford owners opened their minds and drove a Tundra, they would agree it is a pretty good truck. To say that a Tundra is only good for groceries and a F 150 is a work truck appears ridiculous. They are just so similar - I'm just betting that over the long haul Toyota will be more reliable.
I'll bet my 401(k) that even if that were true, the Tundra would still be outsold by both Ford and Chevy. The brand loyalty is just too strong when it comes to good old pick ups. No way will Toyota top Ford or Chevy.
I don't care what anybody else drives either, but there's a lot more badmouthing foreign products than American products. Rightfully so if you are strong american labor union. But that's political and is independent of truck quality.
You have yet to explain to us how the Tundra displays these "obvious" advantages over the Ford. Try explaining points instead of hiding behind "lateral g's on the skid pad".
If the current eight cylinder used is so worthy--why has Ward's Auto rejected it? Are they owned by Ford or something?
The locals use the Toys over the Big 3? Why do you suppose this is? Maybe because Toyota penetrated their market earlier and established a better infrastructure for supply and parts? I see Mitshubishis everywhere in the Caribbean and Central America but are they superior to all others? Of course not. They simply got into that market and made it worthwhile for them while larger companies were uninterested.
Side note to all other Toy fans: How do you stop your heads from spinning?? How does the logical settle in your arguments that a new model from Toyota is more reliable due to perception of other models yet claim the Ford motor is not tested enough over time? How is something new more reliable than another?? You have proven to be as blind as some Big 3 fans.....
Quad on post 82: LOL!!!! (I noticed there was no rebuttal to your observation--silence says it all.)
All I can say is based on my life-experience, I think that my chances for a extremely reliable vehicle are better with Toyota. It is my opinion, which has been formed by ownership of a toyota corolla, a ford bronco, a GM car, and a dodge truck, knowing several toyota truck owners, knowing LOTS of F 150 owners, reading whatever literature is available, and driving several new Tundras and F150s. It's my opinion based on my experiences.
I'm neither a "fan" of toyota, nor am I "blind". I am fully aware that this is a new model year and therefore there is risk. I am also fully aware of the problems that have been reported by other Tundra owners. However, new F 150s are not without problems.
As far as using logic to make my decision, I really wish there was some objective, independent, scientifically valid information that I could use to choose a truck. In my opinion all of the test drive reviews, comparison tests, and consumer reports-type tests are almost useless.
What is needed (and will never happen) are long-term, heavy-use tests of large sample size. 100 Tundras, 100 F-150s, 100 Chevy's, 100 Rams all similarly equipt and right off the factory line tested side-by-side over 12 months under heavy work conditions. Statistical analysis of frequency of breakage, severity of breakage, repair costs, rattles, squeaks, performance, everything.
Since we consumers will never be armed with such information, it will have to be opinions based on very little FACTUAL information. Opinions which are influenced by life-experience, marketing ploys, peer pressure, status, etc. The Ford vs. Toyota vs. GM vs. Chrysler arguments will rage on forever because opinions are just like you-know-whats... everybody has one.
I'll let you know if the Tundra was a good way to part with $30K in about 12 years.
Why should I trust the opinion of Wards Auto over my opinion, which is that the Toy V8 will easily serve my needs.
As far as the differential being from the Tacoma, so what? Assuming that it is true (I don't know if it is true) only time will tell if that is a problem. If Toyota's reliability track record is any indication, the differential will last a long long time.
Excellent points! and Rwell made the rebuttal everyone expected. nothing.
In my heavy duty industry experience, i never saw a toyota hauling 10,000 lbs hundreds of miles thru hills, or off road to oil sites or thru hell and highwater because the job required it to. Now the Tundra is bigger and obviously better than anything Toyota had before. But better? It hasn't proven anything. I have my proof here in Texas, come have a look.
As for price, you might get lucky and find a Toy dealer that will sell you something for $500 over invoice but they are a rare bird. Most of the dealerships are way out in left field on their prices. I shopped for a Camry for my wife but bought a Honda instead because the dealer was willing to make a great deal.
The F150 is a bigger truck with more payload capability and has options that make it a serious work/tow/haul vehicle. Being the #1 truck for 22 years makes a statement. Maybe the Tundra will make a statement but their owners must pass the test of time before they can really and truly talk about their trucks.
Unlike rwellbaum, you actually answer questions and I appreciate that very much. I agree with your assertion that life-expierences must be weighed and mine is of 70-plus trucks for a roofing firm. No bragging here--just a simple fact on how I base some of my decisions.
The problem with Ward's Auto is the same with Consumer Reports and Motor Trend,etc because there supposed tests are never apples to apples. Some critisize purely subjective themes as "accessibility to the radio". Huh? To me, every car/truck is foreign with interior controls until the end of the first week--then somehow my [non-permissible content removed] Sapien brain kicks in and learns the location of these buttons.
The reliability issue is an interesting one. I will never make the claim that Ford is without faults and is not made-error free. However, I make the same evaluation of the Tundra. Just because this vehicle is made by Toyota doesn't mean that every one will be flying high after 300,000 miles.
I personally think the Tundra versus Ford issue is moot. Toyota used the F-150 as their muse and blueprint and it reflects very much in design. Ford must have been doing some things right since Toyota certainly noticed.
As to reliability, I'd love for some dealer to hand me a Tundra for my firm in which I could truly test it unlike most owners. However, I don't wish to spend 25 grand to find out I'm right just so I can go back to Edmund's and roar.
Comparison tests are really stupid. In addition to radio controls, seat comfort, steering feel, and most everything they talk about is subjective.
There is no good source of reliability data.
Toyota vs. F150 is really close to a toss-up. Cost, towing capacity, performance, gas mileage, etc.
Like I said before, I will let you know about my decision in 10 years or so. In the mean time get a toyota, I'd like to hear your evaluation.
I'm sorry to embarrass Ford owners, but cdean (the heavy metal expert) claims F-150 trucks have thicker, safer doors. I've driven both trucks in all kinds of terrain and when loaded. The Tundra is simply better. No squeaks, rattles when going offroad. The whole dashboard of the Ford vibrates when going over bumps. It also has lots of body roll (probably due to it's higher CG) when carrying the same load as the Tundra. The Tundra is quieter, has more torque and HP for the same displacement engine, has a smaller turning radius, Has a safer back seat, has a better planned and layed out engine compartment. The ford is 8 inches longer. look at all the dead space between the grill and the engine. That's where the 8 inches comes from. The tundra has the same legroom as the ford and although the outside is 3" more narrow the ford only manages 1" of extra hiproom. Having a slightly smaller exterior while retaining the interior space helps when traversing narrow trails or weaving through congested traffic. These reasons on top of the proven Toyota reliability is why I went with the Tundra.
Avalon or taurus
Previa or windstar
4runner or explorer
Tundra or F-150
Landcruiser or expedition
It's not hard to see the trend. The cars on the left are what people call QUALITY vehicles. The ones on the right are what some people are willing to SETTLE for.
As for the towing issue. Does the Tundra offer different rear end ratios to meet different towing (or not) needs? NO. Does the Tundra offer a limited slip of locking differential? NO. If you are a person who tows a boat up to the lake, would you like to be on a slick boat ramp with your open differential 2wd Tundra and that 2 ton boat is dragging you and your truck back into the lake? OUCH! I'm glad I have limited slip on my Ford to get the job done!
As for the capacity of the bed. Tundra is 6" shorter and 6" shallower and therefore it has less capacity than the Ford. Am I mistaken on this or does this spell less volume?
Personally on the issue of reliability. Reliability is a bunch of hootspa. A certain number of owners, from either manufacturer, will get a bad truck. If you were the owner, you wouldn't give a hoot what the stats were, you just want someone to fix the problem. Given that everybody is just rolling the dice when they buy a new truck, 'reliability' becomes a completely personal and subjective value. Just like quality. Some people can claim that the door skin prob shows the F-Series isn't a quality truck, while others may put more emphasis on the fact that they never had a problem with the Ford's drive train.
In essense, what I'm trying to say is: LIGHTEN UP, IT'S ONLY A TRUCK. We're not talking about your mama.
What I meant when I said perceived - is that you have a perception that a Camry or Accord will be more reliable than a Taurus or Grand Am. You don't know how a car on a lot will actually perform. And there isn't good data to prove the historical reliability record. Too much sampling bias, reporting bias, and the sampling size is usually too small. Don't get me wrong, I agree that Toyota/Honda are probably more reliable, but proving that objectively is more difficult than just quoting Consumer Reports or some other rag. My point is that in the end, we are all making decisions based on our opinions and experiences not on good data - and that is why it's difficult to say that the Tundra is better than the F150 (or worse for that matter).
I agree that the Tundra lacks options. No limited slip, no manual trans, etc. I also think the bed should be another couple inches. However, the diff it comes with is fine for towing (3.92?) and you can get 4wd if you have boat launching/retrieving worries.
The Tundra meets the majority of pick-up owners needs. You are right, though, if you really have to have a 2wd limited slip, a v8 with manual trans, or an extended cab with an 8 foot box then you're not getting a 2000 Tundra. At least in Wisconsin, those combinations are not very common.
Meanwhile, as I would expect heated exchange in topics like this, it does seem interesting why so people who own trucks other than the Tundra spends so much time in Tundra topics.
Anyway, In My HUMBLE Opinion, there is not such thing as Tundra vs F-150. By saying so means that there is some sort of competition of ownership. I have friends that own Fords, and I haven't lost any respect for them, yet.
WAY too much in what some printed rag says about
your truck!!! Jees, you would think that they were
critizing (or praising) your family heritage!
I own a Tundra, but I wouldn't give 3 cents for
what Consumer Reports says about my truck. Why you ask? I also own a Camry, and I think that car is the biggest piece of junk rolling around for 20K!!!! Yet CR loves the way it drives and
reliability and engineering, ect. ect. The thing
is a tin can that can't out corner a coke bottle!!
So, gee wiz, while it's nice that Toyota has sent
me a license plate frame that claims the Tundra to
be some winner of the Truck of the Year by some rag that they pay more $$$ than my annual income to show nice pictures of their truck, I think I'll
leave this piece of plastic in a round can under my kitchen sink, so as to NOT adveriste the fact that I can't think for myself.
(Gee, I think that was one heck of a run on
sentence).
Just my 2 cents.
And as far as the Tundra vs. F-150 debate, I also don't think of it as a competition. But, when someone is looking for a new truck, they might come down to the Tundra and the F-150. Or the Ram and the Tundra, or ... That's why these boards are here, to help those who ask for it. Oh, and so that we can heckle each other during the work day if we want
It is not the Tundra that I am bad mouthing, I think it is a great truck, nothing bad to say about it. But I can't agree with statements that it is already more capable and more RELIABLE than the big 3, when the only place I've EVER seen one is the grocery store or Wal-Mart.
All of us would agree that if you're going to haul 10 k lbs you are getting something more substantial than a Tundra. That doesn't mean that the Tundra can't do what it is intended to do.
If your argument is that because a maker has heavy duty equipt, they can make better small trucks, then you should be driving an Isuzu. Or maybe a Volvo wagon.