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Mazda9

24

Comments

  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    I'd say a 6s coupe would be a sweet car! But they probably want to put you in an RX8 instead so that is a far fetched idea.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I think that a stretched Mazda6 with more features would cover the price range and competition that the Mazda9 (929, Millenia) would cover.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    The 6 will be super-sized for the 07-08 model year so it won't be the same size as it is now. I agree it should stay the same size as it is now but the Japanese Executives at Mazda don't believe it should.

    Responding to the post about a Mazda 6 coupe a I think Mazda should bring back the Mx-6 name and put an MX-6 on a shortened Mazda 6 platform for 07-08. After all the 6 will be super-sized for 07 so the buying enthusiast needs a car to pick up the slack for the current 6 in my opinion. An 07 Mx-6 should be styled a little differently than a next generation 6.

    Reading post #49 what use does Mazda have for a rebadged Ford Pick-up? There is like a 3500 discount at a dealership in New Jersey on the current B-Series. Mazda should build their own pick-up they want a pick-up in their line-up.

    Also seeing a next generation Tribute but on a Mazda 3 platform isn't the 3 a platform a littlr small to be a base platform for a Tribute?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    "Also seeing a next generation Tribute but on a Mazda 3 platform isn't the 3 a platform a littlr small to be a base platform for a Tribute? "

    The platform is flexible, (which is why Ford is using the Mazda6 platform to underpin 10 future vehicles from sedans, to cross-over to minivans). So the next Tribute/Escape/Freelander will share the Focus (euro), C1 platform, a slight variation of it, but same family.
  • pazakpazak Member Posts: 16
    Having just concluded 4 weeks of intense 6 shopping, and having had contact with 5 different dealers, I've concluded that the Mazda product is not getting the best out of their dealerships. They have a very good product that doesn't get the attention it deserves. When your dealership is also selling Buicks, Pontiacs, Hondas, Hyundais and Fords, your lost in the mix.

       Since Ford may be only three or four years away from dropping the Mercury label (ala Olds and Plymouth), why not think about moving Mazda into the Lincoln showrooms. I think it would be a win-win for both makes. Lincoln dealers would benefit from younger traffic thru their showrooms and it would steer Lincoln itself to freshening its designs toward "bridging" to these younger buyers as they age.

       Put an entry level Lincloln with a spotier appearance on the market, starting at $28K and rhere will be no need for a Mazda 9. Mazda could continue to do what it does best, build fun driving affordable cars. The Lincoln showrooms would offer Mazda buyers top-notch customer service and technicians. Having just owned a 2000 Sable, I can testify that Lincoln-Mercury dealerships are excellent at customer service and repair issues. I think most Mazda owners would be very surprised and happy with the result.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I agree, walking into some Mazda dealerships, is as walking into a Lincoln dealership. Not many know the product, are lost, and are what I call "traditionalist" who do not know their products, are probably trying to sell you a vinyl roof package, and lack the tenacity and energy to sell a good product.

    As for Mercury dissapearing, there's no chance on that. Lincoln needs Mercury to servive, and Ford needs Mercury to push some other products as well. And with the current emphansize by Elena Ford on products, it's certainly not something that will happen in the next 10-15 years from what I've seen.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    to Lincoln and Mazda sharing dealerships. You want to kill Mazda or what? Those are two totally different demographic's: Mazda and Lincoln. I would not want to see Mazda dealers put alongside Lincoln dealerships.

    Lincoln to me has no plans of refreshing its models. I haven't seen anything indicating Lincoln is heading towards doing that. Lincoln is 5 years away from doing that but not now.

    Mazda dealerships have lack of knowledge I think because of the lack of following of the product. I think Mazda will start to get the most out of its dealerships once the Mazda brand get some market penetration in the US. What do you see now mostly on the road now? Ford, GM, Honda, and Toyota and Nissan because they have big followings. Mazda has yet to gain that big following. They are heading towards it but that takes some time.
  • rock44xrock44x Member Posts: 78
    "Those are two totally different demographic's: Mazda and Lincoln."

    thats the idea.
  • pazakpazak Member Posts: 16
      If I'm not mistaken there are already plans on the board to cross share some Mazda components with Lincoln. Regardless whether it's Lincoln/Mazda or Pizza Hut/Mazda, the point is that this company needs much stronger representation in the field then it's getting now. There is no chance of Mazda ever knocking on the door of Honda or Toyota with this kind of dealer network.

      My dealer couldn't even sell me a Mazda extended warranty because he didn't handle them. He tried to sell me a Chrysler warranty for my 6. Can you believe that !!!!!!
       
       Apparently Chrysler corporate will let him sell a few Mazdas but they won't let him sell service contracts unless they are Chryslers very own.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    must be a bad dealership or something. Why would anybody try to sell a Chrysler warranty for a Mazda car? Thats ridiculous.

    Mazda's demographic screams "young" while Lincoln says my Grandfahers car. I don't think young people want to be walking into the Grandfathers car dealership. Its just not attractive.

    I understand Mazda can't grow like this with their current drop of dealerships. They need single car dealerships.

    One Last thing I don't think Lincoln dealerships are bad. They are losing customers because their exterior designs are like 5-7 years behind the times. Customer Servce is good. I just don't like the idea of Mazda/Lincoln dealerships.
  • pazakpazak Member Posts: 16
    "must be a bad dealership or something. Why would anybody try to sell a Chrysler warranty for a Mazda car? Thats ridiculous".

       I contacted Mazda and they gave me a standard corporate e-mail saying that not all of their dealers will write Mazda service contracts. What that means is that Mazda is the weak sister on the lot and can get bullied easily.
     
        Another dealer near me has so little floor space that if you want to see a Mazda in a particular color, they have to send a carhop four or five blocks away to pick one off a lot and drive it back to the dealership. Your average Dunkin Donuts has more square footage than this place alots to Mazda.
        Lastly,you'd be surprised at how many under forty-somethings you will see at Lincoln dealerships and service departments these days due to the LS.
  • pazakpazak Member Posts: 16
    "As for Mercury dissapearing, there's no chance on that."

       I wish I was as optimistic as you on that one. There good cars with good people behind them, but they just don't move'm off the lots like they used to. This new lineup of Montego,Monterrey and Mariner all seem to be just re-badged Fords as usual for Mercury. I got "intimate" with a Montego at the auto show and found it to be a bit homely. It's sister the Ford 500 is much more attractive.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    When making that comment, which some other's might have already read in other forums, it related to the relationship where Ford is dependent on Mercury.

    Granted, it's just rebadged vehicles, but that's something that will become even more common in the future...Where vehicles will differ by a few styling touches, and 400K+ unit sales will be left to a handful of models.

    As current things stand, and just as an educated guestimate, a platform usually needs to sell around 100K to make it profittable.

    Under Ford's current line up, the Crown Vic would be hard to justify if it weren't for the Grand Maquis, Marauder, and Town Car sales. (Sidenote: The tooling has been amortized for numerous years, making them cash cows since the engineering has been paid off) The Sables 50-60K sales, make the Taurus a justifiable business plan as well.

    As for a different stradegy, we have the Mountaineer (which ironically sees sales gains usually in months when the Explorer sales are down). This helps the Explorer (not that it needs much help since it sells in huge quantities), but usually for the customer that might look to buy the Aviator and can't afford it, chances are they can be talked into a Mountaineer.

    As for "cloned" vehicles like the Montclair (Futura's twin), the Monterrey, Montego, they will target a demographic that may want a Ford, but wants to stand out a bit by not seeing their same vehicle at every traffic light. And offer a few more options/touches, that differ them from their Ford twin.

    If Ford can offer this (and they will) and attain the customer, even if it's as few as 10K units a year, it's 10K lesser units that aren't going to the competition. Sometimes their goals might not be to be the best seller, but there's vehicles with different missions.

    Cougar was a test to try and bring in younger customer's to Lincoln/Mercury. Obviously we saw that didn't work (because of numerous other reasons, mainly dealing with the dealership experience).

    Lincoln LS was a test to see if Detroit could build a real performance sedan. They just lost focus because of the firing of Jac Nasser and had to concentrate on restructuring.

    But getting back to the point without going into 10 bunny trails...Mercury's best sales years, where when they were actually cloned Ford's. It wasn't too long ago where Mercury was pumping out 400K units yearly. That's almost as whole Volvo line sells around the world.

    And if they can regain such sales by offering vehicles with minimal changes that are cost effective, why not? Elena Ford has concentrated a bit on offering more vehicles to the line, slowly but surely it'll start picking up.

    Overall, produce wise I'm not concerned much over Mercury. I believe Ford needs to concentrate on the dealership experience. A total rejuvination of not only the actual showrooms (as they are doing) but trained people who can deal with all variety of demographics. I'm surely not saying they need to cater to the "bling bling" crowd, but let's retire SOME (not all) blue-haired sales people.

    I myself would not wish to have Mazda merged into Lincoln/Mercury showrooms. If they together (L/M) can't get their act together, let's not overfill the pot by offering Mazda in the same soup mix.

    Also
  • pazakpazak Member Posts: 16
    Agreed on most all points. Mazda could never share floor space with Mercury becaause they compete for much of the same marketing demographic. Ford would be crazy to link the two. My contention about Lincoln/Mazda was predicated upon Merc being phased out, as has been rumored in recent years.

      Maybe I'm just being selfish. I've been spoiled by L/M service depts. and want them to work on my Mazda too !! Oh well.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I'll tell you where the rumor started. This came up when the whole Ford Explorer/Firestone tires issue was coming up, Jac Nasser was fired, and many auto journalist trying to grasp for a story started predicting doom's day senario's for Ford.

    One of them being the doom of Mercury.... In fact, the story was tossed around so much, Ford publically had to state they had plans for Mercury. Elena Ford was placed in charge of Mercury, and through her leadership, Mercury will now start receiving more vehicles....

    Granted, cloned Ford's, but let's look at the stable back in 2000....GrandMarquis, Sable, Cougar, and Mountaineer...

    Let's look at the current lineup, and into the next few years... GM, Marauder, Sable (for awhile), Moutaineer, Monterey, Futura's twin (Montclair), Montego, Mariner, Freestyle twin (one other vehicle I'm forgetting).

    Getting back to the point... there's many rumors that auto journalists work on, trying to grasp the next big story. And while you do here of the negatives, seldomly will you see one take his words back, when his "rumor", didn't go as planned. Just like the one that stated the Aviator was being killed because of slow sales, when in reality sales number's are going accordingly with Ford's initial sales estimates.
  • nedc2nedc2 Member Posts: 192
    Cougar sales were really good for the first couple years, but these little sporty coupes have a real short shelf life, they go out of fashion after about two years, just look at the Celica's sales figures. Lincoln Mercury's problem was that there wasn't another car for the young Cougar buyers to move into, the LS was too pricey for most, and leaving aside the over-large chrome rear licence surround a little bit too understated, and there was nothing in Mercury's lineup at all. A real sport version of the Sable, if done right, might have worked but Ford never put any money into that. The new Mazda based Lincoln might be the car that could have worked, but now Mercury doesn't have its own entry level vehicle though. Why?

    Mazda, for Ford's sake as well as its own, needs to remain somewhat separate from Ford because there are alot of people who won't look at a vehicle with an american nameplate on it. But, Mazda needs more dealers, preferably standalones, more models, and more capacity to grow. Mazda also needs another vehicle for Mazda buers, import buyers, to move up to, preferably Japanese made, or at least made in a Mazda plant. I think taht is more realistic in the near future than expecting Mazd 3 or 6 buyers to move into bigger Ford's, Lincolns, or PAG vehicles. BTW, if there's an urgent need for dealer consolidation or re-alignment among Ford's brands it's in the PAG, they really shoud be together, Volvo/Jaguar/Land Rover, a select few few with Aston Martin. Most are currently tied up with other import brands, e.g. BMW/Land Rover, Volvo/Honda/VW, Jaguar/Saab, etc.

    As far as Mercury's stable of cloned Fords, you really have to give the design team credit, given what they have to work with, basically front and rear ends and interior fabrics and palettes, they've really really managed to create a distinctive and recognizable visual brand identity, something Ford division is still struggling to do, only their trucks and SUVs seem to have a coherent brand idntity at the moment. The Five Hundred and restyled Focus are a good start, but next year there's the Futura, with a completely different theme.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Either idea would probably not be a disaster, but as a frequent buyer - I'd rather see Volvo-Lincoln-Mercury stores and Ford-Mazda stores myself. Seems like a better fit to me.
  • unixxusunixxus Member Posts: 97
    I think there is much misunderstanding as to the Ford/Mazda relationship. Ford owns 33 percent of Mazda and not an out right ownership of the company. Yes, this gives Ford a controlling interest under Japanese law, but does not mean Ford can ram anything it wants down Mazda's throat. The other 66 percent stake holders surely have a say in how the company is run. Volvo is more of an American company than Mazda is, even then, Ford only owns volvo cars and not the Volvo truck company which is still owned by Volvo of Sweden.The Mazda-Ford relationship can be correctly descibed as a joint venture relationship. To not dilute brand identity, I seriously doubt that we will be seeing Ford-mazda or Volvo-Lincoln-Mercury stores all arount the place any time soon. Once Mazda improves its brand awareness with the current crop of cars, it will definitely introduce products above the current Mazda6 lineup (Mazda9 and new SUV(FX35 Competitor)). It is laughable to think that Ford can use the mazda6 platform to launch products larger than the current mazda6 but will deny Mazda the owner and designer of the platform from doing the same.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    They are working on that now. Another issue if Mazda is to grow their fleet of cars most Mazda dealers are pretty small right? Will they have enough lot room at dealers to sell like an SUV over 30K or a mid-size SUV or even a coupe version of the Mazda 6?

    Yeah I think Ford-Mazda dealers would be good. Ford doesn't cater to Mazda's demographic and Ford doesn't say your grandfathers car either.

    Mazda is now being run by the Japanese mainly now. I think Mazda Corp knows what it has to do be successful in the US. Mazda kinda lost their way in the mid 90's now they are trying to ressurect the Mazda brand. I think they are doing a good job so far. Keep in mind since 1998 Mazda sales have been up every year from the previous year with the exception of 2002. The slow launch of the 6 they bobbled that. I think that taught them a lesson though. Mazda may not be gaining market share in ths US like Nissan but Mazda is definately heading in upward direction.

    Also I agree if Mazda makes another 929 or Millenia type car it should be made in Japan. Flat Rock is already making the 6 and Mustang. The only Mazda car that sells well thats made in Japan is the 3. THe MPV isn't the segament buster that the Caravan, Oddy, or Sienna are. THe Rx-8 doesn't sell like really big either. Mazda's main cars are the 6 and 3 to sell. Thats about it and maybe the Tribute a liitle bit too.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    "The Mazda-Ford relationship can be correctly descibed as a joint venture relationship."

    Not! While ford does not own Mazda completely, it has controlling ownership. That means they call the shots. There's no joint venture about it at all. Obviously you don't know what a joint business venture is.

    "It is laughable to think that Ford can use the mazda6 platform to launch products larger than the current mazda6 but will deny Mazda the owner and designer of the platform from doing the same."

    With controlling ownership, they sure can.
  • rock44xrock44x Member Posts: 78
    who cares what is the dealer format, mazda/lincoln, ford/mazda if anyone want a mazda they will go any were to get one.

    Mazda new SUV a FX35 Competitor yeah right try Honda Pilot, Mitsubishi Endeavor and Nissan Murano.

    MPV is to small and under power for Americans families.(what happened to the awd 4dr mpv back in the day)

    6coupe, a 3coupe would be better, midsize coupe are hard sales

    Rx-8 under power and odd styling, were is mazdaspeed on this one.

    mazda9 a long (more 190 inch in length) near Luxury with no body roll, 6 like handing and more or the same power as a 265hp maxima, 260hp g35, 225hp es, or 270hp TL yeah right .
    history tends to repeat it self(929,Millenia )

    mazda future is in small to midsize cars, minivans and suvs, the MX-5 Miata, RX-8, 6 , and 3 are all successful and a start for mazda to move in the right direction and in the future RX-7, crossover suv, mx-5 coupe, MX-Flexa, and MX-Micro Sport is the way to go for mazda IMO.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    to follow up on your comments...Ford also makes the decision who is President and Chairman of the company.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Thanks, I didn't know about that. I would think it would be very significant WRT model offerings.
  • cutemorganitecutemorganite Member Posts: 37
    After I purchased my 6, the dealer had a new owner's dinner. At the dinner, they guy at the dealer mentioned Mazda making a 9. I already mentioned this on the Millenia board. That is what I was told right from one of the representatives. I'm not saying it's true, but it's something to think about.
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    Mazda could concievably, EVENTUALLY put out a 9, but first they need to straighten out their current line. But they'll NEED a "9" eventually, because they need something other than the RX8 to slot above the 6...Toyota and Nissan each have a car to move up from from their midsizers (Camry-Avalon, Altima-Maxima) and if Mazda wants to play on the same field, they need something like that too.

    That being said, forst they need to square away current models. They need a "sportier" SUV than the current Tribute (though it's OK for now), and what are they doing selling plain-jane B-Series trucks? Lower the suspensions, tweak the steering drop in a new engine, and compete with Dodge SRT and Chevy SS trucks in the "sport truck" arena...that would be PERFECT for Mazda, and would fit well with the brand identity they're trying to establish, and start giving them the customer base and then dealer base they need to expand and then support a new Mazda 9 and various other models (maybe a WRX/Evo competitor as well?)

    That would definitely be a start.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Ok, wait a second Ford is the same company ok that thought in the mid 90's they could make Mazda into Toyota. Then I guess Ford saw Mazda sales dipping and then woops we are not making any money so I think Ford let Mazda make their own decesions after 1997. I think Mazda has more leeway with Ford than Chrysler has with Mercedes. Mercedes is making the same mistakes with Chrysler now that Ford did in the mid 90's with Mazda.

    As far as Mazda using the platform for the 6 for other Mazda vehicles Mazda will use a streched 3 platfrom from what I have read on this board for a next generation Tribute. Building other Mazda vehicles on on the 6 platform is at a least a few years away from what I see. A few years away means probably means the next generation 6 platform when Mazda can possibly build the SUV over 30K that they want to build or build a Mazda 9 on a stretched 6 platform. Its a little early to be talking about Mazda building vehicles off the 6 platform.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    "Its a little early to be talking about Mazda building vehicles off the 6 platform."

    It's already happening, you have the Ford Futura (Four-hundred), then the Lincoln Aviator will debut using the same platform, then the Lincoln Zephyr right after.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    mazda already has a green light on a mazda6 based SUV that is larger than the Tribute but smaller than an Explorer. It will be priced in the $30-40K range.

    ANT14...The zypher is going to be at the NY auto show in a couple weeks. I can't wait to see it. will you be there?? At a Lincoln meeting with D.Hazel he said there was going to be a surprise that will be in the showrooms in short order. Looks like the Zypher is it...he also said it will ariive before the Futura...but I have heard these promises before. haha
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    He stated it will arrive before the Futura(Five-Hunred)...that is odd. I'll have to find out since it's not sounding right....
  • unixxusunixxus Member Posts: 97
    "Mazda new SUV a FX35 Competitor yeah right try Honda Pilot, Mitsubishi Endeavor and Nissan Murano."

    According to an article in the trade journal Automotive News(03/8/04), Mazda is designing a luxury SUV (AAV) off the current mazda6 platform and in another article that featured an interview with the current CEO Hisakazu Imaki, he hinted that this vehicle will not be your traditional SUV (Honda Pilot, Mitsubishi Endeavor etc). He wants something that fits Mazda's image i.e sporty and fun to drive (FX35) with a price range of 30 to 40 thousand. The new SUV will use the new 3.5 liter V6 being developed be Ford. Below are excerpts from the Automotive news article.

    "GENEVA - Mazda dealers will get a sport wagon or all-activity vehicle derived from the Mazda6.

    The next-generation Aviator as well as a Ford version will arrive in fall 2006 as a 2007 model.

    The vehicle would fit nicely in Mazda's product strategy, John Parker, executive vice president of Mazda Motor Corp., said at the Geneva auto show.

    "Mazda would like to extend the range of its products," Parker said. "We are in 45 to 50 percent of the U.S. market, and we want to be in two-thirds of it."

    He said the Mazda variant might be more of an "all-activity-vehicle" than a sport wagon or SUV. That would make it more consistent with the Japanese company's sporty brand theme.

    Parker says the vehicle will join the Tribute sport wagon and MPV minivan in the lineup, not replace either one. It would probably be larger than the Tribute - about the size of a Lexus RX 330, he said.

    "There's room for two of those kinds of vehicles in the Mazda lineup," Parker said. "All-activity vehicles are a growing trend. We have to look at our market opportunities."
  • rock44xrock44x Member Posts: 78
    who would buy a 40k mazda?

    Lexus, Mazda, and Infiniti yeah right ford wont have it, thats what lincoln, Volvo, Jaguar and Land Rover for.

    a fx35 like suv sport car soul in a suv but come on mazda making a new SUV to be a Competitor of the FX35 and RX 330 that a bad move for a company on a come back.

    ps who would buy a 40k and up nissan, Honda, or Toyota no one that why we buy Lexus, Infiniti , and Acura Americans are so smart.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Not too long ago we had RX-7's that were up around $40K easily... Same as with Nissan and their previous 300ZX. And in todays showroom, the people who are buying the $40K+ vehicles, are buying Land Cruiser's, 4Runner's, Sequoia's, Armada's...

    As for who's smarter, depends upon the persons view... That Armada at Nissan will go around $33-40K, at the Infiniti dealership, same exact vehicle minus some tweaking on styling and 10 extra HP goes for $15K more...Who would the smarter buyer be?
  • rock44xrock44x Member Posts: 78
    "Not too long ago we had RX-7's that were up around $40K easily... Same as with Nissan and their previous 300ZX."
    and that is why those car die in the State, and the same will happen to a mazda suv at 40k.

    4Runner, Sequoia, Armada are all big suvs not crossovers, the Land Cruiser in a different league.
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    Ok, what about the Murano? Seems to be going strong so far. Maybe Mazda should consider the $30k price bracket instead. Or at least START at $30k and offer an optioned-up luxo version.
  • rock44xrock44x Member Posts: 78
    30k-33k for crossover is not bad at all that make sense for mazda.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    I remember when everyone laughed at honda building anything other than a CVCC...look what happened. I heard the same things I am hearing here. Everyone has to start somewhere. Mazda is on a trememdous roll compared to where they were...When you have a good vision, good leadership and the financial strength of one of the worlds largest car companies the possibilities are endless.
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    No one is saying Mazda can't do it. But you don't just all of a sudden leap into the 40k market. You kinda have to grow into it, I think.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Like Toyota grew into the Lexus LS 400?
  • dondiliodondilio Member Posts: 56
    Mazda has developed a great and desirable line of cars they'll probably be reliable. New Mazdas reward its drivers with a smile on their face every time they drive it. If they can keep up the good work they can go up market, they might even get to build their failed Amanti luxury line in 5 or 10 years.
    In order to do that, they must, like I said earlier, mature with their customers, have an offering above what they currently drive to keep them in their brand fold. In 3-5 years what will happen to 6 drivers if they dont offer a 9 or a bigger crossover? They'll probably switch to Toyota, Acura or Lexus. Im sure that with the current line-up they will win a lot of loyal customers. They can count me in for that matter, of course as long as they have a product that fits my needs.
    In 3 or 4 years when I will be in they market for a new sedan Ill would really consider a larger 6 with the same sporty character(9).
    If on the contrary they dont have anything to offer me Ill probably look at the Lincoln Zephyr or LS.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    When I was ready (actually needed for the job) an upscale car, if Lincoln hadn't been there, I would have moved away from Ford. But so far, Lincoln has filled my needs well.

    If I were a Mazda loyalist, and I need more than the 6, well, off we go! The 929 had a good following around here. One of my employees drives a Millenia, very nice car, but not quite large enough for my sedan needs.
  • r2s2r2s2 Member Posts: 93
    Mazda already took their run at that, with the abortive Amati line, so I doubt they'll go there again. I suspect that, as someone said before me, that they're more likely to move into the $30-35,000 market, with a car (9?) which will be to the 6 what the Avalon is to the Camry.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Makes sense to do it that way.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Like you, I don't expect mazda to offer a new luxury division like Amati...but remember, they did amati on their own without Ford's help. Ford was the one who actually forced them to pull the plug on the idea...

    But as it was pointed out...Mazda has aquired a whole new bunch of buyers who purchased the MZ6...many of these owners have nowhere to go in the mazda line if they want to move up. Mazda does not want to lose these people.
  • mascmasc Member Posts: 21
    The possibility of a Mazda9 is very slim, at least not anytime soon anyways. Mazda itself does not even have its own mid-size engine (3-some liters) as the current 3.0L in the Mazda6 and MPV is just a Ford Duratec 30. That is why in other parts of the world, other than North America, where Ford does not own a part of Mazda, Mazda6's and MPV's only come with a 2.3L as it is Mazda's own engine. To start its way to a Mazda9, Mazda would first have to either make its own mid-size engine or have the current 3.0L V6 available thorughout the world. THEN they can start to consider to make a Mazda9.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    They will be using the Duratec 3.5L V6 from Ford.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Mazda itself does not even have its own mid-size engine(3-some liters)as the current 3.0L in the Mazda and Mazda MPV is just a Ford Duratec 30."

    Mazda just doesn't put the Duratec in the Mazda 6 or MPV. Mazda itself does have finishing touches on those engines.

    Mazda has made its own V-6 engines in the past. The Miller-Cycle engine that was used in the Millenia got its positive amount of press. The last generation 626 was all Mazda which was a 2.5 liter engine and made 170 horsepower. I guess Mazda uses the Duratec to save money. Nothing wrong with that all long as Mazda has finishing touches on the Ford Engines I don't have a problem with it.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    You say..."That is why in other parts of the world, other than North America, where Ford does not own a part of Mazda.."

    Ford owns controlling interest in mazda, worldwide...not just north america.

    has anyone considered the idea that a higher end mazda might have a rotary? They are currently working on more powerful versions with more than the twin rotors..
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Geeze, I hope not. I just drove a new RX-8, and didn't like the feel of the Rotary for in town driving...... I likely wouldn't buy one unless they could really change the driving dynamics of the engine/transmission.
  • mascmasc Member Posts: 21
    ANT14, i DID say mid-size engine... why would they make another model, more expensive than the 6 but has an engine that is only several ten horses more power? The MAzda series would not make sense if only a 3.5L is going to be put in a 9. The 3 is a compact - 2.0L & 2.3L engines (small engines). The 6 has a 2.3L (base) and a 3.0L mid-size engine. So why make ANOTHER mid-size car for the 3.5L (supposedly put into a 9) as this mid-size engine would not provide adequate power for a larger sedan. This "9" would not be able to sell at all, the gap between the 6 and the supposed 9 would be way too close.

    Carguy58, i know Mazda makes finishing touches on the Duratec 30, which is why it makes 220hp (instead of 200) in the 6. But that is not the point. Mazda is only able to use a mid-size engine in North America because it is "borrowing" from Ford but in other parts of the world, Ford is not able to supply Mazda with the 3.0L V6 and Mazda does not haf its own. Which is why Mazda does not haf any V6's available for their Mazda 6's in any other parts of the world except in N. America, nevertheless, haf an even larger engine to use for the supposed 9.
    AND what if Mazda DID haf preivous V6's, they had the size of a 4-cylinder and did not provide power equal to modern V6's. For Mazda to even start thinking about a 9, they would first haf to have a 3.0L available in their 6's thoughout the world, which is what they are trying to do.

    Audia8q, for your comment: "Ford owns controlling interest in mazda, worldwide...not just north america." So what, the resources Ford has worldwide is measly, compared to the resourses they haf in NOrth America. This is why Ford is NOT able to supply MAzda 6's worldwide with their Duratec 30 (which Mazda still needs to refine it in their own plants).

    Please, don't pick at word usage or lack of details as it does take a long time to respond and i dont like tying... just read the points of the post and not nit-pick.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    "This "9" would not be able to sell at all, the gap between the 6 and the supposed 9 would be way too close."

    The Duratec35 can be tailored to produce anywhere from 240HP to even 300HP if need be. Considering the Mazda6 makes 220HP with it's 3.0L, the "9" with a Duratec35 can decently produce 250-260HP nicely.

    As example, let's take a look at other vehicles lines. Altima 250HP/Maxima 265HP, Camry 210HP/Avalon 220HP. Therefore having a Mazda6 with 220, and a Mazda9 with 250-260 would be ballpark with the competition.

    World markets are totally different from ours. The Mazda6 is perfectly fine with a 2.3L standard in other countries, BUT in the U.S., consumer's demand more power, hence the 3.0L.

    I wouldn't doubt it if once Ford switches to mass producing the 3.5L and implement it in vehicles currently using the 3.0L, that they might free-up some production and allow the 3.0L to be used as the standard engine around the world, for this Mazda9. In other words, numerous other countries receive OUR base engine, as their standard offering.

    But overall, I think the thing to considering is the platform, and where this vehicle will stem from. There's 2 possibilities being tossed around, the current 500/Montego/Freeestyle platform, or an enlarged Mazda6 platform. Overall, the vehicle will NOT be a standard sedan that we currently know. It's sort of a cross-over type sedan. Think Lincoln Navicross type of concept, where it's a sedan, but can be a cross-over in it's arrangement.
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