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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Now that I've looked more closely I think the main difference is the headlights followed by the chrome strip. The concept has thinner headlights while the production model has the taller projector style headlights. But the grille itself is pretty much the same.
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Member Posts: 121
    My local Lincoln/Mercury dealer is where I leased a Mountaineer. I went back the other day and saw my salesman in there. He's a good low pressure type so I stopped in. We went to the Zephyr where I lamented the fact that they didn't make it like the concept car. He gave me the old line that " The federal gov't won't allow us to." I'm not sure I beleive that one.

    The MIlan was impressive I really liked it. Good fit and finish and interior quality. The Zephyr is a nice car too but such a let down from the concept.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    I also think the production version is a lot closer to the concept than people think. The concept had 21" wheels, a larger C pillar which probably blocked rear visibility and smaller side mirrors. Other than that the difference are very minor.

    Go take a look at the front, especially how sleek the fit of the bumper is and the entire back end and then get back to me. With the concept the Lincoln would have shared very little body panels with the Mercury or Ford versions. Should have came out as is, nothing more to say about it.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Go take a look at the front, especially how sleek the fit of the bumper is and the entire back end and then get back to me. With the concept the Lincoln would have shared very little body panels with the Mercury or Ford versions. Should have came out as is, nothing more to say about it.

    We're talking about the MkX and Aviator concept. Which is probably wrong since this is a Zephyr forum. Not sure how we got off on that tangent.

    But let me take this opportunity to say again that at least 99 out of 100 prospective car buyers don't give a rats behind whether two cars share doors, rooflines or quarter panels.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    But let me take this opportunity to say again that at least 99 out of 100 prospective car buyers don't give a rats behind whether two cars share doors, rooflines or quarter panels.

    Keep saying that as sales continue to either decline or not astound. I mean to a certain extent I agree with you but the luxury market isn't that big and buyers around the 30K market jave a MULTITUDE of products to choose from and have been known to do more research and be more particular. A Fusion, A Milan, who cares. A Zephyr, hold on a second. Now we have to deal with Toyota saying publicly that the ES and Camry don't share any body panels, not one. You have GM saying that about the Escalade, Yukon, and Tahoe. Who are they taking shots at? The Blue Oval. When you can buy a 3 Series, exclusivity starts to matter and the fact that much of your car looks like a Ford may have a significant affect on your buying purchase.

    But like I said, I agree with you to some degree. The non sharing of body panels is only a slight advantage the concept had on the production model. The MAJOR advantage was the concept was so much better and daring looking. It had a better engine, it had a more unique and Lincoln design, it was ready to take on and take down a 3 Series.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The MAJOR advantage was the concept was so much better and daring looking. It had a better engine

    How is this a "better engine"?

    Power comes from a more potent version of Ford’s dual-overhead-cam 3.0-liter Duratec V-6, which drives the front wheels through a six-speed-automatic transmission. Lincoln did not give a horsepower figure.

    I agree the concept is a better looking car and I'm sure some of the changes were simply cost cutting. I'd like to wait and see the 2007 model in person before passing final judgement - the pictures don't look all that different but Ford says they had to rush the 2006 model and make compromises in design to meet the schedule.

    I think Fields is going to change this conservative approach that Ford has been using recently as he did with Mazda. By this fall they'll have all the major new vehicles done with the exception of the 2 new Lincoln sedans, so they should be able to focus on upgrading the existing models.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    I hope you're right and look forward to seeing changes at FoMoCo.
  • sffsff Member Posts: 2
    Any chance rain sensing windshield wipers might make it in? From the "high tech feature list" I only see Aux connector, Bluetooth, Rain sensing windshield wipers & push-button start (i.e. car sensing presence of key w/o you having to take it out of your pocket) missing really - it should be possible to get those in!?

    (it's funny how people's preferences differ - I'm below 30 but probably couldn't care less about the engine change and would really like to see the "minor convenience features" taken care of - if this wasn't a first-time model & it had those features I'd probably be driving one now...)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Based on Lincoln's experience with the rain sensing wipers in the LS (it had them from 2000 until halfway in either the 2003 or 2004 model year) I wouldn't expect to see them back anytime soon. Too many people either didn't like the way they worked or didn't understand how they worked and that drove up the number of user reported problems.

    FWIW that was one of my most favorite features and I'd be glad to have them back. The only annoying part was the wipers would occasionally do a single dry swipe when you started the car. Nothing like driving down the highway doing 60 and having a truck spray water all over your windshield unexpectedly and having the wipers come on full tilt within a fraction of a second.

    The aux input will be there for 2007 also. Not sure about bluetooth.
  • pnewbypnewby Member Posts: 277
    I agree about the auto wipers, I loved them on my LS. When they took them away, I decided not to buy another LS (got a Freestyle so go figure). Wanted something with more toys than my Y2K LS had, and by late '04, even the less expensive cars had more. The LS was more fun than any vehicle I ever had, they just let it die. :confuse:
  • And won't have its replacement ready without a big production gap.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    When they had the Zephyr concept, it was supposed to be introduced with the 3.5 engine. They've been talking about that 3.5 for years.

    I worry for Ford. Indeed the Edge will be out this fall but the pricing seems like it will be off. THe Aviator (MDX) does not give a significant reason why to buy it over the Edge and let us not forget that the market is not holding still. Look at the Saturn Outlook, GM Arcadia, and Buick Enclave. It is going to get real hard if the Edge and MDX aren't priced competitively and Ford has made no secret that it does not know what pricing will be.

    The Impala is miles better than a 500 and we won't even talk about what the Escalade is going to do to the Navi with 100 more hp and better gas mileage to boot.

    Lincoln has good intentions but those pave the way to hell. Their concepts are genuinely beautiful i.e. Aviator, Zephyr, MKS, but production normally falls far shorter. Look at what Buick is doing. They saw the reacton to the Enclave and are bringing the SUV out pretty much the same as the concept.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    About 2 months into it now and I am very happy so far. I pulled up outside a store and noticed a few guys looking at my Zephr, I received a call as I was walking in the store so I stood outside the store around the corner. When I ended my call a group of guys were standing around my car taking a look. I have the light interior with the blonde wood. Everytime I open the door I get a comment. Never had that before with a car. I keep hearing all these comments about power. It appears to have enough for what I want to do!
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Member Posts: 121
    The idea the any LINCOLN product can compete with the Acura TL is silly. THe Zephyr can't no matter how many times they plan to rename it. THe MKS won't either. Lincoln will be dead in 5 years.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    I find it somehow curious that the Zephyr looks so much larger in person than in pictures.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    "The idea the any LINCOLN product can compete with the Acura TL is silly. THe Zephyr can't no matter how many times they plan to rename it. THe MKS won't either. Lincoln will be dead in 5 years."

    Care to elaborate?
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    I totally agree, this car has a very nice presence in person. I saw it at the auto show about a month ago in Raleigh, NC. It commands respect despite what people say about it, i think it's looks are understated and elegant from any angle especically the front and rear. I also saw one on the interstate one night, and the tailights are awsome @ night time, very very nice. The only thing that i can honestly say i didnt like about this car is the way you feel when you sit in the car, the cowl is set so high, its like you have to sit up to look over the dash. But all in all a very nice vehicle from a design prospective.
  • find it somehow curious that the Zephyr looks so much larger in person than in pictures. It is only 2 or 3 inches shorter than the Azera, Lincoln LS, Lexus GS, and Infiniti M, so it is really not a small car. I find it curious that Ford can design so many cars that initially look smaller than they really are.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    "The idea the any LINCOLN product can compete with the Acura TL is silly. THe Zephyr can't no matter how many times they plan to rename it. THe MKS won't either."

    Agree on MKS. MKS will be based on more sophisticated platform than Acura. But in general take into account that Lincoln moved down-marked and now is essentially at the same level as Acura. So as sad it can be but Lincoln now competes with Acura, not with Infinity, Lexus or Cadillac

    BTW Honda is going to downgrade Acura RL because it does not sell well.
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Member Posts: 121
    Read the Car and Driver review on the Zephyr. Just about says it all. The idea that this car will get a younger set of buyers as Ford claims is a pipe dream. Acura is very much not an old mans car and never was. Lincolns are for 60 and over. And trust me I doubt anyone in my age group ( I'm 33) would consider an Acura a "downmarket" move from a Lincoln. Where I live Acura's, especially the TL are very popular and the drivers aren't 70 years old.

    The only place I've seen the Zephyr is on a showroom floor. If they would have built the concept car exactly with a better motor and the 20 inch rims it featured it would have competed. If I would pull up in a TL my friends would say wow nice car. If a did the same in a Zephyr they may think I am 63 not 33. The interior in the Lincoln is for old men with the thick ugly steering wheel and dumb looking gauges with that stupid chrome trim.

    The Acura RL is a mistake. It's too small for a flagship and a V6 ( no matter how good) doesn't cut it in a price point where buyers want a V8. Plus the 50,000 range buyers likes a more prestigious nameplate such as an E-Class Benz, and Audi A6 or an Infiniti M.
  • azazelazazel Member Posts: 10
    I'm 26 and love the Lincoln, loved the ls when it came out as well back in 2000. I have driven everything under the sun in the past month charger,300c,maxima,altima,zephyr,camry,avalon,passat,lexus is,bmw 3,benz c,acura tl,cadillac cts,infiniti g35,Audi a4, any ways you get the point just about anything I can think of with 4 doors in the mid 30's range and still find the Lincoln to be the best for me out of all of them. To me the interior build is just as important as the exterior look and the Acura just feels cheap to me on the interior. I have read so many website and consumer reviews that it makes me dizzy, but nothing is a substitute for real world experience behind the wheel of any of these cars. IDK maybe I'm just the exception to the norm not wanting the "it" car for the time being the chrysler 300, and still consider Lincoln to be a luxury model to compete with cadillac or any other foreign brand ie: bmw,benz,lexus. I don't care what my peers think about the vehicle I drive because it is all about what is best car for me, but to each his own :)
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Member Posts: 121
    26 and like the Lincoln? Well that's what Ford is trying to do, get younger buyers. I have a feeling you're going to be alone on that Island though. Ford wants the Island to be full of people like you
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Acura is an Acura. It is a FWD sedan based on plebeian Accord platform. And that’s it. It is not a luxury. Premium FWD car like Zephyr - may be, but not a luxury. I drove Acura TSX and TL. Those are not equal to German luxury cars, even to Audi. Not equal to Cadillac. I dare to say – not even equal to Lexus, and well not even to Infiniti.

    Young people choose less expensive sort of cars not exactly luxury cars because are limited on funds and are less demanding. Luxury cars are made for more mature drivers who can appreciate luxury. I mean when I was young I did not care about luxury at all. Now I care more, but still price is very important for me. My son is happy to have Ford Focus and he loves it and I find it too cheap and cramped.

    Regarding Lincoln. They chose to abandon RWD platform. But at least they chose Volvo platform. Volvo is not a luxury marque, but Volvo platforms are more solid and more premium than anything from Honda.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    "Read the Car and Driver review on the Zephyr. Just about says it all."

    I have, and as I said on the LS forum, I think the "Short Take" is poorly written, and not because I disagree with it. It's short on objective measures and long on subjective opinions of styling. Unfortunately, too many people will be swayed by someone else's opinion instead of deciding for themselves and won't give the car a chance.
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Member Posts: 121
    the problem is Lincoln (Ford) has press releases saying this car-The Zephyr- will attract younger buyers. The Acura TL is a natural competitor as they are in the same price range and the TL has the younger buyers Lincoln wants. So does the Lexus ES. Lets's face it almost anyone has younger buyers than Lincoln.

    The Zephyr in my eyes does really nothing to take a potential purchase away from my wife and I for a TL or an ES or a CTS. Why are they making one in "Dune Pearl" aka brown so some grandpa can ride around in one with a Landau top? Is it because Lincoln really knows it can't get younger buyers and doesn't want to offend it's loyal age 65 and older customer base? Maybe they will offer white walls with the "Dune Pearl" colored model to complete the youth move. Can we have pin striping on it too?

    They needed to make the concept car exterior and the 20 inch rims/tires. A more youthful interior, especially the steering wheel, and a motor producing 250 horses.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Your post is very timely.
    I saw a Zephyr yesterday with a fake convertible top and those snazzy white and gold Vogue Tyres.-- Sporty as my plaid slacks!
    Indeed, it was pinstriped and was what color?--Yep, dune pearl.
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    Aside from Tony Swan hanging onto a tenuous position at Car&Driver and his opinions notwithstanding he is at least consistent in his bias, this is what he had to say back in Dec. when he wrote about the Zephyr for the Detroit Free Press, http://tinyurl.com/akt53 his latest drivel for Car&Driver is an extension of the same theme http://tinyurl.com/hx9ga

    TONY SWAN is a senior editor at Car and Driver magazine. He was executive editor. But in Feb. things changed, in his own words "I am not retiring." I plan to remain on the Car and Driver staff as a senior editor. I was not pushed. As with John Phillips a few years back, I am merely stepping aside as exec. This move has been in the works for months.

    He was Detroit Free Press auto critic from 1993 to 2000 and remains a regular contributor
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    I saw a Zephyr yesterday with a fake convertible top and those snazzy white and gold Vogue Tyres

    Here's what I think of that: :cry:
    and what it means for Lincoln if they let that go on: :sick:
  • azazelazazel Member Posts: 10
    Yeah your probably right merk, Lincoln will probably butcher the MKS same as the Zeph to cut costs which is really sad. Lincoln could have some real contenders on their hands otherwise.
  • azazelazazel Member Posts: 10
    In that same vein if acura is not luxury because it is the sister company of Honda then neither is lexus,infiniti,cadillac,audi,or lincoln since they are just "expensive" toyota,nissan,chevy,vw,ford. The only true luxury brands would be benz & bmw. Or for the super rich rolls royce & bentley
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Member Posts: 121
    The MKS is already getting lukewarm reviews based on it's looks. Why can't Ford learn from Chrysler and the 300? Make a car that looks bold and give it the option to have a POWERFUL kick butt motor (Hemi) and the American public will look past the reliability of Japan and the Marquee of Europe and buy it. It's not like the 300 reinvented the wheel here people. It has an ok interior and will probably not be very reliable. But it looks wild and has loads of power if you want it.

    People like myself WANT to love American cars like a Lincoln Zephyr or the MKS. I loved the concept Zephyr. Loved it. It just seems to me that Ford thinks we are morons. First off the Zephyr is not a great value. With all the goodies the thing is pushing 34-35K. I don't want or need navigation because like 98% of us I drive the same places every day. Even so the Zeph clocks in at about 32-33K with a too soft ride and a motor that doesn't excite anyone. It looks pleasant but it needed to look great or at least be a love it/hate it type like the 300 is or the Charger.

    Zephyr's aren't selling because they don't LOOK like the concept car did and they don't have the POWER under the hood. The concept car, not offered in old mans's colors, with a NEW powerful fuel efficient V6 and the 20 inch rim/tire combo WOULD have gotten us into the showrooms. Instead Ford rushed it out as a dressed up Milan/Fusion and expected younger buyers to go for the Lincoln nameplate. Like I said, in it's current form there is no way I'd buy this car over a TL, ES 350 or Caddy CTS. BTW I would buy the Mercury Milan it's actually a good value, looks better to me than the Fusion.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Acura took design cues from Alfa. Young people may like Acura because it is not as stodgy as normal Japanese luxury car and not as arrogant and expensive as German cars. It has airy bright cabin almost to the point being kitsch. Someone calls it “Tokyo at night”, designed similar to Asian electronics (what I do not like). But young people like it. Also TSX has I4 engine which improves handling.

    Mature drivers prefer more restrained and tasteful interiors. BTW TSX’s/TL’s cabin is identical to Accord’s. I actually find Accord interior more tasteful. TL is a barge probably similar to Zephyr. I never drove Zephyr but can believe they tuned it to be barge-like because it is a Lincoln. Lincoln name still is associated with real expensive luxury. Now they want to downgrade it intentionally to attract younger crowd. I do not approve it because Lincoln already has the heritage. They could create a new marque for this purpose or do it with Mercure which do not have image and very uncertain heritage. Image change does not happen overnight anyway.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    "Young people may like Acura because it is not as stodgy as normal Japanese luxury car and not as arrogant and expensive as German cars. It has airy bright cabin almost to the point being kitsch. Someone calls it “Tokyo at night”, designed similar to Asian electronics (what I do not like).

    Mature drivers prefer more restrained and tasteful interiors."


    I totally agree with you here. "Kitsch" is a good word to describe it.

    "...TL is a barge probably similar to Zephyr. I never drove Zephyr but can believe they tuned it to be barge-like because it is a Lincoln."

    Actually, one of the things that turned me off of the TL (besides the dealership) was the overly harsh ride. I got the impression they were trying too hard not to be soft, like the Lexus ES330, and more European. IMO they went too far. The Zephyr had a better balance of handling and ride comfort.

    "Lincoln name still is associated with real expensive luxury.

    ...Image change does not happen overnight anyway."


    Hmmm - I don't know that the Lincoln name is still associated with real expensive luxury, except perhaps among my parent's generation. I think it lost that reputation, along with Cadillac, in the '80's. You're right, it doesn't happen overnight, and it didn't then. But it happened. Getting it back may be a longer road to walk.

    BTW - I've decided I'm glad Lincoln is changing the name of this car. "Zephyr" is too much work to type out. I keep missing the "y." ;)
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    In the last two weeks I’ve either seen four or five different Zephyrs, or three different ones several times, on the road or in a parking lot (one at Church – I parked next to it to get a better look and to show my wife, who just rolled her eyes since we parked on the far edge of the lot): a white one, a red one, and a black one. It looks very elegant in a dark color.
  • heavensoldierheavensoldier Member Posts: 61
    I don't know why people on this forum are talking about the zephyr! It must be a good car lol. Most people who talk about the car probabaly ever drove it, I'm sure I'll get the 2007 zephyr God willing. I test drove it, and it was fine to me. God Bless.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    "I don't know why people on this forum are talking about the zephyr!"

    Uh, becuase it's the Zephyr forum? ;)
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    "Actually, one of the things that turned me off of the TL (besides the dealership) was the overly harsh ride. I got the impression they were trying too hard not to be soft, like the Lexus ES330, and more European. IMO they went too far. The Zephyr had a better balance of handling and ride comfort"

    ES330 is not just a soft - it is a ridiculous! You have to try TSX. It is more agile than TL. If I were a young man I would prefer TSX. But again driving it you still feel that it is based on a cheap platform. Just like SAAB. I would never call SAAB luxury. And would not pay a price – only if deeply discounted. BTW to be honest fwd Audi A4 is also a barge, man I like TSX more! And it costs less.

    BTW are there any events that you can drive Zephyr (or Fusion)? By drive I mean drive hard without someone sitting next to you.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    But again driving it you still feel that it is based on a cheap platform.

    It was kind of strange seeing them in Australia and Great Britain sold as Honda Accords.

    ...man I like TSX more! And it costs less.

    Can't speak for the driving experience, but I like the interior design of the TSX better than the TL. If it had been larger, it woulda been a contender for my $$.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Now if the watered down Kool Aid is selling this good. Just think what it would have been if it had been full strength. If the concept was sitting in showrooms.. oh wait if they had came out with the concept it would only pass through the showroom on the way to people's garages.
  • heavensoldierheavensoldier Member Posts: 61
    Sorry I meant to say I don't know why people are talking so bad about the zephyr on this forum. God Bless.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Just messing with you. ;)
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    "It was kind of strange seeing them in Australia and Great Britain sold as Honda Accords."

    Because it is a Honda Accord! Honda Accord has a special edition for USA because in America ride should be softer, wheelbase longer, interior larger and so on. Of course there are trade-offs because you still has to sell it for competitive price.

    BTW GM sells analogue of Zephyr in Europe. It is called BTS and is based on Opel/Saab. Fusion platform is better than Opel/Saab. But quality wise BTS may better than Zephyr because otherwise there would be no hope to sell it in Germany as a luxury car.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    From what I am reading, there is little hope of selling a BTS as a luxury car in Germany anyway...
  • And even less hope of ever selling a Zephyr/MKZ there! ;)

    If Cadillac did import the BTS, it would compete directly against the MKZ, being FWD, V6 and all. The CTS really is a step up from the Zephyr.
  • Could someone on the inside PLEASE tell Bill Ford to stop doing Ford commercials??? With the limited funds they have, why spend some of them on a boring Al Gore-type harangue?

    Bill is not Lee Iacocca--and I never much cared for his ads either--except they worked (and no one compared HIM to Al Gore). Please. He's a bright and capable man, but Bill's commercials make him look like a total, total doofus.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    "The CTS really is a step up from the Zephyr."

    Why? Becuase it is RWD and has more HP? I think as many buyers who might be swayed into buying a CTS over a Zephyr for those very valid reasons might be matched by the number of buyers turned off by the CTS' styling (inside and out) and by the lackluster interior build quality. Not every buyer of near-luxury cars need RWD or gobs of HP. Many are very satisfied with good enough HP to merge into traffic, want FWD for snow/rain traction, and want a compliant, comfortable ride.

    In the interest of full disclosure, the last CTS I test drove was a 2004, and I understand from CR they've improved the interior. Once the styling gets smoothed out, and assuming they improve the materials and assembly quality, it may well indeed be a step up from the Zephyr.
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