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Comments
The MIlan was impressive I really liked it. Good fit and finish and interior quality. The Zephyr is a nice car too but such a let down from the concept.
Go take a look at the front, especially how sleek the fit of the bumper is and the entire back end and then get back to me. With the concept the Lincoln would have shared very little body panels with the Mercury or Ford versions. Should have came out as is, nothing more to say about it.
We're talking about the MkX and Aviator concept. Which is probably wrong since this is a Zephyr forum. Not sure how we got off on that tangent.
But let me take this opportunity to say again that at least 99 out of 100 prospective car buyers don't give a rats behind whether two cars share doors, rooflines or quarter panels.
Keep saying that as sales continue to either decline or not astound. I mean to a certain extent I agree with you but the luxury market isn't that big and buyers around the 30K market jave a MULTITUDE of products to choose from and have been known to do more research and be more particular. A Fusion, A Milan, who cares. A Zephyr, hold on a second. Now we have to deal with Toyota saying publicly that the ES and Camry don't share any body panels, not one. You have GM saying that about the Escalade, Yukon, and Tahoe. Who are they taking shots at? The Blue Oval. When you can buy a 3 Series, exclusivity starts to matter and the fact that much of your car looks like a Ford may have a significant affect on your buying purchase.
But like I said, I agree with you to some degree. The non sharing of body panels is only a slight advantage the concept had on the production model. The MAJOR advantage was the concept was so much better and daring looking. It had a better engine, it had a more unique and Lincoln design, it was ready to take on and take down a 3 Series.
How is this a "better engine"?
Power comes from a more potent version of Ford’s dual-overhead-cam 3.0-liter Duratec V-6, which drives the front wheels through a six-speed-automatic transmission. Lincoln did not give a horsepower figure.
I agree the concept is a better looking car and I'm sure some of the changes were simply cost cutting. I'd like to wait and see the 2007 model in person before passing final judgement - the pictures don't look all that different but Ford says they had to rush the 2006 model and make compromises in design to meet the schedule.
I think Fields is going to change this conservative approach that Ford has been using recently as he did with Mazda. By this fall they'll have all the major new vehicles done with the exception of the 2 new Lincoln sedans, so they should be able to focus on upgrading the existing models.
(it's funny how people's preferences differ - I'm below 30 but probably couldn't care less about the engine change and would really like to see the "minor convenience features" taken care of - if this wasn't a first-time model & it had those features I'd probably be driving one now...)
FWIW that was one of my most favorite features and I'd be glad to have them back. The only annoying part was the wipers would occasionally do a single dry swipe when you started the car. Nothing like driving down the highway doing 60 and having a truck spray water all over your windshield unexpectedly and having the wipers come on full tilt within a fraction of a second.
The aux input will be there for 2007 also. Not sure about bluetooth.
I worry for Ford. Indeed the Edge will be out this fall but the pricing seems like it will be off. THe Aviator (MDX) does not give a significant reason why to buy it over the Edge and let us not forget that the market is not holding still. Look at the Saturn Outlook, GM Arcadia, and Buick Enclave. It is going to get real hard if the Edge and MDX aren't priced competitively and Ford has made no secret that it does not know what pricing will be.
The Impala is miles better than a 500 and we won't even talk about what the Escalade is going to do to the Navi with 100 more hp and better gas mileage to boot.
Lincoln has good intentions but those pave the way to hell. Their concepts are genuinely beautiful i.e. Aviator, Zephyr, MKS, but production normally falls far shorter. Look at what Buick is doing. They saw the reacton to the Enclave and are bringing the SUV out pretty much the same as the concept.
Care to elaborate?
Agree on MKS. MKS will be based on more sophisticated platform than Acura. But in general take into account that Lincoln moved down-marked and now is essentially at the same level as Acura. So as sad it can be but Lincoln now competes with Acura, not with Infinity, Lexus or Cadillac
BTW Honda is going to downgrade Acura RL because it does not sell well.
The only place I've seen the Zephyr is on a showroom floor. If they would have built the concept car exactly with a better motor and the 20 inch rims it featured it would have competed. If I would pull up in a TL my friends would say wow nice car. If a did the same in a Zephyr they may think I am 63 not 33. The interior in the Lincoln is for old men with the thick ugly steering wheel and dumb looking gauges with that stupid chrome trim.
The Acura RL is a mistake. It's too small for a flagship and a V6 ( no matter how good) doesn't cut it in a price point where buyers want a V8. Plus the 50,000 range buyers likes a more prestigious nameplate such as an E-Class Benz, and Audi A6 or an Infiniti M.
Young people choose less expensive sort of cars not exactly luxury cars because are limited on funds and are less demanding. Luxury cars are made for more mature drivers who can appreciate luxury. I mean when I was young I did not care about luxury at all. Now I care more, but still price is very important for me. My son is happy to have Ford Focus and he loves it and I find it too cheap and cramped.
Regarding Lincoln. They chose to abandon RWD platform. But at least they chose Volvo platform. Volvo is not a luxury marque, but Volvo platforms are more solid and more premium than anything from Honda.
I have, and as I said on the LS forum, I think the "Short Take" is poorly written, and not because I disagree with it. It's short on objective measures and long on subjective opinions of styling. Unfortunately, too many people will be swayed by someone else's opinion instead of deciding for themselves and won't give the car a chance.
The Zephyr in my eyes does really nothing to take a potential purchase away from my wife and I for a TL or an ES or a CTS. Why are they making one in "Dune Pearl" aka brown so some grandpa can ride around in one with a Landau top? Is it because Lincoln really knows it can't get younger buyers and doesn't want to offend it's loyal age 65 and older customer base? Maybe they will offer white walls with the "Dune Pearl" colored model to complete the youth move. Can we have pin striping on it too?
They needed to make the concept car exterior and the 20 inch rims/tires. A more youthful interior, especially the steering wheel, and a motor producing 250 horses.
I saw a Zephyr yesterday with a fake convertible top and those snazzy white and gold Vogue Tyres.-- Sporty as my plaid slacks!
Indeed, it was pinstriped and was what color?--Yep, dune pearl.
TONY SWAN is a senior editor at Car and Driver magazine. He was executive editor. But in Feb. things changed, in his own words "I am not retiring." I plan to remain on the Car and Driver staff as a senior editor. I was not pushed. As with John Phillips a few years back, I am merely stepping aside as exec. This move has been in the works for months.
He was Detroit Free Press auto critic from 1993 to 2000 and remains a regular contributor
Here's what I think of that:
and what it means for Lincoln if they let that go on: :sick:
People like myself WANT to love American cars like a Lincoln Zephyr or the MKS. I loved the concept Zephyr. Loved it. It just seems to me that Ford thinks we are morons. First off the Zephyr is not a great value. With all the goodies the thing is pushing 34-35K. I don't want or need navigation because like 98% of us I drive the same places every day. Even so the Zeph clocks in at about 32-33K with a too soft ride and a motor that doesn't excite anyone. It looks pleasant but it needed to look great or at least be a love it/hate it type like the 300 is or the Charger.
Zephyr's aren't selling because they don't LOOK like the concept car did and they don't have the POWER under the hood. The concept car, not offered in old mans's colors, with a NEW powerful fuel efficient V6 and the 20 inch rim/tire combo WOULD have gotten us into the showrooms. Instead Ford rushed it out as a dressed up Milan/Fusion and expected younger buyers to go for the Lincoln nameplate. Like I said, in it's current form there is no way I'd buy this car over a TL, ES 350 or Caddy CTS. BTW I would buy the Mercury Milan it's actually a good value, looks better to me than the Fusion.
http://www.fusionunleashed.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=390
Mature drivers prefer more restrained and tasteful interiors. BTW TSX’s/TL’s cabin is identical to Accord’s. I actually find Accord interior more tasteful. TL is a barge probably similar to Zephyr. I never drove Zephyr but can believe they tuned it to be barge-like because it is a Lincoln. Lincoln name still is associated with real expensive luxury. Now they want to downgrade it intentionally to attract younger crowd. I do not approve it because Lincoln already has the heritage. They could create a new marque for this purpose or do it with Mercure which do not have image and very uncertain heritage. Image change does not happen overnight anyway.
Mature drivers prefer more restrained and tasteful interiors."
I totally agree with you here. "Kitsch" is a good word to describe it.
"...TL is a barge probably similar to Zephyr. I never drove Zephyr but can believe they tuned it to be barge-like because it is a Lincoln."
Actually, one of the things that turned me off of the TL (besides the dealership) was the overly harsh ride. I got the impression they were trying too hard not to be soft, like the Lexus ES330, and more European. IMO they went too far. The Zephyr had a better balance of handling and ride comfort.
"Lincoln name still is associated with real expensive luxury.
...Image change does not happen overnight anyway."
Hmmm - I don't know that the Lincoln name is still associated with real expensive luxury, except perhaps among my parent's generation. I think it lost that reputation, along with Cadillac, in the '80's. You're right, it doesn't happen overnight, and it didn't then. But it happened. Getting it back may be a longer road to walk.
BTW - I've decided I'm glad Lincoln is changing the name of this car. "Zephyr" is too much work to type out. I keep missing the "y."
Uh, becuase it's the Zephyr forum?
ES330 is not just a soft - it is a ridiculous! You have to try TSX. It is more agile than TL. If I were a young man I would prefer TSX. But again driving it you still feel that it is based on a cheap platform. Just like SAAB. I would never call SAAB luxury. And would not pay a price – only if deeply discounted. BTW to be honest fwd Audi A4 is also a barge, man I like TSX more! And it costs less.
BTW are there any events that you can drive Zephyr (or Fusion)? By drive I mean drive hard without someone sitting next to you.
It was kind of strange seeing them in Australia and Great Britain sold as Honda Accords.
...man I like TSX more! And it costs less.
Can't speak for the driving experience, but I like the interior design of the TSX better than the TL. If it had been larger, it woulda been a contender for my $$.
Because it is a Honda Accord! Honda Accord has a special edition for USA because in America ride should be softer, wheelbase longer, interior larger and so on. Of course there are trade-offs because you still has to sell it for competitive price.
BTW GM sells analogue of Zephyr in Europe. It is called BTS and is based on Opel/Saab. Fusion platform is better than Opel/Saab. But quality wise BTS may better than Zephyr because otherwise there would be no hope to sell it in Germany as a luxury car.
If Cadillac did import the BTS, it would compete directly against the MKZ, being FWD, V6 and all. The CTS really is a step up from the Zephyr.
Bill is not Lee Iacocca--and I never much cared for his ads either--except they worked (and no one compared HIM to Al Gore). Please. He's a bright and capable man, but Bill's commercials make him look like a total, total doofus.
Why? Becuase it is RWD and has more HP? I think as many buyers who might be swayed into buying a CTS over a Zephyr for those very valid reasons might be matched by the number of buyers turned off by the CTS' styling (inside and out) and by the lackluster interior build quality. Not every buyer of near-luxury cars need RWD or gobs of HP. Many are very satisfied with good enough HP to merge into traffic, want FWD for snow/rain traction, and want a compliant, comfortable ride.
In the interest of full disclosure, the last CTS I test drove was a 2004, and I understand from CR they've improved the interior. Once the styling gets smoothed out, and assuming they improve the materials and assembly quality, it may well indeed be a step up from the Zephyr.