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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    "With the right re-style and upgrades, the LS could have moved upmarket where it would have had more prospects for making a profit."

    Ford did. If you noticed the pricing on the LS the past 2 years, it has gone up quite a bit in comparison to the loaded $41K pricetag when it debuted. My '05 came in at $53K...Obviously, I paid less than half. And to bring in the Zephyr in '06, Lincoln made the LS only available on V8, and killed the V6.

    "My guess is they'll move Zephyr production to wherever they're making the MkX and Edge freeing up more production for Fusions/Milans and allowing more MkZ production"

    Good guess, although let me toss another one your way. Zephyr/MKZ over to AutoAlliance, along with the Mustang and Mazda6. Well, new '08 Mazda6 that is.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Care to drop in the Mark LT thread?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I did, nothing happening there though.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    What happened to the freshened Mark LT they said would be unveiled at the NY Auto show?
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Understated and bland are two different things. The 1961-69 Continentals may have been understated, but few saw them as bland. Furthermore, time has been kind to the design. On the other hand, time will find the 500 as forgettable in 20 years as it is today.


    Agreed on the first part. The '61 Continentals were pretty much hailed as a welcome change from the excess at Cadillac.

    On the other hand, I for one happen to like the 500's design much better than the Chrysler 300, just because it is bland and doesn't get tiresome to look at. If only it had more power. And, IMO, my LS is classically understated, not bland.

    Now, back to Zephyr....
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I do not know much of what occured with the NY Auto Show, although I did here something in relation to that issue.
  • heavensoldierheavensoldier Member Posts: 61
    I was wondering how many people do you think the lincoln zephyr can fit? Can it fit 5 people in the car comfortably, to anyone to owns the zephyr. Thanks and God Bless.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Depends on how big they are and for how long. There is room for 5 for short trips - no problem. Longer trips are probably ok unless it's 3 full size adults. That might be a bit tight.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    2 adults and a teen fit fine in the rear seat. 2 in the back with the cup holder folded down in the middle would be better for a long haul. It has a huge trunk so plenty of space there. I am starting to see more and more of them on the road. No problems with mind as I approach the 5k mark. I use to own the 300m, I was over looking at their threads and all they are talking about over there are mechanical problems with the 300m. My Zephyr is doing just fine! :shades:
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    http://www.emotionreports.com/downloads/pdfs/PRLINCOLNZEPHYRAWARD012806.pdf

    :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    You are starting to see more and more of them on the road?? I am a car oriented guy living in an urban area, and I have seen exactly zero that were not on dealers' lots.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    And of course it is the concept car, not the real Zephyr, that is used for the illustration.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    'The LS was just the first part of a bigger plan for Lincoln that included a 3 series and 7 series competitor plus European exports. Then the Firestone fiasco hit, Lincoln's budget got cut by 70% overnight which killed the other new vehicles. This drove up the cost of the DEW98 platform even higher with only 1 Lincoln vehicle using it. Then they were kicked out of the PAG and export plans were killed. When they discontinued the Continental the LS was forced to fill that void in the dealer lineup which led to even further price reductions, ensuring the LS was losing money on every sale. THAT's when they stopped advertising it.

    The sad part is they had at least a 2 year headstart on Cadillac back then. The LS was tested on the Ring way before the CTS.

    Blame Firestone, lawyers and stupid SUV drivers."

    Exactly right, akirby - and it's a real shame. If Lincoln would have stayed on course, like Nasser planned (the possibly one thing he did right at Ford), I'd probably be driving the 7-series version today, instead of a Lexus.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    And to follow up on the generous lease incentives...

    Our local dealers are advertising new Zephyrs for $25,399 before any dickering. This includes rebate, FMCC rebate, discount, etc. That's $4,300 right there for an allegedly hot product in short supply.

    Of course that discount pales in comparison to the TC discount: the MSRP is listed at $43,000 and the sale price as $28,995. MSRP joke, I'd say. With new Grand Marquis' going for less than $16,000 and Mariners a bit more than that, is it any wonder Lincoln Mercury (and Ford) is not making any money?

    It's a bad precedent that the Zephyr is setting for the better equipped 2007 MKZ. With some exceptions of course, most people are going to demand big discounts as expected, or go elsewhere
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Well, I consider myself a car-oriented guy living in an urban area, and I've seen at least 4 distinct Zephyrs on the road in the last two months. It's taken a while to see any not on the lot, though. 4's not many, but at least it's something.
  • caliddcalidd Member Posts: 60
    Anyone know what the gas mileage will be on the 3.5 engine in the 2007 MKz? Is mpg likely to drop substantially?

    Also, how will the increased HP (not AWD, just increased HP) on the 2007 MKz affect MSRP of the MKz as compared to the 2006 Zephyr?
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    FWIW - The following is from Automotive News 4/24/06, the article requires subscription so I don't know any more than this..

    Renamed Zephyr will get higher sticker
    Lincoln's entry-level model will top $30,000
    Lincoln plans to raise the price of its entry-level sedan when it renames it the MKZ for the 2007 model year. That car, which debuted as the Zephyr for the 2006 model year, is being renamed this fall to align with Lincoln's new alphabetic naming scheme. story Published: 4/24/06 6:00 AM [SUB][$]
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Unless they include other current options as standard items I wouldn't expect the base price to rise more than a few hundred dollars. Fuel mileage should be very close if not identical to the current model.
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    Also, how will the increased HP (not AWD, just increased HP) on the 2007 MKz affect MSRP of the MKz as compared to the 2006 Zephyr?

    The new 3.5L Duratec will improve mileage over the present engine by 7% which is very significant, particularly in view of the substantial increase in power:

    http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_lincoln_zephyr_duratec_2/index.html
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    There is NO direct comparison to the Duratec 3.0 in that article. And the "as much as" language could also mean there would be 0.00001% improvement...or none at all.
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    There is NO direct comparison to the Duratec 3.0 in that article. And the "as much as" language could also mean there would be 0.00001% improvement...or none at all.

    Utter rubbish. The 3.5 is directly compared to "the '06 Zephyr [which] is powered by the outdated 3.0L Duratec that generates 221 hp." The article goes on to state, "The Lima plant, which builds the 3.0L Duratec V-6, will have capacity to turn out 325,000 3.5L engines annually when it begins production later this year.

    The Duratec 35 is projected by Ford to power one in five of the company's North American vehicles by the end of the decade. Mated to the 6-speed automatic transaxle, the combination is expected to improve fuel economy as much as 7%."

    If that's not a direct comparison, I don't know what is.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    That's written in marketing speak. The "as much as" and the comparison to what vehicle configuration both leave room for this "comparison" to be to the least efficient existing vehicle drivetrain the new engine AND transmission replace....there is no direct comparison to the 3.0 engine with the SAME transmission, nor is it even clear the comparison with the 7 percent figure is referring to the 3.0 at all.
  • caliddcalidd Member Posts: 60
    When is the 2007 MKz expected to hit showrooms?

    And when can we expect bigger savings on the 2006 Zephyr in anticipation of the arrival of the 007's?
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    there is no direct comparison to the 3.0 engine with the SAME transmission

    Then what, pray tell, is this statement referring to if it is not the present 3.0L and 6-speed transmission?

    "The Duratec 35 is projected by Ford to power one in five of the company's North American vehicles by the end of the decade. Mated to the 6-speed automatic transaxle, the combination is expected to improve fuel economy as much as 7%."

    It is patently obvious that the comparison is most certainly to the 3.0L (present) engine with the present 6-speed automatic transmission and that the new combination of 3.5L with the present 6-speed automatic transmission will result in 7% greater fuel efficiency.

    Why must some of you constantly berate the car and attempt to attach negative spin to every facet of it? Do you just hate North American automotive products? Do you think the only good products come out of Germany and Japan? Is it any wonder the U.S. has a progressively crippling trade deficit?!
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    "Why must some of you constantly berate the car and attempt to attach negative spin to every facet of it? Do you just hate North American automotive products? Do you think the only good products come out of Germany and Japan? Is it any wonder the U.S. has a progressively crippling trade deficit?! "

    I have been thinking the same thoughts. What is up with these folks just tearing about ever spec. Can we just enjoy the car and somewhere in the back of our mind root for the home team just a little. I own the Zephyr and love it. The car is classy looking, comfortable, the sounds system is off-the-hook, regular gas, enough power for me, rides smooth and was 2k less than the 2000 Chyrsler 300m I purchased 6 years ago. BTW: I owned a Mercedes and it stayed in the shop so much that I got rid of it!
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    bigt, I think that there are just some folks who are so biased against every North American product that they have lost the ability to be objective. Basically, they are sad evidence of the success of the Japanese and German automotive Madison Avenue hype machine.

    Granted, some of the Japanese and German offerings are superb, not all, and they are most certainly not without their own particular warts. Generally, the Japanese cars are bland although for the most part reliable while the German offerings are good performers but quite unreliable and prone to high and frequent service costs.

    The Zephyr/MKZ is an excellent car by any standard and will become even more competitive with the advent of the 3.5L engine. It is an unusual combination of cachet, quality, performance, refinement and value.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Excellent thoughts, priggly and bigt. Thanks for saying it.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Excellent thoughts? Perhaps, but in this case misplaced. I currently own an AWD Five Hundred SEL. With the 3.0 Duratec. Am trading for the 3.5 as soon as it is available.

    Why must others ascribe to those who point out marketing speak motives they do NOT possess? Well?
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Actually, I was mainly referring to the "let's root for the home team" attitude in the two posts just prior to mine and didn't intend to weigh in on the earlier discussions, analyze marketing speak, ascribe motives to anyone, or anything like that. Sorry if it sounded like it.

    I just get tired of so many in the automotive press waxing rapturous over Japanese and German cars, as if American cars are pieces of junk.

    As for the 500, I've always thought it a shame Ford didn't equip the 500 with a stronger engine. I'll agree with the nay sayers that the styling isn't eye catching, but it is "nice" and it's eminently more practical, likely safer and more reliable, than the other big American sedan it's always named against, the Chrysler 300C. Not having a stronger engine just gave the pundits one more thing to carp on.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    2oo7 Lincoln MKZ Preview:

    http://carreviewsonline.auto123.com/en/info/roadtest/view.spy?make=Lincoln&artid- =60587
  • navigator89navigator89 Member Posts: 1,080
    Link

    A bit of a disappointment that prices are going up, but totally expectable due to the new engine and AWD.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Uh oh.
    That story said:
    "Ford currently discounts each Zephyr it sells by an average of $4,342"

    I hope no one flips out.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    That's only because of the lease subsidies and it's terribly misleading. If you purchase a zephyr right now you'll get $1K in rebates, not $4K.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Wrong. Our local dealers are giving up to $4300 in rebates/discounts, listed in a line in the newspaper ads, off the MSRP before any dealing is started.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Discounts off MSRP are NOT incentives. Incentives come from the factory and reduce the cost of the vehicle. Discounts off MSRP simply reduce the amount of dealer profit. Apples and oranges.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Not so. Often those discounts are supported by the manufacturer. In any event, more than $1,000 of the advertised discounts are called rebates. And it certainly fits with news reports of average per car incentives.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    If the discount comes from the manufacturer, that's an incentive because it reduces the amount of profit the mfr makes. That's different from a dealer selling a car for $500 over invoice. Ford makes the same profit no matter what the dealer actually charges for it.

    If I buy a vehicle on X plan, the dealer is required to give me any and all incentives including dealer cash and customer rebates. The dealer is not allowed to keep anything that reduces their cost for the vehicle.

    The current X plan incentives for the Zephyr are $500 cash OR low financing, plus another $500 from Ford Credit. There is no other incentive from Ford if you're purchasing a Zephyr. There is no additional dealer cash. The $4K incentives comes from the heavily subsidized lease deals.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    Sounds good. It is a good looking car. 3.5L will make it competitive. AWD is a plus, though FWD bias is not good, intelligent or not. >$2000 price increase is not good. As someone said, why not keep price and ditch the incentives? ALso, it is my firm belief still that the alphabet-soup name changes is a dumb idea and a waste of money. Here they have a sales winner and they're throwing away the name and must remarket a new name. Stoopid.

    I saw another Zephyr on the road recently and noticed for the first time the "thin horizontal reflector lamps within the lower fascia". Kinda cool I thought. Then I saw a Mazda 6 and whattyaknow? - same reflectors on its bumper. No differentiation there.

    Finally, the thing that keeps the Z from being a real car and not another blue-hair set Lincoln - the pathetic 'D-L' gear selector. Few people who want anything other than a comfortable appliance will buy the Z with that granny-mode shifter. Too bad, the rest of the package is fairly decent.">
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    ...the pathetic 'D-L' gear selector. Few people who want anything other than a comfortable appliance will buy the Z with that granny-mode shifter.

    Interesting observation there. I must be one of those who superficially at least only want a comfortable appliance, because I can't remember the last time I shifted my LS out of "D." For daily driving I just want to put the car in Drive and go. If I want to shift, and many days I miss the interaction of a manual, I'd have bought a stick. Are there any studies of people w/ a manumatic actually using the shift feature with any regularity? Frankly, I don't get them. Where's the fun of shifting w/o the heel-toe coordination of the clutch?

    Back to the MKZ, however, seeing the D-L gear selector when I test drove the car was disappointing. I suppose I want the illusion of some control by having more than "D-L," and I suspect the casual shopper might think it's a weird setup, walking away with some nagging thought like "something just didn't look right, but I can't put my finger on it."
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    The 1965 Buick Skylark with a Powerglide that I had in high school only had "D" and "L" and by golly if it was good enough then, it's good enough now!
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    AWD will be optional on the MkZ, not standard.
  • caliddcalidd Member Posts: 60
    Does the projected $2000 price increase include the optional AWD? If it does, you'd essentially be paying extra for that option. If it does not, whoa, what a jump!
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Based on the article I'd say yes - the $2K price jump included both the 3.5L engine and AWD.

    But this is all sheer speculation until the prices are actually published.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    With rebates and incentives where they are, I'd say the new engine and the AWD should be covered at the same price. For the cost of a 3 Series, A new G35, A Mer C-Class, or very close to a TL, I'd take one of those over the Zephyr. I think in the BASE 27 - loaded 35K market the Zephyr would be the king. As usual Lincoln is going to price itself out of the market like it did with the old Aviator. At least at that time they had the Lincoln name to ride on. They don't have such a benefit anymore. THey need to offer serious product. Have you seen the new 2008 CTS? I almost wet my pants. If that CTS starts anywhere near the 30K mark which the current one does, the market better brace for a shift.
  • 06zephyr06zephyr Member Posts: 32
    I dont undestand what the problem is with with D/L shifter.... When was the last time you shifted your automatic...Am i missing something here?
    The car rides smooth...the gears shift automatically very smoothly...and it handles very well...those that have it have rated it a 9.7...why do those that dont own it seem to always be bashing it..i dont understand that...seems to me that id get a better view of the car from someone that owns it then from someone that doesnt because it doesnt have an option that that individual likes..... :confuse:
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Excuse me, but we're talking a base price of $32K with AWD. The base price of a 330xi (AWD, smaller car, smaller engine) is $39K. An Infiniti G35x (AWD, 15 more hp) has a base price of $34K. A C350 AWD sedan starts at $40K. Base price on a 2WD TL is $34K although that is fully loaded.

    Sounds very competitive to me. I don't see the problem.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    "I dont undestand what the problem is with with D/L shifter.... "

    For some people it won't be a problem. For others, the loss of control over gearing of the vehicle will be a problem. I am in that group. Since 2001 I've been driving an LS with a 5Speed manual. I want the control. Had I bought an automatic, it would have been the select shift version. IMHO, Ford has severely compromised these vehicles by giving them only a choice of D and L, where L means different things at different times apparently. I would hazard a guess that ALL of the competition offers a Select-shift type transmission, though I only know for sure that the Infiniti G35 does.

    For me, it's an unacceptable compromise, like the prop-rod hood only more important.
  • 06zephyr06zephyr Member Posts: 32
    I would hazard a guess that ALL of the competition offers a Select-shift type transmission, though I only know for sure that the Infiniti G35 does.
    I would love to see the stats on how many people select a car with "select-shift transmission" as opposed to one with out and then see how many got for the "CONTROL'you speak about or just because it is a fad. I seriously doubt that the typical driver buys the "select shift or paddle shift' with the idea of control.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    "I seriously doubt that the typical driver buys the "select shift or paddle shift' with the idea of control. "

    THen why would they buy it? And in many cases, it's standard rather than an option. I know people who figured out how to replace their LS shifters with the select shift and these already had the usual "D-2-1" or D-3-2-1 can't recall which.

    Furthermore, I'm sorry but this D-L business is a huge step backward. WHat is the advantage of NOT being able to control your car's gearing? Even in the 60's with 3-speed automatics they all but the bare bones cheapest allowed you to select D or 2 or 1. Now here we have a 6-speed transmission but all the driver can say is D or something less than D, called L and no one but the cars computer knows what gear will actually be selected. I think the Mazda 6 also has this D-L BS but at least you can get the Mazda with the 3.0 V6 and a manual tranny.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Take a deep breath, George.

    The D-L shifter was a leftover from the fact that initially both the D3 and CD3 cars were only going to have a CVT. When they decided to change to a conventional transmission they decided not to change the shifter. Not sure if it was a goof or cost cutting or something else, but I'm sure it will be fixed for the 2008 models.

    Having gone from a SelectShift equipped LS to a D-L equipped Fusion I think I'm qualified to make a comparison. The last 2 years I owned the LS I rarely took it out of D. Having driven the Fusion for 6 months I can't say I've missed not having selectshift. Now don't get me wrong - I enjoyed the heck out of it the first 4 years on my LS. And if it was an available option on a car I was buying I'd certainly opt for it. But for me it wasn't a deal breaker. Then again I'm planning to get a mustang with a stick to drive on weekends.

    If you remember SelectShift was not available on the Tbird when it first came out and it was added later. It will be there.
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