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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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    johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Hmmm.

    Xr4Ti?

    Remember what a smashing success that was? Seems to me that was also the product of marketers at The Ford Motor Company. Sigh.
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    bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    You can pick up one of those Xr4Ti's for 8k! :)

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-XR4Ti-UNIQUE-Merkur-XR4Ti-1985-conver- tible_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6472QQihZ019QQitemZ290016952728QQrdZ1
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    ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    How do you define "full size" pertaining to the MKS. I mean, the current Taurus straddled between mid-size, is almost full-size. Even in some rental car agencies it was classified as fullsize. The MKS IS fullsize. Many of it's dimensions will be bigger than that of the TC. And most importantly, useable dimensions. Case in point, the TC/GM/CV have a large trunk, yet it's unusual shape doesn't let you maximize it's use. The exterior won't be as large as that of the TC, but it's a bit higher and wider.

    Ford has given specific timing on the demise of certain vehicles. Taurus was to have died over a year ago...just finished production recently. THe Essex engines were to have been replaced 2 years ago...they are still being produced. Etc. Lets not forget if the demand is there and Wixom closes, the tools/dies/part can be used at the same plant building CV/GM. And even then, enough TC's will be built over, if the MKS introduction is pushed back a bit.

    Navicross was killed because it was deemed not sufficiently profittable, and soon after the decision to allow Jaguar soul use of DEW98 platform made it stillborn.

    I agree, the Markie Mark nomeclature is a bit rediculous. But it's more about brand identity. If you say "I Have a Zephyr", people can't grasp it, don't have a clue. If you say "I have a Lincoln MKZ", then people know who makes it... it's the LINCOLN part that Ford wants people to say. I can somewhat get used to that, it's the "Mark" thing. Mark this, Mark that, Mark my words...

    The above planned vehicles willl be profittable, and while each one is not expected to sell at 100K+ volumes, it'll be profittable in low volumes which is the key point. Yes, 1999 was a steller year for Lincoln sales considering having maybe 3 products at that time. Considering so many went to fleet sales, doesn't do well for various other factors such as resale value, perception, etc.

    Previously the thought was "We have an idle factory, we need to build 50K units to make everyone work, GO !" and many things were compromised along the way that hurt Ford. The key is profittable vehicles at lower volumes that people actually want, while offering more choices...not innundating the marketplace with vehicles just to not have a factory sit idle.
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    driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    "NO ONE is going to figure out what and MKS is vs. an MKX UNLESS they are around for MANY years."

    Waht about CTS, STS, and DTS. There doesn't seem to be a problem there and Cadi just made the change. I think we can be sorry the names are gone but that doesn't mean the strategy won't work because there are so many examples of it working. RDX, MDX comes to mind.
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    johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Ask the average luxury car buyer who even makes RDX, MDX. I doubt ten percent of them could even tell you. And if they don't know, they very likely won't consider your brand.
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    driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Since the MDX has been one of Acura's shining stars since its introduction, I don't think the facts support your theory. Or dare I bring the RX into this convo which has led luxury SUV sales for forever and a day. Fact is, though we may not like the names, that does not make it a bad business strategy. I believe those in the market for the vehicles mentioned, definitely know what makes they are from.
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    johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Really? I don't think the RX branding story is a legend. Or, perhaps, it is.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    He's talking about the Lexus RX330 crossover, not the Acura RL sedan. I assume that's what you meant by the legend comment.
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    exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    the MKS interior will NOT look liekt he concept. the thing looks old enough to be in your great grandpa's first car.

    They need to to look fresh and modern. Electrolumiescent gages, blue lighting, aluminum mixed with wood (different shades should be available) and it must be well executed. The one thig i dislike about the MKZ (other than the made in mexico part) is the interrior looks to be too much of an old mans land.

    They can fix this with the MKS without drastically departing fromthe style. For example, the 2007 navi interrior is hurling over the toilet on new years discusting, but the 2006, with much the same style looks fresher and better. The same can be done for the MKS.

    Like the MKZ, the exterrior of the MKS is pretty spot on. They could put chrome around the side lincoln symbol, and make it light up, but otherwise its OK. The interrior sucks, and no amount of good materials will help the bad design.
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    bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I thought they brought in an outside designer to fine tune the MKZ interior. I agree with you that some chrome, pin lights, and some different color lights could really make the car stand out. I just took a look at the 2007 model lineup and I cannot say that anything really knocks my socks off (all manufactures) except the stuff I really cannot afford. I am surprised at the fuel mileage (or lack of) in the 2007's across the board. Where are all the hybrids?
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    bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I like the Zephyr interior and plan on getting the MKZ if I see one with everything I want in it. I purchased a base model for 28.5k. I have decided now that I want the Nav, THX, and Sunroof.
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    bach63bach63 Member Posts: 18
    Has anyone heard if the MKZ is going to have some form of stability control? Seems to me that was an obvious omission on the Zephyr, considering it is available on most of it's competitors. I would like to consider the MKZ in my new car search, but lack of stability control would probably take it out of the running.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    No, it's not available. It's nice to have but I don't understand why it's a deal breaker. It wasn't even available up until a few years ago and it's only going to help if you take a corner too fast or hit an unexpected slick spot on a curve. Makes more sense on a 400 hp RWD sports car or a rollover prone SUV but not so much on a 263 hp FWD/AWD luxury sedan.
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    bach63bach63 Member Posts: 18
    Well, living in Colorado, with plenty of slick roads, it is important to me. I was hoping that if Honda could offer it on an Accord, and Saturn could make it standard on the Aura, that Lincoln might see fit to add it when they made the other upgrades (3.5L, AWD). (It has been available more than a few years; my '98 Passat has it.) Well, sorry to hear it, but thanks for the info!
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I don't understand why they don't offer it, either.
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    displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    I've never had it on a car so don't know what I'm missing and probably won't really care if it's there or not on my next car. However, that being said, I agree it's a big mistake not to at least make it available. One of the reasons to buy a luxury or near-luxury vehicle is that the best and most advanced engineering is usually tried there first, then it trickles down to more plebian cars. Not putting it in the MKZ will only cheapen the perception of Lincoln in the public eye.
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    bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    When you are spending in the 30-40k range it starts to get down to feature comparisions. I agree with you in that I could care less if the car has it. I am not driving in the snow around mountain curves. But if I lived around Denver it would be high on my list. I thought AWD took care of must issues. Just shows how little I know about it.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    AWD is great, but it doesn't react like stability control if you get into trouble. The most sophisticated systems can can brake or accelerate individual wheels to counteract any skidding or rolling conditions. Of course they can do only so much! A lot of people seem under the impression that AWD/4WD makes them invulnerable. Actually, it does little the the way of helping you stop in slipery conditions. And without limited slip diff, you can potentially still not be able to go if both a front and back wheel are spinning.

    The scary part of all this for me is that too many unskilled drivers are already speeding around. Adding all these systems makes if even more likely that they will do more dumb things and get away with it...until one day they don't. People often are retarded about getting going after a stop (witness how long it takes a whole line of cars to start moving when the light turns green). But these same people, once they get moving, often drive too fast for conditions, and go through lights that have already turned red. They slow down on curves that could be easily taken at speed, but going into tight ones too fast. And the doofuses on cell phones--talk about erratic driving of which they have no awarenes. But enough of that. Wrong thread.

    So, how long before the MKZ will get a full or at least a significant makeover? As it is now, it is too boring for me!
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    heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    Well, the LS is a much better car and it has AdvanceTrak as an option. I would do that if I were buying.

    The Z is a Mexican-made Mazda 6. Does the Mazda 6 have stability control?
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    displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Better get that LS now, though.

    As for the Mazda6, according to the Mazdausa.com website the MazdaSpeed6 does not have stability control; it does have AWD and traction control.
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    revrasrevras Member Posts: 63
    I may have missed this in the previous posts but is there a firm launch date for the MKZ yet? The addition of the awd and needed HP make waiting a worthwhile option to me.
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    BeamerManBeamerMan Member Posts: 64
    Listen fellows I have and do own BMW,s and stability trac is a crock. If I recklessly drive at 80 mph around hairpin curves then yes I might need it. Yes you are right some of these yahoos think because they have this stuff it makes them invunerable to accidents. Well as an insurance adjuster I can tell you it happens all the time. Believe it or not the Mustangs have no stabili-trac and they can't keep them in stock. I for one am getting a MKZ, I like the car and I am ready for a softer ride and not paying overpriced fees for these so called exotic German cars. Hey I also drove for 20 years without anti-locks and did just fine. Beamerman(Wayne) from Maryland.
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    displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    All the technology in the world can't overcome physics and the idiots who drive as if it will.

    Re overpriced fees, I'm pleased with the cost of Lincoln ownership versus Volvo ownership. Those Swedes get expensive once they hit 100,000 miles!
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    bach63bach63 Member Posts: 18
    Hey I also drove for 20 years without anti-locks and did just fine

    Yea, I drove without a seat belt and airbags for a long time, too. I'll take any safety feature I can get, when it's my wife and daughter in the car. You are entitled to your opinion about stability control, but your own industry (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety) seems to think it's a pretty good idea:

    A new study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety indicates that crash deaths on American roads could be reduced by one third if all vehicles were equipped with the Electronic Stability Control.

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/06/09/iihs_esc/index.html

    I am disappointed that the MKZ is not going to have it, but there are a lot of other good cars out there to choose from that do.
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    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    If Ford won't offer stability control in the $30k Mark-Z, you can buy two $15k Scions (one for each foot) since they come with it as standard.
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    BeamerManBeamerMan Member Posts: 64
    Hi there. listen to me you would be better off to stop talking on the cell when driving, don't eat when driving and in general paying attention to the road. You have bought into stabili track way too much. It is also impossible to watch it work unless you put your life in jeopardy. Once again if I had a Mustang GT 500 I woould want it if I was going to race of the track. I handle justm as many total losses on cars with it as without.
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    bach63bach63 Member Posts: 18
    I don't want to get off topic (MKZ), but I haven't bought into anything; I have 2 cars, both with stability control, and I have seen it work on icy roads at fairly slow speeds, without "putting my life in jeopardy". As soon as the car starts to get out of line, it reacts much faster than I could. Once again, it is a safety feature that works (I refer you to my previous post about the IIHS study), and I would rather have it than not. If you want to ignore the evidence, that is your choice.
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    heavensoldierheavensoldier Member Posts: 61
    Hmmm? I went to the lincoln dealership and he pulled out a spec sheet with lincoln mkz features and he said it had stability control. God Bless.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Hurray if true (I hope he wasn't confusing it with traction control).
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    heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    He was mistaken.

    Ah-choo.
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    pennst8pennst8 Member Posts: 2
    Not really sure why Ford left it out on the MKZ, because the powertrains are basically simliar to that of the Edge/MKX (both of which will be equipped with Advance Trac w/RSC).

    The article cited above, that IIHS published, should have called out the different variances of effectiveness that ESP has on cars based on whether they are RWD, FWD, and AWD taking into account the different behavior each exhibits. That said it still is an omission on a near luxo vehicle such as the MKZ. Though I wouldn't be so quick to right it off in terms of driveability and safety, because there are many things in an emergency/panic situation that come into play besides the electronic nannies that we are so used to these days.
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    heavensoldierheavensoldier Member Posts: 61
    Hello I'm trying to figure out should I get a Lincoln MKZ or a SUV? I was wondering why spend 29k on a car when I can buy a big SUV, like a Ford explorer or expedition for the same price. Also whats good about the MKZ? All this talk about the electronic stability control is making me think otherwise. But I'm just trying to find other cars that compete with the mkz too or a good reliable SUV. But I don't know what to do. Thanks and God Bless.
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    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Impressive, a mention of God in a post about stability control and SUV's.

    Why buy a Rolex when a Timex keeps better time?
    There's only one reason--Because you want to.

    I'd suggest that you think about what vehicle type you prefer to own without strangers telling you what you want.
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    rolo77rolo77 Member Posts: 31
    I just got conformation that the AWD MKZ 07 will be ready in time for my request Delivery of NOV 20th.

    Chief
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    FWD w/3.5L V6 is about $200 more than the Zephyr. AWD is about $2100 more.

    The specs on the "other" website says the fuel tank is 17.5 gallons.
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    caliddcalidd Member Posts: 60
    Media.Ford.com states that the fuel capacity for the MKZ will be 20 gallons.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    That's what started the debate. But it would be odd that the MKZ would have a 20 gallon fuel tank when the Fusion/Milan and 06 Zephyr had 17.5.

    Ford's media site is notorious for typos so I'm leaning towards 17.5.
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    tiger16tiger16 Member Posts: 54
    Last week I talked to the salesman that sold me my 06 Zephyr. He says the information "packet" he just received from Lincoln indicated a 17.5 gal tank for the MKZ. With the idiots running Ford these days, the only thing that surprises me about this thing is that Ford doesn't replace the 17.5 tank with a 16 gal tank (I'm sure the smaller tank would save Ford at least $2). It would make too much sense to drop in a 20 gal tank - they might actually start selling cars again!
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    johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    To the average buyer, larger tank size is actually a negative:

    * Each fillup costs more and total fuel costs are perceived as much higher.

    * More weight to be carried slightly lessens fuel economy.

    * More gasoline on aboard slightly lessens safety.

    VERY few people see large tank size as a major benefit.

    In addition, other engineering changes may have to be made to increase tank size. Sometimes, it isn't as simple as just dropping in another tank. There must be space, the other structures must support the added weight, there are considerations from an impact standpoint.

    If gasoline ever becomes short again, not just costly, the benefits of a larger tank will be much more clear.
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    buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    For some continuity on the 20 Gal. gas tank you have
    to go to http://tinyurl.com/krycf as prior postings
    made here (Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ forum) regarding the gas
    tank have been moved there?
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    rolo77rolo77 Member Posts: 31
    I see the AWD MKZ will weigh 206 lbs more than
    the FWD MKZ is that about average for a
    AWD vs FWD, I checked a couple of other models
    Ford 500 and Dodge Magnum and the weight
    difference is around 170 lbs so the 206 seems rather high,
    based on that weight what should the gas mileage
    be 18/26 and what about loss of power 0-60
    .3 second loss ?
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    caliddcalidd Member Posts: 60
    Anyone know whether the incentives currently offered on the Zephyr (0% interest for 72 months, $1000 off) will be offered on the MKZ?
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    johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    The 0 interest expires tomorrow.

    If they have to offer 0 financing to sell the MKZ, Ford is in even more trouble than most think.

    Short answer: It's highly, highly unlikely, and not a good sign if they do.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The 0% financing only applies to 2006 models to clear out old inventory.
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    buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    Ford Motor Co. will start building the Lincoln MKZ in Hermosillo, Mexico, this week. The MKZ replaces the Lincoln Zephyr.
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    revrasrevras Member Posts: 63
    Ford is in trouble and if they were smart they would offer 0% financing to kick start all their 2007 models, cut truck production in half and get a Fusion hybrid on the road in 6 months time. I could be crazy but I think they need to take drastic measures which are clearly indicated. Give the people what they clearly want for a change.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    You are another person confused by why Ford won't pull out the stops and do what is needed RIGHT NOW. If GM can move up intro dates, there must be some people at Ford that have a clue how to do that.

    I know, I know, Ford has always operated thusly: when the chips are down, delay planned introductions to save money. Guess what? It is actually speeding them up that works best in the long run. Late to the table rarely gets you the lion's share (unless everyone is already satiated on what was offered, and you have something really unique to offer).
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    BeamerManBeamerMan Member Posts: 64
    You are so right, I am a customer moving to a Lincoln MKZ but it won't be delivered for 3 months. I think they build a great car but they cannot get them to market efficiently. Bill Fords "Go Fast" program need to go fast. My God what kind of a wakeup call does it take? Toyota will bury Ford and GM if they don't wake up. Bill Foed should be listening to us. Wayne
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    ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    LINK

    Starting at $29,890
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    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    That's great- $100 less than last year's Zephyr.
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