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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

1464749515260

Comments

  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Here in Northern VA:

    "5 day" BLOW OUT SALE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    10-14 OCT 2007

    For just 5 days only, all 2007 and yes, 2008 In Stock Lincolns and Mercurys will be SOLD for $22 dollars BELOW Factory Invoice PLUS you get the Rebates. All we will add is the tax, tags and fees. FREIGHT is already included!!!!!

    YES NAVIGATOR, MKX, MKZ, MILAN, SABLE, MARK LT and the ever popular MARINER for$22 dollars BELOW invoice.

    Please do not pass this Sale by!!!!!!!
  • jerrys2jerrys2 Member Posts: 189
    Agree 100% with your comments ... not much activity on this board. After a few weeks and 1k I concur the MKZ is a winner ... considered Lexus ES350 but I still can not tell them apart from the Camray. :)
  • caliddcalidd Member Posts: 60
    I've had my 2007 MKZ for about two weeks now. During that time, four people at three different locations gave unsolicited positive comments about the car. One woman turned the car as she was walking away and told me it was a beautiful car. Another two guys were staring at it as I parked outside a coffee shop. When I came out, they were still looking at it as said that it was a beautiful car. They seemed to understand when I told them that I had driven a Lexus ES for 12 years, and they told me that they wanted to buy stock in Ford. Another gentleman, some days ago, was talking to me in a parking lot and noticed my car while I was talking and said it was beautiful. There are areas in which the MKZ could improve, but on appearance, I think Lincoln hit the mark! As my two weeks of experience have shown, the car is a head-turner.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Member Posts: 490
    Even with my other reservations about the Z, I agree it is a beautiful car.
  • Too bad it didn't adopt a Lincoln "look," rather than the cautious but not displeasing approach they actually took. Some people obviously like the MKZ look, but that opinion is far from universal. I have noticed that lots of people don't give it a second glance--which is exactly what it needs for someone to appreciate its more subtle but generally tasteful styling...it is after all a decently and cleanly styled car.

    But it is yet another in the disparate crop of Lincolns. That should change in time of course (especially when the Mark LT and Town Car go away), but it would have been nice if Lincoln could have adopted the champhered fenders or roofline or other design elements from the MKR concept. They have modified the MKS somewhat, based on Lincoln's planned look, and the MKZ will get new front and rear styling and new interior as well, to bring it more in line with what will look like a Lincoln.

    Anyway the Zephyr/MKZ is too close to being perceived as a rather nice high trim level of the Fusion. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But putting Lincoln in the very slot that Mercury once held (higher trim with a bit more elegant styling...rather than the straightforward badge-engineered Fords that Mercurys are now) won't get Lincoln back the stature it once had.
  • tiger16tiger16 Member Posts: 54
    Yes, Ford has a long way to go with MKZ. However, I will applaud it's effort with the intro of the Zephyr. Definitely a very nice car for the price. Still some catching up to do. Unlike horsepower and gas mileage, styling (inside & out) is purely subjective and unfortunately, it seems as many people dislike the MKZ as like it. So basically Ford eliminates half of their target market and that won't give Ford the sales numbers it desperately needs. I truly think the redo of the MKZ is more crucial than it's initial introduction. This will be a true indicator of where the Lincoln nameplate is headed. A few weeks ago I started a "let's tweak the MKZ." Some good suggestions were made but, overall, the response was extremely limited. Ford ignored Lincoln for a decade and now it seems the buying public doesn't care that much either. I think first and foremost Ford must decide what kind of car it wants the MKZ to be. Does it want low profile tires and a stiff suspension to compete with the Maximas of the world or does it want a supple ride and a plush interior to compete with the Lexus of the world? One suggestion was to install a standard ride compliant suspension and offer an optional sport suspension. Great idea which means Ford won't do it. But this is just one example of how Ford can continue it's comeback. It can't ignore good first efforts. It must continue to improve upon those first efforts and make those improvements quickly. The Lincoln nameplate has fallen so much over 10 yrs I'm not sure it can regain it's former prestige. When I got my Zephyr my golfing buddies laughed at me. I got comments like "Why did you buy a Lincoln?" No one buys a Lincoln anymore. If you want a nice car get a Lexus or Infiniti." Let's hope Ford has finally gotten the message.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Member Posts: 490
    "When I got my Zephyr my golfing buddies laughed at me. I got comments like "Why did you buy a Lincoln?" No one buys a Lincoln anymore. If you want a nice car get a Lexus or Infiniti." Let's hope Ford has finally gotten the message"

    Hoooh-boy can I relate to that one. I got my 2001 LS for my big 5-0 birthday. Best comment amoung my peers was "Well, I guess we're all getting old if u got a Lincoln." Sad but true.

    Lincoln has been trying to lower the average age of their buyers, but is not having much success. Even me at 50, I'm like a baby compared to most Lincoln buyers. I regularyly see beautiful LSes with spoilers and chrome wheels being driven by folks with green hair and walkers in the back seat. It's practically criminal. :surprise:

    Having been a member of a certain LS car group which advocated Lincoln and met annually with Lincoln VPs etc, I told my old buddies to just wait, the LS is the first in a line of vehicles that will reinvigorate the Lincoln line to compete with the likes of BMW etc across the board. Sadly, that was not to be. Cadillac came out of nowhere and stole the mantle from Lincoln. Now, as Motor Trend pointed out this month, Lincoln "used to be a proud luxo brand, now it's just a Ford trim level." I presently own two Lincolns. But even at my age, I dont see myself buying another.
  • That is EXACTLY the problem. It may be a nice trim level, but Lincolns are only distinguished from the comparable Fords by fancy trim. You don't see Cadillac building a fancy Impala and a fancy Malibu.

    Once Ford stops doing that and if they can do it in time (before the whole shebang is shot), Lincoln will garner more respect than what is merely afforded it by current owners.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Member Posts: 490
    "You don't see Cadillac building a fancy Impala and a fancy Malibu.

    Once Ford stops doing that and if they can do it in time (before the whole shebang is shot), Lincoln will garner more respect than what is merely afforded it by current owners."

    Well, you certainly USED to. Remember the Cimmaron for example?

    Unfortunately the mkz is a reminder of the Versailles, while the CTS, STS, ... are their own animals.

    I just relooked at the interior shot of the upcoming mks and it only reaffirmed my view that it's probably over for Lincoln as a top flight brand. Compare the mks interior to the CTS, then realize one is a RWD performance car, the other a redone 2005 FWD volvo and one wonders if there's any hope for Fomoco. Mercury is a dead duck waiting to be buried. Lincoln is the new Mercury. Wonder if Ford will target only women with the Lincoln at that point. They may as well.
  • steprov1steprov1 Member Posts: 8
    This weekend I'll be taking my first long road trip. I'll be driving from Me. to N.J. and returning. I'll be intersted to see how the fuel economy is and the car performs overall. I'll let you know...
  • cowbellcowbell Member Posts: 125
    I couldn't agree more about the MKS short comings, and it hasn't even come out yet. I think the only thing that could save it is if it was only offered with full-time AWD. No car in that class should be FWD.

    As for the MKZ being an upscale Fusion, I agree, but that's not such a horrible thing. The Fusions is a good car to start with. Then, put in a much better engine, a much nicer interior, a sharper exterior, a killer stereo, and a bunch of sound-insulation, and it's a VERY nice car for the money.

    I hear a lot of people complaining about diminishing a Brand identity (Truth About Cars, I'm looking in your direction), but if you care more about substance than names, the MKZ is a good car.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    No car in that class should be FWD.

    Why not? Works for Audi. The base A6 is FWD while the performance versions are AWD.

    Remember, this isn't a $60K flagship vehicle - that will have to wait for the new Huntsman platform.

    In the meantime I think a 280 hp FWD cruiser in addition to a 350+ HP AWD performance model will suffice nicely.
  • Of course it is a good car. But name me a car in that class or price class that is not good. The whole field has gotten so much better in almost every way.

    Anyone who buys an MKZ will likely be pleased with their purchase. But it is in the comparisons among many good performers that other marques rise to the top of the "good field," and the MKZ is nowhere near doing that.

    Lincoln needs a star performer in this class. Lincoln needs something to compete with the goodness of the 08 CTS, the 09 A4, the 08 C Class, the BMW 3 series. The MKZ is a reasonable start, given how Bill Ford set out to absolutely ruin Lincoln in a few short years. But now they need to really produce, because the competition keeps moving.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    I just relooked at the interior shot of the upcoming mks and it only reaffirmed my view that it's probably over for Lincoln as a top flight brand.

    Where did you find recent pictures of the interior? I must have missed a link around here.
  • casolorzcasolorz Member Posts: 88
    Anyone seen any models with SYNC on the lots yet?
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Too bad about your buddies not liking your car. I get nothing but good comments. I have 26k on my Zephyr and 12k on my MKZ and no problems with either one of them ever. I was out in front of Union Station (DC) and a group of tourist came up to ask about the car. A group of young folks walked by and all turned and you could see them reciting the name MKZ. I am sure by now must of them have seen the commercial but do not know much about the car. I am starting to see lots of MKX's also here in DC. I only wish the best for Ford and Lincoln.
  • steprov1steprov1 Member Posts: 8
    Over this past weekend, my wife & I travled from Me. to N.J.and back. The total distance was 817 miles. The car averaged 26.5 m.p.g. on the way down. Some city driving reduced this, but we still averaged a respectable 25.7 for the trip. The car performed like a champ. The adjustable seats were great for changing seating positions and I feel that there is sufficdient padding. The ride was smooth & quiet and we really enjoyed the THX. I don't have the built in navigation system, but we used a portable unit(less than $300 that worked fine. I tend to question paying the high asking price for the built in unit. I only noticed one other Zephyr and one MKZ however. Maybe the recent T.V. adds will help put a few more units on the road...
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Not sure if Sync is out in the showrooms yet? Here is some more info on it.

    http://www.syncmyride.com/?UserCulture=en-US&bannerid=236017|18454925|144546142#- /overlay/overlay_what_is_sync
  • casolorzcasolorz Member Posts: 88
    They had it on an MKX, just not on any MKZs.
  • cowbellcowbell Member Posts: 125
    Has anyone heard if Sync will at all be able to be retrofitted onto a 2007 MKZ?
  • It cannot be retrofitted on any models. It needs factory installation.
  • steprov1steprov1 Member Posts: 8
    The Speed Channel program "Autoline Detroit" will be running a segment this Sunday featuring some independent reviews that discuss recent quality improvements on Ford produdcts. I don't know any more details, but it should be interesting. But oil prices hit an all time high today. They are pushing $100 a barrel. Even if Ford's quality is the best, big luxury vehicles like Lincolns don't sell well when gas prices spiral up. So what are Ford's plans for developing a fleet of more fuel efficent vehicles? They will need to be at the forefront of a future that may not include gas guzzlers.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I also wonder where are all of the Hybrids that Billy Ford promised. You would think that the automakers would be running full tilt to get more of these out to the public. I also understand that as gas goes above 3 bucks only then does the public start to think about these types of vehicles. Right now in order to get a luxury hybrid you really have to spend some big bucks. I assume we all must wait until the 2010 model years to really have some choices. I predict 3.50 gas by Spring.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I love the nav system in this vehicle. I was recently overseas and drove a BMW and Merc and their Nav system does not touch the one in the MKZ. I was wondering about the storage capability of the address book. First I assume it is stored on flash memory? I am not happy with the capacity of the address book. I can save about 40 entries. There are not many bytes in a name and address even a cheap flash memory device should be able to hold 100's of entries. Any ideals why the constraint?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    2 issues - first, they can't get enough batteries right now for the Escape, much less any other hybrids. Second - Ford is developing a gen 2 hybrid system that is more flexible and can be used in more existing vehicles and it's not quite ready yet. The hybrid Fusion should debut next year.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
  • It's always like that, isn't it? Things at Ford take longer than they do. Sales will pick up "later." All these plant closings and buyouts are going to make a more "efficient" company.

    Now, the promised hybrid Fusion will be out in 2009! Mulally needs more than 14 months to make any changes that actually benefit sales or bottom line. A hoped for 2009 profit may be too soon. This basket case company is no closer to survival than it was a year ago.

    Jac Nasser could have put the company to the top by now. Instead, the suits lost nerve, got scared and fired him. To save money. Like that worked.

    With BMW, Audi, VW, Hyundai, etc., all planning huge onslaughts of product and market conquest (not to mention what happens when Chinese companies begin marketing here), companies like Chrysler and Ford are in danger of going the way of American Motors. What company do you know that has shrunk its way to sustained profitability?

    I do hope MKZ doesn't really stand for Mulally Knows Zip.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Who said the Fusion hybrid won't appear until 2009? It should be here next fall.

    I truly believe that with Fields, Mulally and Kuzack in charge that we won't see the waffling, indecisiveness and short sighted decisions that have plagued Ford in the past. Unfortunately they can't fix past screwups in just a few months.

    Here is a good sign (IMO): The 09 Fusion refresh was originally scheduled to get the PIP D3.0L and not the D3.5L due to supply issues with the D3.5L and all the new vehicles. Somewhere in the last few months the D3.5L program was accelerated and the PIP D3.0L program was all but cancelled (might still be used for the Escape).
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Well, I am with them all the way. My sons only drive Fords and they said that is the way it will be for them! I hope they kick some butt out there in the coming years especially in the Hybrid arena. Gas just hit $ 3.10 here in the DC area for regular!
  • tiger16tiger16 Member Posts: 54
    Anything new on a redo for the 09 MKZ? I hope Ford doesn't let this thing rot on the vine like they do with so many of their offerings. Status quo is never competitive.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The refresh is well underway. It's still unclear whether we'll see it in 08 as an 09 model or if it got pushed back to 09 as a 2010 model. It should get the new 3.7L engine and new front/rear styling (front should look like the MKS/MKR with the split front grille). A new interior is also rumored - hopefully more traditional like the MKS. We should know more at Detroit in January.
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Member Posts: 121
    Anything new on a redo for the 09 MKZ? I hope Ford doesn't let this thing rot on the vine like they do with so many of their offerings. Status quo is never competitive

    Yes, I am waiting to see if they will do the same with next generation Fusion to improve on the things wrong with the current car. Ford specializes in making the next generation model worse than the previous or barely better.
  • hiramahirama Member Posts: 4
    I have been considering a MKZ as a replacement for my wife's Grand Prix GTP. I like the interior and the luxury perks on the car. Hopefully it should have comparable (or better) performance. The one item I am undecided on is the AWD. I am leaning against it. I have a 4x4 truck for bad weather. Would it noticably change everyday driving characteristics and more importantly what about long term service and maintenance? I plan on keeping this car a long time(100K+) as a daily driver with the Idea of getting a corvette as a weekend car maybe 3-4 years down the road.
  • Stability control would actually be more useful than AWD and has no mileage penalty. Unfortunately, it will not be available until the 09 model.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I am happy with the AWD. It has been helpful during rain storms and the few snowstorms we get in the DC area. We really got a downpour a month ago and I had no issue on the highway. I at least had confidence.
  • Except that AWD will not help you much at all in slippery conditions where you or your momentum are traveling faster than your traction. Stability control combines anti-lock brakes, traction control, and often yaw control to brake (or apply throttle) to individual corners faster than you can think about it.

    AWD will provide at least one spinning wheel on the front and one on the back and that is often better than say, rear wheel drive without traction control or limited slip differential. It also allows FWD cars to handle more than 200+ hp burnouts more gracefully. But a person should still have stability control. It is commonly available, not expensive, proven-to-save-lives technology.
  • hiramahirama Member Posts: 4
    It does seem odd that an entry level luxury car would not have TC, our Grand Prix has it. I have never owned an AWD vehicle. I wonder if the AWD would be durable on a long term basis?
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I thought Ford committed to having ESP on all cars by 2010?
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Some cars will get it before 2010. The MKZ should have had it already. They must have supplier issues; I can't believe they didn't think it was wanted.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It does have TC (traction control) but not Stability Control. It requires 4 channel ABS and the CD3 cars only have 3 channel right now. It was a mistake and it should be fixed in the 09 model.

    There are more moving parts with AWD but it shouldn't be that much worse than a FWD vehicle.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    When you have limited resources you have to pick and choose what you spend money on. Ford decided to spend the money on AWD instead of 4 channel ABS and Stability Control. Hard to say if doing the reverse would have sold more cars or not.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Limited resources – that’s how companies like Packard, Studebaker, AMC, Lincoln (after 2000) became a history. I am getting nervous about Ford’s future when hear this kind of excuses.
  • cg205cg205 Member Posts: 34
    I can address some of your questions as I have both a C6 Corvette and an AWD MKZ. We got the Z about a year ago, and chose AWD since we have enough days of snow and ice each year to make it necessary. My son liked our Z so much he bought one about 2 months later for his family. Since he has a 4 wheel drive pickup so he decided to buy a FWD Z. After almost a year, I can tell you that if you do not need AWD you will be happier with the FWD. I have driven his car extensively, and it is significantly quicker than my AWD model. It also consistently gets significantly better MPG than my car. On the highway, his gets about 2 MPG better, and in traffic, it gets 3-4 more MPG. Having a Corvette, I'm more interested in performance than MPG, and if you drive both AWD and FWD Zs, I think you will see what I mean.

    I will say that during bad winter weather last year, nothing slowed down my Z, and I felt very confident driving it on snow and ice. As for long term reliability, I doubt I will have it any longer than the long term powertrain warranty provided by Lincoln will cover it. But I have had absolutely no problems with it in the year I've owned it, and neither has my son with his. I only wish I could say the same thing for the Corvette....which cost twice as much as my AWD Z and is constantly having nagging problems.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's news to you that a company that's been losing money the last several years ($12B last year alone) has limited resources and has to pick and choose where to spend money? You don't know much about business, do you?

    Don't forget that was also done in the pre-Mulally, pre-Fields era. I don't think they'll be making those kind of tradeoffs in the future.
  • hiramahirama Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for the info cg205. Yeah the MKZ seems to be a good buy price wise considering the luxury and performance. Ultimately I would like a C6 for performance and dream of owning one. In the mean time I am looking for a daily somewhat longterm kinda fun car to own.
    I think I can do without the moonroof ( I set tall and also never use the one I have now), AWD, and NAV. This gives a list of about $33K with nice stereo and high intensity headlights. As best as I can tell the other cars I would consider would be: CTS-$39.5, BMW 335-$45 as I would equip them. If I did not have aspirations for a C6 maybe I would go with the Caddy or BMW.

    I would also add the ford products I have had have been reliable, 99 F-150 had 150K mile on it when I traded it for the duramax Chevy 3500 I now have. Currently have a 99 Tarus with 150K as daily driver going strong.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    Thank you for your excellent logical post. I don't own an MKZ but just based on the additional weight, friction, moving parts, cost, etc, I have always thought buyers should consider their needs/wants very carefully before embracing AWD. Certainly, AWD has some advantages but there is no free lunch.

    I have been waiting 2 years for the MKS to be introduced and I am very pleased that AWD will be optional - not standard. Being more interested in performance, I will gladly pass on the AWD.
  • jerrys2jerrys2 Member Posts: 189
    Since my other car is a Subaru Tribeca ( my 4th Subaru ) I saw no need for another AWD. Better gas mileage and price were other factors. I live in New England and did drive the MKZ in slippery conditions last week ... no problems. This is a great car especially for the money... :)
  • cg205cg205 Member Posts: 34
    You mentioned options you wanted and options you could do without. I have the HID headlights, and my son doesn't. After driving both cars quite a bit at night, I can tell you they are not worth the extra money unless you are just in love with the cool factor of the blue light. The THX is definitely worth it, and my son now wishes he had gotten it. As for the sunroof, unless you are over 6'4", you should be able to adjust your seat to a point you can be comfortable with the reduced headroom. I got the factory navigation, and unless you want the status of a built in unit, you could save a lot of money with a good aftermarket unit. Mine just happened to have it, and since it had everything else I wanted, I took it.
  • hiramahirama Member Posts: 4
    I have wondered about the HID, my wife sometimes has trouble driving at night and I thought they might help. Do you know if the cost to replace the bulbs when they burn out is also higher? I would assume so. I did sit in a MKZ and did have enough head room with the seat adjusted all they way down. But I would still like to save the $1200 since this is one option we hardly(almost never) use. I agree with the NAV, I can buy a hand held for much less and use in any vehicle.
  • cg205cg205 Member Posts: 34
    Cheapest I've seen for the bulbs on the web is about $60 each, usually sold in pairs, with some numbers running much higher. I'd hate to think what Lincoln would get to replace one for you. I've read on the C6 Corvette forum many owners complaining about the high cost of those type bulbs on newer Vettes. Fortunately I've never had to replace bulbs on either car yet, and I have no idea whether it is a do-it-yourself job.
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