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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    LM seems to have OCD about recycling misused names, how many miserable different Capri, Cougar, Continental, Mark and now Zephyr models have we seen? At least Versallies and Merkur seem safely dead.

    There is one old Lincoln name that is actually not bad, and has no baggage: Lincoln Premier.

    I'm sure the name Zephyr won't deter committed buyers if the car is worthwhile but I do feel certain, a name like that ain't gonna help. I just don't understand the need to hobble it with one more needless obstacle.
    Ford and LM have enough issues as it is.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Zephyr is different to be sure. There is a Zephyr Cove (city) near Lake tahoe, NV. It's a heritage name, not something concocted out of a focus group. (I can't believe I'm defending this name!) I can think of many worse, that irritated me more. Such as:

    Sable - Sephia - Camry - Avalon - just to name a few.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    At least it's a name and not a trim level (LS).
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    YES, I agree - always hated that LS designation. I similarly hate the SSR, HHR, SRX, DTS, STS, SLS, EXT, CTS, ETC and all the other Cadillac alphabet soup. Heritage names like DeVille and Eldorado should continue on, IMO.

    I ran out of time before I could expand upon my list of irritating car names. Add to my list;

    Windstar, Freestar, Milan, Fusion, Lumina, Cobalt, LaCrosse, Rendezvous.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Canadians will like LaCrosse- until they need glasses.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Can't believe that will be a big seller up there..... Evidently, no one spoke French on the focus group...

    That (needing glasses) doesn't really happen, BTW. :)
  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    ANT, I would appreciate your comments on this:

    I find it disappointing that the latest Ford models with the 6 speed automatic lack the ability to manually select and hold the intermediate gears. Some of the early driving reports have also commented on that. Before someone says, "you should just leave it in "drive," anyway, let me give you a couple of examples of why manual control is desirable for me.

    In our nasty Twin Cities traffic, I am often on freeways crawling along at between 5 and 25 MPH, sometimes for several miles. With my LS, 3rd is perfect to avoid the constant upshifting and downshifting. With my Ranger, 2nd (which is really 3rd) is great. With my wife's Taurus, however, which lacks any meaningful manual control, it is constantly upshifting or downshifting at the wrong times and a smooth driving experience is difficult. Also, manual control is very desirable in mountain driving.

    Can we look forward to a "select-shift" type shifter or at least a revision to the current set-up on future models - especially on the upcoming 500-based Lincolns?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I agree, I use the select-shift when I'm stuck in rolling traffic, and need to slow down a bit, without scaring the person behind me with constantly pressing the brake pedal, or when I have someone on my rear and want to slowdown hard enough and scare them, and hopefully have them hit me.

    That will be rectified when the new 6 speed transmission being built with GM, debut.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    Excellent! Thanks for the quick response.

    While I wouldn't consider the current Zephyr to replace my LS with 100,000 trouble free miles on it, I think it could be more popular than some think. I wish they had waited until the 3.5 was ready to introduce the car, though. The initial road tests will likely criticize the 3.0 and those first impressions can be important.

    Other than those owned by the rear-wheel drive purists, I would not be surprised to see some V6 LSs replaced with Zephyrs. Having a car with a real name (like it or not) and equal or higher levels of luxury and performance at a decent price could be pretty compelling for some.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Early reviews of the Fusion and Milan say the V6 w/6 speed automatic is not lacking for power. Won't pin you to the seat, but it's not a dog. So it should be adequate until the 3.5L shows up.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Gas being what it is today, and heading where it's heading, I'd be quite content with the Duratec in my Mercury Montego - should I buy one.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    What's up with the CVT? I hear nothing about it anymore. Is it performing and holding up as planned? Is it selling? Is it going to be the thing of the future? Is it going to be available on more Ford products in the future? :confuse:
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Ironically the CVT posts better "Real world fuel mileage" thn what the figures show... As in, you know how some vehicles (My LS for example), will state 17/25, but I should be so lucky if I even get 15MPG....Or hybrids which claims 50+MPG, but are averaging 20MPG if lucky?

    The CVT might post 20/29 on the window sticker, yet average 24-26MPG from the data I'm seeing. So possiblities are there, but some vehicles cannot work with a CVT (such as a Mustang), or with trucks (limitations). Therefore it's still being debated as to what the next steps will be.

    Personally, I would like to see a CVT Focus. But because of the high costs of manufacturing an CVT, it's not something you wish to implement on a vehicle with lower margins, "economy class" vehicle as a Focus.

    Speaking of CVT, there's IVT's (Torotrak), which can work on any vehicle without limitations.

    Bruce,

    The V6 standard engine on the LS was dropped for 2006 so the Zephyr becomes the V6 recipient (different version though). This will allow the implementation of the future 3.5L and be able to tool up for it's production.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    I realize the V6 LS has been dropped and that is why I would expect some of those former buyers and potential buyers to find the Zephyr worth a look. As for the 3.0 being adequate in the Zephyr, I agree. I would just prefer any Lincoln be a step above "adequate."

    By the way, when the 3.5 is available in the Zephyr, will it replace the 3.0 or will the 3.0 still be offered? I understand AWD should be available at about the same time. Will the 3.5 be available in the front drive version or just the AWD?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    My guess is the 3.5 will be AWD because that's the direction that Lincoln is going. They may keep the 3.0 if they have production capacity and keep a lower priced version with FWD only. It will probably come down to a marketing decision based on what the competition is offering at that time.

    Obviously Lincoln would have preferred to debut the Zephyr with the 3.5L but since it isn't ready and they desperately need new vehicles they chose to go with the 3.0L rather than delay the car for another year or two.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Yes, the 3.5L will be offered with AWD, although on some vehicles, the 3.5L might be offered without AWD. All depends how the gas issue will turn out. But the 3.5L will replace numerous applications where the 3.0L currently resides. In some vehicles, the choice will be 2.3L I4, and 3.5L V6 for example.

    Originally the 3.5L was to be the replacement engine for the 3.0L in the LS, but since that program was killed prior to the release of the engine, deemed pointless.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    I still wonder if the CVT will be offered with that 3.5L in any of the Fusion/Milan/Zephyr cars...
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "I would just prefer any Lincoln be a step above "adequate."

    Exactly. Judging from the
    Five Hundreds I DON'T see on the road, I'm assuming the introduction of this new car hasn't been the Taurus reborn. That sickens me, because I believe it to be a great car, groundbreaking in the tall nature of the seating, which, by the way, I like. Why though, did they have to make it so bland? Just because Toyota is stunningly successful with ugly cars, doesn't mean Ford will be. Toyotas still sell because they're so good, not because they're ugly. Chrysler proves that - they bring out knockouts, one after another, and under the skin, they're pretty mediocre, IMO, but they sell.

    I don't think the 3.0L is the problem with the 500, or the Zephyr. It'll depend on the look and feel of the car, more than the engine, especially with the gas like it is.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Interesting article about design on Fusion/Zephyr

    http://tinyurl.com/c9728
  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    I am just rooting for Lincoln to knock one outta the park instead of settling for a double. There is some pretty stiff competition in the low $30,000 price range. Having some feature or features that that are unique or "best in class" would be welcome.

    For example, the 3.5 coupled with CVT or even a select-shift 6 speed automatic would help move the Zephyr up the rung a bit from where it is now from a mechanical standpoint. Perhaps, setting new standards for some other thing like low noise levels, best in class driving dynamics, or "surprise and delight" features would also help it apart and have people say, "Wow, I really like this!" instead of "Hmmm....this is not bad...." Hopefully the Zephyr will have that special "something."

    I agree it's not all the engine - particularly in the 500. The lack of power has been addressed by most of the automotive press, however, and that couldn't have helped. My wife, who drives a Duratec Taurus and never reads road-tests, drove a 500 that we rented from Hertz and noted that "it drives nice but it's not as zippy as my Taurus."

    As NvBanker says, the bland look of the 500 is a problem. There was a 500 and a Fusion on display at the Minnesota State fair and based on the crowds around the Fusion, it will not suffer the same fate. The Fusion looks like a home run in the styling department. The 500 just sat gathering dust while the Fusion was getting very strong compliments from everyone.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The Zephyr, true to its namesake, will be the low end, of the high end Fords. And I'm not sure why we need an entry level Lincoln. Lincoln is almost entry level by itself anymore.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    This gentleman says about the Lincoln Zephyr versus the Milan and Fusion: "they are all essentially the same."

    http://www.suntimes.com/output/auto/car-news-car12.html

    Hmmm.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It also says the Zephyr is heavier and has a more lavish interior. Until the 3.5L and AWD appear the only differences will be interior/exterior styling, sound deadening, suspension tweaks. The Zephyr also has optional Navigation and Cooled front seats.
  • ckwilliackwillia Member Posts: 2
    i saw a zephr today parked on the side of the street on campus here at the university of illinois.. it has michigan plates. it looks pretty good in person, much better than i thought it would and the interior looked to be made of alright materials... i was even able to snap a pick of the back of it.
  • howard11howard11 Member Posts: 5
    ISELLINCOLNS...AND WOW...GOT MY FIRST LOOK...INSIDE AND OUTSIDE OF THE NEW ZEPHYR...AND...TOOK MY FIRST TEST DRIVE...AND WOW...I'VE SOLD ACURA, LEXUS, CADILLAC, NISSAN, HONDA, TOYOTA, LANDROVER, MAZDA, FORD, AND MERCEDES...AND...THIS CAR SELLS ITSELF.

    LINCOLN NEEDS TO MARKET THIS PRODUCT RIGHT...YA SEE...THE WAY HONDA AND TOYOTA HAS BRAINWASHED THE MARKET...THIS WAY LINCOLN COULD DOUBLE AND EVEN TRIPLE THEIR PROJECTED ZEPHYR SALES...MARKETING IS THE KEY.

    THE ZEPHYR IS A BEAUTIFULLY ARTICULATED COMBINATION OF SPORTY AND SLEEK LINES, AS WELL AS, LUXURIOUS AND TASTEFUL DETAIL...IT'S ALMOST PERFECT. THE WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION, SUSPENSION, TRANSMISSION TORQUE, AND ENGINE HORSEPOWER (EVEN ON THE 221HP 3.0L - DESPITE WHAT THE KNOW IT ALL PINHEADS SAY) FIT LIKE A GLOVE...A GLOVE THAT CATCHES EVERYTHING...AND I HOPE IT'LL CATCH THE DISCERNING BUYER WHO WANTS VVAALLUUEE!

    I HAVE NOT BEEN THIS EXCITED ABOUT A LINCOLN SINCE I STARTED SELLING THEM 7 MONTHS AGO.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    must you use all caps? It is considered very rude and is very difficult to read!

    Thanks for the input, but use the shift key, please! We really can see, even if we are the target market for one of the oldest lines of vehicles in America...
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    We hope you're right, Howard.....
  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    I visited with the Fleet Manager at my local dealer last week where I picked up a brochure. He was just as excited as you, Howard. He said there would be some very sweet lease deals on the Zephyr to get it off to a good start. He also said that the first thing he noticed when he drove one at a meeting he had attended was the incredible quiet. The brochure makes a big deal of the thicker side glass, insulation, and tire choice combining to make the car exceptionally quiet, too.

    I don't know if the Zephyr will sway customers looking at a Lexus ES330 or even a Chrysler 300, but there are tons of people out there driving Taurus and Sables who will have a high-quality similar sized FWD Ford product to move up to without breaking the bank. That is more than they had before.
  • navigator89navigator89 Member Posts: 1,080
    I sure hope this car sells well for Lincoln's sake, I mean as far I know only the Navigator and Town Car sell well. The Mark LT is simply a fancy F-150, the LS is too old, and the Aviator is nice but has stiff competition.

    As for marketing of the Zephyr, you might want to read this.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Aviator? What Aviator?
  • navigator89navigator89 Member Posts: 1,080
    "Aviator? What Aviator? "

    What, you don't know that Lincoln makes an Explorer based SUV called the Aviator? :confuse:
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    "What, you don't know that Lincoln makes an Explorer based SUV called the Aviator?"

    What, you don't know that they KILLED the Aviator back in July and are no longer making them? :confuse: :cry:
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Boy, Nav89, you stepped right into that one.
  • The main problem with the Zephyr, as it is currently configured, is that it is only a differently trimmed Fusion. The Fusion is a good car, but Lincoln charges many thousands more for a Fusion/Milan with some upgraded interior trim. The seat cooling option is the only unique feature, but even that does not come standard.

    When you start comparing the Zephyr to other cars, the surface glitz doesn't hold up. How can Lincoln promote a near luxury car these days, with no electronic stability program, no brake assist, not electronic brake force distribution, no nothing (to set it apart from Camrys, Accords, etc.)?

    The 2006 Hyundai Sonata offers all those things STANDARD, plus better mileage, more power, more room, same quiet interior for $10,000 less. Of course the Sonata does not pretend to be near luxury, like the pretend Lincoln.

    Looking at true near luxury competition, use Lexus as an example. The IS 3.5 has more power, far more electronic drive controls, similar quiet, good mileage, more power, and the more expensive-to-build rear wheel drive. The ES330 is similarly priced and better equipped, although certainly a more boring car than the Zephyr.

    The reason why Zephyr looks so good to some people is that the Fusion is good--and Lincolns in general are so mediocre (the LS excepted). The best Lincoln is the LS, but Lincoln has ignored it. Although it is balanced, powerful and well-sized (only 3" longer than Zephyr), it has never been promoted properly and should have had a re-skin and new and classier interior for 2006.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    To be fair the Zephyr does have many luxury features not available on Fusion/Milan that you didn't mention in addition to the cooled seats:

    HID headlamps
    THX Stereo
    Navigation system
    Memory Seats
    Dual-Zone automatic HVAC
    Keyless entry Keypad
    Chrome wheels
    Upgraded Leather (sat in both and there is a big difference)
    Upgraded sound insulation
    Upgraded interior (granted it's not a huge upgrade)

    Yes, it should have the 3.5L V6 but that will happen next year. The best direct comparison is the ES330, not the sporty RWD IS.

    Whether it's worth the price difference is a matter of personal preference. And most people buying this type of car won't care much about HP.
  • OK, you have a point. However, most of those features could and should be available on the Milan. There are lots of folks who will buy the Zephyr. Most of them will not have driven the comparable Acura, Lexus, Infinity, Audi, etc. There is nothing in the Zephyr that sets it apart or even puts it on a par with the others, equipmantp-wise. And I beg to differ about the all new 2006 Lexus IS. Yes, it is sporty, but it is also luxuriously equipped and garners the respect of the auto press. Zephyr will not get that until it has a better engine, a manumatic, all wheel drive and perhaps ESP, EBD, and brake assist. Hopefully, these improvements won't come too late.

    FoMoCo is short of engine choices across the line. Compare the options between the F150 and Silverado, or 500 and 2006 Impala. Even with one engine choice, Ford is outgunned usually (Navigator v. Escalade, Town Car v. DTS). They simply must do something about that. Putting a 3.5 in the Zephyr is a start, but then that engine will also likely go into 500, Montego and who knows what else? What's coming after the 3.5? Does Ford have a clue yet?
  • howard11howard11 Member Posts: 5
    I waited a few days before posting any messages because I wanted to review the latest zephyr chatter to prove more than a few points....let me first digress and address the gentleman who had a problem with all caps...ahem...

    Marketing does not equal a localized New York city advertising blitz campaign although after reviewing some messages I admit the brainwashing of the public with Lexus ES330, Acura TL, Mercedes, etc. is almost impossible to overcome...step outside of the box of limited space and time and realize many are brainwashed by the imports. All Lexus, Acura, and the like, are, deressed up versions of Toyota, Honda, Volkswagon, etc...and quality cutting corners of the same (to save money) that effect performance are proven (by empirical evidence)not only in expert opinion reading/magazines but in reliability, dependability, and test driving as well...yet it is this so called expert trade magazine and media reviews which stay in business with/by corporate payment and backing with mind controlling promotion and endorsement. All these so called superior vehicles are not what they used to be...also they cost an arm and a leg to maintain and repair properly...(remember the Acura Legend...now that was a true winner in its day)...remember they do not make them like they used to...the RL can not touch that car...Also addressing the chatter about limited options, engines, etc....too many choices, too much product, and over manufacturing leads to cost over runs, consumer indecision, and compromised production quality...and poor management decisions.. then the government is queried to help the industry out...the market is too segmented as it is...and in the mean time while the so called upper echelon has cut corners...the domestics are constantly improving...kind of like Nissan...marketing means perception...which is accomplished by brainwashing...just keep reading the internet chatter of the so-called "pin-heads"...and I do not mean this term in any negative connotation...we are who we are...keep an open mind despite the odds." The Zephyr is a great car and for the money I would buy one!
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Akirby, problem is, the new ES is scheduled to bow in less than 8 months. For the majority of its lifetime, THAT Lexus is the one with which this Zephyr will compete. And if Lexus prices the ES (expected with the corporate 268 horse 3.5L V6, perhaps tuned slightly higher than that) as agressively as they have the new IS, its going to be tough.

    ~alpha
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Maybe, but the current ES330 is about $3K more than the Zephyr similarly equipped. The ES may have a few more things standard but not much. And I seriously doubt they'll be dropping the price if they put in a new engine. And the Zephyr will get the 3.5L duratec with about 270 hp for the 2007 model year (about 11 months from now). It will also have optional AWD.

    Rumor is there will also be an auxilliary jack added to the stereo and I'm guessing Sirius satellite will also be available.

    They are purposely introducing new things slowly to ensure a quality and recall free launch and will be adding things as they go.

    Supposedly there will be an AWD Fusion ST next year with the 3.5L duratec.
  • Howard, really! My point, if I may have one, is that although platform sharing happens across the board in the auto industry, the Zephyr shares more than a platform with the Fusion. It shares the windshield and all window glass, the doors, all substructure and mount points, most of the steering wheel, switchgear and trim knobs, the engine, the transmission, etc. etc. It IS essentially a Fusion with a different trim package. That does not make it bad. The Fusion is a good car. What it does not make it is a bargain. Lincoln charges a chunk of change for this gussied up Fusion. The fact is Lincoln could not have reasonably charged any more for it if it had bothered to give the Zephyr a unique roof or doors or other body panels.

    Now, look at what Toyota does with the ES300 and Camry. They do not share a single body panel or even the roofline. Or the Lincoln LS and Jaguar S Type (no one could tell they share a lot underneath just by looking at them). Even GM, though its cars are not selling like hotcakes, completely differentiates the alike-underneath Chevy Impala, Pontiac Grand Prix and Buick LaCrosse. They don't even share window glass.

    Lincoln needs more differentiation from its sister divisions to justify the prices. The Mark LT is the most egregious example. It IS an F150 with more chrome. They didn't even change the front facia--only the grill insert.

    Lincolns are not bad vehicles. Sales would jump if they readjusted prices downward to highline Mercury levels--which is what Lincoln is now (the soon-to-be-killed LS excepted).
  • navigator89navigator89 Member Posts: 1,080
    Wow, I really didn't know that until I researched it now. I was on vacation in July, maybe that's why I never noticed.

    It's sad that Lincoln lost the Aviator. It has always been a person favorite in that class. Now Lincoln's lineup is now 5 cars, with the LS near it's end and the Mark LT's demise can't be too far away. That new Mustang based coupe better hurry, 2009 seems too far away to go on with such a limited lineup. :cry:
  • Well, Lincoln does have the new Aviator coming in 2007...I hope it is like the concept of a few years ago, and not watered down. There is also a plan for two new sedans. I hope they are Lincoln-esque and not Lincoln grills grafted onto Ford models.

    Lincoln really missed the boat (as Ford did by not marketing the 427 concept) by not bringing the Lincoln Continental concept (reminiscient of the '61 Lincoln) to market. As the new Mustang shows, if you do heritage well (very current but respectful of the original design), everyone loves it. If you don't do it well (new Thunderbird), it flops. The two sedans will be front-drive....unfortunate as the rest of the luxury industry gravitates toward RWD. Still, if they do them right, like Audi, the AWD versions could shine. Plus, there is that 2009 Lincoln Mustang. Remember how differentiated the 1980s T-bird and Marks were? It could happen again.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The new Lincolns won't be Fords with new grilles - they'll be Volvos with new grilles. Actually, you won't be able to tell that they're based on the Volvos or the Five Hundred just like you don't see anything Mazda6 about the Zephyr, Milan or Fusion.

    And they will only be offered with AWD and at least an option V8. FWD is only for the Zephyr.
  • howard11howard11 Member Posts: 5
    Just imagine...close your eyes...open them...look at the back/rear of the Zephyr...there is a Lexus symbol...not a Lincoln symbol...now what does your brainwashed mind think of the car?
  • pnewbypnewby Member Posts: 277
    I didn't know there was a new Thunderbird. Thought the old one was phasing out without a replacement. It was anything but a flop, and like the Lincoln LS, the only problem is FOMOCO leaving what was a great car a few years ago, without any updates to keep it alive. That seems to be the case far too often with Ford these days, I love my Freestyle, but they decided to make it something completely different after only a couple of years. My new in July of 99 2000 LS V8 was one of the best buys on the road, and a truley great car, but sadly enough the 2006 models are virtually the same car. Good, but not great for 2006. :confuse:
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    He was talking about the "old" thunderbird that was just killed.

    The LS didn't die from lack of marketing. It died because Ford decided not to sell them in Europe and also decided not to make any new vehicles from the dew98 platform. It's too expensive (ok for jag since they're considerably more expensive) and can't use the corporate 4.6L V8s. Without european sales and more models to share the platform costs plus the one-off 3.9L V8 and all aluminum suspension it became too expensive to keep. And it wasn't that rigid - the thunderbird had to use cross braces behind the seats which made it impossible to use for the new mustang convertible since it had to have a back seat.

    I think closing Wixom was also part of the long term plan. Why waste advertising on a car that loses money? I love mine but it just doesn't make sense to keep it from a business standpoint.
  • Howard, I don't care for Lexus ES330 styling and wouldn't buy one. However, it does have more content, quality and engineering than the average near luxury car. It's not the badge, man. It's the content and forwaard thinking. Ford doesn't need to just keep up, the ccompany needs to lead with something terrific. When I look at the Zephyr, I see a Fusion with a Lincoln-esque grill (a la Versailles relationship to the Granada) and a rear end that is slightly different--ok, but not a standout. That is where the Zephyr is for me...not bad styling (and I could say the same about the Accord or Sonata), but no standout, like some of the Lincolns of the past. Further, why not buy the loaded Milan or Fusion? Same room, handling, drivetrain and you save some of the awful depreciation Zephyr owners will see.

    As for the LS, platforms can be modified. The Mustang platform is a derivative of the DEW98. So is the new Jaguar XJ sedan. If Lincoln had chosen to keep developing it, there could have been a new Town Car and/or Continental (for cost sharing) built off a modification of it. But what do I know? ;) It's dead regardless, and Lincoln is making the dubious decision to go front drive with all their sedans when the rest of the luxury car industry seems to be staying with or moving to RWD. Maybe it will work for them. We'll see.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Will you please get your facts straight?

    The only part of the mustang platform that is even remotely related to the DEW98 is the floor pan and fuel tank. That's it. Everything else is new, stiffer and cheaper.

    Lincoln is not going FWD with all their sedans. Only the Zephyr will be FWD - the 2 new D3 sedans will be AWD only. And I bet the Volvo/500 D3 platform cost a fraction of what the DEW98 platform would have cost, especially if you factor in the cost to convert to AWD.

    And there is just as much (or as little) difference between a Camry and an ES330 as there is between a Fusion and a Zephyr. The grilles and rear ends on the zephyr and fusion are totally different. The Camry/ES330 are almost identical.
  • You are right about the DEW98 platform. But my point, again if I am allowed to have one, is that (like Ford) Lincoln could have started with the DEW98 and made it cheaper (or more ubiquitous)--or even used the Mustang platform (which started as the DEW98 but of course ended up as something very different) as a base for a longer wheelbase 4 door. They didn't. End of story.

    I have to disagree with you about the Camry and ES 330. Although they share a platform and lots of other things, they do not share a single body panel in common. They even have different versions of what is essentially the same engine with different hp ratings. On the other hand, the Lincoln and Ford have the same windshield opening, same rear window opening, same door skins, same window glass openings, same roof, exact same engine...I could go on, but maybe you get the point. It is little more than badge engineering, which was the way of doing things between strapped divisions some years ago--not now.

    The grills and rear ends of the Fusion and Zephyr are different. However, every body panel is different between the Lexus and Camry and this has been so since the two were separate models back in the 80's. All I expect is that Ford make the same effort to differentiate their divisions as other companies do.

    BTW, I prefer Fusion/Zephyr styling to the Toyota cars. I am merely wishing Lincoln would give us something unique--like the difference between the S-Type and the LS, or the difference between the Mazda6 and the Fusion.
  • Oops...I forgot another point. Lincoln's forthcoming AWDs are all FWD with AWD added (sending power to the rear wheels as Audi does). The difference is that you cannot take a FWD converted to AWD, and cut off the FWD to get a RWD. True RWD have to be engineered as such.

    That is why the Jaguar T Type has gotten its largely undeserved criticism. It started as a FWD Mondeo. What Jaguar ended up with is very different in character from a Mondeo--and arguably much better--but the fact remains that the platform is FWD with AWD added. The AWD Mercedes sedan is based on RWD, with front drive added. A Mercedes could not reasonably be converted to FWD only by disconnecting the RWD, but it could be easily converted back to RWD by disconnecting the front.
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