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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,730
    Because 300s are butt ugly and noisy with a cheap interior?
  • Dollar for dollar it beats all of the others hands down. The interior is superior and the design is well done. For $28,500 for a car of that class. Good luck finding one to match it.
    By the way, the Avalon is so so so butt ugly, like it's brother the Camry.
  • Appreciate your reviews! Coincidentally I am in the process of purchasing identical model as you have described. I reside in Canada , as well. I am hoping that you can give me the price paid for the car as I am absolutely dreading the negotiation scheduled for later this week when I revisit the dealership. I would truly appreciate a a little guidance.
    As far as the car...I have test driven everything from the 330i , audi A4 2.0, 9-3 aero and cadillac CTS and as a package I can;t find a better choice. although not the best in any one category a fine contender in many and the price seems reasonable.
  • Hi all,

    This is my first post to this discussion.

    My wife and I test drove a loaded Zephyr last weekend and really liked it. Nice design (ext and int); features; large trunk; etc.. and good value (price; 4 yr warranty; no cost maintenance for 4 yrs; etc....).

    However - Crash test results a bit less than expected - only four starts (NHSTA?) instead of five (not yet tested by Insurance Institute.....); AND, no Electronic Stability Control (has almost every other safety feature, I think...).

    We have a two year old son and don't want to take any chances with the safety of the car we end up purchasing.

    Any comments?

    Thanks.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,730
    It's a very safe car. If it got 2 stars I'd be worried. Even Volvo S40s and S60s only get 4 stars.

    I don't understand all this hype about electronic stability control. I think it's a great feature but not having it does not make a car unsafe. If you're a safe driver to start with then the only time it's going to be needed is an unforseen slick spot on the road. I think it's far more necessary on a top heavy SUV or high powered sports car. I think it's overkill on a 221 hp FWD family sedan.

    If you like the car otherwise I wouldn't let those 2 things kill the deal.
  • About a month ago I checked out a Zephyr at a local dealership and left a less than glowing review on another board. I wasn't really negative, I just pointed out some areas I thought came up short for the market segment targeted. Because I really want to like this car, I had another visit. I guess the 3 things that bug me the most are the bulky rear end, that stupid hood prop rod (in a Lincoln!) and that big chrome center stack in the dash (looks like a metal monolith of some sort). Any rumours of an interior upgrade package? I notice Lexus, Infiniti, etc. offer premium options.
    The rear end won't be changing anytime soon. The hood prop could be easily rectified. As for the interior, quality materials but, too much metal and silver painted plastic for me (they should have used the Lexus ES for guidance).
    If this car is going to be a sales success, it will be for one reason - "bang for buck" (not a bad concept). It doesn't beat out the competion in any other area. It's not the most powerful or most fuel efficient, not the most comfortable or most quiet, doesn't have the best ride or most luxurious interior nor does it have a beautiful exterior. I like the big trunk but, I don't think people come to this market segment because of the trunk.
    All of this brings me to this. How are these things selling? I live in the Balto-Washington metro area and I have yet to see one on the road. I frequently pass two LM dealerships and the same Zephyrs have been on the lot for a month now. I think it important for a new car to come out of the gate with strong sales. I don't think sluggish sales ever turn into good sales w/o change. Take a look at the pre-preduction model. This is the car that should be in production. Beautiful exterior, gorgeous dash, console and guages. If this was the car on the market, I would already have one, not still thinking about it.
    Click here for pics of the Zephyr
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    The Zephyr isn't compelling. It has a lower price than an ES330 with similar options, but looks cheaper also.
    If you get a really good price and just consider it an upgrade over a loaded Milan it makes more sense.
    It dosn't seem to have anything special going for it that would make the resale value hold up.
    People will buy it on price new and will also only want it at a bargain price used.
  • Lincoln does not play with big guys like Lexus, Infinity, BMW or Mercedes anymore. It is more in competition with Acura and Buick – FWD lower end luxury cars.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,730
    That was a marketing decision driven primarily by the desire NOT to compete with Jaguar. Right now Ford and Lincoln needs profits and there is a lot more volume and potential customers in the $30-$45K price range than in the $50K+ price range.
  • Ford Motor Company's automotive luxury brand Lincoln is launching a new lifestyle-oriented custom website, http://www.lincolnlounge.com. The website will debut officially on Monday December 19..

    More, http://tinyurl.com/cmpao
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I was visiting just this past weekend with a few L/M dealerships in S.FL and shared some views. They only had 1-2 Zephyrs in stock and are impressed of how well they are selling, if anything, a bit quicker than the Milans on the lot.

    I asked if maybe they see a specific demographic that is opting the Z over the M, but they state it's all over the place. They did note, it wasn't really appealing to older demographics that would generally buy the GM/TC anyways. They have noticed that it's the fully optioned Zephyrs that are moving quickly. And from what sales figures show, the Milan and Zephyr are moving at an almost equal rate last month.

    They did point out that the Zephyr seems to catch the attention of males, while the Milan catches the female attention...Although they did have some male buyers that opted for the Milan because it was available in manual.

    From comments that they heard from their customers... Some have stated how well muted the Zephyr is, good overall handling/roadability, and the THX stereo system seems to be taking a higher take-rate than expected and even had one cutsomer opt to the higher Zephyr just because of how impressed he was.

    They have noticed trade-ins of all sorts, from gas guzzling SUV's, to other luxury V6 vehicle requiring premium gas. A few noted how the premium gas required on their previous luxury vehicle, and the higher price of gas that will continue as prime motivators.

    Let's see how things evolve in the coming months...
  • Does anyone have residuals and the money factor buy rate for a 36 or 39 month lease at 10K miles per year on the Zephyr? Thanks!!
  • flasvtflasvt Posts: 64
    I wonder if you visited the LM dealer where I bought my Mariner in Hollywood, FL. The service is amazing. Even better than the dealer where I service my SLK 230.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I did Margate (Holman), Hollywood, and Pines L/M. I received very positive comments from Margate and Hollywood...calling back to check on the customer the next day, asking other details about the persons life, etc. Just GETTING TO KNOW them. Can't comment on Pines, since I don't know anyone else who has visited them.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Mike;

    I know it's been a couple weeks since u posted, but thought I'd throw this out there in case you're still thinking.

    First - 4 stars on one rating and 5 stars on the rest is better than most out there.

    That said, you could get a 5 star all around car at your Lincoln dealer for about the same price as a loaded Zephyr - that would be a left over 2005 or real low mileage used LS. The LS is a better vehicle in most respects, you can get AdvanceTrak and is 5 stars all round. I've had my LS since 2001. 68,000 miles later it runs like the day I bought it. YMMV.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,422
    Yes, the LS is a better car, but it didn't sell very well (bland styling and a car Lincoln dealers didn't understand). Now Lincoln is going FWD/AWD when Infinity, Cadillac and Chrysler are moving back to RWD--where BMW and Mercedes have always been. The Zephyr should sell ok, but it would do better if they had started it at about $28,000 well equipped. For $36,000 loaded, there should have been more differentiation from a care like the Milan: an upgraded engine, a different roofline, AWD option, etc. This car, even with the 3.5 liter and AWD will never be seen at the top of its class. Yet one of these years, Lincoln will have to take that leap or it will continue to be an also-ran.

    There are some stopgap things that might have worked better than gussying up bland Fords. Lincoln could have upgraded the present Town Car chassis by adding stiffness and putting a modern body on it. Chopping the front and rear overhangs could get the thing down to 200 inches while retaining the same interior space. But they aren't going to do that. I predict a cautious Lincoln-looking Ford Five Hundred with AWD and perhaps a V-8. Probably good enough for ok sales, but Lincoln will never threaten Cadillac's sales until they take some risks.

    Lincoln did well at first with the Navigator. Instead of fully revising successful models regularly, Lincoln (like Ford and Mercury) does cautious updates. It's a shame what happened to the Continental, which had been a success in the 80's and early 90's.

    But you can look at any successful Ford and see the neglect over time. The Ranger has chassis dates back to the mid-80s. Prior to the current Mustang, the same Fox chassis underpinned the Mustang from 1979 through 2004. That's 25 years! The Mercury Marquis also dates to 1979, and the current body style to 1991. Get new beancounters, guys, who understand that the money has to go into innovative product.

    Sorry, didn't mean to be so blabby-mouthed. This is about Zephyr. There were high hopes and good reviews for the LS when it was introduced, but that wasn't enough to cut the mustard. I hope the Zephyr survives long enough for a re-style (more along the lines of the last few concept cars), more torque, and the electronics of a modern luxury car.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    Yes, some people will buy it if they don't wany to spend the extra money to get a Lexus ES or they have a habit or tradition of buying Lincolns, but it isn't compelling at all.
    Some people still buy the Town Car and Continental.

    It needs a better powertrain that is a class above the Milan's at the least. The interior could still be better.

    If Ford had a bargain lease deal to make up for the poor residuals (so I could get rid of it in 2 or 3 years without resale woes) I'd go look at one.
  • This argument about residuals is a joke. Look at the resale values of Lexus and Mercedes after 3 years. They also lose about 50% of their respective values. Don't kid yourselves, they don't hold their value nearly what the popular mindsets say that they do.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    50% of MSRP after 3 years is still much better than what anyone could expect from the Zephyr and most other cars.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    They said basically the same thing I did. "Not compelling."
    This message board's low volume of posts says as much.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    I must agree the Zephyr holds little interest for me. I saw one at the dealer and it was parked right next to a Milan. They look so similar front and rear, though I do think the Zephyr is a better looking car. But the Milan was like $24K with a fair amount of options and the Z was over $30K. At least $6K difference. How do they get the price up so high on the Z compared to the M? Here's one way - looking at the sticker price I saw they both had optional sunroofs. Except the one in the Milan cost $800 and the one in the Zephyr was $1200. Same size glass, $400 more. I think I'll pass on this one Lincoln.

    Now to the LS, which I bought new in 2001. Actually I think it was a pretty good seller for Lincoln. Though not as good as could have been if the dealers had bothered to understand it. It amazes me whenever I go car shopping, no matter what the brand I always know more about the car than any sales person I talk to. Dealers and sales people just want stuff that sells itself like a Mustang or F150. The rest is just taking up space.

    The LS rear end may be kinda bland looking but I love the design of the rest of the car. THe front is low and mean looking and the profile is really classy and aggressive looking.

    One more thing - I've seen the new Lincolns that are based on the 500-type architecture and believe me, they are anything but conservative. I don't know about powertrains etc but if they have a version of the mod V8 available to distinguish from the 500/Montego they will be quite the cars.

    Merry Christmas all, or whatever your pleasure.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,730
    Sorry George - no modular V8s for the D3 based cars. But Volvo has some nice inline 6's and a Yamaha V8 available.
  • flasvtflasvt Posts: 64
    I purchased from Hollywood LM, also a Holman dealership. Great service. Would go back, if the have the right car :)
  • navigator89navigator89 Posts: 1,080
    Where did you find pictures of the new Lincolns? Could you post some?
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    He said he had SEEN the new Lincolns...not pictures of them. I am pretty sure Ford has tried its level best at this point to be sure there are no pictures out there of those yet to be produced Lincolns...
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,730
    Right - he was invited to a special focus group. They didn't say what the cars were but it's not that hard to tell. It was very early though to the final cars could look nothing like the early prototypes.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Here's a teaser pic of one of the headlights from one of the new Lincoln sedans...

    link
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "Where did you find pictures of the new Lincolns? Could you post some?"

    Like akirby and johnc said - no photos just focus group memories. There were about 10 vehicles and 2 were new Lincolns. All badges were covered but it was easy to know what was what. The 2 Lincolns were better looking by far than the others (IMHO) - an Infiniti 'M' and Lexus 4xx - both those cars are overdone and a bit 'chubby', to my taste. The Cadillacs - well we all have differing opinions about those. I tend to like em, but they pale next to these L sedans. I forget the rest. The L interior was a mock up so that's their last design element. It was good too, thought the Japanese cars set a high value precedent. The Caddy interiors were sorry in comparison.

    We weren't supposed to talk to one another, but I did ask a couple of folks which of the 10 was their favorite - they both said the bigger of the 2 Lincolns. My fav was the smaller (not much smaller) of the 2 cause it was sportier.

    Last, someone mentioned that the new Lincolns would probably be 'conservative' and I disagreed. If u don't believe me, take a look at the teaser ANT posted. Anything conservative about that?? :>)
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