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Comments
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http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2006-Lincoln-Zephyr.htm
I don't know what happens at Ford. They are too scared to take risks and at the same time do what is necessary. To me it is quite easy.
A. Build it in America (it's a Lincoln, it can carry the premium)
B. Bring out the concept AS IS just like Chrysler and Mazda who are both looked at as great on design.
C. Design a modern, flowing interior like Cadi has done or what Lincoln showed with the MKS and concept Aviator. Matter of fact this is taken care of in B. For all else interior wise, copy Toyota as to interior size, plastic quality, panel gap. materials, packaging, etc.
Guaranteed hit.
I have no idea why they took the tail lights in such a different direction. The production ones certainly don't look more elegant and I can't imagine that they are much cheaper either.
"or all else interior wise, copy Toyota as to interior size, plastic quality, panel gap. materials, packaging, etc. "
I hope not, Toyota interior quality in my opinion has dropped from some copies I've dealt with. Let alone, I have an issue with the cheap mousefur carpet they use on some vehicles, and the spray on-like felt headliner on many of their vehicles... Thats there way to cut corners, so it's understandable. For interiors, it's VW/Audi that sets the benchmark...it's just a shame that the package it's on is as unreliable as a Kia.
For years I complained because all the concept vehicles were being designed, yet NOTHING would hit the market. This was a major gripe I had with Ford. Teasing people with concepts such as the 427, the drivetrain of the Meta One, the Continental, the Navi-cross (which was a jump and a skip away from being produced) that never made it remotely. The most that made it was the 427 Grill onto the Fusion.
And because of that, now concepts will be much closer to reality, than the above mentioned vehicles. These being the Lincoln MKS for example, this Zephyr/MKZ. The changes made from the concept to the production are not as dramatic, b ut yet are feasable.
So, is it better to have a few changes, or not have a vehicle at all? Personally the spending budget on concept vehicles/teasers that never will see the light has been slashed heavily
I owned a 2000 Camry Solara and a 2005 Camry XLE and both of these interiors were superlative for the price range. The 2005 Camry XLE interior could have passed for a $37,000 car. 99% of the domestics are nowhere close to Toyota/Honda in interior fit and finish. In fact the Zephyr is the 1% at least in the ball park IMO.
And thats the main reason the domestics have improved their interior... for quality perception. VW has proved time and tiem again, and have rated tops in "quality perception" surveys because of the quality of their materials, senses, colors, woods, surfaces, etc.
Ford itself has improved cabin furnishes budget 3 timesfold per vehicle, and as displayed by a few recent entries, it's evident. Of course, I can always point out where some of the shortcuts were taken...but that would be cheating if I shared that
I am with you on Audi interiors, the A8 interior kills BMW/Mercedes/Jaguar in that price range. Stunning is the word. I really really want to love American cars, but the one GLARING place where they fall short year after year after year is interiors. GM is the all time worst of course. A Lexus ES 330 interior (and the new 350 coming out) absolutely embarrasses the Cadillac STS interior.
GM legacy costs built into each vehicle leads to cost cutting which means hard plastics, cheap plastics and the sharing of Chevy Aveo knobs in a 50,000 caddy. It is a disgrace to me. Thank the Lord the new Tahoe/Escalade got a major upgrade but of course those are SUV's which GM has proven it can do. The Mercury Milan interior is full or hard cheap plastic and that awful faux aluminum plastic. When it come to passenger car interiors Chrysler/Doge/GM/Ford are not in the same hemisphere as Audi/Lexus(the king)/Toyota/Honda/Acura/VW/Infiniti.
GM has even managed to ruin Saab's interiors.
I doubt that had anything to do with removing the elegant details from the Zephyr concept front bumper, and the exhaust outlets of the rear bumper. I suggest it was cost savings...and poor judgment. Same with plopping open, dirt catching cup holders in the console of everything up to and including the most expensive Navigator.
No one complains about Toyota interiors. With Lincoln I was really talking about Lexus, not really Toyota itself but again, I have very very very very rarely heard a complaint about plastics, panel gap, and quality of a Toyota. Sure Audi is better, but Audi spends a lot of time and monay in design and seems to run out by the time they get too quality. I am not asking for an Audi interior in a Lincoln. I mean come on, they need to make money here. Instead, I'd take the Lexus IS interior in a Zephyr. Not so much the design but the plastic quality, and attention to detail. I do believe the Lexus design is better than the Lincoln one but that is a different story. The Zephyr should have looked just like the concept with a 3.5 at 270 and a price tag of $30K. With that should have come an interior that could rival a 3 Series. This did not come to be, so a lot of us feel slighted. Ford needs to pull out all the stops and put products on the market that don't just equal but are above the competition. Look at the Sonata for an example or the Acura TL. You can't say much is worse than the competition at the price but you can say a whole lot is better about those cars in comparison to the competition at that price.
I understand that, but please don't drink the Kool-aid.
Who can possibly think "over-promise and under-deliver" is a way to gain credibility? Somehow other manufacturers are capable of making vehicles that look sleek and like the prototypes/show cars. I really think Ford has a certain contempt for the public and thinks people aren't smart enough to notice the compromises.
They better accept that they've been wrong and it's time to change, or Billy might be remembered at the LAST famous Ford.
EXACTLY. With those wheels and Rims. It would have been such a massive hit. As the Chrysler 300 proves, Americans CAN compete in sales if the car looks great AND can be had with a lot of horsepower. The Zephyr concept looked GREAT. The production car merely looks good with a sufficient powertrain. It fails both tests, not miserably mind you but enough to make you shake your head. When you are a struggling company with an senior citizen image that doesn't cut it. It won't take buyers away from Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Acura etc.
As an example a local mall by me had a 300C Chrysler on display, all decked with the HEMI stickering for about 34,500. Upstairs there was a Lexus GS430 stickering for 52,000. I would buy the 300. More power, roomier, much better looking. 18 grand less. I would buy it based on those factors knowing full well a Chrysler 300 can't match the Lexus in quality, reliability, interior elegance etc. Judging by it's success many buyers must feel the same way.
Lincoln is never going to out refine or out reliable the Japanese. What they should do is out design them as far as looks and then outpower them with good old american muscle.
You've obviously not read any recent J.D. Power Surveys on long term reliability. See for yourself:
I saw an A6 yesterday, and then thought of the A8, the TT, the A4, the new Q7, and recognized that they all have
"sleek flush" front ends. People universally praise Audi designs and I haven't heard they do terrible in crash tests. Aagain, I think that what has been said is a little off. It can be done, Aaudi is doing it time and again. And also check a VW Jetta or new Passat. Same thing is the case. If VW can do it, so can Lincoln.
It took me 4 months to decide to buy a Zeph and I bought one mostly because in that price range not much else interested me and I needed a new car. The Zeph is not bad but, every time I approach the car I think "man the concept looked sharp, this is so boring." And the concept interior was much nicer. Just too much metal and gray plastic in the production model. The concept with the 3.5 would have been an absolute killer and a market segment leader.
Another thing Ford has to do is not only put more powerful engines in their cars (despite those few of you that say the power in fine, the majority of buyers want more) but, make them more fuel efficient. My Zeph gets 1 mile less around town than my 10 year old Maxima with 182,000 miles and 4 speed auto got. On the highway it's 2 MPG less. These are actual numbers not EPA estimates. This is what 10 years of innovation and a 6 speed get you? Check the Avalon and new ES350 estimates. They weigh 100 to 200 lbs more than the Zeph, have 50 more HP and get 1 & 3 more MPG. C'mon! Ford can't do any bettere than this?
I don't think things are really going to markedly improve at Ford until there is a total management replacement. Those currently making the decisions just don't have a clue. This includes replacing the car's name and engine 3 months after the car went into production. Total BS and stupidity! Remember, all of this is coming from a Zeph owner.
We all wish they hadn't gotten so far behind in the first place but given that I think they're headed in the right direction.
Hitting one out of the park could really help, but it doesn't matter. Lincoln is not introducing anything in the foreseeable future that has any chance of flying that high.
Let's hope the ok efforts that the Z, X and S represent are followed by something uniquely Lincoln-esque. The S at least goes beyond the badge engineering that the Z and X barely escape, but it doesn't appear to have the soul to incite a passionate following either.
I disagree. THis is more comparible to a team getting the ball after the two minute warning. What do you do? If they are on your bench you bring in Tom Brady and Terrell Owens with Jerry Rice as the other receiver. What I am trying to say is YOU GIVE IT YOUR BEST. If the production Zzephyr can sell without incentives, than the concept Zephyr which was a FAR FAR better car, could sell with a premium! Sort of like a 300C. All the Zeohyr needed was the concept produced "as is", an AWD system and 270 horses under the hood. All of which were possible. If you like the current sales numbers, you would have loved the concepts because the concept actually could have ran agianst and made a very serious case against buying a 3-Series, a G35, and made the base line CTS look like a car for the incompetent.
I have said it time and time again. Ford has too many business men and not enough car guys. GM, conversly, has too many car guys and not enough business men.
Oh wait this Ford not Lexus so there goes those ideas.
LOL. My friend has three Camries! One is for his wife, another - the older one he gave to his son and bought himself a new Camry.
The car you suggested would likely not have needed them...like the 300 didn't need them until recently.
My neighbor has two camrys. The lady across the st from me has a camry. The guy two houses down has a camry. Two more houese down another Camry and a Sienna. It's unreal.
I really hope Ford doesn't make us wait an eternity for the changes.
However, personal experiences aside, it is pretty clear that even though you can find Toyota lemons, their overall reliability has been tops for a long time. I hope Mercury gets there and stays there before Ford kills that division.
I do hate to see a name change, makes me feel like I just purchased something obsolete. Will I be able to sell it or maybe it will become a collectors item!
The LS did much better right after its introduction than what the Zephyr is doing now (LS sold 51,000 units in 2000, outselling even the ES300). So Zephyr isn't doing all that much for the brand, especially with Lincoln promoting the heck out of it--on top of it being a less expensive car than the LS was.
Perhaps the 3.5 will make all the difference.
Detroit News Article
And to say that Milan sales are a "bit soft" is an understatement. Sales of this car are atrocious, considering how good it is, and how current it is. Bye, bye, Mercury.
I've heard this argument before in an attempt to explain slumping Explorer sales as "planned," through plant closings and lower production. Sure, Ford planned to sell less of the redesigned 2006 Explorers than the 2005s, even though the segment itself is not down anywhere near percentage-wise the sales Explorer has lost.
It's numbers that matter, units moved. Doing somewhat better than some realistic projection--based on the fact that Ford sales have decreased 10 years straight--is not going to turn this mess around. When a family unfriendly Mustang and a pterodactyl like the Taurus can handily outsell a great vehicle like the Fusion, Ford's got a problem, not a hit.
* Bluetooth phone connectivity
* MP3 (aux audio in) connector
* Any exterior design changes to bring it closer to the concept model
And does anyone know when it is coming out? I read september somewhere around here - how solid is that date?
They're keeping an entire plant near capacity and selling vehicles without huge incentives and which are making a profit. And that's BEFORE the new engine and AWD plus other 2007 additions. To increase capacity now would require another plant with huge incremental costs. Overproduction and lack of updates are what got Ford into this mess and from all appearances they're doing neither with the Zephyr. What more do you want? The ES350 is expected to sell 70K units a year. That's a 15 yr old model. It didn't sell anywhere near that much when it debuted. The Zephyr is only 6 months old and you're already writing it off? Give it some time.
That being said, I think the MKS is an excellent step in the right direction. They should treat every product they have like they treat the F-150 and the Mustang. If they did, we'd wonder why Honda and Toyota even try.
The issue with the 3.5L engine (besides the fact that it's 2 years late) is simply production capacity. They need the engines for the Edge, Mark X and Mark Z first. Maybe Fields can get the production capacity ramped up quicker so the other cars can get the 3.5L sooner.
I also think the production version is a lot closer to the concept than people think. The concept had 21" wheels, a larger C pillar which probably blocked rear visibility and smaller side mirrors. Other than that the difference are very minor.
BTW, the ES350 has been doing well for many years. In fact, lots of vehicles do much better than projections in their very first model year, and somehow companies often find a way to increase production to support speeding sales.
Some even do their best sales in the first year. An example I already mentioned is the LS, which sold 51,000 units in 2000, something Zephyr has no hope of doing.
And you can't have it both ways. Ford has excess capacity (due to longstanding, falling sales from that point where they were poised to challenge GM for dominance). Now, they are going through yet another restructuring, which includes expensive plant closings. At the same time, they cannot produce quite enough of some of their products.
Overproduction and lack of updates have nothing to do with the Fusion triplets situation right now. Some increased production might in fact spur sales. However, no one is paying a premium right now for any of them, and all three are being sold with incentives, albeit smaller than those on some of Ford's slow movers--like the new 2006 Explorer and Mountaineer.
Increasing production to sell more Zephyrs would work in smaller numbers, but if production could be increased to the level of first year LS production, then overproduction problems would definitely ensue.
I've been giving Ford some time. We waited years for the 500/Montego twins, and they failed to hit the market like Mustang and Taurus and Explorer and Expedition and Focus did. They did "ok." The "crossover" Freestyle didn't meet expectations at all. The "new" Freestar just literally tanked. Now, after another year of waiting, the Fusion triplets are doing "ok."
Ford needs some stars, as well as the harrowig problem of having to scramble to find more capacity right now. Though dealers could use a greater choice of Zephyrs on their lots that now available, people are not standing in line to buy it or putting down deposits on cars that cannot be delivered for a year or more. That's when it really pays to pull out the stops and find more capacity.
Sometimes correcting deficits relatively quickly after introduction doesn't result in the expected jump in sales. When Lincoln redesigned the previously successful Continental in 1995, they missed the mark with a lot of details for a car aimed at the Seville/STS. By 1998, they had corrected many of the gaffs like the goofy rear styling, and the power shortage. They even spent gobs of money on details like increasing the rake of the windshield to improve the proportions. For that era, one could even say it became a pretty car. But it was too late.
Out of the box, Ford, out of the box. Ford introduces things piecemeal that other companies like Toyota bring out on a model all at once. Maybe the MTZ, with 3.5 and AWD, will be perceived differently than the Zephyr and really hit. Let's hope so, for Lincoln's sake.
I understand the first design of the Fusion had the 500 front end. Could you imagine the Fusion with a 500 nose and the Futura name? Thank goodness Horbury was able to fix it before production. He was not able to fix the 500's bland styling so that has to wait another year.
If you compare Ford's 2007 car/crossover lineup with it's 2004 car/crossover lineup I think it's fair to say it's night and day. The 500/Montego/Freestyle need styling updates and more power. The Fusion/Milan need performance versions with the 3.5L engine. They need to offer more amenities on the lower end models like Honda and Toyota.
And yes, I totally agree they need to debut the vehicles with more power and features. In Ford's defense I think they've been really focusing on quality for new vehicle launches and purposely limiting changes and new features. At least that seems to be working given the launch record of the F150, Mustang, 500 and Fusion. No major problems with any of those vehicles.
I think they're starting to fix that also. The Edge will have the 3.5L engine instead of the 3.0. It also comes with the vista roof and Nav option on day 1. I don't think that would have happened 2 years ago.
Your problem seems to be the lack of differentiation between the Edge and the MkX. If the Edge didn't exist then I bet the MkX would be just fine.
I didn't mean to imply that the MKX was goofy or not fine. It is fine, and I suspect it will sell well, regardless of it sharing practically all body panels with the Edge.
However, the Aviator concept had a much better contoured and shaped grill (suggesting past Lincolns), and more refined headlights. The headlights in fact have a look somewhat like 2007 Navi headlights. The chrome strip on the fenders going up over the roof is a modern interpretation of classic Lincoln design. The sides are more "slab sided," and the roofline and windows more easily suggest a modern link with past Lincoln vehicles.
If Ford has to share body panels on their crossovers for awhile, I wish they had taken the Aviator and de-contented it and Ford-ized the front end and fender tops to make the Edge. I further hope that in the future, they can differentiate the two at least as much as the Nissan Murano/Infiniti FX pair or the Highlander/RX330 pair.