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  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Platform sharing can be both good and bad. There's also a definite difference between platform sharing and "rebadging". I agree, everybody platform shares. You have to if you want to stand any chance of competing in today's cut-throat automarket. BTW, the Passat and A4\A6 are no longer related in any way, and the GS and Avalon have never shared anything.

    Something like 40% of the ES330 comes from the Camry, which allows Lexus to sell the ES for a very reasonable price. Thats fine. What's not fine was the old Maxima GLE and Infiniti I35, which were the exact same car except for the styling differences. Thats a rebadge, which is bad.

    The original IS was pulled from the JDM Altezza, and was not related to any US market Toyota. The new one is built on a chopped version of the GS's platform, so I'm not sure what you were going for there.

    The RL uses Honda's global midsize architecture, the same one thats under the Accord. The M35\45 use a lengthened version of Nissan's front-midship architecture, which is in almost everything they make. That doesnt mean I would call the RL a rebadged Accord or the M a rebadged Maxima. The GS doesnt use any mass-market US Toyota platform, but that doesnt make it a better car than either RL or M. I just think Acura dropped the ball with the RL styling, which is so anonymous it could be a Honda "insert name here".
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    " The GS and the Avalon have never shared anything" Yeah I totally agree, other than THE WAY THEY LOOK they've never shared anything. They look as much like each other as the RL -Accord look.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    All I'm saying is all these cars have styling traits of there less expensive cousins. Please don't tell me the A6 shares nothing with new Passat. There are a lot of styling similarities. Same with the A4 and the Jetta. What I'm talking about is the styling which is what most people hate about the RL. Yeah it shares a platform. Anybody that thinks these two cars drive the same is welcome to there own opinion. As well as two tickets to whackyville where The new mayor Michael Jackson is handing out keys to the city. As far as the IS, I never mentioned it so I'm not sure where you were going with it.
    One guy farther back was upset because the RL got high marks for luxury, but low marks for style. In other words he thought that the two were one in the same. I've never gotten a luxurious feeling from being on the oustside of 500 thread count sheats.
    In conclusion, I say drive what you want. Just don't bash the RL for looking like an Accord as you drive away in your look-a-like Lexus Avalon
  • cmybimmergocmybimmergo Member Posts: 265
    Hokay, you have my sympathy, but (and I apologize if this is a stupid question) how the heck do you gouge the side of a car with an appendage that juts off the back of a vehicle?

    Too bad you don't know who the dingbat is who did it...
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    "The M35\45 use a lengthened version of Nissan's front-midship architecture, which is in almost everything they make."

    Actually, only four U.S. models use the FM platform: The G, 350Z, FX and now the M.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I really dont see that much of a resemblance in the current GS and Avalon. Its not like the CLK and SL, where I cant tell them apart from the front.
  • worldskiworldski Member Posts: 14
    Has anybody read the comparo of midsize luxury sedans by Consumer reports and who won
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "The original IS was pulled from the JDM Altezza, and was not related to any US market Toyota. The new one is built on a chopped version of the GS's platform, so I'm not sure what you were going for there."

    I was merely going to point out that the original IS was a rebadged Altezza.
  • docnukemdocnukem Member Posts: 485
    Yup, and the M is the only Nissan/Infiniti using the new FM platform.

    It's Nissan's V6 engine that gets shared around with most of its vehicles in different tweaked forms...but it is a great engine.
  • lexi300lexi300 Member Posts: 36
    Didn't realize that; thanks!
  • mnrep2mnrep2 Member Posts: 200
    The G35 and the FX series are based on the same FM platform as the M. I own the G35x. :D
  • docnukemdocnukem Member Posts: 485
    Not exactly true. The components of the enhanced/next-generation FM platform on the M are 60% new. This mainly achieved greater torsional rigidity.

    link title
  • mvs1mvs1 Member Posts: 462
    Shouldn't cars from the same brand look similar???

    Kinda like Michael and Latoya.......... :P
  • docnukemdocnukem Member Posts: 485
    Kinda like Michael and Latoya..........

    Similar, yes...identical, no.
  • mvs1mvs1 Member Posts: 462
    Identical is going overboard a bit, platform sharing is a manufacturing necessity, re-badging is another thing all to itself.....

    Every make has a family resemblance even between a brands luxury line Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, etc.........GM touts you get a little corvette in every Chevy, not sure what parts made in into a Suburban???
  • docnukemdocnukem Member Posts: 485
    I agree with you. My identical comment was not intended to reflect upon cars in the current discussion (I was LOLing about your Jackson comment). However, if you go back, you will find identical vehicles (rebadging to the nth degree). Weren't the Omega and Cimarron identical (and as LG pointed out, the Maxima and I)?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The lone 2004 or newer, I'm not sure, Passat, in my parking lot does indeed look like an Audi cousin. The door pulls (interior) were dead on identical to the door pulls on my 2003 allroad, other bits and pieces (look at the engine -- an "Audi" 2.8) are also from the VW/Audi group (if they're not they missed an opportunity for volume discounts on some of the switchgear.)

    Does this mean those of us who buy Lexus vs Toyota or Audi vs VW have paid for the four intertwining rings instead of the VW logo?

    Beats me.

    The new Passat (I swas one today) looks like it is related to the new A6, only a little smaller. The wheels aren't pushed out as far to the corners, the overhangs, therefore look different. The new Passat grill looks more like the last generation Audi rather than the trout mouth, but I certainly can see the trout mouth of the new Audi being able to be "forming" in the the VW.

    Maybe I joined the discussion too late -- was the effort to suggest that the "emperor has no clothes?" Or was it just to note that Infiniti gets stuff from Nissan and that the Toyotas look something like the Lexus (or vice versa depending on your spin, I presume.)

    I certainly see the Honda in the Acura RL -- but that is not exactly a BAD thing, is it? I don't like the size of the RL (a little, anyway,) I certainly do believe the RL is much more car than the Accord, for example.

    Man, go away for a long weekend, and look what happens -- 71 messages since Friday!
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    With 68 of them from "Audi Financial Services." ;)
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Yes, and you get a lot of Cavalier in every Corvette-
    and every other car in GM's lineup.
  • mvs1mvs1 Member Posts: 462
    speaking of Audi....Mark did you ever disclose your current A6 deal? Or did Audi swear you to secrecy???
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Ouch!
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    LOL! ;)
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    To answer your question, the Infiniti M35 won the CR comparo.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    No secrecy.

    My bottom line was $53,286 MSRP. The car was discounted from what I can recall from the lease document some 10%+.

    My up fronts were "essentially" forgiven (no sec dep, just a plate transfer fee from the allroad to the A6 plus the first month's payment, I rolled the tax into the thing here in Ohio they can stick it to you.)

    My monthly payment, the amount the the check I write is $669.40/36 months 15K miles per year.

    My final allroad lease payment was also waived.

    The apples to apples comparison (and I factored in a fudge factor for the improved gas milage of the Audi versus the Infiniti and another estimate for the maint, which is free on the Audi and fee on the Infiniti) that I came up with was that the cost between the two cars was in the Audi's favor about $110 per month.

    This isn't the prices paid board, but since this was a down to the wire comparison of two cars -- either one of which I would have probably enjoyed (the Audi was my first choice, but not for what was at the time $180 more per month on a lease) -- that were LPS cars, I state this for y'all's dining and dancing pleasure.

    Recently (here and on other blogs) I have seen that similar deals have been or are still being given. Perhaps the noise I made did help -- and I am pleased with the car (as I knew I would be) and the deal.

    I wonder, from time to time, what it would be like with the Infinti M35X -- I still think it is a hell of a car. Overall, though, I look forward to getting behind the wheel and pushing the start button every morning.

    I must be old, cause what I enjoy a lot is Sirius Sat radio and the voice command of all the important stuff -- there are 80+ buttons and knobs and switches for the driver to play with, and voice command makes me spend more time driving and less time paying attention to what button to push next.

    :shades:
  • brandonh961brandonh961 Member Posts: 5
    Yes, and you get a lot of Cavalier in every Corvette and every other car in GM's lineup.

    The Cavalier is no longer a GM product there buddy. Oh and wow you know your Toyotas but did you know that the Altezza had the the same body as an IS300 but the engine is 250 not 300 and oh the left hand steering if you didn't know...
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I'm aware that the venerable Cavalier has been replaced with the (almost identical) Cobalt - they're interchangeable IMO.

    I guess IS250 would sound unsophisticated for a Lexus... I believe they make Altezzas in left or right hand drive, depending on whether they stay in Japan, or are exported to Samoa.....
  • chidorochidoro Member Posts: 125
    Even more impressive was that th M35x was not only their top rated sedan, it outscored all of their full-sized premium luxury sedans. There is very little room for that bar to grow under their road test score.
  • hihomikehihomike Member Posts: 111
    I just read the Consumer Reports "report" on the M35. It was interesting in the aricle that they said "...the surprise of the test is the M35, which is now our top-rated sedan. It even outscores all of our tested full-size premium luxury sedans." I wonder why they were so surprised? Infiniti has been increasing sales each year by 15%+ mainly due to their engines, styling, quality build, handling and luxury. They are not the same company that produced Q45's and I35's for the older crowd who prefer the soft, cushy ride.

    When I was at the Infiniti dealership last, you don't see the "older" crowd there any more - you see the 18-28 crowd cloistered around the G35 coupe; the Yuppie crowd cloistered around the M35/45; the family oriented crowd cloistered around the QX56 and FX35; and a nice mix crowd cloistered around the G35 sedan.

    Infiniti has taken on BMW with avengence - sport, handling, performance. Doesn't sound much like Lexus to me, but more like Audi/BMW/Mercedes "fighten" words.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I guess they figured that when LS was beating Q and ES was beating I by 50,000% or so, its time to stop targeting Lexus and go after the brands that Lexus does not target.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    A little "boost" for the Tech Packages?

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/08/09/139883.html
  • hihomikehihomike Member Posts: 111
    I agree with your assessment, lexusguy. I just saw the reports for July, and Infiniti is up 15.7% in sales overall when compared to one year ago. That increase has to be coming from "conquest" type sales (taking sales away from other makes/models). The G35 Coupe has a 25% market share in the sport/coupe category, which is impressive. Also, the M35/45 has been selling at a phenominal pace according to reports I have seen. And Consumer Reports coming out with "best overall sedan, sport and luxury", it can't hurt them at all.

    I still love my 530i (2006), but the competition from Infiniti aimed at Audi, Acura, BMW and Mercedes Benz, can only cause BMW to carefully analyze why Consumer Reports didn't even compare the 530 i (or the Mercedes E350) because of worse than expected reliability. In order to maintain their market share, the competition must improve their build quality.

    I've been lucky so far with my Bimmer, but I'm expecting problems down the road, to be sure, if my car is anything like the average BMW. But I'm willing to accept that fate due to the ride, handling and improved engine performance with the 255 hp version.
  • purplem46purplem46 Member Posts: 54
    Can anyone site the edition # and date of the Consumer Report issue that carries that story on the M35 comparo? Is it online? Can the magazine be picked up at a newstand or just by subscription? thanks.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    "I've been lucky so far with my Bimmer, but I'm expecting problems down the road, to be sure, if my car is anything like the average BMW. But I'm willing to accept that fate due to the ride, handling and improved engine performance with the 255 hp version."

    My 2003 530SP has been absolutely flawless in every way (1/03 purchase date). Not so much as a warning light has illuminated! I'm sure your new 530 will provide years of enjoyable motoring. Just drive it the way it was intended to be driven... guessing the new 255HP engine is sweet.

    I will be hard pressed to let go of this one... even for the new e60. Handling, steering and performance of that sweet 6 would be hard to walk away from. My German buddies tell me that I have their favorite iteration of the 5er (aside from the M5, that is!).
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Online you need a subscription, consumerreports.org.

    Pretty much any public library would have it.

    Newstands also.
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Member Posts: 692
    The M35 comparo is in the current issue of Consumer Reports (Sept.) on newstands now. Available everywhere. They have a circulation of 4 million.
  • bondguy1bondguy1 Member Posts: 231
    Even though they're different companies, I think the new GS looks a lot like the Nissan Maxima...a LOT like the Nissan Maxima.
  • bondguy1bondguy1 Member Posts: 231
    Heck...all anyone was talking about was the looks...the RL DOES have boring styling...that's an opinion but it's apparently a common opinion unless you own one. I have owned cars (japanese cars) in years past that weren't the nicest looking outside but were comfortable and nice looking inside. You're the one that spends the time "inside" of the car. Too many people on this forum take things too personally...if somebody doesn't like the way the car I drive looks, I don't care. I bought it for ME. If everybody liked the same car, there wouldn't be so many to choose from. I think the other big thing Acura shoud address is the fact that Acura is the only one of all the Japanese High Line cars and most of the German cars that doesn't offer a V8 engine. Why don't we go there if you're really trying to defend the RL. Why is this the case? The TL has much better styling than the RL...They should have this styling for the RL, the Acura flagship car. Audi offers an 8, Infiniti offers an 8, Lexus offers an 8, Mercedes/8. I think Acura has more cool gadgets than all the other cars and it is great looking inside. I never even considered it as a choice when looking because of the boring styling. It's a shame because they have a great quality reputation.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Last I looked, my fabulous 545i has an 8.
  • frisconickfrisconick Member Posts: 1,275
    Test drove a G coupe, and it was a blast, I thought the M was just too big. But you are correct, Infiniti has really improved their cars, even for us 43 youngsters. :P
  • hihomikehihomike Member Posts: 111
    I really do enjoy the new 255hp engine - magnesium/aluminum alloy inline 6. Lighter weight and more horsepower - a dream come true.

    I hope you are right about this new 530i. So far it "has" been flawless, but it's only 4 months old and only 2500 miles on it.

    As it ages and breaks in, I must admit it drives and handles even better. It has the horsepower that was needed for some time in the 6 cylinder version. As for the new M-5, it will be sweet but a bit too rich for my blood, if you know what I mean. 80,000 is my estimated pricing with the options I'd add, and for $80,000, you can buy 1/2 a 3 bedroom home.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    No one's crystal ball is clear. However, I attended a presentation recently about the US (and global) economy. When "regular" reaches $3.40 will be the beginning, just a smidge mind you, of "pause at the pumps."

    Coupled with higher interest rates -- gulp.

    After several years of having V8's and one 2.7T turbo (very thirsty), I opted for the Audi V6 FSI specifically because I am certain $3.00/gallon regular will be a (~) 2005 event. Perhaps this is insane to be buying $50K+ cars and looking at gas prices as "an issue."

    Perhaps it is -- but the larger concern, beyond the obvious is the imact on "everything" not just my upper-middle-class lifestyle and ability to buy gas.

    Here is the "shocker" -- some authors are writing that $5.00 per gallon, while not near term likely, is not a distant far off event.

    OK, the flip side is at $70/bbl of oil, getting abundant (?) oil from Canada that was previously non econmically feasible to go after becomes an economic and technological "no brainer."

    I am neither a fan nor a foe of Lexus -- but the upcoming hybrid LPS car "ought" to be just what we need (as well as several other technologies.)

    I would expect the LPS cars to "pioneer" performance and new fuel saving technologies.

    Even my 3.2FSI seems to sip gas considering the size car it is in (my A6).

    We live in "interesting times."
  • rich545rich545 Member Posts: 386
    Well, my 545 has got about 15,000 miles on it and it's been flawless so there is reason to hope. Honestly, most of the issues with the E60 have been recalls for software upgrades which, while they are a pain, are not unusual for a newly redesigned car. E60's have not been plagued by the type of problems that say, the E Class has had (and it's been around long enough to be better frankly). I think that since we're getting into year three of the design it's probably going to be much better. Sure, there will be a car here and there that just weren't put together poperly, but in general I think it will be a reliable car (as far as German cars go that is).
  • hihomikehihomike Member Posts: 111
    I agree!!! The only issue I've had was an error message on my odometer screen (as opposed to the I-drive screen) showing SOS not working. That's the BMW assist signal. They did everything trying to isolate the problem, but finally gave up on it and installed a whole new piece of software ($2000+ part) but every so often it still shows up. All I do is shut the engine off, restart it, and it's working again. So it is obviously some sort of a glitch that I will learn to live with. Otherwise, the 530i 06 has been flawless in performance, fuel economy, handling, etc. At least my 530i has not had any mechanical problems.

    The main problem with BMW service centers is that they are so overwhelmed with work for warranty issues that unless you have an emergency, you need to wait a while for a loaner car and an appointment.

    I would assume in smaller towns with less population density, this is not an issue, but in large populations centers like the southeast coast of Florida, New York, New Jersey, Chicago, LA, SF, etc., it is a problem.

    I am the executive assistant to the owner of an Infiniti dealer down here, and we do not have the same problems as BMW. We have loaners, we can take care of customers, and don't have major issues with the Infiniti line.

    Thanks for the input, and enjoy yoru 545
  • rich545rich545 Member Posts: 386
    That's not really true at my dealership which is one of the largest in the suburbs of Chicago (about 20 minutes from downtown). They always get me in quickly and have a loaner waiting if I need one.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    "We believe this legislation will accelerate more widespread adoption of our LDW system and other intelligent vehicle technologies that help make our highway travel much safer."

    Wow! :surprise: :surprise: Talk about big business controlling the government!! :surprise:
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    BMW 545i:
    350 miles.
    Flawless performance.
    Flawless iDrive.
    A rocket on wheels.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 237,075
    .. and it uses a lot of gas?

    Go figure!! :surprise:

    Seriously... it would be worth it, to me...

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  • janssenjanssen Member Posts: 74
    I am the executive assistant to the owner of an Infiniti dealer down here, and we do not have the same problems as BMW. We have loaners, we can take care of customers, and don't have major issues with the Infiniti line.

    I am curious, having been a BMW owner, and now being an Infiniti owner:

    Why the difference? Is it dealership-dependent, or is it a difference in corporate culture?
  • warthogwarthog Member Posts: 216
    hihomike wrote: "The main problem with BMW service centers is that they are so overwhelmed with work for warranty issues that unless you have an emergency, you need to wait a while for a loaner car and an appointment."

    I'm a BMW owner in Charlotte, NC (county pop. 750,000) which has one BMW dealer. I dropped in several days ago (no appointment) to have a tail light replaced. The car was in and out before I could finish ogling the 911's and Boxters next door. It is necessary to make an appointment if you want a loaner for routine maintenance/service, but that's hardly a problem. Usually, it's quicker to wait on the car than to make an extra round-trip in the loaner to retrieve it.
  • bondguy1bondguy1 Member Posts: 231
    My A6 just broke 3200 miles...Leased it mid May...and am averaging 24.50 MPG so far...Pretty soon, when gas gets to $3 (which I understand it is in many places in California right now), maybe a lot of the comparisons will switch to MPG as a category. Thanks President Bush for screwing up our country and giving us higher gas prices!!!
    BTW, I heard the gas mileage on the Lexus hybrid RX400h isn't that great...I think its only like 8-10 MPG more than the regular gas version. Which may be good for an SUV but not worth the premium you're paying. I think the Toyota Prius is a cool car (with real high mileage...especially in the city).
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