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Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I saw a lot more Alfas than Fiats or Lancias, but the Germans grossly outnumbered even Alfa. I can see why Fiat AG is in such big trouble. I only came across a single Quattroporte, and no Maser coupes or convertibles at all.

    Security was the worst at Newark, they made me take off my shoes, pull out my laptop so it could be scanned, etc, etc. Compared to that, security into London and then Nice was a breeze (I drove from Nice to San Remo in a new A4 2.0T TDI rental). In all cases though you're going to want to arrive at the airport at least 2hrs before your flight, and try to be at the gate at least 45 minutes before. If security isnt a headache, customs will be.

    Now that I think of it, I saw at least a few JGCs as well, not really sure why they would possibly want them. Not too many A2s, but plenty of A3s, the BMW 318i hatch, and gobs of M-B A-class. A large % were diesel in San Remo as well, which definitely makes sense. It was about 100 Euros ($130) to completely fill the A4, so I was happy for every extra mpg I could get over a gasoline 2.0T. My Audi was a tiptronic, with shift paddles on the steering wheel. Not much of a point with the diesel, since you're into the red at 4500rpm, shifting for yourself isnt much fun.
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Member Posts: 541
    ... the wood trim is REAL rosewood. That is very expensive and hard to get wood. Not contact paper, not cheap, lacquered over fibreboard, but real rosewood.

    If you had said you prefer the shiny look, fine. If you had said you just don't like wood trim, fine. ...


    Ditto; I agree!! Looks are subjective - likes and dislikes are subjective - period. Wood quality is objective - period. I haven't even chosen a car yet (narrowed it down to two - RL or M35) but I am tired of what's mostly RL owners bashing the M35 interior's QUALITY. I have asked for objective testable examples where the RL has a higher quality interior and no one has yet to provide a single objective example :blush:

    I have test driven the RL and the M35 extensively and find reasons to be imnpressed by both - including the looks of both! However in my opinion the heavily laquered wood in the RL looks amazingly like the plood in my MDX :confuse: Of course I like my MDX so thats OK. But the wood in M35 looks better in my opnion.

    Perhaps Consumer Reports should have tested the finish on the wood samples :shades:
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    In my opinion, the GS300 drives much better than the GS430, which has the HAL 9000 on your back. You think, hey I'd like to take this turn really hard, lift the throttle and bring the tail around a bit. "Sorry Dave, I'm afraid I cant let you do that".

    If your looking for a comfortable, quiet ride, a stellar NAV system, and flat cornering and ripping acceleration arent of critical importance, the GS300 could be a very good choice. The M is a polar opposite of the GS. It has SPORT branded on to its face, so that everyone can see. The GS has a little sport tatoo on the shoulder, so that it cannot be seen under a work shirt.

    The wood in the M is a matte finish, no gloss. If you're the type that thinks gloss = class, then yes, the M's wood will probably look cheap. I think both finishes are fine. I prefer the wood with light leather, and the aluminum with dark leather. I do wish though that Infiniti would offer the third black laquer trim that is available in Japan, that is my favorite of the three.

    I didnt have any problems with a jumpy throttle in the M. I thought both the V6 and V8 were great, but the M45 Sport is definitely the star of the show. If you're going to go that way, you have to go all out. Now all they need to do is offer a Nismo M45 Sport with a supercharger and 450hp+.
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    "The fundamental difference between the two is that the Infiniti has built-in sporty goodness, while the Lexus takes a fairly good substructure and tries hard to make it great through electronics."

    Pretty much the same stuff as eveyone else on these two, but very well written. Lexus has got to look forward to end of comparo season, meanwhile the merciless spanking continues!

    http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=102927
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    With all do respect MSU we welcome you to the RL forum and hope you continue to have a good experience with your buying decision. It would also be good to hear from you about what you do like about the car. Edmunds subjectivity? Probably no more questionable than CR's.
  • hihomikehihomike Member Posts: 111
    I would think that there IS an attempt by Consumer Reports, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Edmunds, etc., to be as objective as possible when rating and comparing new vehicles. As for which is better than the other, I cannot say, nor can most - one would have to objectively look at their test perameters, editors, evaluators, etc. If they all used the same criteria model for their tests, I would think the results would be more similar.

    What I do is look at ALL evaluations and then extract from each what is important to me rather than aver that Consumer Reports is more objective than the other evaluations, or that Motor Trend or Car and Driver is better. Each source contributes information aimed at better informing the buying/driving public.

    So, as to which is the better evaluative process is not as critical as the fact that each comparison done provides "food for thought" or information that assists one in selecting the car that best fits his/her needs.

    That's what I did when I got my 06 530i. It didn't receive all the rave reviews the M35/45 or Acura or Audi received, but it helped me test drive those vehicles that were tested. I agreed in some cases, with the evaluations, and disagreed in others. Remember, people buying cars have different needs, and many of them are subjective, i.e., style, comfort, room, power, handling, etc.

    If an individual buying a new car was completely objective in his/her motives/needs, then we would be buying cars based upon mags. In my case, I bought my car based upon information reported, and then made my decision after driving them.
  • docnukemdocnukem Member Posts: 485
    I agree. I don't think you could go wrong with any of these cars. While I am happy to see the M do so well in various comparos, my biggest concern was rear seat room (three kids and all). Although the numbers suggest it is somewhat larger than the GS and RL, sitting in it at the NAIAS told me that the numbers don't tell the whole story. It feels much larger and more comfortable (from a size point-of-view, at least). If the RL won all the comparos, I still would have got the M. Now, if I had four kids, I would have ended up with a 6 spd MT G35 coupe and left the hauling solely to the SUV.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Don't you think most people coming into this forum have brought forward with them an opinion that probably won't be changed very easily. I have been a long tome Honda/Acura owner and ultimately wanted to own the flagship. Now that that decision was made, like most owners I am a bit protective of that decision as most of us are. However, I've been reading these forums for some time now and it's been an education. I am no longer so resolute. Any one of these cars in this forum would be a pleasure to own and I like reading about them. It's enlightening to read from some of the real knowlegable car guy's postings and we know who they are. I also enjoy a sense of humor and that gets demonstrated often enough. This is an exceptional forum right here and I'll just hang around it for a while. It's fun! :)
  • docnukemdocnukem Member Posts: 485
    Question for you, since you are a long-time Acura owner. Do you see Acura moving in a different direction than when they were first launched? The reason I ask is I always liked the look of the original Legend. I thought it was launched as a premium luxo sedan (not sport). Now with the RL, it seems like they are moving towards the sport side of things (where the old Integra and Vigor used to lie--dating myself a bit here). Do you see this as well, and do you see it as a good thing or otherwise?

    By the way, I test drove a Vigor a long time ago. I don't see why it didn't sell better.
  • hihomikehihomike Member Posts: 111
    I guess what you are saying is the bottom line is that these LPS's have been tested, retested, evaluated, compared, etc., to such an extent that if an individual purchased any of them in the top 5, they would be very happy, indeed. I don't know if I could completely agree with you.

    I would not be happy with a front-wheel drive vehicle or an AWD vehicle. This eliminates several from the group. Next, the M seats for the driver were just too harsh for me as I have a bad back. The GS300 was cramped for my left foot - almost didn't know where to put it as it was so uncomfortable. Thus, I was left with limited choices.

    Yes, all the LPS's are great vehicles, but not great for everyone. That's why there are several out there and thank goodness for that.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    I loved the Vigor. Owned a '93. When I see them on the road I still check them out and look at the overall condition. As I headed toward retirement I Thought the 2000 TL was Acura's best car at the time, drove it for 4 years and in 2004 when the newly designed TL was first introduced, I had my money ready but backed away from it because I thought Acura was taking it in a direction that was too sporty for us. Knew Acura was designing a new RL for 2005. I always liked the Legend but felt the RL became a little stodgy but knew that they were designing something special for 2005. It arrived and I loved it from the first look. I feel that Acura is moving in the right direction with this new design, AWD, and sport package. It is a supurb automoble and the electronics are a fringe benefit. (Meanwhile when I go in for service they give us new TL's to drive and that car has grown on us) Maybe the wife will some day replace her Civic with a TL. Meanwhile our son drives over in his BMW M3 and says Dad ....buy it from me for mom when I get the new one. Yeah son sure!!!!! ;)
  • warthogwarthog Member Posts: 216
    I'm confused. The 2004 TL was "too sporty," although you now want the wife to have one; the previous RL "too stodgy;" but the new RL w/ sport package is just right?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    "I always liked the Legend but felt the RL became a little stodgy".

    Agree completely. The original Legend was a great car, and for its day, was quite sporty. MUCH more so than the '96-'04 RL. I think in '96 Acura tried to position the RL as a bargain LS400. Infiniti tried the same thing with the '97 Q"45". Neither of them had particularly good results, as Lexus makes their own bargain LS400, called the ES.

    I think those original Acura's had some spunk, and that the company lost their way a bit in the mid '90s. I also didnt like how cheap Acura interiors became. I think the '99 TL is their low point, it was barely any better than the Accord, and the black wood in the Type S TL and CL was horrible. With the Type S cars and now the A-specs, I think Acura is getting back to where they should be, though I still think Acura should offer the hottest JDM Honda models, such as the Integra Type R, instead of the diluted RSX Type S. Honda has this strange aversion to bringing any Type Rs to the US. Do they really believe TSX owners wouldnt want more horsepower (Accord Euro R)? In any case, what Acura has now is way better than the bland-mobiles they had 10 years ago. After 10 years, the RL is finally a truly competitive car, which unfortunately still cant be said of the Q45.

    The new found strength of all three Japanese luxury marquees will really put pressure on the entrenched players, and pressure is always good for the industry as a whole.
  • gohorns1gohorns1 Member Posts: 53
    "where the old Integra and Vigor used to lie--dating myself a bit here.."

    I suspect most everyone on this forum recalls the Vigor- in fact it is an accomplishment that we have not forgotten it!

    For those of us not in a huge hurry to but a new car, has anyone heard if Infiniti is planning significant changes for the M for 2007 (ie the passenger seat)?
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Yes, the 2004 TL was a serious change from the 2000-2003 model and I thought they took the car in the wrong direction at the time and backed away from it. Acura in my opinion at that time was going after a new demographic and I personally did not like the new design. Today I feel differently about the TL because we have driven it a number of times and it has grown on us. It ultimately would be her decision but yes, I could see my wife in that car. Yes I thought the previous RL was too stodgy and the design of the 2005 attracted me immediately. Performance was not my highest priority, 6.7 seconds in the 0-60 is not exactly lightning and I look at the SH AWD as more of a safety control factor. I really like the interior design and the comfort level of the seat with electric lumbar support feels perfect. My only concern ...the car is very quick between 50 and 80 and is quiet so I have to watch it.
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Member Posts: 541
    With all do respect MSU we welcome you to the RL forum ...

    Dude I've been a member here since January '01 and I do not appreciate your sarcasm :confuse: You hate CR and that is fine.
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Member Posts: 541
    So, as to which is the better evaluative process is not as critical as the fact that each comparison done provides "food for thought" or information that assists one in selecting the car that best fits his/her needs.

    I agree with you. As I stated in my orignal post the vehement dislike of CR and the false accusations of their lack of a quality test facility and trained engineers at least got me to thinking. I am officially on record that ALL magazine comparos (including CR) are useful and provide credible information (as well as subjective opinions). But the CR bashers got me to questioning just how credible the others are :confuse: I know for a fact that CR has a modern test facility and highly trained engineers (despite the false claims to the contrary). But do the others have quality facilites as well? I did a quick search with no results.

    My original question is still unanswered. Does anyone have a link that describes Car & Drivers test facility? Or Road & Track? Or Automobile? Or Edmunds? I had always assumed that these dedicated automobile mags had state of the art facilites. Or do they? Thanks to the CR haters for opening my mind some :shades:

    Since others have brought up the issue of credibilty of the comparos we all love to analyze and discuss, I thought it might be interesting to at least look at credibility. It is not my intention to offend anyone, although some folks do seem to dispise some of the magazines.
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Member Posts: 541
    I found some info about Automobile Magazine's Testing Proceedures and Philosophy. :shades:

    http://automobilemag.com/test_data/index3.html

    Still nothing on Car & Driver, Road & Track, or Motor Trend :confuse:
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Have you found Edmunds.com Editor in Chief Karl Brauer's Karl's Daily Log Book discussion? There has been a lot of conversation there about reviews lately; you ought to check it out. Karl is away for a week or so, but you can catch up with the conversation and then ask him about the test facilities when he returns.

    We really need to get back to the cars themselves in this discussion, though.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    This is a good discussion! I've often wondered about the quality and credibility of the various magazine tests. Especially after I've quoted CR, and was immediatly jumped on by what seem to be a large number of CR bashers who seem to think the car mags are the end-all for credibility. The only basis they have for this conclusion seems to be that they are car mags, and therefore car enthusiasts, while CR tests everything, and therefore they must test cars like they test appliances or cereal. I've also read that CR has excellent test facilities and highly qualified drivers and engineers, so I think a lot of the bashing is not deserved. I tend to think that the CR results are less biased and less prone to outside influences than many of the "enthusiasts magazines". I'm not sure about Edmunds. ;)
  • cstilescstiles Member Posts: 465
    Enough of the over-analyzing of CR and other "experts." Let's face it, ALL of these reviews contain a lot of opinion. Sure, there exists basic testing methodology and statistics, but at the end of the day, each of these reviews are skewed in their own ways because they represent OPINIONS.

    The car mags are FOR PROFIT ventures that strive to appeal to their readership. They get their revenues through subscriptions and advertisement (predominantly from the car manufacturers). Their articles will indeed be biased in the sense they are trying to appeal to the demographics and interests of their readers, and their advertisers.

    Consumers Union is a NON-PROFIT organization that generates revenues through subscriptions and donations. They must appeal to their readership like the for-profit car rags, and their articles will also be skewed by OPINIONS. However, CR also receives significant donations from trial lawyers, safety advocates, and certain constituents like medical professionals. Their focus will naturally be tilted toward consumer protectionism and safety. Although they accept no advertising per se, they still directly and indirectly appeal to their greatest donors. And these happen to be trial lawyers and safety advocates.

    Okay, let's move on to other topics.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    CR results are less biased and less prone to outside influences than many of the "enthusiasts magazines"

    Definitely, since they don't accept advertising.

    Still, there's no way of really proving whether the non-quantitative portions of their reviews are any more or less reliable than anyone else's.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Let's get back to the cars, okay? Some of you might want to resume this discussion in the discussion I linked earlier - Karl's Daily Log Book - msu79gt82 has made some very good posts on the subject of revies there.

    There may be a more appropriate discussion in News & Views about CR and other review mags - there used to be, but it might be archived. If so, you can ask pf_flyer to reopen it, or start a new one, if you want.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    The final test, and the one that is most meaningful for you is your own test drive. The magazines are helpful, but you have to make the final decision based on your own needs. My post about CR was a response to all the bashing I received every time I would refer to CR, and I thought that bashing was not justified.

    I've made my choice, I can say after research and spending a lot of time in all of the cars in this forum, the Infiniti M35 is my choice, so coincidentally, I agree with CR.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Here is where to pursue this line of conversation: Consumer Reports - Testing & Review Methods.

    Have fun!
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I've provided a link where the conversation about CR may continue. It is off-topic here.
  • rrobrrob Member Posts: 51
    Opinion vary on this, like everything, but . . .

    I like the wood on the M and it was one of the factors in my purchase. I have never been fond of the very shiny wood finishes on most LPS. That said, the wood trim on my M was very dull until I polished it with a good quality wood polish - this gave it a much richer look,still not shiny. I've gotten a lot of comments on the interior, most, but not all positive. One Bimmer driver did have an "is this real?" comment.

    As to the overall feel of the interior, I think cars in this category should make a statement and thus fit different drivers tastes. I expect cars in the 20-30k range have more generic interiors. In this group vive la differance!
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Yeah I dont have a problem with the matte finish, but its definitely not for everybody. It would be nice if Infinifi offered gloss as an option, like MB does in the CLS.
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    I know, at one point in the past, Jaguars had a silky finished wood as a go between, between the gloss and the matte and it looked so much more better... but they discontinued it too.

    never seen anybody else have that. i find high gloss extremely plasticky in looks
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    It depends on the color and grain of the wood, some look fine with super gloss, some look terrible. The ES330 for example has lots of gloss, but it looks great. In cars out at the moment, I think the Audi A8 has the best looking wood trim.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "The ES330 for example has lots of gloss, but it looks great."

    Not really. Those glossy wood interiors are not to my liking. But to each their own.
  • ckelly14ckelly14 Member Posts: 105
    I was considering the M35 sport as it has the two-toned interior that I want: grey leather with black floors. My current Audi has beige leather seats and door inserts with black carpet and dash. I love the look! I'm not a fan of the aluminum, so I was considering an aftermarket trim addition. The dealer has a guy they recommend that can put in ANY color or finish of wood in place of the aluminum. I'm thinking of a glossy finished walnut trim. It runs about $600.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Just make sure its not one of the horrific "wood dash cheap!" kits that look like contact paper.
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    if you watch "this old house" you'll notice, that show has enough shop tools around to fashion real wood of any type for any car in any shape with any finish ;)

    ksso
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Yes but be careful not to select birds eye maple as it may create a maze on your dash and mice mistake it for a cheese cutting board! sorry KSSO...you started it.
  • bondguy1bondguy1 Member Posts: 231
    A lot of people don't like shiny wood trim because of the cheap aftermarket kits that are available. Especially the lighter tones that look yellow. If, however, you get a Mercedes Benz or Audi or BMW or another high end car, you basically know it's real wood...except maybe on a 3 series or A4 ( I don't know if those are real wood).
    If you look at cars like the new Toyota Avalon, it's obviously plastic made to look like wood.
    I like non shiny wood too...but if you look close at the M35's wood, if I can call it that, it looks like plastic...I'd rather have plastic that looked a lot like wood than wood that looked like cheap plastic. But, it's not just the wood that cheapens the M35 for me. How come they have the cheap looking straight handles that are leather covered to close doors from inside. You know what those will look like in a year...espcially in the light color...same for the shifter knob. It's not just the wood that makes the Audi's interior on the A6 or A8 look great...it's the combination of wood, aluminum and leather inserts that complete the beauty of what is the interior of an Audi. Door handles are aluminum or at least they look that way. I think the interior of the M35 is great looking in the aluminum interior dash you get with the Sport package...they should offer it as an option on all cars...not just sport.
  • bfeng7bfeng7 Member Posts: 47
    Mark,

    Full disclosure first: I work for Bose ... in the division responsible for Audi and Infinity (the car brand) audio systema. Previously, I worked for one of the most well respected audio consultancies in the worlds (concert hall design, noise control, sound quality, etc.). Maybe I know something about sound. One of my 3 home systems is built up around Aerial Acoustics speakers, which I don't think sound too shabby.

    I have a suggestion.
    Go price out a midrange driver for a B&W 802, or a Revel F32, or a (pick your brand of high-end speaker). Now consider that the price of that one midrange could be not so different from what the automaker spent on all the speakers in the whole car. Then add 1 woofer, and consider that just maybe the price of your two drivers is more than all the car's speakers plus the amplifier, plus the DSP processor, plus wiring harness, etc.. Consider that a telephone from B&O (which has a LONG history of producing truely high end audio ) might possibly cost more than an automaker pays for their entire premium audio system.

    Try it another way. If an automaker decided use 4xtweeter, 4xmidranges, 3xmid/tweeters, and 2xwoofers of the same quality used in a high end speaker, and then they added an 8 channel amplier of mid/high end quality, what do you think you'd have to pay for that premium sound option? Now add some DSP horsepower that compares to something like a Meridian DSP 5500 speaker system. That set of parts, would cost you something like $10,000. Are you prepared to pay that for premium sound in your next car?

    Try it from the other angle. Let's say car maker "X" charges $1000 for their premium sound option. What do you think their markup is? If it is anything like home audio ... maybe their cost was $400 for that system. What can you buy for $400 these days? Can that gear survive 85 degrees C summer days, freezing, humidity, shock and vibration, dust, water, etc. and still work after 3 years?

    So, it's not a stretch to see that automakers can't spend much money on premium audio, relative to what you'd have to spend to get a decent 5.1 system at home. Judged in that light, I think Bose and it's worthy competitors are doing pretty darn well.

    Cheers,
    B.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    "I think the interior of the M35 is great looking in the aluminum interior dash you get with the Sport package...they should offer it as an option on all cars...not just sport. "

    Even if the aluminum is fake? What's the difference, fake hot stamped aluminum or fake plastic wood? I think if it looks convincing, and it looks tasteful, it will fool even the most discriminating among us. Plastic wood is used on some very high end furniture, and very few customers know it.
  • quasiactuaryquasiactuary Member Posts: 50
    I stand corrected. I knew that in the past it was a deduction not a credit, didn't realize that changed on 1/1/2006. Your link estimates the credit on the RX400h to be $1,300 though so it isn't that far from my estimate of $1,000 anyway.
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    Damn, I couldn't agree more. I have had a 7.1 system since late 1999 and I cannot believe I spend just 3K on wiring and cables... but then again, I was under 30 back then so we'll write it off to careless monetary abandon and immaturity.

    Getting back to cars, I think for the few hundred or at most 1000 bux that you pay for a premium sound system are entirely worth it. The only exclusion will be the harmon kardon tin-pots that crackle in my wife's bmw.... it is the boomiest, ugliest sounding premium system i've every paid for... overall if you see, the mark levinson's in lexus or even the bose or non-bose systems is acura are absolutely UP there...

    i personally think the german car's are a little behind on this front.

    my person 2 cents.
    ksso
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    funny i was reading about the new law yesterday and it dawned that it has flipped from being a deduction to a credit... don't we love tax credits instead of deductions... but sadly toyota buyers will be losing their credit rather rapidly.

    from what i read, anytime a manufacturer hits 60K sales of hybrid, their customers credit will start sliding down a curve along a formula. so i guess honda and ford have some more time to entice customers into their shop for hybrids, but toyota will be losing the tax credit luster too. did anyone read the law in detail and get the same impression on the hybrid tax credit? Basically the way I read it, this credit was an incentive to the "other" manufacturers who are sitting on the sidelines without any real hybrids on the market. to me that is a smart move to get more manufacturers to commit to hybrids and really "broaden" the hybrid movement rather than just rewarding the few smart ones who anyway did it on their own.

    this reminds me of the faux-pas in Arizona some years ago. I wish i was smart enough back then to drop money on a 5K electric golf cart and get a 5K tax credit instead of spending zillions on the 7.1 surround system. It took an entire year for AZ to roll back the mistake they made but i'd scores of neighbors who bought golf carts and took entire 5K credits on taxes (not deductions)... bless scottsdale... i miss it.

    ksso
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    "Speaking of BP, starting I believe next year, all Ford branded vehicles will have the BP logo on the gas cap!! "

    Interstingly my wife's bmw's engine oil cap has been saying "castrol" to me since we bought it in the summer of 2003.

    seems like ford got a lot of flap for their announcement on co-branding with BP, but others have been quietly doing it for a while now.

    Depending on what part of the country I am in, I tend to develop an almost superstitious belief that certain gas stations/companies give me better HP or mileage. Do any of you get religious like that? (and i'm an aethist)....

    When I lived down in scottsdale AZ, i was a fan of cheveron and tried to get gas at a certain station on scottsdale road up north of 101.

    in my distant life in NJ, i remember i used to get my gas at a mobil station on route 10 just off 287 in parsipanny.

    lately, i try to get my gas at a BP station and interestingly, I find they are cheapest compared to the surrounding shell's, mobils, exxons and GETTY too???? I find it unusual because I've seen BP's in most other places at price par with the mobil's and exxons.

    i wonder if my cars care more or less what they are fed...

    ksso
  • hihomikehihomike Member Posts: 111
    You seem to be "up" on audio systems, to be sure. I just got a 530i with Premium Surround Sound with Logic 7. The MSRP on that system was $1800 and dealer cost was about $1650.00. I've listened to some outstanding audio systems, and I consider this one, from my standpoint, extremely well balanced and accoustically refreshing.

    What's your assessment of this sytem, the price paid for it, etc? I'd be very interested in your opinion.

    MLS
  • cmybimmergocmybimmergo Member Posts: 265
    i wonder if my cars care more or less what they are fed...

    Didja take a look at this website (in the post immediately preceeding the one you answered): http://toptiergas.com/

    It says cars do in fact care. The following are recommended companies:

    QuikTrip
    Chevron
    Conoco
    Phillips
    76
    Shell
    Entec Stations
    MFA Oil Company

    I haven't compared mileage/performance as it relates to brand of gas (I pretty much stick with Shell), but I derfinitely have found that my bimmer really, really likes to go fast. If I do too much local stop-and-go driving, it gets sluggish and starts hesitating more on acceleration (and of course the mileage plummets). The best remedy is to get on the highway and open it up.
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Member Posts: 541
    A lot of people don't like shiny wood trim because of the cheap aftermarket kits that are available. ... If, however, you get a Mercedes Benz or Audi or BMW or another high end car, you basically know it's real wood... I like non shiny wood too...but if you look close at the M35's wood, if I can call it that, it looks like plastic...I'd rather have plastic that looked a lot like wood than wood that looked like cheap plastic.

    Subjectivism run rampant :blush: If you can call it that? :confuse: Come on, you don't have to like it but it is OBVIOUSLY real wood and not plood :sick: To me (I admit subjective here) the "real" wood in the BMW 5-series looks just like the "real" wood in the Acura RL which looks just like the plood in my MDX. So how am I to basically know that the BMW uses real wood since it looks like plood? Just because its a BMW I guess :confuse:

    Thats the problem with subjectivism - its subjective (atta boy yogi). You don't like the matte finish in the M35 and thats OK for YOU, but you will never convine ME that it looks fake, because it does not :shades:
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Member Posts: 541
    Virtually ALL gasolines are refined from the same basic stock on a regional basis. Note that I did not say that all gasolines are the same at the pump, but they are all derived from the same basic gas stock.

    What makes Shell different from Chevron different from Exxon different from etc etc are the additives. Proprietary additives are blended into the basic stock (the primary, but not only, additives are octane boosters, oxygenators, and detergents). In my opinion the most important additive is the detergents. For example other than higher octane the biggest difference between Shell Regular (87) and Shell V-Power (91+) are the detergents to keep you engine "cleaner" Or at least thats what Shell claims. From a legal marketing perspective I have no doubt that Shell V-Power is different than Shell Regular, but I am not sure V-Power will keep my engine significantly cleaner that Regular.

    Top Tier gasolines have proven engine detergents in them and can be trusted (and recommended by auto makers), that is not to say that other gasolines will not keep your engine clean either.
  • docnukemdocnukem Member Posts: 485
    Matte finish is clearly not for everyone. Most people like the wood in the M; obviously some people don't. The only problem with glossy wood is that it is hard to judge if it is real wood under all the acrylic ( which is plastic, by the way). Matte finish in a car is foreign to most people, so it may seem odd to those people who have preconceived notions about what wood is supposed to look like.

    As to the leather door handles and shift knob, I guess I don't understand the problem. Leather is far more warm and comfortable than plastic or wood for these gripped surfaces. Just as a leather-wrapped steering wheel is favored over plastic or wood wheels, it seems natural to put leather where you are going to be gripping surfaces.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Amazing how folks see things differently.
    The wood in my BMW 545i looks like real wood to me.
    The wood in the M35/45 looked like cardboard to me.
    Different strokes for different folks.
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Member Posts: 541
    Amazing how folks see things differently.

    That was my point exactly :shades:
    By the way the same goes for hearing too, thats why there is so much disagreement regarding sound systems. There is no accounting for personal taste - literally, we all have different tastes in foods.

    Thats the problem with subjectivism - its subjective ;)
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    since i detail my own cars, i guess i dont particuarly like shiny parts as yet another thing to polish every second or third week ;)

    plus specially in the wife's bmw, i think the glossy wood gets smudged so quickly, i hate to see that.... it's like kids, do you have any value of your dad's time spent in making sure there was a sparkle and shine?

    hehe

    ksso
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