Luxury Performance Sedans

dan339g · August 2005

Im in the process of evaluating replacements for my beloved 01 BMW 530i. It is a wonderful car, but I would like something with more passenger and trunk space, as well as all wheel drive to help better cope with New England winters. Ive test driven the usual suspects, including Mercedes E350 & E500 4matic, Lexus GS300x, Infiniti M35x, and the Audi A6 3.2 Quattro.

The MB E-Class pushes all the right buttons in regard to size, styling, performance, features and comfort and I would be in one right now if it werent for the well documented reliability issues, and the horror stories from owners in the MB forum regarding this model. Damn shame.

The Lexus is very refined with a smooth ride and attractive styling, but is somewhat underpowered and the cabin/trunk space feels quite cramped.

The Infiniti has some impressive technology and is probably the closest to my BMW in terms of driving experience but I cant get past the styling, (as I cant with the new BMW 5 series.)

This leaves Audi, which was an impressive test drive indeed. The size felt just right in terms of overall dimensions and cabin/trunk space. The styling is distinctive, yet still reflects an elegant simplicity. The interior fit and finish seem first class, and the features are equal or superior to other models in this segment. I found the performance to be more on the sport side of the sport/luxury equation, which is still appealing even in my old age. My one concern is the ride seemed exceedingly harsh. I drove a 3.2 model with the standard suspension and 17 wheels, and I felt every crack and ripple in the road. It makes my BMW feel like a Town Car (relatively speaking), and I fear this stiffness will be a significant issue over winter ravaged Northeast roads.

Now to my questionhas anyone driven one with the optional adaptive suspension? The salesman mentioned in passing it is a special order option, and is most frequently found on the wagons to increase the ground clearance, but he also mentioned there is a softer setting. Im wondering if this would help with the ride issue in the sedans? I'm really strongly favoring the Audi and would be willing to spend the extra $ if this proved to make a significant difference.

Also, are there any other models in the sports sedan segment worth looking at that I'm over looking?

Thanks,
-Dan

markcincinnati · August 2005

Although I generally think I am aware of "many" things Audi, I will confess up-front to some ignorance about the new A6 "adaptive" suspension.

My understanding and belief about the A6's (and even the A8's and Phaeton's) "adaptive" suspension is that it technically does NOT adapt without some input from the driver.

In the case of my most recent, former Audi, a 2003 allroad, it came with what I assume is the father (or mother) or grand parent of the newest A6 system.

This worked in the following manner: four ride heights were offered via a switch on the dashboard. The car could be sitting or moving and the suspension would adjust (adjust, not adapt). If the settings (from low to high 1,2,3,4) were on setting two, three or four, the suspension would lower itself at certain speeds. Further the suspension would raise back to level two or three when certain (speed related) events happened.

An example: level three provided fairly high ground clearance and a "soft-ER" ride than levels one and two (level four was only good for speeds up to 20kph, then it automatically went to level three -- NOTE: I suspect that the A6 on level four has a maximum speed before auto-downing higher than 20kph since the allroad's primary objective in level four was to more or less imitate the ride height of a Jeep Grand and the allroad was a "cross-over" car.)

At 50MPH, the suspension would begin to drop to level two and there it would remain until your next "stop or near stop" speed was attained. Next, as I recall, the suspension would drop to level one at a threshold speed of 93MPH, returning all the way back to level three under "stopping" circumstances.

If the setting had been to start from level one, no "auto-up" would happen regardless -- until the driver pushed the "up arrow" button.

None of this behavior strikes me as being particularly adaptive since everything happens "gradually" nothing even approaches real-time adaptation.

If you were driving the new A6 and its air-adaptive suspension functions mostly as I just described the allroad's, I would expect that if you were driving along on a wide-open smooth road ("the American Autobahn," i.e.) you would WANT to be at level one or level two. You would want to be at level two if the road was straight as can be with gradual sweeping curves. You might want to be at level one if the road was curvy and at the worst, "fairly smooth," since level one does improve the handling of the car (at the risk of some ride quality sacrifice.)

For the sake of example, assume level four increases the ground clearance to 8" and that at level three, ground clearance falls to 6.75", and then, at level two, falls to 5.75" and at level one falls to 5.0" (or slightly less) and feels very stiff indeed (but the handling improves as the springs are more compressed and the ride height is 3.0" lower than the high position.)

Because of the "worsening" of handling characteristics offered at level four, you may not "typically" feel this setting has much use except on washboard roads or in a pot-hole plagued urban setting. But at YOUR COMMAND, you will be able to, as young Frankenstein says, "elevate" yourself (". . .elevate me," says Gene Wilder in the film, as I recall.)

You may find, as did I that most of the time I kept the thing set at level two and when I was alone on some twisty secondary roads I would lower all the way to setting one. From time to time, perhaps if I had "guests in the car," I would raise the initial setting to level three because it gave somewhat of a controlled AND soft ride at the same time. But, at 50MPH the thing was always powering itself down to level two -- and you'd be amazed how easily it is to hit 50mph (80kph) and have the suspension remain in level two until you exit the freeway or come to a full or nearly full stop.

The air suspension is useful but it is, IMHO, NOT adaptive but you, when you are behind the wheel, can "adapt" the suspension to one of four fixed positions (with the limitations or "rules" I have above outlined.)

What I, personally, would like -- based on my reading of the reviews -- is a reasonably compliant suspension, "sticky" tires, plus sized wheels (18") and tires and the dual diagonal active/but un-powered suspension from the last Audi RS 6.

Would I take the A6 with the "adaptive" but not "active" suspension as I have described my experiences with the allroad -- sure. It is more than a gimmick. Frankly, I would only pay about $1250 for the pleasure though (I picked that number since it is the exact same cost as the Sport Suspension option from the 2005 A6.)

Assuming I am right, and you understand it is NOT a real-time active system, you may love the "adaptive" system just fine.

:shades:

lexusguy · August 2005

MBL Akustikgerte GmbH makes electronics and speakers, and it's all world class, but the Radialstrahlers are just on another planet entirely. Unfortunately like most omni-radiators they need several feet of open space on all sides, so shoving one into a door panel or on top of a dash board seems unlikely. Any kind of grill also ruins the sound, so unless your willing to put up with a giant vibrating orb instead of a passenger seat...

lexusguy · August 2005

Have you considered the Acura RL? Even with the optional "tech package" now available for '06 cars, you can probably still get one for under $50K.

drive4fun · August 2005

According to Audi's sales materials, the A6/A8 adaptive air suspensions are supposed to automatically adjust to road conditions and driver style. Perhaps this adjustment is subtle, given your comments on the allroad. Also, the A6 adaptive suspension does comes with the ticker anti-sway bars from the sport suspension but offers a more compliant ride, creating a seemingly best of both worlds balance. I'm not sure what the air suspension does to weight, but it did shave some pounds off the A8 by eliminating strings and other components traditionally still make out of steel.

drive4fun · August 2005

I must be tired after a recent stretch of working 70+ hour weeks. I meant "thicker" anti-sway bars not "ticker" and "springs" not "strings" and "made" instead of "make".

senneca01 · August 2005

Yup, exactly right. Most woods in newer BMW's with glossy finish look fake. This excludes the 7-Series with matte finish. I don't know why BMW would use cheaper interior materials on the E60 then they did on the previous E39. Maybe to cut costs?

hpowders · August 2005

Yeah. Right.

ksoman · August 2005

maybe.. the euro is killing bmw despite moving production to south africa and such.... the latest i heard is cars produced in china, next to the local walmart factory...

ksoman · August 2005

the new SAE compliant rating is 290 something... does that reduce the charm of the RL??? I am planning to test drive a 06 RL just for the heck of it... I do test drive tons of cars every month, just for the heck of it.... anyway, I want to try and subjectively figure out if the new knowledge that the RL has a lower "printed" horsepower has any psychological impact on me when I drive the car or it still feels the same pretty much...

i saw one of the V8 nrothstars from GM just got bumped from 340 to 369 horses based on the new SAE calculations... what GM doing to undermarket their ponnies? smoking?

I also read that toyota/lexus has lost a decent chunk of their horsepower ratings too for their various engines. one e.g that pops to mind is the camry was downgraded from 210 to 190 hp on their 3.0 V6. no word yet on how nissan/infinity is affected.

ksso

jrock65 · August 2005

The only vehicle that Nissan/Infiniti changed to conform to the revised SAE is the 2006 FX45. Horsepower went up by 5 to 320 and torque went up by 6 to 335.

markcincinnati · August 2005

Hmmm. . .sounds a little like "Magna Ride" -- that would be a step up from the allroad system.

"Adaptive air suspension is an electronically controlled air suspension system at all four wheels combined with an electronically controlled, adaptive damping system. It unites sporty handling and a high level of ride comfort. In addition, the air suspension allows the speed-dependent lowering of the body, or ride height. This change in ride height lowers the center of gravity and significantly increases directional stability as a result. The vehicle's aerodynamics are improved at the same time (this -- the bold part -- is what the allroad does.)

Data from position sensors are evaluated in the adaptive air suspension's central control unit. This computer controls the adjustment of the individual shock absorbers in milliseconds depending on the driving situation (this sounds similar to GM's Magna Ride.)"

msu79gt82 · August 2005

I also read that toyota/lexus has lost a decent chunk of their horsepower ratings too for their various engines. one e.g that pops to mind is the camry was downgraded from 210 to 190 hp on their 3.0 V6.

Of course actual hp has NOT changed; merely the way it is measured, nevertheless: Check out the article linked below from The Detroit News. The article claims that the new test standard will hurt the Asian makes more than the domestic. In fact some domestic models (e.g. Cadillac STS and XLR) had an increse in horsepower. Should prove to be interesting time on car lots next fall.

What will be the response to customers who ask, "Why did the RL have a drop in hp with the new standard but the STS go up?" Or when a shopper asks, "Why did the MDX lose power in '06 but the XLR gain power?"

Good questions, can't wait to hear the answer offered up by sales reps. Some folks WILL wonder why under the new standard some makes (e.g. Toyota, Honda) consistently went DOWN; while other makes (e.g. Ford, GM) had a tendency to go UP. Human nature dictates that these questions and concerns WILL be raised. One can easily conclude that certain makes appear to have exaggerated hp under the old/previous "standard" and they will have to deal with it.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0508/17/A01-283759.htm

qbrozen · August 2005

meanwhile, acceleration times won't change one bit .... so it ultimately doesn't matter.

lexusguy · August 2005

Exactly as Gbrozen said, "horsepower" is somewhat of an arcane reference in 2005. It was great when people where actually comparing motorized vehicles to horses, but I think that probably stopped by 1910. No matter how many "horses" they have, the domestics arent any faster, and the japanese arent any slower. An Avalon will still mop the floor with a Ford 500 or Buick LaCrosse, regardless.

rich545 · August 2005

The fact is the wood isn't fake in the E60 and it looks exactly the same as the wood did in the 2003 330xi I used to have. You shouldn't just assume the interior materials used in the E60 are cheaper than the E39 simply because you "think" they are or may like the E39 better. I've driven an E39 and ridden in them numerous times and I don't think the interior looks any more "expensive". In fact I think it actually has more hard plastics which to me seem cheaper, but I'd be willing to bet the two interiors are pretty close in terms of cost to produce for BMW. My point is though, you have no proof that the interior materials are in fact cheaper so it is simply an assumption based on perception.

dan339g · August 2005

Thanks Mark, and others for the comments regarding the adaptive suspension relative to the A6. I didn't realize this feature is standard on the A8...I think I will re-visit the dealer and test drive one to get a "feel" for the suspension, and more thorough understanding of the functionality. I understand the A8 will have different driving dynamics, but I really do want to make sure it makes a material difference before investing in a $2.2K option. I also need to get clarity on whether it is available for the A6 3.2 sedan, as it is currently listed as an option only for the Avant on the Audi website. Although, I suspect the site hasn't been updated for the 06 offerings.

chef_jmr · August 2005

You are correct, Audi has not updated their site yet for the '06s. I think Edmund's car "configurator" is up-to-date and includes the Adaptive Suspension. It is available as an option on the A6 3.2 sedan.

It is an option I am considering, too, but want to hear from others (and test drive myself) the difference between the Adaptive and Sport. How sporty is the Adaptive Suspension? I do a lot of City driving (San Francisco has many poorly maintained streets), so the sport might be out, but if the Adaptive can get close to a sport suspension-type-drive when outside the City and give me a smooth drive while inside city limits, I could fork over some more $$$ for it.

dan339g · August 2005

"Perception is reality"

msu79gt82 · August 2005

... "horsepower" is somewhat of an arcane reference in 2005. It was great when people where actually comparing motorized vehicles to horses, but I think that probably stopped by 1910.

You may know that, but it is a fact that hp is a powerful marketing tool. We are not talking reality here. The psychological impact of hp is due to perception and not reality. Although the reality is that Toyota and Honda have been caught overstating their hp relative to domestic makes. This will be an issue for some folks and it will be intersting to see how dealerships deal with it. Acura is already on record as stating the change is [merely] due to the revised SAE standards. Yet Cadillac went UP with the same revised standards that Acura went DOWN with. It does not matter to you, but it will to some folks.

hihomike · August 2005

Perception is reality

I read and studied your post above re: perception and reality for quite some time and at first didn't think it was worth the effort or aggravation to respond to it! But being the "philosopher" and educator that I am, I felt that some input/feedback here was needed.

I believe what you really meant was that "beauty (or the like) is in the eye of the beholder!" If the wood in the M series or BMW 5 series looks like plastic or laminate, it doesn't mean it's plastic or laminate, does it??? If your statement were true, "perception is reality," then if it looks like plastic, it is plastic. Does that make sense to anyone?

What appears to me to be beaufiful wood texture does not necessary mean others perceive this the same way. But...IF IT'S REAL WOOD, THEN IT'S REAL WOOD!

Hopefully, we can all take a respite on this topic, at least for a day or two.

msu79gt82 · August 2005

I believe what you really meant was that "beauty (or the like) is in the eye of the beholder!" If the wood in the M series or BMW 5 series looks like plastic or laminate, it doesn't mean it's plastic or laminate, does it???

Isn't it really like "possession is nine tenths of the law" as in whatever wood came in the car I possess is not only real and beautiful, but also better than the others

Does that also mean the hp in the RL actually went down :surprise:

hihomike · August 2005

Does that mean the hp in the RL actually went down

At this point on this topic, I'm ready to agree to anything!

msu79gt82 · August 2005

See my edited expanded respone above, I was a little slow.

drive4fun · August 2005

FYI, the adaptive air suspension is available for the 3.2 and 4.2 A6 sedans starting with the 2006 model year. I believe the additional cost is $2,300. I'm not sure if dealers have put any actual 2006 sedans on their lots (aside from pre-orders), since Audi may be holding the newer model year in port until most 2005 vehicles are out of dealer inventory. Since the A8 and A6 are different vehicles and you'll have to wait for adaptive anyway, you may as well just wait for the test drive until Sept. That's my 2¢.

dan339g · August 2005

Thanks for the feedback. I just got off the phone with the dealer, and they tell me the adaptive suspension is indeed available for the A6 sedans for 06. However, it is by "special order" only, meaning Audi won't ship any for dealer stock so equipped. I'm guessing odds are very slim they will let me put miles on a special order vehicle already sold to a customer, so I think the test drive in the A8 is my best bet to experience this option. I'm just hoping I won't fall in love the A8, which is out of my budget.

dan339g · August 2005

Actually, what I meant was our own perception is our own reality. If you believe wood is plastic (or vice versa) it has essentially the same value as if it really were plastic. Of course, no one can argue that physically they are the same but it is typical for a person to form a perception by processing an "input" against values and experiences and the result is "reality" to them.

rich545 · August 2005

Just what I was going to say to you. Our perception may form our own personal reality to a degree, but it may or may not coincide with actual reality.

warthog · August 2005

Isn't HP really misleading when we're talking about a high-revving engine like a Honda? Since HP is a function of torque x RPM, Honda's HP is pretty useless when you're cruising at 2500 rpm and punch it to pass. I'm sure someone will correct me if I misapprehend the situation.

lexusguy · August 2005

No I think you have it right. Horsepower measures engine power, but there are a huge amount of variables that have to be factored in when it comes to actual real world performance. Everything from weight and drivetrain loss to tires and wheel size to how hot or cold it is outside, to ultimately the person operating the controls. Engines like the like the 2.2L screaming Honda S2000 engine or the Mazda RX-8 rotary will behave completely different from say, a turbo charged 2.5L Subaru boxer 4, even if the rated horsepower is relatively close.

kdshapiro · August 2005

You are correct. HP is a derived number. It is torque * rpm / 5252.

But to quote:

The Only Thing You Really Need to Know

It is better to make torque at high rpm than at low rpm, because you can take advantage of *gearing*.

djocks · August 2005

I am going to lease a car THIS WEEK!

I am leaning towards the new BMW 3-series with its $600 a month payment and initial down. I am also strongly considering the Acura RL. At this point I would also consider looking at anything. I am not interested in the Infiniti G35 but would consider anything else from their line.

This is the luxury sedan comparo and discussion, so i am pleeding with all of you for anything I might be overlooking????

djocks

kdshapiro · August 2005

Have you test driven these cars? They all inherently have their strengths and weaknesses. CR said the M35 was #1. Pick up the issue and see if you agree with the way they rated the car and why. If you're willing to spend $600/mo + initial down, what cars fits your financial criteria?

I don't think you can go wrong with any of them, but imagine you just picked up your dream model. Envision yourself three years down the road and after the "gadget" effect has worn off. Can you see yourself excited with the car, or would you be wishing you really got the model you first wanted? Or, does that not matter?

Test drive the 540i again and then try to answer the above questions.

Good luck and keep us posted.

callmedrfill · August 2005

But Lexus has dropped the performance ball yet again.

I'd get the 3, if an A4 or G35 is not your bag.

Do you drive stick or no?

DrFill

lexusguy · August 2005

So says Edmunds, on a pre-production model. But what does Edmunds know? They simultaniously rated the Lexus GS both the best and worst LPS out of Japan. I'm not going to just dismiss the IS350 until I drive it for myself.

Otherwise, I'm not too impressed with the current C-class, but I think an S4 could be a great choice, as could an M35.

hihomike · August 2005

For around 600+tax and inceptions out of pocket, you can lease an M35 with journey package (air-conditioned seats, rear back-up camera, bose stereo system, adaptive front xenon headlights, etc.) for 39 months. The 36 month lease is very close to that. This is good only through the end of August. Infiniti Financial Services has the M35 at a 60%+ residual, which is very strong. It leases better than most of the comparable Luxury Performance Sedans.

I would definitely check this car out!!!

larryoflebanon · August 2005

I have been in the market for an LPS for about a month and have driven a lot of different cars. I used to drive a BMW 540i with a sport suspension. In the 4 years I had it I was always grateful for the qulity of the driving experience (Except for during Winter when the car could be almost worthless). Here are my impressions.

The Lexus GS 300AWD is a better car than I ever expected. I drove it before and after a number of other LPS models and was impressed. I am only 5' 10" #165 and didn't feel cramped in the cabin. Lexus claims it is similar to a BMW. It isn't. It drives more like a Mercedes.

I personally like BMWs. I have had two in the last 10 years. They drive better than the other cars I have tried, but are not very good in the snow. If I were to get a 3 or 5 series I would get the AWD. The 3 series AWD won't be out until October. The interior of the new 3 series is close to the interior of my old 5 series.

I drove a bunch of Audis. The S-4 is fun, but a harsh ride. The A-6 is a nice compromise, but for some reason I could not get excited about it. The straight A-4 is comparable to the BMW 3 series in that they have expanded the interior. I liked the A-8 with the sport suspension. The adaptive suspension settings would be good for a road warrior, which I occasionally have to be. The A-8 in sport mode is a little silly considering how big the car is. It is not something that you want to throw around as you would with a BMW. I also don't really want to spend $75 for a car. The Audi V-8 is awesome.

At the moment I have put a hold on my search. I am waiting to see what new diesels come to market next year. I really like the E320CDI, but want AWD. Such a car has been released in Germany, but they most likely won't be sending it to the US until the new diesel fuel regulations go into effect.Hopefully there will be some other options coming to the US next year. I have driven a lot of diesel BMW and Mercedes in Germany while over there on business. It is great to drive fast and get 35 mpg.

If I were to purchase today I would get the RL. It is a great value at about $45-46. My reservation is that you know and feel like you are driving a Honda. The M-35 AWD was a good car, but not my cup of tea.

It has been fun driving all these cars. Good luck with your choice. You really won't go wrong with the cars you are looking at.

lexusguy · August 2005

I drove a 2005 A4 2.0TDI while in Italy over the summer. I was grateful for every extra mpg I could get, considering it was costing me $130 for every tank of gas! The car was great, I was getting over 30mpg while averaging 90-100mph on the Autostrada. The car was a tip-tronic with paddleshifters on the steering wheel. The only problem with a turbo diesel is shifting for yourself is no fun when the car is in the red at 5,000 rpm.

markcincinnati · August 2005

Aren't ALL of the LPS cars, even the ones excluded from this forum, available with REAL WOOD (some, like the M can be had with REAL ALUMINUM, etc.)?

If the Acura or Audi or Infiniti or BMW, etc, has "wood" trim it IS wood, no exceptions, correct?

We may have individual preferences and perceptions "this looks like [fill in the blank]: wood or plastic or contact paper or stone or carbon fiber or whatever."

At the end of the day, apparently, the only way to make "us" all happy is for the manufacturers to offer more choices (completely plausible with "mass customization") -- then I can get matte or gloss wood in walnut or birch or rosewood or whatever my pea pickin' heart (and wallet) desires.

Hey, now there's another LPS differentiation idea: even greater customization through the magic of computerized configurators for the build out of cars. Or, if it is possible, allowing a built and on the lot car to be so tailored prior to delivery with wood options, some electronic options and perhaps tire/wheel combos that can be offered at "point of delivery."

For the record, I don't care for BMW's glossy black wood -- it is depressing, like burnt toast -- but that's just me.

LPS cars, as they get more and more alike in feature and function will need to differentiate themselves even more than they do today -- mass customization, greater and greater choices of "finish" and personal preference options can make this a reality.

BTW, who's with me? If you pay $128,000 for a new Audi, don't you think you have the right to demand a stick shift?

I didn't think so. Hope springs eternal. :shades:

lexusguy · August 2005

I totally agree. One of the things I like about Jaguar is that they offer like 15 different wheel styles for the XKR. There's nothing necessarily wrong with the stockers, but if you dont like them, there's plenty of other wheels to choose from. One of the things I hate most about the SC430 is those horrendous wheels, and Lexus has no other choices. So if you buy an SC, you have to figure in a $2000 check to BBS. These....things.. just cannot be made attractive, no matter how many cheesy covers Lexus comes out with.

msu79gt82 · August 2005

If I were to purchase today I would get the RL. It is a great value at about $45-46. My reservation is that you know and feel like you are driving a Honda.

Actually the RL at $45-46 is a poor deal :confuse: With year end close outs the RL is going for $42-43 in many places. :shades:

andre1 · August 2005

Is this forum only for comparing new LPS vehicles? I wonder why nobody ever factors in used cars in their comparison driving experiences on this forum. For example, I just purchased a low-mileage, excellent condition 2000 BMW M5 with a 4 year warranty for less than $40,000

. Now, all of these cars on this forum are great cars, but none of them compare to one of the greatest sedans ever made, the E39 M5. If looking for newer than a 2000, you can get a used 2002 M5 (with CPO warranty to 2008) for less than any of these over $50K cars. I, for one, always try to use depreciation in my favor by getting a LPS that is 2 or 3 years old with low miles and extended warranty (I get a different car every 2 - 3 years). It does take more research to find a good used car, but when I can get an original $75,000 M5 used for less than the cost of a new minivan, I'd say that's a much better way to go than getting any of these LPS cars new.

jjacura · August 2005

I would agree with you about those wheels...Seems strange for Lexus with all that design talent.

One of the things I don't like about the RL is...everything is basically included...that's it ...here's your fully loaded LPS regardless of the options you don't need. But if MSU79GT82 is correct about buying a new 2005 for $42,000, then hello, bring on all the options, and add in the sport Michelins, wood steering wheel, shift knob, and back-up sensors too!

Also I would enjoy hearing from any real "Car guy", who would come forward and totally bloviate about the RL to the extreme that several BMW owners have in the past about their 545i's!! :P

markcincinnati · August 2005

It seems to me that BMW offers the most choices, currently, of all the LPS cars -- and I am, for obvious reasons HERE, excluding the Jaguar. Of course, every little doo dad on a BMW is optional and that is somewhat annoying.

No way to get a built in garage door opener on my wife's new $47K BMW without popping yet another $425. We just use the tiny transmitter that came with the garage door openers when we built the house -- it needs a new battery about every 2 years, so its no real inconvenience.

msu79gt82 · August 2005

But if MSU79GT82 is correct about buying a new 2005 for $42,000, then hello, bring on all the options, and add in the sport Michelins, wood steering wheel, shift knob, and back-up sensors too!

Well I haven't bought yet, but I was offered mid $43 back in May. Also I belong to another "dedicated" RL Forum that has a sticky regarding prices paid. Its fascinating to go through that multi-page thread that began last October and watch the prices drop :surprise: The most recent reports are in the $42s (with one in the $41s). Of course there are also reports here in Edmunds for prices paid in the $42-43 range.

Early reports are that the '06 will not have any significant changes to the standared car, but there will be a Tech Package option (with run flats, laser cruise, lane departure warning). My guess is no more that $2000 based on what these options cost at Lexus and Infiniti.

lexusguy · August 2005

I agree. Thats why I'm currently on my third lightly used Jaguar convertible. My '00 R would've cost almost $90 grand. I got it for a little more than half that. With Jaguar depreciation, you'd have to basically be an idiot to buy one new. Other cars though, it doesnt quite work that way. There are no bargains available for used SL500s, for example.

I dont think I'd want an SL from '03 anyway. Strange times when a Jaguar is way more reliable than a Mercedes.

jjacura · August 2005

Knew you were following the prices in another forum. It would be a very tough decision to buy a 2006 if they are trying to get MSRP which would most likely be near last year's and in addition, as I recall, the tech Package is an add-on option in 2006 isn't it.

garyh1 · August 2005

Can I make a suggestion and ask that participants in this forum take a moment and add some information to their Forum Profile-- it's helpful in understanding people's perspectives to know, for example, what part of the country (or world) they live in, and what kind of car(s) they have chosen to own themselves. In some cases, I have noticed from postings that people have purchased new cars since they wrote their Profile, so it needs to be updated (yes, this means you Mark!).

Adding information to your Profile is very easy and doesn't have any real impact on your privacy. Just click on any of the links at the top or right side of the page that mention Profile, Preferences, or My Account, and follow the directions.

Of course, to read any poster's Profile info, you can just click on the blue underlined name in the title line of any post. I find it adds to my enjoyment of the forum to know even just a little bit about the folks with whom we share our opinions and feelings.

bw45sport · August 2005

There are no bargains available for used SL500s, for example

Don't be too sure. I have a beautiful Obsidian Black SL with ash interior that is ready for a new home. Truly a stunning automobile that rides nicer than most luxury sedans while handling like a dream. It can be yours for a very reasonable price.

I dont think I'd want an SL from '03 anyway. Strange times when a Jaguar is way more reliable than a Mercedes.

Oops, did I mention that it's an '03? LOL

'04's and '05's are better....it would be hard for them to get much worse.

jjacura · August 2005

If you are really serious about selling this nice car at a reasonable price I'm chuckling over your last 2 lines and in addition it would be my guess that the host will descend on you like white on rice (either that or drop you like a bad habit) after one more post! LOL! Good Luck anyway!

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