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i'm seriously wondering how the august/sep gas price shock is going to affect the increasing sales of entry and mid size luxury cars, people who became car rich in the booming 90s and more recent years.
A number of my friends who own G35s are clamoring to change because of mileage issues. I was at a BP station on sunday pumping 3.69 premium into my wife's 3 convertible and a guy in a lexus gx470 pulls up and fills up just a few cents over 87 bucks. My eyes turned white, but when I saw his eyes, i saw only the white part and nothing else.. no iris... LOL.
I was waiting for the launch of the 550i, but suddenly, i don't think i'm so horsepower hungry at $3+ of gas....
ksso
I do love my M35x, but in March I was also considering the Honda Accord Hybrid. The decision would still be no different, but I might have paused longer.
Sales of GM's Chevy Tahoe, GMC Yukon and Hummer H2 all fell more than 30 percent, for example.
Not all gas-guzzlers are suffering, however. Luxury car and pickup sales remain brisk, the story said. Although Ford reported a 40 percent drop in Expedition SUV sales, its F-series trucks sold very well, with August sales rising by 7 percent."
Doesnt appear that lux shoppers are bailing on their cars just yet. Even at $3.69, we pay less than Japan and way less than Europe.
Also you may have risked being excommunicated from the LPS forum, and we would miss you :P
Yesterday as I eased out from an intersection the young woman next to me in a HUMMER 2 went to the floor with the excelerator and kept it there...and I'm thinking perhaps gallons per mile not MPG for that rig!
i believe this is atleast a 25% solid block of people in this car market... the LPS market. a lot of us on this forum who live and breathe cars may not be in this 25%, but if this market lost 25% sales, who will be affected the most? for some reason i think not MB or BMW, yes, they'll lose some but lesser than the others or maybe the inifinity and rl will convince people that they offer better milage... i dunno...
ksso
Trip from Cincinnati to Pittsburgh AND back, largely interstate, three people, two shelties, full trunk of luggage, ac running all the time and speed NEVER less than 75MPH -- mainly "S" mode.
This dude sips gasoline! I kept thinking the gas gauge was broken -- hello, hello, are you ever going to drop?
Read Jay Leno's article in Pop Mech -- he (and now I) can't wait for the upcoming diesels!
The A6 3.0TDI must be quite spanky. And even more frugal.
No hybrids (at this time) need apply.
The 3.2 engine in my A6 makes me wonder what could be done with this FSI technology, tho.
Now, there's a rationalization
rrob
on that note, if you ever drive up from the phoenix valley to sedona skip I-17 and drive up over 89A. go catch it in prescott & go over the mingus mountain into Jerome, make sure you get some time there, then down into cottonwood, then into Sedona. Then if you have time, keep up on 89A all the way into flagstaff.
And of course, to bring it back to topic, make sure, to either drive in a convertible or in your LPS....
ksso
Where can I find the sales info for other BMW models - X3 and X5?
I miss the tighter turning radius of my 99RL - harder to maneuver in my office parking garage. However, it's not a big disadvantage and is more than made up by the other benefits of the 05RL.
Any MB owners out there to help me with thier experiences?
Economics 101: Opportunity costs.
BMW 3-series
Infiniti M
Lexus GS
Lexus IS
M-B CLS
Toyota Avalon
What other autos to include and who will win?
Life's too short!
regards,
kyfdx
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I might do this when the GS 450h comes out next spring. After a short time in our RX 400h, can't wait for what the Lexus hybrid performance approach will do for the GS. Hope it comes out with a bit better performance suspension as the 400h has, with 18" wheels and tires standard. Great torque and accleration on demand may really bring the GS up a couple of notches in the LPS evaluations. Fingers crossed anyway.
My 2001 has had LOTS of problems...I have a stack of service records several inches deep. The thing that is maddening is that it's as if (at the time) they had no quality feedback loop. The w210 version was introduced as something like a '97. That's 4 iterations and it still has had all the same bugs everybody talks abou ton this forum. Luckily, with the approx 12k mile service interval you can just pile up the issues and have them address them when you are in for scheduled maint (as long as the problem isn't severe like a leaking transmission x3 or BAS/ABS failure, etc).
My dealership (that I've grown to despise) is a 50+ mile round trip. If it were 5, even after my experience, I'd consider it again. As it is. No way. Bring on the LS460AWD.
Regards,
BigRob.
==========
• How thirsty? GS 300 RWD is rated 22 miles per gallon in town, 30 on the highway. GS 300 AWD is 21/27. GS 430 is 18/25. Premium fuel is necessary to get advertised power. Regular is OK but cuts horsepower 2% to 6%, Lexus says.
I have found that -- based on MSRP -- Audis and BMWs and Mercedes retail prices are closer THERE than they are here.
Earlier this year, I moaned and groaned about the lease price differential between an A6 and a 530. The 530 was (and remains) more from the MSRP perspective. Then -- 7 months ago perhaps -- the lease per month on a thousands more 530 was over $100 less than an A6.
Subvented leases, bumped residuals, etc etc etc aside, at MSRP, the BMW 530 and the Audi A6 3.2 shows the Audi at a several thousand dollar advantage IF you option them as closely as possible. The disparity widens if you attempt to configure "option identical" Audi A6 3.2's vs BMW 530ix's.
Yet, when you go to Germany and price cars, the prices are closer together -- depending on how you look at it, Audis cost more or BMWs cost less.
Go with this for just a second. Politics aside, Germans and Americans are "modern" countries. We have similar access to information and products. And, we have similar wealth that would allow us to acquire LPS cars with an eye toward preference rather than mono-vision favoring the least cost product.
So. . .I saw this:
LPS sales (for August) numbers for Germany:
Total LPS cars sold: 15,723
Audi A6 = 5,739
Merc E = 5,601
BMW 5 = 2,749
The rest = 1,634
The rest = Lexus, Jaguar, Saab, Volvo and a cast of plaster.
In the US Audi or Acura seem to fight tooth and nail to see who can be last on the list.
Using the basic rules of price's ability to effect demand, wouldn't you think that since Audis are closer in cost to their German cousins IN GERMANY than they are here, that Audi would be at even a greater disadvantage over its rivals?
Once again, I wonder how much of Merc and BMW's market penetration and performance is due to the number of retail outlets?
Who knows how many Audi, BMW and Mercedes dealers there are in the US?
Inquiring pea brains want to know. :confuse:
More than # of dealers (although I suspect this has to do with it to an extent), I honestly think that it has more to do with "brand" image in the US.
1) Americans LOVE luxury brand names. MB and BMW has a much higher status cachet in the US relative to Audi.
2) MB and BMW, relatively speaking, do not have the brand status in Germany that they have in the US. In Germany, people probably don't differentiate THAT much between Audi, BMW and MB in terms of status. All three makers sell a LOT of decontented, downmarket cars in Europe, like the A class, etc.
3) The A6 is the newest model out of the 5 and the E. Domestic (in this case German) shoppers tend to go for the "newest" thing out.
4) I would think that because of adverse weather conditions in Germany, the fact that most A6's are Quattro gives it an advantage over the 5 and the E, most of which are RWD.
just my 2 cents
I believe you're right. Surprisingly they have that brand status in Japan.
I think outside Germany, the brand image of MB & BMW far outweighs Audi. Heck I've friends who live in UK who clamor for the E rather than either the 5 or the A6...
As such you see far too few A6 sized cars in europe, compared to the state-side. They are much more into the 3's and C & A4 & A3's... You do see a heck lot of A3's though, don't you?
As an A6 owner, though not the latest avatar of it, I'm simply not passionate about it's ownership. I like the overall wholesomeness of the entire package, and i think the interior is far more personable than most others despite the irritating excess of buttons and switches. However, it just doesn't make me passionate about it. Now of course, if the plethora of things that break doesn't reign in anytime soon, i'm looking to boot the thing out of my life.
on the other hand, i'm irritated as hell by the little issues and the # of trips i have to make to the dealer for the 3 series convertible. i'm pissed by the gremlins in my car. it also has a fairly boring interior. but man the delicious drive... now that's a car that makes me smile, just by firing up the lovely inline 6 engine and oh la la, the drive.... yumm yumm good.
ksso
Prior to that owned a '00 CLK430. Not as unreliable as SL but still had plenty of visits to service for electrical problems.
When the current version of the C-Class was introduced over 30 percent of it's owners reported significant electrical problems within the first year of ownership.
The prior version of the ML-Class was the worst car Mercedes-Benz has ever put on the road. My local service advisor indicated that they could run a profitable service shop working on ML's alone. There were few of those vehicles that made it any significant time without electrical problems, window problems, and air conditioning problems.
The last E-Class? Sumptuous ride, wonderful materials, and for the most part very classy. Reliability? Ask the many frustrated E owners and you'll know the answer.
For almost three years now M-B has stated that they understood that they needed to return the quality of their vehicles to the standards they had set the previous 90-odd years. Long term reliability tests have not indicated that they have effectively done this. Rather than an improvement in quality, '04 vehicles actually showed more problems per vehicle than the '03's.
Perhaps the greatest indignity and the one I found most amusing was former CEO Jurgen Schrempp's adventure in attempting to drive back to the office in Mercedes-Benz's home city of Stuttgart. Mr. Schrempp found that the navigation system misguided him three straight times in his attempt to get to the office. It's sad that the navigation supplier couldn't manage to get the info right for M-B's home city, and it's even sadder that it took Mr. Schrempp three times to figure out it was wrong. I'm afraid the company has suffered from this same inability to recognize significant problems for some time now. It pains me to make these comments because I've respected what this company has done and had great experiences with M-B autos prior to the last two. I for one, however, will no longer pay premium prices to be their beta tester.
And also, you might find some others in this forum that believe their LPS choice, quite to the contrary IS not boring. I personally don't like the Infiniti design and would choose Acura, BMW, Lexus, and even Audi over Infiniti...but again IMO.
I looked up the word, "hooey," to make sure it applied however.
It does.
I ordered an "M35X" because at the time I felt it was of very high value and the Audi A6 3.2 was priced out of touch with reality and there was no 530xi at the moment.
The M35X is a fine car, perhaps an excellent or great car.
I would be happy to have one. It was my second choice, however.
Your choice IS best for you. The "M" has hardly separated itself from the the other "boring" brands -- indeed IMHO it is the poster child for "boring" (in terms of its styling.)
Superior? Well, while I am certainly NOT against the M35X, I would have to say that the Acura RL, Audi q, BMW x, Mercedes 4Matics and even the Cadillac STS (AWD) are not bad cars. These cars, in many respects are more similar than dissimilar.
You should enjoy your car, be proud of your car and I hope the ownership experience is fantastic for you.
Perhaps rather than declare the rest of us LPS owners of something OTHER than an M as having chosen "inferior" cars, you could regale us with stories about your vehicle without resorting to blanket statements.
OK, so the M isn't boring to you -- and I already said I would take one -- but there are quite possibly others who will have strong disagreement and will fight tooth and nail the statements such as the ones where their choices have been put down.
The LPS cars we discuss are not carbon copies of each other, but in terms of their overall features, functions and driving experience the differences are real and are subtle.
I know that my Audi A6 3.2 is the best and it has separated itself from all these other lesser cars that have the audacity to claim LPS status. Or words to that effect. See? :shades: (Oh BTW, that last bit: just kidding!)