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Recently, I sat in the G and the 5 back to back at the DC auto show (the BMW and Infiniti sections were very close by) and found the room to be similar, as the numbers indicate. The 5 did seem to have more shoulder room though. Wouldn't know anything about baby seats fitting, however.
Apparently you did your research and chose the car that fits your needs better, and that's all it comes down to really.
As an aside, the RL felt pretty cramped, smaller than the TL inside. This surprised me. Even my wife, who was DYING to get out of the show, made her only comment of the day, and that was, "why is it so tight inside?".
The M was on a pedestal so they didn't let us sit in it, but the doors were open, and an "eyeball" look seemed to confirm that the M was more spacious than any other car in this class except the STS.
In terms of styling, I like the front and front/side of the M the best by far. The side profile, I preferred the new GS. And from the rear, I liked the (GASP!) 5 the best.
The RL and the E had well-proportioned, inoffensive styling, but didn't really evoke an emotional response.
I think the GS and M are the most attractive new cars in the segment. The A6 is very pleasant, but the big snout hasnt warmed on me. The STS is just plain ugly, and the 5 series is pug ugly.
"Infiniti claims the rear-seat room to be on a par with that of the Lexus LS430 (at 46 cubic feet, the M45 has two fewer than the Lexus), and sure enough, we found space back there tolerable even for a six-foot-five passenger."
"In the M45 Sport we flung about on the roads of the Angeles National Forest, this behavior became highly addictive."
"The sweeping, wave-shaped dashboard has a shallow contour angle that makes the surfaces recede from the occupants, thus increasing the perception of space. All in all, it is a pleasant environment."
"we think the M45 feels remarkably organic at the controls when being hurried along. It turns in willingly and hangs on tenaciously. The steering is naturally weighted and wonderfully precise."
"a five-channel DVD Bose Studio Surround stereo with 14 speakers (two in each front seat) that has to be heard to be believed"
http://caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=9- - 024&page_number=1
"And why is the M getting a new skin after only 2 years ??? Contrast this scenario with the GS which has remained unchanged in like 6 years running. See my point?"
You may recall that the original Lexus ES250 was a stop-gap based on the existing Camry. A totally unremarkable vehicle for such an upscale division. Lexus understood it was only a stop-gap until the next-gen Camry platform was ready for prime time shortly after the original launch.
Even the original GS300 was considered a cush-mobile by all accounts as Lexus navigated toward some semblance of an automotive identity. Any sporting capabilities now exhibited by Lexus are truly recent phenomena! At least the G and new M are recognized players on the sporting side of the fence... and have been since their release.
The Infinity M scenario is similar. The short-lived 1st-edition M was as much a stop-gap as the "entry-level" ES years ago and bears no relevance to the upcoming M variants. I'm the 1st to suggest that the outgoing M looked like a generic "car" designed for a TV commercial that was not selling cars. About as successful as that 1st Lexus ES! They were simply getting in the game within that market segment.
I hate to burst your bubble, but all of these vehicles have their redeeming qualities and offer variation on a theme to the buyer. Your "Lexus rules" mentality grows old and offers nothing of interest regarding the comparative attributes of the cars in this segment.
Let's debate design philosophy (some like Monet.. some like Picasso!) and adherence to the mission the cars were designed to address. Even as a current e39 owner, I can easily see the discomfort with certain BMW developments such as iDrive. Does it detract from the car's mission? Maybe so... maybe not... in the eyes of the designers. COnsumer acceptance/rejection will tell the tale.
Consumers (that's us) need to provide feedback to the OEM's regarding dumb ideas. Mfgr's... yes, including Lexus... deserve to win business away from former class leaders if they slip and fail to understand the consumer.
As far as I am concerned, Lexus produces terrific vehicles and has the quality production thing down cold. Even Porsche has worked with Toyota to improve production practices. By combining German engineering prowess with Japanese production methods, you'll begin to see the overall quality rankings improve in MB, BMW, Audi, etc.
If the Germans refuse to acknowledge their quality challenges, then you will, indeed, see a rise in prominence of Japanese makes in the higher-end performance segments. The cows are out of the barn, so the next few years should be interesting!
Just please save the single-threaded mentality for Lexus-specific boards where patting each other on the back is welcomed...
I love BMW's, but after giving it some open minded thought, I believe Edmunds is right on with their lists. I think the 300C is one awesome car. It does not have the image or prestige of BMW, MB, or Lexus, or does it?? I just read that Shaq just bought one as did Michael Vick, and some real life CEO's just bought one. Interesting.
Seems everyone who don't agree with you have to show-off how much more they know. What gives ? This forum is a comparison board for lux sport sedans, isn't it ? Everyone is merely stating their opinion, juiced up with some things they read somewhere. Nothing wrong with that. Trouble is many people don't really have their opinion except that which is spouted by C&D, MT, Automotive News, etc... Like these auto rags are that objective with no biases to one car/brand over any other....Need not name names here....
Personally, I've driven BMWs (330/528/530), Audis (A4/A6), Lexi (IS/GS/LS), MBs (C230 Kompressor/E320/S500), to name a few. I use my senses and judgements to form my opinions, and not base my thoughts on what some auto rags claim. Where FACTS exist that prove one car is superior over another, you won't find me arguing that one bit. So all you gotta do is prove your point, that's all.
To state that the GS will whoop the M is an opinion. To state the opposite is also an opinion. Why not wait for these cars to get here and we'll see how they stack up ?
I don't know a single poster here who DOESN'T have an opinion of his/her own, and only refers to the opinions of the mags. If you find one, let me know.
2006 Canadian GS prices came out today, they seem to be about 10% more expensive than comparably equipped M35/45. That's Canada though, it'd probably be different here.
I bet very, very few M's are sold without the Journey package. The fact that xenon lights are an option on the M but standard on the G is quite odd. I bet it's just a marketing thing to leave off the base M, just so they could say advertise as "starting at $39,xxx".
March Motortrend Comparo.
1) M35
2) RL
3) 530i sport
4) STS V6
5) A6
6) S-type
M35 stats:
0-60-6.3
60-0-118 ft
1/4 mile-14.7@92
slalom-64.4
skidpad-.86g
The M35 was a non-sport version.
M
I find it amazing how you seem to be able to comment on every car like you have experience with them yet you seem to have not driven any of them. Your opinion (to me at least) will only have some worth after you actually drive a car you talk about. The same holds true for anyone out there.
Are you 1sicklex by any chance?:) You sound just like he does
As for the new M, I still think its interior looks weak based on pictures. Horrible layout and I doubt its material quality is up to top standards.
Oh and I am left scratching my head about those saying the RL is sooooo small inside. What cars are you people driving?
Just scroll..
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Go BMW!!!
You aren't criticizing his opinion or his post.. You are questioning his "right" to give an opinion.. based on him not driving the car..
We can all comment on any car.. and we all have biases.. there are a lot of opinions that I discount completely, based on the content, etc.. this is when I use my scroll button.
But, it does nothing to further the discussion, to denigrate someone's opinion because you think they aren't qualified to give it..
If you have a differing opinion, by all means, share it with us... It is the personal tone of disrespect that starts breaking down the discussion...and I'm sure you didn't mean it that way..
As always.. this is just my opinion..
regards,
kyfdx
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Where did you see me say "I've driven the Acura and hated it"? I do intend to test drive the Acura. I dislike the 5 series even more, but I still drove one. I do like to experience what these cars are like. Thus far everything I've said about the RL does not indicate that I "pretended" to drive one just to bash the car.
regards,
kyfdx
(who is kidding, for pete's sake)
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And as was pointed out, scrolling past messages that you feel have no value is the thing to do rather than making a personal challenge as to one's "right" to hold an opinion. If you really have a problem with a post, the only acceptable response is to drop me an email and let me handle it.
Thanks.
"I have not driven this car, I don't own this car, my opinion is based solely on what I have read in biased magazine articles, meanlingless statistics, and my own bias toward another car that I really like."
Again, there is no reason to require certain criteria be met before someone posts an opinion - whether those criteria have to do with first-hand knowledge of the vehicle itself or any kind of posting/disclosure rules or anything else. All opinions on the vehicles are welcome. If you find reason not to value any given opinion because any of the criteria which are important to you have not been met, then just skip it. It really is that simple.
Now it is time to move on and get back to what we are here to talk about which is the uh, well, I think you've gotten the idea!
-)
Those observations have also been made even by Car and Driver which put it in their top 10 and by several others on the RL forum (some who like the car and some who don't). It is amusing to see defenders of the car deny measurements and side by side comparisons people have done at recent auto shows.
To me, the SH-AWD is nice but alot of the other technology the car offers is a poor substitute for having some of the deficiencies noted. It looks like the M series (or even a TL with AWD) could compare very favorably.
The history of TL and RL makes me think that Acura may not give the TL AWD specifically for this reason. The TL has always killed the RL in sales, and has always been a significantly better value. While the RL is no longer the stodgy, over-priced Toyota Avalon that it once was, I dont think it offers enough over the TL to justify a $17,000 hike.
In the days when Infiniti was a joke, Acura had an easier time as the fun, value priced Lexus alternative. Now Infiniti is a stronger force than Acura, and they've carved out the perfect sporty Ying to Lexus' luxury Yang. It puts Acura in a very uncomfortable spot somewhere in the middle, in a similar situation that Audi is in vs. BMW and Mercedes.
I got a call from my dealer yesterday. They are receiving their first two M's on 2/17. The pre-ordered (at least here in west MI)cars will arrive the first week in March.
Lexus was plush, reliable as all get-up, and the best service experience (we were hardly there, but when we were it was 1st class). A little boring on the ride (LS 400), but silky smooth.
Audi (A6 and A8) was a great experience- a little spotty on the reliability, as there seemed to be middling little problems every couple of months that would require a half day at the dealership. But the service department was excellent, and probably the second best sales dealer experience.
Acura was a nice experience (TL, with our best friends and neighbors owning the new RL). Solid car, nothing too fancy. A shade over the "luxury line", if you will.
Infiniti was the best sales experience we had anywhere- to this day. I35, which is a nice but not great car. No reliability issues whatsoever. Looked at the G35, but too small. LOVE what I've seen/heard about the M- it may be my next car. Inherited a '91 Q45, and it was a great car while we owned it.
BMW is what I am currently driving- an '05 530i. LOVE the car- but am having some initial spotty service. Not a reliability issue- a problem loading software. It's a service issue, but not a reliability- that's a big difference IMO.
So.......I really think ALL of the current offering of the luxury manufacturers are excellent vehicles. Some may be faster than others, some more luxurious, some with a better repair history, etc.... But we are in an age where 40-60k is going to allow you the choice between close to a dozen fabulous sedans. Compare that to a decade ago. Not even close.
2006 GS300 AWD with Nav 49999 (without levinson stereo)
2006 GS300 AWD w/out Nav 47024 (without levinson stereo)
2006 GS430 RWD w/Nav and chrome 58743 (nav and chrome are standard)
The above was posted by someone else in another forum. I can't vouch for the authenticity.
Now that it's time to trade I'm thinking Acura RL or even the Infinti FX45 (I know it's not in the list). I'm headed out to test drive it in the next week or so along with the Acura RL and the new A6. I did a side-by-side of specifications and features of the RL, A6, 320, and FX45. Lot in common and a lot in of great choices in this price range. At the end of the day, though, the Audi has sold me on AWD.
M
jrock65,
Was that the current 225hp 530i or the new 255hp model?
M
M