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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    And how does your BMW service department treat you when you show up munching on a Palm steak? Gimme a break! Give us all a break. I like my E39 530 a lot, but for God's sake it's just a car.
  • . . .the M's several times.

    At the time, April 2005, ordering an M35x with Journey and Technology seemed the ultimate smart thing to do.

    Drove like a German car, close to the BMW, perhaps slightly better than the A6, had the AWD, great electronics, and great deal.

    Seemed plenty powerful, especially compared to the then anemic 530i.

    Seemed like a better deal than the Audi -- AT THE TIME.

    I ended up because of the deal alone with the Audi, which was my first choice, but not for $200 per month more than the Infiniti.

    I have had, for those newcomers, over 2 dozen Audis -- but I felt they had priced themselves out of the market.

    Perhaps the deal I got was unique, if so, this may be my last Audi.

    But it will not be because of the car -- it has been great in every way.

    At 9,000 miles, I love driving it.
  • Pardon my ignorance, but is Palm Steakhouse the Candian version of Ponderosa?

    LOL The restaurant wasn't very popular but they released sales figures indicating that they sold more porterhouses than rival steak houses. Now the restaurant is flooded with people seeking the steak that comes with a cute little badge that reads "Ultimate Feeding Routine". You need only pay 20% more to enjoy too.

    Jo2, the M does emit a rumble under acceleration. I actually enjoy the note and even if I didn't I don't find it noisy enough to be bothersome. It is a performance sedan. As with a previous post, I generally have the music loud enough that I don't hear it anyway.

    Will you feel envious of a BMW when it pulls up next to you? Only you can answer that question. If what others think of your car is that important you may need the little propeller. I'm with drtravel in that it doesn't mean much to me. The only compliment that I'll pay to BMW today is that I only needed to twist their arm, not break it, to buy back my defective 7er.

    Have fun with your choice.
  • I think it's great that Audi stepped up to the plate and showed that they viewed you as a valuable customer Mark. It's unfortunate that they waited so long to do so but at least they did it. My 20+ year loyalty to M-B,unfortunately, was not appreciated as was yours. Perhaps they've bought back enough cars that they've drawn a line.

    I've been meaning to ask you a question about a problem that you had mentioned with your A6. Now that the higher- end cars are seemingly headed in a push-button start direction, were you dead in the water when that part failed? I've really grown to love the feature as I've had "Keyless Go" on the M-B and now the similar feature on the M. I was just curious if there is a work around should that part fail.

    Happy A6 motoring!
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Never cared much for either of my 2 BMW service departments I've had to deal with.
    Never met a BMW service employee who wasn't cold and impersonal.

    I never show up at the service dept. munching anything. I always save room for the Famous Amos chocolate chip cookies and the best hot chocolate I have ever tasted.
    Both courtesy of the service dept.
    I wouldn't be surprised If some folks just go in there off the street and munch for free.
    Who really checks?

    Believe me, I know it's just a car. Most of the time I am deliberately being provocative to stir up the pot and most of the time I succeed.

    You'll have to excuse me but I must place a call to order a 32 oz. t-bone before the Palm closes.
    For me, they will deliver! I am after all a BMW lessee.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I've read in magazines that have years and years of experience with the VQ that it has gotten somewhat gruff and coarse in its old age from so many displacement increases. While the sheer muscle of the engine is undeniable, it pales in terms of refinement to pretty much every other engine in the class, except for the S-type which is stuck with the poor old Taurus engine. If the rumored 3.7L for the next G is a new from the ground up engine, there's a good chance the M37 will be much more refined.
  • I wish I could permanently turn off the self-dimming rear view mirror

    Just out of curiousity, why do you dislike this feature? I've really liked this feature on both my RLs.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    A journalist working on a personal finance story about auto insurance is specifically hoping to find some people who pay enormous amounts in auto insurance. (For example, perhaps some young males who own pricey performance cars.)

    If you're someone who's paying several thousand dollars annually in auto insurance, or has a son or daughter who is, please respond to pr@edmunds.com before the end of the day Weds., Nov. 23, with your daytime contact number.

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    I wish I could permanently turn off the self-dimming rear view mirror

    Just out of curiousity, why do you dislike this feature? I've really liked this feature on both my RLs.


    I have tinted windows. At night time when you combine that with a self-dimming rear mirror - it's pretty dark back there. I turn it off and can see just fine. It's just when I turn the car off and start it again, the mirror is back at it's self-dimming mode. I don't dislike the feature - just let me control it some more.
  • I have tinted windows. At night time when you combine that with a self-dimming rear mirror - it's pretty dark back there. I turn it off and can see just fine. It's just when I turn the car off and start it again, the mirror is back at it's self-dimming mode. I don't dislike the feature - just let me control it some more.

    That makes sense - I didn't think of that since I don't have tinted windows. Actually, I'm surprised you can't turn it off. In my RL, and other cars I've driven with this feature, there's a button on the mirror that turns it off. Since it's electrically activated, I would guess you could disable it even if there's not button to turn it off.
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Posts: 119
    This may be dumb, but have you tried covering the sensor?
  • In other forums, people whose start buttons fail merely use the key manually as the key hole is still there.

    I'm not sure if the key hole is there on all LPS's with keyless start, but I would suspect it is as a backup...
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    The editor just appeared on CNBC.

    MotorTrend's Car Of The Year

    Winner - Honda Civic
    2nd - Mazda MX-5
    3rd - BMW 3-series

    A bit off topic but the M should have been in the top 3 and I'm sure they considered the GS, so now it's on-topic!? LOL!
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Believe it or don't, a Bangle 5 series pulled into the parking lot at Target yesterday, a father and son got out and oogled my M45 Sport, then drove away.

    I sometimes get "interested" (curiosity or envy? - who knows - I'm not a mind reader) looks from BMW owners. Bangle's 5 series are very common in SoCal but Ms are still a rare breed. A few told me they didn't even know about the car but wanted to know more.

    PS When I do see another M we both nod at each other. Starting to form a brotherhood?
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Congrats. to Motor Trend for coming back to the fold and once again acknowledging a BMW as one of their top 3 cars of the year.

    I have read a lot of good things lately about the Civic-especially about its great gas mileage-a very reasonable alternative to a hybrid.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The interior of the Civic is about as far from typical Honda conservatism as you can get. They took a big risk there, and it looks like its paying off.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Despite Honda beating BMW to the punch :cry:
    I cant think of a more worthy car to choose as number one than the Honda Civic!

    Honda Civic Sedan/Coupe
    Honda Civic Si
    Honda Civic Hybrid

    These Civics satisfy a wide range of the car market, except ofcourse the luxury car market. Oops I am off topic again!
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    How biased can you be? It's nicer than the 5 Series ever has been, the Infiniti is very cheaply made, the E Class has nothing to set it apart except the star on the hood, the RL is boring, and the Lexus is over-hyped. The A6 has been like the only car in the class almost universally praised. The Jaguar, don't get me started on that. I'm sure you've never driven an A6.

    This forum isn't about M3 equivalents.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    wait, wait, wait... i don't understand your post at all. You got it for the deal (the A6), but then you say that it will not be because of the car? It doesn't make sense. Ohhh, were you talking about if you were to not get an Audi, it wouldn't be because of the car? Yes, I get it now. But, if you love your car so much, why would you get the Infiniti for your next? Price isn't a huge factor for Audi/Infiniti/Lexus. They are the best deals in the class. And even though Audi and Lexus are in tier one and Infiniti is in tier two, it still seems to be a good deal.

    Mercedes-Benz and BMW are very different. I would say honestly that Mercedes-Benz over prices all of their cars by at least $5,000. The E-Class wagon starts at just under $60K, while the new A6 Avant starts at under $50K!
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Posts: 119
    The M is a 2006. I know this excluded it from Car and Driver's Top Ten Consideration...I don't know what criteria MT uses since I never read that mag.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    The magazine picked what it felt were the best 3 cars and BMW was chosen as one of the three.
  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    The new 5 series X wagon is about 62-63k loaded up, and a similar A6 Avant will be about 56 grand.
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    The magazine picked what it felt were the best 3 cars and BMW was chosen as one of the three.

    The use of the word "best" is not what this "award" is about. They choose the most significant auto that was released during the past year. Just look at their past winners - these cars were significant to the auto company involved or to the industry. The 3-series is BMW's bread and butter so they probably felt that BMW updated the car appropriately - I vaguely remember in their review of the 3-series when it first came out they praised BMW for not over-Banglizing the design and not making iDrive standard - although even I'm getting tired of the iDrive criticism.

    For Infiniti the G sedan turned the company around and hence won the award. I thought the M might have been a contender not because it's the best LPS but because it's success thus far will likely mean the Infiniti will be more of a luxury player. Haven't actually read the article (early December) - just reporting what the editor said on CNBC. He did say that the 3-series was overpriced.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Posts: 647
    The New York Times/Edmunds selected their choices for the top ten interiors of 2005. To quote their choices:

    Top 10 Interiors for 2005
    1. Audi A8/TT: Audi wrote the book when it comes to crafting stylish cabins. Slide into the A8's if you're looking for luxury. With loads of rear legroom and enough wood to fuel a forest fire, the A8 offers an environment that's more jaw-droppingly luxe than that of any other vehicle in its class. If sporty's more your thing, you'll love the TT's industrial-themed surroundings, which meld modern and retro elements.

    2. BMW X5: BMW cabins are known for being governed by an air of almost spartan restraint. Not so with the X5's. There's no skimping on the poplar, and the leather is so creamy, it could raise your cholesterol. The X5's cabin is easily one of our favorite places to spend our time.

    3. Lexus SC 430: The SC 430 offers one of the most exquisitely finished cabins we've ever seen. Its styling cues call to mind a plush drawing room in a Riviera hotel. Burnished wood is everywhere  and if you want even more timber, a spring-loaded wooden cover can be used to hide much of the center stack. The best part? It's a convertible, so passers-by will be able to enjoy your cabin with you.

    4. Toyota Prius: With its deeply recessed gauges and idiosyncratic layout, the Prius's cockpit looks like something from a sci-fi flick. We especially like being able to watch a digital rendering of the inner workings of the car's hybrid technology on the center display screen. Vegans can enjoy this car in good conscience; this environmentally friendly hatch is resolutely leatherfree.

    5. Honda Element: If you're the outdoorsy type, the Element's rugged, go-anywhere interior will no doubt whet your whistle. There's no carpeting on the floors, just a rugged material called Thermoplastic Olefin that may be wiped down or swept with a broom. And it's available with waterproof seats. Surfers and mountain bikers, the line starts here.

    6. Maserati Coupe/Spyder: These Maseratis boast stunning sheet metal, but scoot into the cabin, and things get even better. Curvy lines, an elegantly clean aesthetic  on the inside, these cars look like something from a very glamorous foreign film, circa 1965. The only thing missing is Sophia Loren in the passenger seat.

    7. Rolls-Royce Phantom: Brushed aluminum. Bird's eye maple. Supple cowhide. With the storied Rolls-Royce name behind it and a price tag of over $300 grand, you'd expect the Phantom's interior to be heaven on earth  and it is. The only bad thing about getting inside this car is getting back out again.

    8. Toyota Sienna: The Sienna's spacious interior offers a lot more luxury and style than you have a right to expect from a minivan; slide inside, and you'll swear you've stepped into a Lexus. Polished wood touches and baby-soft leather make this van's cabin a leader in its class.

    9. Porsche Cayenne: When you settle into the cockpit of the Cayenne, you get a leather-drenched experience that delights all the senses. The artfully lit cabin seduces the eye with its blend of high gloss and performance edge. And the cabin feels even better than it looks. We couldn't stop running our fingers over the downy suede that lines the roof.

    10. Volkswagen Passat: Thank goodness for the Passat, the car that proves you don't have to pay an arm and a leg to ride in style. Its interior is clean, modern and surprisingly upscale, given that this is an affordable family car. For the money, you won't find a better-looking cabin.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Posts: 647
    MT also picked the Ford Thunderbird as "Car of the Year" a few years ago, a car that did nothing particularly well, including selling ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Yes. I agree. I thought about that after I posted.
    The 3 most significant autos were selected. Not necessarily the 3 "best."
    In that case I don't know why the 2006 3 series was selected. It doesn't drive significantly better than the 2005 3 series and the brakes in the 2006 3 series are disturbingly grabby! And the rear headlights are absolutely horrid!

    Some real significant BMW news:

    BMW was selected by KBB for having the best resale brand-tied for first with Mini.

    BMW was also selected by ALG for its residual value award in the luxury brand category for the second consecutive year.

    See High End Luxury Marques, post # 11407 for the links.

    Love it or hate it, one must admit BMW's hold their value quite well over time.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Totally agree on the X5!
    Absolutely BMW's best interior.
    Nobody could argue about the quality of the wood in this vehicle.
    Fantastic amount of legroom. Great seats.
    Drove the 4.4L V-8, 5 months ago.
    Almost closed on one, until I saw the gas mileage statistics.
    Ugh!
    Took the 545 instead.
  • bmwdougbmwdoug Posts: 248
    The Infiniti M is a nice looking car. But, lets not kid ourselves, it does not have the prestige of a BMW 5 Series. I do not currently own a BMW, but I am in the market for a new car. And, as my screen name would suggest, I am looking at a BMW. However, I am not locked into one.

    Now, prestige should not be a factor when selecting a car, but the bottom line is; it is a factor. Whether we want to admit or not, prestige is a factor with every purchase. For example, a Timex will keep time for $20. A Rolex will also keep time for $3800 on up. Why buy the Rolex? Two reasons, Prestige and a Great Watch.

    Now, back to cars. The M is very well made, it is a great value, but it does not yet have the same class, status, years of engineering expertise, and sophistication of a 5 Series BMW. Reality is Reality. I know some people are going to say that the M drives better. Maybe, maybe not. But, I think everyone will agree the driving and handling of a BMW is superb. Interior could be better in my honest opinion. But, it is a typical BMW and the interior is nice, it just is not Lexus nice. But, the BMW has soul.

    In regards to Bangle 5 Series, the design always catches my eye. I like the design as others do. Some people do not like it. But, the funny thing is, other car manufacturers seem to be copying the Bangle design. In fact, I see much of the Bangle Design in the Infiniti M.

    Here is how I sum up a BMW in regards to the competition. The competition reminds me of a GREAT Girl I once knew:

    She was a good girl, knew her way around, blueblood, excellent grades, low maintenance, good bod, high energy, and athletic tennis player, but lacked a cool factor, spirit, sophistication, and boring as hell.

    "
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Love it or hate it, one must admit BMW's hold their value quite well over time.

    Interesting articles.

    In the KBB article under their listing of "2006 Best Resale Value: Top 10" both the Infiniti G35 and M45 made the list as well as the 5-series. Under their listing for "2006 Best Resale Value: Luxury Category" the M45 beat out the 5-series stating "The luxury segment is littered with vehicles that hold their value extremely well. In this competitive field the Infiniti M45 stands out because of its brand-new styling and its strong concentration on performance and consumer-pleasing content."

    The ALG survey is for 2005 cars only so the M wasn't around. Curious that the G35 was best in it's segment and no BMW won any segment. Just leads me to believe that BMW had no "residual losers" so their average rating would be higher than say M-B which had a few winners but also a few turkeys which lowered their average rating below BMW. Infiniti did have two 5-star depreciation cars - the FX and G while the BMW 5-series was rated as only 4-stars. Wouldn't surprise me that for 2006 the M might also be a 5-star.

    Because they base the depreciation and residuals numbers on MSRP Lexus has a built-in disadvantage. They have a much wider difference between actual selling price and MSRP so Lexus offers some pretty steep discounts compared to other cars. Say a BMW costs 50K, you get 1K off and it depreciates 38% from its selling price giving a value of 30.4K for a 61% residual. The Lexus costs 50K, you get 5K off and it also depreciates 38% from its selling price giving a value of 27.9K for a 56% residual. So even though both cars depreciated the same from the actual cash outlay, the BMW has a better resale percentage. Looks can be deceiving.

    Wasn't it Mark Twain that said "There are three types of liars: liars, damn liars and statistics."
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Now, prestige should not be a factor when selecting a car, but the bottom line is; it is a factor.

    I agree with you 100% on this. I stated in one of my earlier posts this was actually one factor I considered. Everyone has to decide how much the badge (i.e. "prestige") means to them. To me it was not that important.

    PS Which girl would make a better wife and mother - I definitely value these more than a car.
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