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Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    "I find it amazing how you seem to be able to comment on every car like you have experience with them yet you seem to have not driven any of them. Your opinion (to me at least) will only have some worth after you actually drive a car you talk about. The same holds true for anyone out there"

     

    "As for the new M, I still think its interior looks weak based on pictures. Horrible layout and I doubt its material quality is up to top standards."

     

    First you criticize a poster for commenting on a car without driving it first, then you go on to comment on the Infiniti's interior layout and material quality, based on pictures???? Doesn't your logic of driving the car before forming an opinion hold for you?????
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    merc1,

     

    It was the current 225hp, but it had the only manual tranny in the comparo.

     

    0-60 times

     

    RL 6.7

    Audi 7.3

    BMW 6.8 (manual)

    Cadillac 6.8

    M35 6.3

    Jaguar 7.8

     

    Apparently, this was the only negative comment about the M:

     

    "....some editors had issues with the layout of the secondary controls for the climate and audio systems on the center stack, particulary the ones atop the dash."

     

    Some other comments on the M:

     

    ".... superb weight balance and pinpoint steering make this sport sedan a willing partner on any road you care to choose. No wonder the M35 smoked the competition in acceleration test and tied for first with the sport package equipped 530i in braking and the figure eight test."
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    I wouldn't bet on it having a 3.0 litre engine.. even though the nomenclature suggests that..

     

    I can't imagine them coming out with a new $47K car, and not bumping up the numbers... I'd say, expect 250 hp ++

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  • drewsrxdrewsrx Member Posts: 57
    I would bet on it, because this is directly from the Lexus USA website:

     

    "The next phenomenon from Lexus is coming. The entirely new GS 300 comes packed with the force of 245-hp in a 3.0-liter V6 engine. And a ferocious 300-hp, 4.3-liter V8 lives under the hood of the GS 430.

     

    The style is groundbreaking — sleek sculpted lines, slingshot windows and a longer wheelbase take the GS into uncharted design territory. An innovative push button starts the ignition. And to complement the powerful engines, the GS sports a six-speed sequential-shift automatic transmission.

     

    The phenomenon begins March 2005."
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    Didn't the last GS300 have a straight-six? Although the power bump is good, it is disheartening to see Toyota ditch the inline engine...

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  • drewsrxdrewsrx Member Posts: 57
    Yes, the 1st and 2nd Gen GS300 did have an inline-6 engine. "Economies of scale", means it doesn't make financial sense to have the inline-6 engine around any longer, when they have a global V6 that produces more power, is more compact, has lower emissions, and is more fuel efficient. Nissan did not continue with the RB26 I6 on the new Skyline for the same reason. The 2JZ and RB26 were great I6's for modding potential, but they don't make USDM financial sense anymore. Besides, Nissan and Toyota both have impressive V6's with the VQ and GR series. The I6 is still a great configuration though. It can't be touched for smoothness and natural internal balance.
  • cruller001cruller001 Member Posts: 12
    The Bimmer was the current 225hp 530i sport. But I do not believe it's 3rd place finish was due to a lack of power. The main gripes were the active steering(overly intrusive)i-drive(too many sub-menus) and what else, price.
  • cruller001cruller001 Member Posts: 12
    I wonder why an E-class Mercedes was not included in the Motortrend comparo.
  • valuebuyervaluebuyer Member Posts: 24
    Acura Canada RL Sales Fall Off a Cliff....

     

    Guess what - now that the Infiniti M pricing is out (at up to $15K CAD LESS than the RL), the 2 people who actually bought RL's in Canada this year at the USD$48K sticker price plus the Acura Canada "Let's See If We Get a Sucker" extra premium of $11+K over current F/X (CAD$71,500) have had their drivers licenses revoked for being 'Sub-Normal' (IQ under 90).

     

    I've tested the RL, and I've sat in the M (in dealers in Canada by late Feb, for test drives). The M35AWD - also a 6 - has the best engine in its class, more/better 'gadgets' and feels far less claustrophobic. I can't imagine any more Subnormals willing to pay the "Canadian extortion premium" over the US pricing once the M is available for order - now.

     

    Of course, if you have to spend 72K CAD, you can consider the Lexus GS (CAD$66K) - something tells me lexus still has better fit and finish (and residual values) than boring Acura. (Ghosn has pulled the Infiniti brand way ahead of Honda/Acura on styling alone). If they sell more than 10 RLs in Canada at their dumb price grab, I'd be surprised.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Yeah that really makes no sense. An Acura the most expensive Japanese sedan? WHAT?
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Thanks, and wouldn't you know it I got my issue today. The whole camparo lacked the depth of their usual comparos. No sidebars or anything just rankings.

     

    I must say I'm impressed by the M35/45 combo, now all I have to do is see one on the street to truly gauge the styling.

     

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I agree, power isn't the reason why the 530i came in 3rd, and more power for the 2006 model isn't going to change the automags biggest problems with the car, styling and that idrive stuff.

     

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I have to say I think overall the M35/45, GS300/430 or RL will ever singularly catch the 5-Series let alone the E-Class in sales. That said I do think the 5-Series will dip to about 40K units this year and the E-Class to just under 50K, but the RL I think stands to be in the biggest trouble once the A6, M, and GS hit their stride. The M is a better value and the GS has the Lexus quality/dealer maching behind it. The RL looks overpriced from where I stand, not an Acura trait as noted above. The crowd that likes the Japanese luxury cars already think the E and 5-Series are overpriced so I doubt they'll suffer any dramatic drop in sales this year. Plus they aren't exactly sitting still. Then where does the A6 and STS fit in? MT pretty much trashed the STS V6. From what I've read Infiniti and Acura both want to move between 20-25K units this year compared to their pitiful 3K and 6K units for the last M and RL. Can they do it?

     

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    My guesstimates for the next few years: the M35\45 continues to dominate in comparisons, and does further damage to the German superiority image and BMW especially. The GS bows to a reasonably good reception, and Lexus continually adds new engines and a hybrid for several years to keep the car in the spot light. The RL's 15 minutes of fame end, and dealers will quickly start discounting the car. Acura will add some kind of sports\appearance package, but it wont be enough.

     

    The 5 series sells worse than hoped\expected. BMW puts a sticker on the dash to explain how to access the climate functions as in 7 series. Audi chips away a bit at BMW and Mercedes buyers who refuse to buy Japanese, but the A6 never amounts to more than a midpack player. The E class continues to win the sales charts because its a Mercedes.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    and some advertising... what really is going to make the new M35/45 sell any better than the last M? If I recall, that car had the horsepower and price advantage, also..

     

    I think almost every M35 will be priced at $47K or above.. so, it won't exactly be a screaming bargain.. and, even with the V8, you are talking about a $55K car... How big is that market?

     

    Other than being "new", I don't see big things for it... I sort of remember the last M selling for $10K off MSRP.. I see big rebates and incentives coming for this one also...

     

    Most people aren't like us geeks here on Edmunds.. they don't read the car magazine comparisons.. The mid-size luxury market is a tough nut to crack.. There is the 5-series, the E-class... and the also-rans..

     

    The new entrants do okay for the first year or two, when they come out with something new... but, they tail off badly after that.. What is going to make this car any different?

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

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  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    All good points, but the M literally has no choice but to do better than the previous model. I can't do any worse...lol!

     

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    "what really is going to make the new M35/45 sell any better than the last M? If I recall, that car had the horsepower and price advantage, also.."

     

    Do us all a favor and read something about the new M before saying its "same old". Then look at G35 sales and G20 sales. Its about the same with the new M vs. old in terms of changes that Infiniti has made.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    Gee.. I read a little bit.. haven't you noticed?

     

    1) The G35 had nothing to do with the G20, other than the letter "G". Not the same car in size, purpose, FWD vs. RWD, etc, etc... The G35 was basically an all new car, on an all new platform.. The G20 was a rebadged Nissan Sentra. The G20 was the entry level Infiniti, while the G35 was slotted in above the I35. Plus.. not sure what any of that has to do with the mid-sized luxury market, even if you could link those two models together..

     

    2) Other than AWD, the M35/45 isn't offering anything the admittedly bland old model didn't have. New styling, but about the same power and luxury appointments.. But, that isn't even my point.. The point is... At those price points, mid-size luxury buyers don't even have Infiniti on their radar... I'm sure they'll get a little buzz and start off fine, but give it a couple of years and sales will be right back down in Lexus GS territory.. Which, is where most of Infiniti's "M" buyers will come from..

     

    3) For more Infiniti success stories, perhaps we could discuss the Q45? Or the J30 (another mid-size debacle).

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

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  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    "Gee.. I read a little bit.. haven't you noticed?"

     

    Nope, as you seem to think the new M is the old car with a body lift. "The G35 was basically an all new car, on an all new platform." So is the M. The old car sat on the Q45s platform. The new M rides on a specially developed stretched and tweaked G35 FM platform. Rigidity is up in huge amounts over the G35, and by about 50,000% over the old M45. The old M never offered a V6, and it didnt have AWD. The transmission has been significantly revised, as evidenced by fastest in class acceleration. It handily whoops the 300hp Acura RL, and offers every luxury feature that the competition has, including a few that they dont. Who else has LDW and rear wheel steering?

     

    "For more Infiniti success stories, perhaps we could discuss the Q45? Or the J30 (another mid-size debacle)."

     

    Hey the J30, a car from 1992 or so. That sure is relevant to 2005 Infiniti, isnt it? For Infiniti success stories with Carlos Ghosn at the helm, how about taking a look at the G35 and FX. Infiniti is here to stay, and as of right now they are stomping on Acura and gunning for BMW.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Hey guys I draw the line at the Infiniti J30, my aunt loved that car! Get off it...lol!

     

    M
  • gabmangabman Member Posts: 284
    Interesting debate that you guys have going on here. As a current G35 and Acura TSX owner and a soon to be M35 Owner ( just awaiting a test drive), I will weigh in with following comments.

     

    Acura RL - Test drove it when it first came out,had a nice feel to it and lots of bells and whistles, everything was fine until I asked the price Cad $ 72,000.00, laughed at Sales Guy and told him to call me when they drop price by at least $10,000.00.

     

    Lexus GS 300 - Saw it at Auto Show, even though car is supposed to be at dealers in late February, Lexus saw fit to display this car at the show on a rotating round stage with a DO NOT Touch sign on it. Why even bother showing it if one could not properly check it out. From what I was able to see, not worth the CAD $ 68,000.00 that they are asking, perhaps if they would have seen fit to let us look and sit in it I may have a different opinion. Tough luck Lexus, I need to get a car now.

     

    Audi A6 - Test drove and obtained all pricing, really like this car however......

    Base price is CAD $59,500.00, added in exact options that are in the M35 as follows.

    Premium PKG - $4300.00

    (Sunroof, Bi-Xenon adaptive headlights,Bose,Wood)

    Convenience PKG - $ 1450.00

    (Driver info,seat memory,homelink,dimming mirror)

    Premium Leather $ 1500.00

    Rear parktronic $500.00

    Voice Recongnition $500.00

    Advance Key $1100.00

    Tire Pressure monitor $350.00

    18" mags/4 season tires $1400.00

    and now we are up to CAD $ 70,600.00

    80,000 KMS warranty instead of M35 100,000KMS

    Must state that AUDI includes ALL service/parts for duration of warranty whereas Infiniti does not.

     

    BMW 5 Series - Very nice car, spoke with a sales guy at the auto show, told him what I wanted ( actually what I would settle for given my budget)

    told me he would call me Monday morning, am still waiting for the call.

     

    M35 - has everything and more than I was looking for plus very good lease rates given very high residuals as this is a 2006 model.

     

    I could enter this debate over the pros and cons of German/Japanese but the bottom line is that I change my car every 3 years, I have loved driving my G35, Infiniti has been very good to me, reliability has been excellent an no other manufacturer can offer what Infiniti is offering in their new M35 for the same or even close numbers.

     

    Time will only tell if I made the right decision. Back in '91 I leased a first generation Q45 for 3 years, landed up keeping it for a 4th year because I liked it so much. I think Infiniti got it right with the G35 and everything else that is following it.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,498
    Helpful post, Gabman.

     

    Remember your early participation in the G boards a few years ago.

     

    Keep us posted as your "M" adventure continues.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    No one is saying that the M will sell better than the E or the 5. It'll probably sell about 2000 per month though

     

    As lexusguy said, the 2006 M is a totally different car from the 2004 M. About the only thing it carries over is the V8, and a tweaked one at that.

     

    By your reasoning, no non-established car can ever be successful in this segment. If you offer a compelling car at a good price, people will start noticing little by little. You build a reputation over time.

     

    As far as sales going down near the end of a model run, that is true with almost every car. However, when the G35 Sedan first came out, it sold about 3000 per month. Now, they're selling about 4200 per month.

     

    It's very interesting that the people most "concerned" about M sales seem to be the BMW crowd.
  • gbabalukgbabaluk Member Posts: 70
    Right On Gabman!

    I'd feel sorry for the Acura RL BUT the Canadian marketing people must have been smoking something the day they priced the new RL! This could be the Edsel for Canadian Acura delaers. Sell one or two and then stop selling them.

    I too own an early production G35(04/02 build date) and it's been bullet proof.

    Anyway, enough said about the RL. The M in either the 6 or 8 will be tough to beat.

    Have a great day Everyone;

    Babs
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    1) Having owned eight Honda/Acuras.. I doubt I can be called one of the BMW crowd.. even though my wife drives one... I'm not sure what you mean by "concerned"? Isn't this a forum to compare luxury sedans? Where should I post these comments, concerning my opinions?

     

    2) My reasoning isn't that there will never be a successful competitor in this segment... just that it is probably the toughest segment to crack..

     

    3) Okay, okay... I know the "M" is an entirely new car.. I got that.. I read.. really.

     

    4) The G35 is a big, big hit in the $30K-$38K range..... I don't disagree.. name another "succesful" car from Infiniti.. (Please don't say I35).

     

    5) Infiniti has a recognition problem... Many people have never heard of it... It might not seem that way on Edmunds, but to the average car buyer, they are a non-entity... I heard a big secret the other day.. People that spend $50K on a car... they care about the brand... even the biggest driving enthusiasts..

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

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  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    If they keep winning comparison tests and making the 10 best list, Infiniti will get noticed. I, for one, am now seeing almost as many FX45s on the road as Lexus RX, and quite a bit more of both than Acura MDX.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    1) Hm... for some reason I thought you only owned Bimmers. Sorry about that.

     

    2) Agreed. It is a tough segment to crack. No one is saying that the M will be sales leader. I'm thinking, if the RL with one $50k variant can sell 2000 per month, the M with 3 variants ranging from $40k to $55k can sell 2000 per month. Acura never had success in this segment either. There is more competition now, especially from the GS, but I think that the M is a compelling enough car to be successful.

     

    3) .

     

    4) The FX: It sells about 2800 per month, not bad for a non-conventional SUV. Again, "successful" does not mean breaking sales records or anything. The QX: It sells about 2000 per month. Not bad for a $50k vehicle. The G35 Coupe: It is the best selling luxury coupe in the U.S.

     

    5) Infiniti does have a recognition problem. But it's much better than say, 3 years ago. I think the M is good enough for people to take a look.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    I don't disagree with the quality of the cars (somewhat)..

     

    I see a lot of FX45s, too.. But, then again.. how can you miss them?

     

    I'll have to check, but I'm guessing they are far, far behind the sales of the RX..

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  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I would argue that the full size truck US market is a MUCH tougher nut to crack than any luxury class. The LS has already proven luxury doesnt necessarily belong to Europe and only Europe. The Tundra and Titan have made a good start, but they still dont even make a dent to big three truck sales.

     

    "I see a lot of FX45s, too.. But, then again.. how can you miss them? "

     

    I think thats exactly what Infiniti was going for. You cant miss a Cayenne on the road, and you cant miss an FX.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    At least not every Infiniti is a re-badge of a Nissan.. Designs that set themselves apart from the Nissans can only help...

     

    I don't think the RL will do much beyond this year and next... I think it will have the same problem that I propose for the "M".. Not enough status for 50 large...

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

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  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The RL just doesnt fit anywhere. Its too expensive for the V6 crowd, and its not fast enough for the V8 crowd. I agree though, by the end of '06, RL who?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    True.. Ford and Chevy truck buyers aren't going to buy a Toyota or Nissan truck..

     

    But, I think it was more to capture the import buyer that had no choice previously.. That is a big enough market right there, without trying to take away the traditional domestic truck buyer..

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    I have the day off today, can you tell?

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  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Hah. Yeah its a bit of a slow day for me as well.
  • gold233790gold233790 Member Posts: 183
    I waffle between the lease/buy decision every time I am looking for a new car. That decision, by itself, is probably the most important determining factor in the whole process- it essentially chooses the vehicle for me once I've narrowed the choices.

     

    In that respect, the price and reliability issues change dramatically based on lease/buy. In this market, there are MANY leasing customers trying to make that jump from the entry luxury up to the mainstream lux market.

     

    For example, BMW is overpriced IMO, compared to other similarly optioned vehicles in the segment- with relation to MSRP. However.....if you were to lease, BMW jumps out as one of the most affordable- if not THE most affordable- player in this market. Infiniti rarely offers leasing incentives, and neither does Acura. Audi has been known to introduce the occasional incentive, but they keep their residuals low for the most part. Right now, leasing an RL or A6 is going to run you $700+. Information I've received from my long time Infiniti dealer indicate we should expect similar numbers for a 49k M.

     

    Now.....talk purchase and you've got a different story. Audi and BMW are reliability issues (at least compared to the Japanese), BMW is higher priced than all but Mercedes. Acura, Infiniti, and Audi are all about the same price point for similar cars- you can do 4.2 Audi or M45 Infiniti, but the power plant is then much different from the RL. I don't know enough about the new GS, but I think we can safely assume quality to be excellent. No idea on driving characteristics, as I've never driven the outgoing model.

     

    Simply put, when I buy I will buy Japanese. When I lease, I'll lease the best car for the best value. In my current situation, it's a 530. Over $150 difference per month than Acura or A6.
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    New M will be totally different from old M in the marketplace.

     

    When G35 came out, people were saying, no matter how good it was, it'd have terrible residuals, because that was what all Infinitis had. I think Kelly Blue now has G35 as having top residuals in its class.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    I agree about the G35.. but, I think the $30K-$36K market is a lot different from the $45K-$55K market...

     

    Also, many more leasers in the $400-$600 range, than in the $700-$800 range.. Mostly buyers when you get up that high...

     

    We'll see, I guess..

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  • cruller001cruller001 Member Posts: 12
    I beg to differ folks, I don't think Infiniti has a recognition problem. In what sense?, maybe I don't get the context. But compared to the new M, the old M45 design looked dated and mundane when it hit the streets, and despite strong performance and price discounts and all, it was a yawner, folks looked at it and passed.

     

    By contrast the G35 is a runaway success. Infiniti had been around years before the G35 hit the streets and it's sales figures do not point to a recognition problem. Will the new M35/45 be able to duplicate the G35?, I guess it remains to be seen. However if it offers styling as it appears to, performance(ditto) and value, who knows. If it fails, it definitely would not be because of recognition. The Jaguar S is one of the most recognized vehicles, classic retro looks and all and it sales numbers suck. What gives?.

    It aint recognition folks.
  • gabmangabman Member Posts: 284
    Gold 233790,

     

    Further to my post earlier this morning, the BMW sales guy finally called me back ( Maybe he reads

    Edmunds, lol). Interestingly enough he quoted me a price on a 530 that is still slightly higher than the M35 however the 530 did not have half of the equipment that the M35 has including all wheel drive.

     

    Are you sure that you are comparing comparably equipped cars?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    The RL just doesnt fit anywhere. Its too expensive for the V6 crowd, and its not fast enough for the V8 crowd. I agree though, by the end of '06, RL who?

     

    by that reasoning, the same goes for a comparably equipped M35.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • fraincfrainc Member Posts: 11
    How did the M35 handily whoops the RL in the Motor Trend review. The M35 was .4ths faster in the 0-60, and slower in the slalom and skidpad vs. the RL. Plus I would like to see them test a M35 AWD against the RL and then see some more times. I don't call this handily whoops. And don't compare the M45 either.
  • chris65amgchris65amg Member Posts: 372
    The mid-size performance sedan market is shaping up like this to me:

     

    '06 Infiniti M

    How can Infiniti just plunge into this market? A lot of people who are shopping for this type of car already have their list narrowed a bit, and newcomers aren't very well recieved. Look at the new RL. In defense, it looks solid enough, but the RL and GS have not been well-recieved. As I will repeat later, there are certain companies that will just do better. Don't ask how, they just do.

     

    Acura RL

    The RL is kind of sad, just because Honda is so stubborn. No V-8 at all. The v-6 has nice horsepower, but its torque is less-than-great. The styling is blah, another Acura trademark, and it has no option for RWD. I'm all for AWD, but, in my experience, there's something about RWD that is just as desirable. Add to that the fact that Acura doesn't advertise a lot, and that all of their other cars are FWD, they can't compete.

     

    Lexus GS

    A lot of people are saying that this will be a no-show, and I really can't agree. I know that when I heard that Caddy was redesigning the STS I thought that it would be another stodgy Seville. Wrong again, Chris. If Toyota provides the degree of engineering and tuning that it did with the Scion tC to the GS, (albeit on a higher level) it will be able to compete. Also, lots of people like hybrids, but don't want a hybrid that gets bad gas mileage (cough Accord cough), is alightly odd (Prius), seats two (insight), or is a Ford (Escape). They want their hybrid with a degree of finesse, and Lexus aims to give them that with the GS. I hope it works. Still, don't be expecting a 545 killer.

     

    E-Class

    I like this car, and I really don't know why. It's more expensive than the rest, and until recently, you were only getting 221 horses for 50k. Ouch. It's improving now that they will discontinue the E320 and replace it with the E350. But hey! It's a Benz, and you can bet that the three point star will net bunches of people.

     

    5 Series

    Other than its odd styling and iDrive, the bimmer is probably one of the better ideas. At least in 545 or 530. The 525 does seem a little overpriced, though.

     

    Caddy STS

    As much as everyone loves this car, I don't.

    (Hides under desk.)

    The thing that annoys me is the styling. I think it's better than the CTS, which one might get cut upon touching, but it looks too grandfathery. Also, it isn't German. Yes, I discriminate when it comes to cars. Sure, it might perform great, but it's still a GM. So much for my new years resolution of being more open-minded.

     

    Audi A6

    I'm one of the few who thinks that the A6's grilleowrk is nice. It seems to be a competant competitor now, but when it comes to cachet, you can't beat Benz. Also, the BMW is more sporty in demeanor.

     

    Well, I think I've vented my steam. I'm out.
  • jmatthejmatthe Member Posts: 51
    I'm glad you vented your steam, and mostly hot air it is. Have you driven at least 4 of these cars? First of all, the RL is at or near the top of many ratings, lists and features and price. Styling is subjective, so who really cares about it anyway. I like it personally, in silver. The E class has less performance, features, quality materials reliabilty and price. You have german mystique disease.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Here is another review of the M.

     

    http://www.mississauga.com/mi/insidenews/story/2515845p-2914914c.- html

     

    I'm quite intrigued by the active rear suspension.
  • docnukemdocnukem Member Posts: 485
    The only thing that caught my eye in that review was the AWD error. The M35x usually runs with 100% power to the rear wheels and can shift up to 50% to the front when needed (in infinitely variable steps).

     

    BTW, anybody hear anything about performance loss in the M35x with the extra weight compared to the base 35? How does the G35x compare to the G35 on dry pavement? Thanks.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The M is the car that doesnt have to make excuses for itself. Other than this, other than that, oh and other than this, the car is great. Sorry, but that doesnt sound like a great car. The M35\45 doesnt have the 5's pug-ugly styling, it doesnt have iDrive, it doesnt have Active Steering, it comes fully loaded for a heck of a lot less cash, and you know what, a NON sport equiped M ran with BMW's best, and matched it.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,498
    Your analysis reflects my own.

     

    I (so far) always buy cars. Leasing only makes sense if: 1) you can write off car expenses, 2) there's a terrific subsidy built in by the manufacturer (this happens, and needs to be considered, if available), or 3) you can't really afford the car and only want to rent it.

     

    That said, I continue to buy and hold. I value long-term reliability -- the vehicle should run well beyond 100K miles with little or no attention from the dealer (I do all my own oil/filter/brake stuff). I took a couple of forays into the American vehicle zone, but expect to go back to Asian at my next change.

     

    Live and learn. . .or not.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • gogglespiasanogogglespiasano Member Posts: 28
    Kyfdx,

     

    Infiniti does have a bit of a recognition problem and they have also had a product line up that has been confusing/disorganized.

     

    However, IMO this is changing. The success of the G35 is no accident. The car has great acceleration, brakes and handling (great road feel which the Japanese have struggled to achieve). The car also has good interior and trunk space. If the new M is as good on the road as it looks on paper/early road tests, it should do fine.

     

    The reason the Lexus GS (and IMO the RL to a lesser extent) are marginal entries in the sports/performance area is they do not have the acceleration, braking or interior space to really trump other cars in their class. The RL does have nice handling and some other luxury features, but it and the GS have too many compromises. The new GS could be different but we will see -- it looks like you have to buy the GS400 to really get a competitive performance car from Lexus.
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    Despite all of the rational views here about the luxocars, I believe the Infiniti M's main problem remains weird styling on the front, particularly the "fish pucker" grill. I think that it will remain a turn off for many buyers. I think that they will struggle to sell 2K / month, without big discounts after the hot rod crowd gets their fill. I also wonder if the reshaping of the grill on the G towards the M look will hurt its sales this year. We'll see.

     

    Besides the ugly rear, the BMW 5 front headlight treatment also yields what one of my friends call 'owl eyes' or the look of a Ninja battle mask. The 5 being weird front and rear takes alot away from a previously class leading car.

     

    I think the RL will do ok, but won't make much of a dent in the class. Compared to the M and 5, it's styling is at least integrated and clean and it's features outstanding. I feel it will be heavily discounted before the year's out to keep the installed base trading up.

     

    In talking to my sister, who has been an Acura owner for years, she said "I already know that I have a much better car than my friends Mercedes and BMW's. I just love picking them up for lunch when their cars are in the shop for a week."

     

    IMHO, in the end, the E3XX and BMW5 have left a 10K+ wide hole in the market between the high 30's and low 50's and it's getting wider. That's why the Asian car manufacturers are there.

     

    You have to be crazy to pay 50K and up for a rather mundane, troublesome taxi cab platform from Germany or something as ugly as a BMW.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    I think the M styling is fine. I can definitely see an overall resemblance to the Altima and G35, but it still looks better than all other cars in this class.

     

    The front end is the car's strong suit. The rear end, however, is kinda odd.

     

    People thought that G sales would die down after a couple years and the "hot rod" crowd had their fill. Well, what do you know, sales in 2004 were much stronger than in 2003. Frankly, I'm surprised by this too.

     

    One thing that impresses me about the M is that excepting the STS, it is the largest and roomiest car in this class. Yet it is also one of the sportiest as well, right behind the 5. Having both size/room and sport is a very hard thing to do, and it's something that even BMW hasn't able to do either. Other than the 7, Bimmers are almost always the smallest/least spacious cars in their segment.
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