Luxury Performance Sedans

sfcharlie · June 2006

erfan ... did you decide on a car yet?

sfcharlie · June 2006

Just left post 7604 and the flipped through July "Automobile" magazine. They compared BMW M5, Audi S6, and Mercedes E63 AMG. Ranked AMG first, S6 second, and M5 third.

"Unlike the BMW, which feels a little twitchy as it nears the limit of adhesion, the AMG hugs the tarmac." I had previously thought it impossible (as in against the laws of nature) for a n auto mag to say specifically that another car outperformed a comparable bimmer in that specific area of performance. The editors continued to list the ways in which they found the Mercedes better to drive than the bimmer: "There is also less lift-off weight transfer, less acceleration squat, and less brake dive, and, despite the subdued body movements, you always know where you are on the speed and g-force map." However, the AMG "surpasses the [Audi] S6 only by a whisker."

markcincinnati · June 2006

Leaving the BMW how many whiskers behind, I wonder?

jrock65 · June 2006

Only change I can see is a 10 way power passenger seat, and break up of the packages.

And they retested power ratings to conform to the new standard.

2007 M35 "lost" 5 hp (275 hp) and 2 torque (268 torque). 2007 M45 "lost" 10 hp (325 hp) and 4 torque (336 torque).

markcincinnati · June 2006

Obviously, those of us who buy Audis must suffer through the critiques (even from our wives) -- from what one would assume are badge effect customers.

I'll go out on a limb here then and say I do think badge effect is real. When the rubber hits the road, or the check hits the bank, however, I believe people would buy what they like.

I tend to think that in a universe of ONLY badge effect, people would STILL buy the car that they most liked based on styling. Of course, this would still probably be tempered by badge effect -- assuming price parity.

In other words, people would buy the car they liked the looks of within the badge. For some that would mean the "best looking" BMW (best looking to them, that is.)

For others, of course, it would be the best looking Cadillac.

Being in the US it is impossible for me, at least, to put Audi on the same tier as BMW and Mercedes. Likewise it is impossible for me to put Cadillac on any other tier than the lowest. Moreover, if that means putting Audi on tier two or tier three, Cadillac would have to be on tier three or tier four.

Likewise, Lexus and Infiniti (to me) have the same badge effect -- but (to me) Lexus just plain builds uninvolving cars in which to sit behind the wheel. So, for that and only that reason, the overall positive effect of the Lexus badge is largely neutralized. Ininiti would be my Japanese choice, that is.

Currently, for no other than things I cannot wipe out of my memory, Acura, despite its apparent stellar comeback, still has the hangover from the previous generation (to me) -- besides, Acura has simply not ever been able to command the badge effect that Lexus, for instance, has, so it is, for the time being relegated to Cadillac's status.

In the US then (personal choice for "badge"):

o BMW & Mercedes
o Infiniti & Lexus
o Audi
o - the rest

I have driven most of the cars here, some of them extensively. There are times when I would place the Germans all on the same tier from that perspective (driving, performance, etc.)

The Lexus and sadly the Jaguar would be on the same level as the Cadillac from that perspective and, oddly, that might make an STS/4 with all the toys preferable to the Lexus no matter what the badge effect.

Overall, the cars in this crowd are more alike (to me) than they are different, despite all the above. :shades:

rayainsw · June 2006

In my Zip code (NE of HotLanta) I can again 'build' an M45 Sport (almost) as I'd actually prefer to buy one - with ONLY OPTION = rosewood. "Almost", because I still cannot order XM without a Package . .
( sigh )
- Ray
Always shopping . .

dhamilton · June 2006

I just read a Jeremy Clarkson review of the new A8 and he hated it. Said it was creeky at low speeds, got bad gas mileage, and acceleration was slow, as was handling.
Very bizzare as he usually has nothing but praise for Audi.

dhanley · June 2006

I generally agree with the tiers people have posted. I would suggest that if you are a non-car enthusiast, jag ranks high. There is a perception of jags as something very special among the general population, who don't know the x-type is a pretty mondeo and the s-type shares many parts with the taurus.

Admittedly, i have toyed with the idea of picking up a CPO'd xj8 at some point. I do think it's a good car in objective terms, particularly for the money.

dave

cumptrnrd · June 2006

I'm getting ready to buy an STS V6 with the Luxury Performance package. Other cars I was considering were the E350, A6 3.2, and 530i (I'm not considering any Japanese offerings for personal reasons), and the Caddy was just the best deal considering price and options, especially the AWD. Also, I've read only good things about it. The TMV price is $3k cheaper than the discount my employer offers.

I just had a few questions before I went out price shopping:
1. Does anyone have any gripes at all about the car?
2. Does anyone out there think the AWD is worth it?
3. I think I read that the '07 would be coming with a 6-speed... Should I wait?
4. Does anyone know of any other major changes in the near future? I was thinking about a CTS, but not with a redesign planned for the '08...
5. Any other tips/comments

Thanks

rayainsw · June 2006

I would suggest that if you are a non-car enthusiast, jag ranks high. There is a perception of jags as something very special among the general population, who don't know the x-type is a pretty mondeo and the s-type shares many parts with the taurus.

I am aware that the Y2K Jag S-Type shared substantial platform configuration and motors trans with the Lincoln LS. The two diverged much further for the 2003 MY. If there are any Taurus parts (Id be very surprised) they are likely nothing that would significantly effect performance or occupant driving \ riding experience  and Id be very curious to see a source for that statement.

- Ray
Driver of 2000 & 2003 Lincoln LS  s . .

markcincinnati · June 2006

1. Does anyone have any gripes at all about the car?

Check the STS only board as a starting point. After extensive test drives of the car, I would certainly consider it at least for 50,000 miles. My only issue was that without the "sporting bits" it was numb -- and even with the magna ride was a little (very little) vague compared to a German car.

2. Does anyone out there think the AWD is worth it?

Oh for pity's sake, don't even get me started -- the only way to go with this car is with the AWD; and this AWD system has received praise from other than AWD fanatics like me. Really.

3. I think I read that the '07 would be coming with a 6-speed... Should I wait?

You can wait til the cows come home, the '07 will have the 5 speed unless you are willing to spring for the V8.

4. Does anyone know of any other major changes in the near future? I was thinking about a CTS, but not with a redesign planned for the '08...

What do you mean "near future" -- two years perhaps, but for '07 and '08, the only real change I can imagine is the offering of the 6speed in the V6 in time for the '08 model year. Note to self: the V6 would gain the most from the 6speed automatic who in the wide wide world of sports thought putting it first in the V8 was a brilliant idea?

5. Any other tips/comments

Negotiate, negotiate, dance to the music, negotiate!

Why?

Around here SRX's and STS's can be seen with $10,000 off sticker.

lexusguy · June 2006

If we had to pick (in attempt to predict what would make him/her happiest to have gotten that car after, say, first two years owning it and driving it everyday) a car for a mythical buyer (mid-40s, married, two kids who ride in the car regularly, likes driving and not just getting from point A to point , and we knew the person wouldn't drive all the ones we compare here, how much influence do you think "badge effect" would have on your recommendation and how what would your five top recommendations (brand and model) be in rank order?

When I made that list, I placed them in the order I felt the "average American" might see them, not necessarily how I see them. Personally, I agree with mark about where the Cadillac badge would be. I don't agree with him though that Lexus and Infiniti are on the same level. I don't think that the Infiniti name carries any more weight than the Acura name does, Infiniti needs to build a Q that somebody will actually buy first.

As for what I would recommend to somebody looking for a car in the LPS class who likes to drive, "badge effect" wouldn't really matter. I have to say the M, either in V8 RWD form, or M35x form if AWD is a must have feature. The M is what I would buy for myself.

I'm not sure that I can come up with four more choices. I'm not really a fan of the S-type, GS, RL, or E. I guess I would pick the A6 as my "second choice". I can definitely see how the 5 would be perfect for certain people, but not for me.

lexusguy · June 2006

I just read a Jeremy Clarkson review of the new A8 and he hated it. Said it was creeky at low speeds, got bad gas mileage, and acceleration was slow, as was handling.
Very bizzare as he usually has nothing but praise for Audi.

Since when? Clarkson usually hates Audis. He always bashes them for understeer, what he perceives as lifeless steering, and overly harsh rides. One of the only generally positive Audi reviews I've read of his recently is of the new Audi TT 2.0T, but only because its such an improvement over the last car, which he said was completely awful.

jrock65 · June 2006

rayainsw,

You could get XM as a dealer accessory ($278 MSRP, installation not included).

jrock65 · June 2006

The volume sellers will probably be:

2007 M35 RWD (Journey + Tech): $46,400
2007 M35 AWD (Tech): $48,150

What's interesting is that the price of AWD has dropped from $2500 in 2006 to $1750 in 2007.

pearl · June 2006

The most interesting thing to me re the 07 M is that apparently it is NOT getting the revised VQ engine that will show up in the new G. That engine is supposed to be 80% new and produce over 300hp. Looks like Nissan is going to keep the older version of the VQ in production for awhile longer yet to populate the M, Maxima, etc.

lexusguy · June 2006

The most interesting thing to me re the 07 M is that apparently it is NOT getting the revised VQ engine that will show up in the new G. That engine is supposed to be 80% new and produce over 300hp. Looks like Nissan is going to keep the older version of the VQ in production for awhile longer yet to populate the M, Maxima, etc.

It could be that they are waiting for the M's mid-cycle refresh to introduce the more powerful engine, or perhaps they want to squeeze more power out of the VK45 first, so that the two of them would not be so close, at least in horsepower.

cdnpinhead · June 2006

. . .or it could be that they don't want to put a relatively untried/unproven power plant in their premier vehicles. . . yet.

The present VQ engine is a known (thirsty but stone reliable) quantity. The new one is not.

lexusguy · June 2006

. . .or it could be that they don't want to put a relatively untried/unproven power plant in their premier vehicles. . . yet

That doesn't seem likely. Lexus is launching its brand new V8 in its most premier vehicle. I dont think the reason that Infiniti held back on giving the M the new engine for '07 is that they are worried its going to fall apart.

cumptrnrd · June 2006

Thanks for the advice. Does anybody have any dealership recommendations for the Chicagoland area (north suburbs)?

markcincinnati · June 2006

Costco.

sfcharlie · June 2006

I'm driving my new M35. Still have memories of other cars I test drove, especially Audi A6, which was other final contender.

What I'm aware of (using the three terms above, which trichotomy I read somewhere) is (1) steering -- maybe a tad too easy (like old power steering on some American cars, but not that easier) or, to put it another way, not as tight as the Audi or the BMW 325i was driving; and, in terms of feedback to driver, not as much sense of feeling the road with my hands through the steering wheel, as with the A6. (2) Roadholding (grip between tires and road when cornering) seems great. No drift or feeling I'm losing control, driving and corners and highway curves just as I did with BMW. (3) Handling -- M35 settles right into comfortable and steady cornering, but it's a bit as if I'm watching it happen (a bit magical) and not feeling myself making it happen.

Seem familiar to any other M35 drivers of those test-driving the different cars in the LPS category?

upuaut · June 2006

And he also liked the RS4 he tested on Top Gear,

Upe

lexusguy · June 2006

(1) steering -- maybe a tad too easy (like old power steering on some American cars, but not that easier) or, to put it another way, not as tight as the Audi or the BMW 325i was driving; and, in terms of feedback to driver, not as much sense of feeling the road with my hands through the steering wheel, as with the A6. (2) Roadholding (grip between tires and road when cornering) seems great. No drift or feeling I'm losing control, driving and corners and highway curves just as I did with BMW. (3) Handling -- M35 settles right into comfortable and steady cornering, but it's a bit as if I'm watching it happen (a bit magical) and not feeling myself making it happen.

I would probably agree that the M's steering is a little lighter than the Germans, but I don't think it gives away anything in terms of road feel to the Audi. Of course the BMW 5's (without AS) is the most telepathic of the bunch. The M is better than the GS300 and RL, and miles ahead of the GS430 in terms of road feel from the wheel.

Infiniti definitely has not cracked the magic BMW code yet, but considering the new M is 100,000% better than the old one, I don't think it will be long now. The new 5 is certainly not 100,000% better than the old one. I think that the '07 G35 is probably going to just slightly fall short of the 3 in terms of pure driving dynamics, but like the M, probably not enough to lose comparison tests to it. Should be very interesting.

lexusguy · June 2006

Yeah, I meant the Ax cars, not the ultra hp machines.

reality2 · June 2006

My experience is the same. I have had nine Audis with never a single issue. I have never been asked to participate in any surveys. From my perspective, none of these surveys match my ownership experience, so I do not go by them. I go by my own experience. As for not touching an Audi, Audi did score higher than BMW and MB in latest JD Power Initial Quality Survey, so don't be putting them down just to take a cheap shot as is the case with most of the posters here.

sfcharlie · June 2006

"Telepathic" ... yes, that captures what I was getting at ... no question, Nissan appears to be serious about achieving top honors in this category ... maybe the next iteration ... right now, I'd say BMW and Audi A6 are both more "telepathic" in steering through curves ... not a huge difference ... but enough to notice.

That might be me. Automobile Journalists Association of Canada holds an event in which the journalists drive all the cars and rate them.

For steering, among Luxury cars they rated

Audi A6 7.8
BMW 5 Series Touring 8.3
Infiniti M45 Sport 8.1
Lexus GS 7.5
Lincoln Zephyr 6.9
Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class 8.1
Mercedes-Benz R-Class 7.4

And for handling, they rated:

Audi A6 7.8
BMW 5 Series Touring 8.0
Infiniti M45 Sport 8.2
Lexus GS 7.8
Lincoln Zephyr 7.5
Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class 7.7
Mercedes-Benz R-Class 6.3

I never drove the Infiniti Sport models, but having driven the BMW 3-series (which rated 8.3 on steering and 8.9 on handling), having test-driven the Audi A6 in all configurations, and now driving the M35, I was surprised that the Audi was so far away from the Infiniti and BMW. Maybe Im viscerally remembering the S-Line which I drove last.

Also, not sure if BMW "Touring" and Infiniti M45 "Sport" is right two to compare or artificially inflates score of M, relative to BMW.

markcincinnati · June 2006

May I advise someone looking at these cars for the "P" factor in LPS, please test the A6 with the S-Line option. The effect is subtle, but real -- the car, despite its nose heaviness, seems to be more than a smidge more nimble, so outfitted.

I cannot say it will be more nimble than a rear wheel drive 5 series with the sport package --but it will impress you if you have driven the 530xi and M35X.

Let me put it this way, the A6 needs the sport option, at the very least it needs the uprated wheel and tire option.

Of course, the BMW 530xi sport package does nothing to change the suspension -- only the Audi actually offers a real sport option. And, it shows.

The Audi A6 quattro with S Line is perhaps one of the best kept secrets in the LPS crowd. Now, don't get me wrong, I understand and appreciate the the 5 series (when equipped with a stick shift AND the sport suspension) -- but the Audi A6 quattro SLine IS, almost literally, "on rails" and thus is unmatched especially once there is anything other than totally dry tarmac beneath your feet.

Of course if you live where the roads are never anything but dry and straight, you can settle for one of the lesser LPS cars.

Like the M35X which, at least, comes close.

Of course if you opt for the 530xi with the 18" wheels AND the stick shift, well -- its bye bye Audi (if you asked me, which you probably didn't.)

Since most of "us" go shiftless, going A6 is pretty much a no brainer, especially NOW -- "for the money."

I'm planning on driving a 530 xi stick shift soon (a long long test drive) -- I hope it doesn't make the next 20 months a drag.

Wouldn't have one without the stick as long as the A6 w/Sline is on the market.

Wouldn't get any one of these BUT the stick 5, if I could make the decision TODAY, though.

pearl · June 2006

Mark, I drove an A6 last weekend and also an RL, M35x, and GS. While all are excellent values and no one would go wrong buying any of them in my opinion, the one negative they all have in common is Road Noise! Drive an E350, 530 or GS and the difference is amazing! Speaking of which, I find it incredible that people spend thousands of dollars on stereo systems only to have them compete with road/tire noise. Frankly, this is a big deal to me, and I will not buy a car where road/wind/ambient noise seriously competes with my stereo. It is possible to buy quietness, handling and acceleration in one package.

rich545 · June 2006

Doesn't surprise me at all. I love my wife's A6, but the steering is much more disconnected than it was in my 545i eventhough the 5 had active steering. The steering in the A6 is loose which makes it feel like it doesn't handle as well as the 5 eventhough it probably is pretty close. I haven't driven an S Line, but I'd guess that would be better. It's funny that we're talking about this because just 2 days ago I was driving my wife's car and thinking that the steering felt way loose.

sfcharlie · June 2006

Well, this is fascinating (as such discussions are for those of us who are enthusiastic enough about cars to talk about them at length). Coming to test drives of 530, A6, E350, and M35 -- straight from two years in a 325i -- I was convinced that the A6 S-Line felt closer to the BMW 3-series than even the 530. Chalk it up to (a) variability between individual units of same model car; and/or (2) sub-cortical dysfunction in me; and/or (3) wide variation in goodness-of-fit between each driver-body and each vehicle-dynamics.

lexusguy · June 2006

This is a great video, especially for the diesel heads. Top Gear tests the 535d, and then races it against a 545i.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__HpspsvRVg&search=Top%20Gear%20BMW

hpowders · June 2006

I have driven the M45, GS 430 and 545(which I have) and I agree: the GS is lowest in handling, worst in steering feel- with the 545, the best in both and the M45 definitely behind the BMW, but not too far.
I would say the M45 has better brakes than the 545, however.

I found it interesting or should I say inept to test a BMW wagon against an M45 Sport sedan for handling and the BMW almost won anyway!

sfcharlie · June 2006

TOTAl QUALITY INDEX

The Total Quality Index score is calculated using multivariate statistical techniques that measure the correlations of all aspects of the vehicle ownership experience including product, reliability and dealership (independent variables) against multiple outcome measures (dependent variables) which include the following:
-Satisfaction with the complete ownership experience
-Perception of quality
-Owner reported delight
-Future purchase intent
-Emotional attachment to vehicle

The correlations derived from this complex procedure are transformed into a 1000 point scale to facilitate comparisons. The scores typically range from 750 to 900. Generally, scores over 800 are terrific, although in some segments a score in the low 800's is not very competitive.

Infiniti M35/M45 - 908
BMW 5-series - 904
Audi A6 - 893

sfcharlie · June 2006

pearl wrote "I drove an A6 last weekend and also an RL, M35x, and GS. While all are excellent values and no one would go wrong buying any of them in my opinion, the one negative they all have in common is Road Noise! Drive an E350, 530 or GS and the difference is amazing!"

Which ones put most and least noise into cabin?

CR had Audi and Merceedes excellent on noise. M35, good on noise rating.

Anyone know if any of the published comparison tests measure decibels in cabin while test-driving?

sfcharlie · June 2006

The Audi A6 quattro with S Line is perhaps one of the best kept secrets in the LPS crowd. Now, don't get me wrong, I understand and appreciate the the 5 series (when equipped with a stick shift AND the sport suspension) -- but the Audi A6 quattro SLine IS, almost literally, "on rails" and thus is unmatched especially once there is anything other than totally dry tarmac beneath your feet.

Mark ... having just finished two months of test-driving most of the cars covered in this forum (lexus, audi, mb, infiniti), I couldn't agree more. If I could llive several parallel lives and had to predict which, of the cars I drove, would create, for the most consecutive days, an extra ounce of energizing excitement when I was on my way out to drive it in the morning, it would definitely be the A6 S-line I drove. I can't actually give a totally convincing explanation to myself as to why, in the end, I chose the M35, fear some days it was getting caught up in excitement of new model and what Nissan appears to be trying to do (I can root for car companies, as if they were sports teams), and half-unconscious swaying by expectation that Japanese car would not trouble me (I hate hearing myself put it that way) despite two friends (who have owned a combined total of 5 Audi A6s over last decdae) repeating that none of the cars, especially the two 2005s have been back to dealer for no more than a couple minor fixes each.

pearl · June 2006

obviously, I did not have a dB meter with me, so my assessment is subjective (how loud did it seem?). From most road noise to least, they were RL (Hondas all seem to have this problem), M35X, A6 and GS. The GS was by far the quietest, but to me, was the least "fun" to drive. OEM tire selection clearly is an issue here too, but so is suspension tuning, bushings, etc. Again, all seemed to be excellent cars, but I think it is too bad that some manufacturers seem to make so little effort to deal with interior noise. Cranking up the radio volume to overcome the racket from the tires is unfortunate.

sfcharlie · June 2006

INTERIOR SOUND LEVELS (from Car and Driver)

M45
Idle: 45 dBA
Full-throttle acceleration: 75 dBA
70-mph cruising: 67 dBA

Audi A6 4.2
Idle: 43 dBA
Full-throttle acceleration: 72 dBA
70-mph: cruising 68 dBA

===================================================
ANOTHER SET OF NUMBERS FROM A CAR AND DRIVER COMPARISON TEST

M45 Sport
Idle: 50 dBA
Full-throttle acceleration: 74 dBA
70-mph cruising: 67 dBA
--------------------
Audi A6 4.2
Idle: 45 dBA
Full-throttle acceleration: 76 dBA
70-mph cruising: 68 dBA
------------------------
BMW 530
Idle: 45 dBA
Full-throttle acceleration: 74 dBA
70-mph cruising: 64 dBA
----------------------------------
Lexus GS 430
Idle: 38 dBA
Full-throttle acceleration: 69 dBA
70-mph cruising: 63 dBA

roadglide1 · June 2006

It is the sound proofing they put in the wheel wells that rids the vehicle of excessive road noise, I drove the RL with the radio on to allow the noise canceling system to work and the vehicle was just as quite, they use this new system to get rid of the excess weight, also the others cars don't have the saftey cage the Acura hase which contributes to the solid feel of the vehicle.

lansdownemike · June 2006

Look on Edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=115914) and also on the Infiniti site. Bottom line, not much change, still a 5 speed automatic and AWD only on the M35. Limited options in LPS if you want AWD and 8 cylinders.

purplem46 · June 2006

Maybe it's just me, but the louder at full throttle acceleration, the more I like it. Especially if the loud sound has the proper tone. VRrrooooommm.....

james27 · June 2006

While a weighted sound pressure measurement does account for the frequency, it is not a lnear effect nor is it affect how one perceives the sound (there are at least a few scales, A and B are two). In other words, two cars could have identical measured sound pressure levels, but one could sound "good" and the other could sound "bad". The definition of good and bad is up to the listener.

lexusguy · June 2006

Bottom line, not much change, still a 5 speed automatic and AWD only on the M35. Limited options in LPS if you want AWD and 8 cylinders.

No one expects major changes when a car has only been around for a year. I dont think Nissan has a 6-speed auto, but I'd rather have their rev-matching 5-speed tiptronic than many of the 6-speeds out there. Infiniti originally said there wasnt enough space for the V8 and the AWD gear, so I wouldn't expect an M45x any time soon.

aflc · June 2006

I've been seeing a lot of Q7 commercials lately. The most I have ever seen for an Audi in the past few years. It's on almost every channel and I see a few every night. Before you would be lucky to see one on anything besides the history channel, and those were pretty limited too. I wonder if they need the extra boost with gas prices out of control.

I wish the people in the marketing group would have thought about spending a little money and had given the A6 a little more air time when it first came out. I don't think anyone knew that a new A6 model was even out there.

markcincinnati · June 2006

Amen to that.

hnlaj · June 2006

Audi has improve their quality alot since the 80s, my 2k A6 is like day and night compare to 5000CS (1987) and 90CS (1991). Its been trouble free. On the other hand, our 1998 Lexus GS400 has as trouble free as our 1990 LS400. Maybe its the first year in that second gen, but Toyota/Lexus dont make cars the way they used to with the Cressidas (1986 and 1989). Still, looking in to GS430/460 or the IS350, hoping they improve since the GS. :surprise:

stickguy · June 2006

Did some test sitting yesterday. Looked at the RL, M35, GS300 and Caddy STS.

Without driving them (but having read numerous reviews and road tests), I would pick the M35 hands down. Nicely loaded, great seats, roomy, looks sharp, and supposed to be the "sportiest" to drive.

The Caddy was quite large, but the seats were too confining, and the interior just didn't work for me. Should be a bit cheaper though.

The RL seemed overpriced. Maybe because the interior looked and felt too much like my Accord. Just didn't seem like a 50K car, but there certainly were a lot of gadgets.

THe GS looks nice, and has a stylish interior, but I was way short of headroom. THe back seat I expected (it was marginal at best), but my head was up against the roof in the front too. I had to recline the seat way more than I wanted to just to fit, and even then it wasn't comfortable. Just seemed like it was designed for buyers no more than 5' 8"!

One problem with all these seems to be the trunk. I couldn't figure out how to open the trunk on the STS, but the other three (particularly the GS) didn't seem that big, and since the rear seats don't fold down, you are a bit limited if yo ucarry a lot of junk, such as on a vacation to the beach. The M's trunk did seem to be the boxiest.

lexusguy · June 2006

Without driving them (but having read numerous reviews and road tests), I would pick the M35 hands down. Nicely loaded, great seats, roomy, looks sharp, and supposed to be the "sportiest" to drive.

The M is definitely my favorite of the bunch. That said, you definitely won't have to pay $50K for the RL. The dealers are giving them away at maybe $44K, just to get them off of the lot. Even still, the M is so much better, it's worth the extra money.

sfcharlie · June 2006

M35 is supposed to be the "sportiest" to drive.

Yes, it is supposed to be.

markcincinnati · June 2006

I have driven the Audi, BMW Mercedes, Infinity and Cadillac models that are considered to be in the LPS class.

These cars have many similarities, indeed depending upon their equipment levels even the Cadillac STS can be made to "feel" more competent than the BMW. The pecking order can be altered that is.

Price is an important factor when the cars are as close as these cars are to each other, especially at 9/10ths and under. The RL at $10,000 "lower" than the BMW or Audi, for instance, might be a better choice.

The M35X with its excellent suspension and 18" wheels and sticky tires (but all seasons, typically) is near the top of this class.

But a test drive will refine the word supposed to be the sportiest to drive.

Again depending upon equipment levels, the STS may totally take you by surprise, especially if it is equipped with the sport bits and magna ride.

Likewise the BMW at its base level and skinny 17" all seasons with an automatic is underwhelming.

The BMW with a 6speed manual and a couple of option boxes checked remains, IMHO, undefeated. Follow that selection with the 6spd auto-only equipped A6 SLine, then the M nipping at both of their wheels, so to speak, brings up third.

Argue, contradict and gimmie an "OH YEA?!?" -- after you have driven the Bimmer 530xi with a stick shift and 18" wheels and tires, the Sline A6 with the 19" wheels and tires (or even the 18's if that is all you can find to test) and the M35X with journey and technology packages.

Take them on the exact same test loop, take them each at least two times in a row on this loop, take them back to back if logistics permit a same day test.

If you then find the M is your "hands down" pick -- welcome to the club.

My guess is you'll pick the one that you like the looks of the most that has a price that is within your threshold of pain. :surprise:

That is, you will be in a very rare club if you actually do buy the car that performs the best -- by what are often considered "performance" criteria by the folks who do this for a living at Automobile, Car and Driver and Road and Track, etc etc etc.

Listen, I have the Audi, "I shoulda got a BMW!" My only excuse was there was no stick shift AWD BMW in June 2005, so I went with the less expensive M35X until Audi made me a "deal I couldn't refuse" on the number 2 performer.

Of course most all of this is really subjective, no kidding.

Luxury Performance Sedans

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles