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Comments
In terms of creamy isolation from the outside world, the ES does it better than any other car under $65K. If by Infiniti you mean the G or M, I wouldn't bother. They are about as far on the other end of the spectrum as you can get from the ES; raw, mean sports sedans. My suggestions for other cars to consider would be the GS350 AWD, and Volvo S80 3.2. The Toyota Avalon also has most of what the above cars have, for a lot less money. The Passat is also worth trying.
I had the following (not a complete list):
1995 S6
1997 A8
1999 A6 2.8
2000 A6 4.2 comfort
2001 A6 4.2 sport
2003 allroad 2.7T
2005 A6 3.2 with 18" wheels and 245 x 40 x 18" tires
At the same time, my wife had multiple A4's, three TT's and one BMW X3 3.0.
The A6 is the quietest of the bunch (including the A8), it also is both more compliant and able to corner better than the 2001 sport version of my A6, which I assumed is due to the its greater, by far, chassis stiffness.
I tested, thoroughly, the Infiniti M35X and the Cadillac STS and have rented, repeatedly, competing lux and/or sport lux cars from Europe and the US. I rented, too, a Lexus and participated in a test with Car and Driver that included the new Lexus cars.
Lexus cars are the most quiet. Audis and Cadillacs are second and the Infiniti is third. The BMW's I have tested and or have in my garage at this moment are hardly loud, but they are the loudest of the bunch -- due perhaps to the choice of tires they come with.
Perhaps you drove a new C6 Audi with 19" wheels and tires and the S-Line package. This version can be noisier and I assume it is entirely a function of the wheels and ultra low profile tires (with extra stiff sidewalls.)
The ride of the Audi IS firm, but it is also shudder free and able to telegraph the road to the driver.
The Lexus seems to me to be as comfortable and quiet as the Cadillac DTS, and able to handle better -- but the Cadillac on a smooth road at 80MPH remains like riding on your living room Barcolounger -- and even the Lexus doesn't do that.
Thank god.
I urge you to test Audi A6 again -- unless for other reasons you have totally ruled it out -- and other than this suggestion: ask them to make sure the tires are properly inflated -- well, it should be quite smooth,compliant and quiet. Moreover, it should handle very well, certainly better than the Lexus and Cadillac models it competes with.
Wow. :surprise:
Great point. First time I test drove the 07 A6 I thought it would knock my teeth out. Asked the dealer when I got back if the car really was that stiff. He apologized and said the cars come off the truck with 50psi and he had forgotten to adjust. Since then, I always ask if the inflation has been checked...it usually has not or they are left at 45psi so the tires don't get "flat spots" sitting on the lot.
I'm still hoping that Audi comes out with a lease program for the A6 so that it is not more costly then the 530xi. If they wait much longer, I will have to wait for the 535x.
Good Luck,
J
Didn't realize that the Infinity's ride was harsher..may still worth looking it. Bottom line, these are all good, capable cars, and it all comes down to subjective preferences.
BTW ordered the 18" wheels with all seasons. Are they UHP?
I enjoy your posts and find them most informative.
Keep it up!
J
You will be underwhelmed by them.
I replaced mine with UHP Pirelli PZero Nero M+S and inflated the front to 39 the rear to 36.
Nice upgrade.
If you are focused on bang for the buck, no one can touch this car. There are no options. None. Every feature is standard--an exemplar for the nickel-and-diming competition. (Are you listening, Toyota and BMW?)
Check out the review at cnet.com for more.
Well, except for the Technology package. Thats an option. And it would be nice if there were some options, say a seat upgrade, for example. An '05 or '06 for $32-35K is a pretty good deal. As a new car... eh. I'd rather have the GS.
J
Very good question. The MXM4s aren't really any cheaper than either the Pilot Exalto or Pilot Sport M+S, which are both way better tires.
I think if you can get an new RL under 45K it is an amazing vehicle. Head north of 45K and I think there are serious alternatives which appeal to us each differently. We all have attributes that appeal to us in different combinations...price, ride, performace, engine, drivetrain, features, reputation, etc, etc. It can be tiresome, especially with the availability of information and opinions we have today. It can be helpful, but it can also be distracting us from what pleases us personally. Listen to opinions in your decision process, but decide based on what appeals to YOU.
I enjoy the process, and cannot get near shiny metal things without drooling. A whiff of the new car smell and my knees buckle. BUT, always it comes down to MY dollar and deciding upon what MY dollar can get for what appeals to ME.
Somewhere I saw a thread about what people name their cars... I simply replied "MINE"! :P
I respect all the rides mentioned throughout this thread. i respect what each has proclaimed as best (for them), but each time I look at, drive one or campare to what I got in my RL, I know I made the right choice.
My dealer "found" the bulletin for the A6 owner loyalty program and said the .00027 MF would be no problem. So, applied the $2500 OL as cap reduction, added Audi Care to up the residual,(which was new information to my salesman) ...paid the tax and first month and I get my new A6 tomorrow. Oh, and they "tossed in" winter mats.
It probably would not have happened without your posting the program information. Again, my thanks for sharing the information. I hope I can return, or pass on the favor in the future.
N
The dealership, owned by ONE GUY, was sold to a billion dollar company several years ago. The dealership built a new 7 million dollar dealership. They sell about 600 new Audis per year -- but they are growing, apparently, with their new location and super high glitz facility.
Good for them, good for the customers -- or so I thought.
For the first 25 or 26 Audis we always dealt directly with the owner, who was always there.
Came to the current two car purchases we made in March and June of 2005 and boy oh boy things sure had changed.
I ended up kissing Audi good-bye and placed an order for an Infiniti M35X. My wife after 3 TT's in a row and a desire to buy a new A4 3.2, also gave up and ordered a new $47K BMW X3 that was "hundreds" cheaper per month on a lease for 36 month than a $44K A4.
The Infiniti deal for me was nearly $200 less per month than the "similar" A6 3.2.
I so wanted the Audi, but, as I have said, these cars are more alike than they are different and the mo pay and "styling" are key differentiators. I guess if I thought the Infiniti was butt ugly or something like that I couldn't have made the decision I initially made.
What the heck, I had purchased so many cars from ONE GUY, I wrote him a "thanks for the memories" letter, cc'd the sales manager (no longer the owner, who is never there, apparently) and also cc'd the Vice president of Audi of America.
Note: when you order an Infiniti it takes about 120 days -- orders are only placed one time per month (in 2005 at least) and the lead time is a minimum of 90+ days after that.
I sent the letters I mentioned.
I figured I would be happy with the Infiniti, I had driven the car several times and found it to be quite close to the feel I had enjoyed from Audi and had felt when I tested BMW's. About 75 days passed and then, one day, I received a phone call from the sales rep, who said, "come home Shane, come home."
The net of it was there were "loyalty deals, special cents off coupons and lower money factors and even the cancelling of a couple of months of a lease on my not yet at term 2003 allroad, the negating of a sec dep and free bottled water and car washes for life."
All I had to do was "unhook" the M35X deal -- the Infiniti dealers had $1500 of my money.
A phone call to the Infiniti dealer was soooo easy. He was looking for inbound inventory. My car, apparently on a boat, was able to be sold either to me or to someone else despite my somewhat unorthodox color scheme, silver with bourbon leather and journey and technology package with ground effects and a wing on the butt.
My wife said the deal Audi coughed up was a ONCE in a lifetime deal for they literally dropped the price on a 36 mo lease $200 per month and let me out of my lease on the allroad without penalty.
I hope she is wrong.
I also somewhat hate the fact that I had to say good-bye to get the deal. Of course, as they say, "if you are willing to walk and they know it, you will get the best deal du jour."
After years of dealing directly with the owner, I had come to enjoy a no negotiation approach and a sense that I always got the best deal in exchange for my repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat patronage.
Hey, now I'm dealing with a billion dollar dealership group. I met the owner once, I am confident he knows me not and in fact he's never there, so it's really a moot point anyway.
Today, I am mostly convinced these cars ARE NOT unique (within their class). The Lexus is at one, Infiniti and perhaps Cadillac are in the middle and the Germans are at the other end of a continuum of plush/poshness and sportiness. They are all great apples, so to speak, but they are different kind of apples -- but apples nevertheless.
Some like red deeeeelish, some granny smith and some gala.
The car companies must know this too, for there certainly can be a great deal of movement with respect to the "rental" agreements offered by the various financing arms. Audi Financial, apparently, made this happen as did BMW financial for my wife with her new Bimmer.
Fear not -- and also don't assume the dealer knows everything or is somehow attempting to be a crook. While they certainly might be, it is more likely that these multi multi million dollar (or billion dollar, in my case) auto dealerships you are dealing with are being run by professional "managers."
Rarely, at least in these parts, will you deal with someone in an equity position. The guy who didn't know about the "deal" quite possibly didn't know about the deal -- why? It really makes little difference to him/her.
My long term sales rep says he makes about the same amount on an A3 as he does on an A8 -- his motivation therefore is, well -- you figure it out. :surprise:
I'm delighted that I was of help to you. The very best of luck with the new car. Please advise how you like it.
With all the luxury AWD cars available this was the toughest auto decision I ever had. Initially, I was sure I'd get my 3rd Audi until I heard the monthly price. Then I was convinced I'd get the M35X until I drove the GS350 which is fast but numb. Was finally about to lease the M on Friday when I heard about the owner loyalty on Thursday. Everything is timing! My current lease doesn't end until March so I'll be counting the days until I get mine although I love my 2.7T and am not in a hurry to say goodbye yet. Enjoy the new car!
J
I recently bought a 2006 A6. Everything about this car is just the way I would have imagined except the brakes. When applying the parking brakes I can hear a distinct hum from the rear end of the car. I have driven a couple of loaners and they dint sound anything when applying the parking brake. The service agent says this is normal for the A6's. Secondly when I apply brakes, the car smoothly decelerates and then stops abruptly(I want to say with a jerk). Again the dealer says this is what happens with the brake assist feature when it chips in to anticipate any corrective braking that might be required.
Am I being paranoid or is the Audi dealer just giving me some stock answers to problems they cant fix?
Rocky
With the "jerky" braking, it's probably either the Electronic Brake force Distribution (EBD) or the transmission downshifting into first gear. It's probably the downshift. I believe I've read from other A6 owners that their cars sometimes jerk when downshifting. Pay attention to the brake pedal the next time you're coming to a stop. If you feel a slight pulse up on the pedal, it's the EBD kicking in. What that does is send a little more braking force to the rear brakes. It only kicks in for panic stops and below a certain speed. For nearly all cars (except BMWs) 85+% of the braking is done by the front brakes. This is why the front brake systems are larger than the rear and also why the front brakes have more brake dust and wear out sooner than the rears.
Why not BMW's, are they exempt from the rules of physics?
The other jerking you feel is NOT normal and is no way associated with Brake Assist.
The answer is lazy.
The culprit COULD be the transmission especially if you are in S mode which forces a HARD shift to first gear.
There are adjustments and parts that can be made and replaced if this is a true out of spec condition, which I think it sounds like.
Don't take the lazy answer.
My brakes are great.
Why not BMW's, are they exempt from the rules of physics?
It could have to do with "anti-dive" suspension geometry. My car has it, and BMW's may also. If the rear of the car doesn't lift & transfer a huge proportion of the downward force (weight) of the car to the front wheels during braking, the rears take a more nearly equal fraction. When I hit my brakes really hard, the car just squats down, applying plenty of weight to the rear.
Look around -- many cars that have ventilated front discs (most/all in this board) may or may not have ventilated rears. Cars with a sufficiently sophisticated suspension will have 4 ventilated discs. For all I know, all these do, but I doubt it. The Germans almost certainly do, given that they're designed to run at 100 mph or so continuously. The Asians will be efficient -- if they don't need ventilated rears, they won't fit them.
Rocky
Having driven the servotronic on a VW/Audi vehicle and Active Steering from BMW, I can say I prefer the Active Steering.
The VW/Audi setup is very nice, but in MY case, I just don't feel the road very well. It responds immediately and has a good feel/connection to the wheels at all speeds and it IS effortless, but transmitting the feel back to the driver just isn't there FOR ME.
The Active Steering lets the road feel through to me. Maybe it is the tire choice, but the A/S feels right. The ratio change has never been an issue and it responds just as fast or faster than the Servo in the VW/Audis.
I'm wondering if VW/Audi's audience is more for L and S vs the P. I wouldn't go so far to say it has a Lexus like ride to it, but it is defintely more 'posh' than the A/S equipped BMW's. The BMW's seem to focus on the P and S vs the L.
I'd take either one in a heartbeat as they are better (again, TO ME) than a large percentage of the cars out there today.
-Paul
It is a $250 option on the X3...
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I really like the feel on the A/S setup, at any speed.
-Paul
They aren't exempt. Cdnpinhead said it correctly. Ever notice how BMWs just squat when the brakes are applied whereas almost all other cars want to plant their noses in the asphalt? BMWs have 50/50 or near 50/50 weight distribution along with the anti-dive suspension setup that allows them to use equal brake proportioning front to rear. Most other cars whether they be FWD, AWD, or RWD have most of their weight on the nose which makes the nosedive even more pronounced which requires more braking force in the front since that's where most of the traction has been shifted during braking.
I assure you, the laws of physics are in full effect on BMWs as well. They just do a better job of working with them and not against them.
And what do I see as soon as I send it out. Their mea culpa... and a new plan to get the word out, finally...
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070116/UPDATE/701160427
My Lincoln LS gets less than zero respect from the masses, but the suspension was very well thought out. Selling (or leasing) the damn thing to the blue-haired masses turned out to be a losing proposition, particularly when Ford was in the process of self-destruction (helped along by the Exploder tires).
Thanks for verifying what I thought was true. This sort of thing costs money, which is part of why BMW is generally more expensive than Infiniti (& others). Whether anyone appreciates it, or is willing to pay for it is an entirely different question.
Enjoy.
Allroad is gone a few months now and Im about to take delivery in a few weeks down in Spartenburg a 530i I ordered with MT, comfort seats, premium, etc. Monaco blue with Auburn interior!
MSRP is 55k and with nothing but first payment and some BS fees my 36mo with 15k miles is only $630 per mo. with Taxes.
I never even test drove it. Ok, I drove a friends a few months back. My Audi dealer changed owners and have really become a joke. I never even gave them a chance as they never even made any effort to keep me. No incentives, no invitations, no call from dealer, no effort at all. They treated me not like an existing customer. I really did not care as the one prerequisite must be made for me. That is I don't want to feel stupid. And paying over $100 more per month for an Audi that Stickers for 7 grand less with putting $2500 down really does not make me feel any better about the deal. The other thing is I gotta like the car.
The Audi A6 is a great car and very special. As is the 530i BMW. The lack of MT was huge, but I could have overcome this with the right deal.
I had a great Audi experience and hope to get back into one some day. The Q7 deal was tempting but its just not the right vehicle for me. The X3 was very tempting as well and a hell of a deal. I really would like to put my wife in one in a few years when our Minivan days are over.
Mark, I have enjoyed your posts over the years and Im sure I'll come across you some other time.
Here is what I found:
At MSRP, the BMW was more expensive by many thousands of dollars when the BMW was optioned as close as possible to Audi's A6 with virtually every option.
The lease payment, however, was somewhat less than the Audi.
At MSRP parity, the BMW was about $200 per month less than the Audi (again NOT for a car that I wanted, since I did want the AWD version that had the 255HP engine but was not for sale when I pulled the trigger for the Audi, after unhooking the Infiniti.)
The point is, Audi AT THAT MOMENT, did come down in lease price to the point that it was just under the Infiniti M35X's price on a similar deal on a similarly equipped car.
My wife had, at that time, been into her new BMW just a couple of months and the dealer service at our local BMW store was outstanding. I didn't want, THEN, a 330xi -- now, hmmm a 335xi could turn my head -- but we'll see.
The Spartenburg experience (where we took our two day driving school in Sept '06) is delightful, educational and in our case just plain fun.
Now that BMW has caught up (in many ways) to Audi -- in the areas that are important to me -- once again, I will shop when my time is near.
I plan also to look at what Cadillac has to offer -- say it ain't so! :surprise:
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AWD will be available on the 300hp version of the CTS. As for the V version, probably not.
A Lexus GS is safe to buy I'm sure. Lexus makes no real effort to get you to lease, so I don't see why buying would be a problem, especially since Lexus cars tend to not change very much during their life cycles. The Infiniti M is probably a safe bet as well. The Acura RL on the other hand hasn't done any better than the A6 or 5 series in terms of reliability.
Audi puts their MMI controller right next to the cup holders. You may say, so? Spill a $1.00 coke on the center console and see what happens to MMI over time. From the modules I have seen, it doesn't take much moisture/syrup/junk to get in there to foul things up. Perhaps finding ways to modify or seal their electronics from the elements, including user-induced soakings, would alleviate problems.
-Paul
Hey Warthog, if you live in the snowbelt or some other area with a lot of sand/grit/dirt on the road that is the cause. The front tires kick up the dirt, it coats the rear discs and causes fast wear on the rear pads. this is the one advantage of rear drums (other than being cheaper to make) they are a closed design, keeping dirt out.