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Has Honda's run - run out?

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Comments

  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Both the Honda and Acura nameplates had a slow December, but sales for the year are up vs. 2004. Honda is up 5.1% and Acura is up 5.7% for a combined 5.2% gain over 2004.

    Without the Ridgeline's 42K units, sales would have been up only 1.8% (not taking in account selling days). The market typically grows about 2-3% each year. So, without the Ridgeline, this would not have been a good year. Honda/Acura would have been treading water at best.

    http://hondanews.com/CatID1000?mid=2006010454040&mime=asc
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's remarkable that they can keep it around with such low volume.

    Perhaps they do more for the PR value of having the most fuel efficient vehicle.

    -juice
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I believe that is exactly why they keep it around. Someone asked a Honda PR guy about it and PR appeal was his answer.

    Personally, I wish they would use it as a platform for launching the newest engine technologies. Give it a new engine every 3 years. Save costs by never upgrading the rest of it.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    "The market typically grows about 2-3% each year."

    This hasn't been a typical year though, has it? (I know the last half wasn't... I don't know about the rest of it.) Anyway, it's clear they're not on fire. The good news is that next year will be the new Civic and facelifted Accord's first full year, and we can expect a new CR-V soon. They're really taking too long to bring over a smaller car too.

    Atexeira, I think they keep the Insight around so it can top the EPA mileage list. I wonder if they assemble them by hand by now.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    and...I just took a quick glance at autosite, which hasn't updated for December, but has November up, and the Civic took A BIG jump up in sales that month. I suspect that is because of the intro of the next-gen car, and if they can maintain that pace for a while this ought to be the year of the Civic.

    The only stand-out in the compact segment the last couple of years has been the Mazda3, and IMO the new Civic is as much of a stand-out as the 3 has been up until now. Difference is, Honda has the ability to pop out 300K+ Civics per year if the market asks for them.

    As for the Fit, it will be here before you know it! :-)

    I think it will be my next purchase, so I am waiting anxiously for more solid information. The option is a Yaris, but I would prefer a 5-door. Not to mention, Toyota is playing the usual game for its lower-end models of everything but the steering wheel (and, laudably, A/C) is optional. Honda will probably flip this I think, with all the safety equipment and a CD standard, but no A/C on the base trim Fit. If Civic's example is anything to judge by...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    I thought the Fit would be here two years ago!

    Surprised to hear you're thinking about one. Isn't it a little slow, given what you've owned? I thought you'd be more of a Mazda3 kinda guy.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Well... I know our population is always growing. More people = more potential buyers. I don't know if an abnormally large number people held off on buying a car this year. That could reduce the market size even though the population grew.

    The big incentives push by Detroit may have skewed the market, as well.

    Looking at the chart, it was really the 4% drop in Accord sales that hurt Honda from a volume perspective. It pretty much negated the gains they made with the Pilot and ody. I think the facelift will help, but the Accord is also getting long in the tooth. And, of course, Toyota is launching a brand new Camry.

    The CR-V won't be replaced until late this year. And the new RAV4 will certainly steal sales over the next 10 months. So, I think the CR-V will be a boost in 2007, not 2006.

    The RDX will hep the Acura side of things, but it's not a high volume vehicle. Could do wonders for profits, though.

    I think next year's sales will be boosted most by the Civic and Fit (whenever that arrives). Recent months for the Ridgeline have been good. If that continues, it too will contribute to Honda's market share. But that's a big "if".
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I hope it does well. It's a segment that has never had any appeal in the US, no profits, either. But the newcomers look better and better.

    Fit does well in Brazil.

    -juice
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Wellllll, I have decided (at least temporarily) to put my money where my mouth is and make my next purchase a truly fuel-efficient one. OTOH, I don't want to spend the extra money on a hybrid, as with my driving style I will probably be able to pull mpgs out of a Yaris/Fit that most people get out of hybrids right now. Plus, I think both these cars are cute, better-looking than any of the hybrids and at least as good-looking as the Mazda3.

    I am hoping for a regular figure of around 40 mpg if I get one of these little suckers.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    This hasn't been a typical year though, has it? (I know the last half wasn't... I don't know about the rest of it.)

    You were correct. Just got through reading this article and found the following...

    "The total number of vehicles sold in the United States was nearly 17 million, about equal to the number sold the year before."

    So this year, I guess a gain is a gain and a loss is a loss.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    My marketing director's E320 CDI (now fully broken in) is giving her 30-32 mpg mixed and up to 38-40 highway. And it's damn near as quick as the old E420 gas.

    Just in case you find an extra $30k of nickels between the sofa cushions and don't want to drive a "little sucker". ;)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I like little suckers! :-P

    Can't buy a diesel in my state, so the Mercedes diesels are out of the question. That is too much car for my needs anyway.

    If I could get a diesel here, I MIGHT give a Golf diesel a try, just to see. I drove the old model Golf TDI, and liked it mostly. It was a short test drive though, would want to drive it more before I laid down any money.

    People in the future Fit thread are speculating that it might beat the Yaris by two or three points for mileage. 37/45 would be nice...

    Toyota has published a press release with its initial numbers, which in my experience have been dead on, and low if inaccurate at all, and they are saying 34/40 mpg for the 3-door manual shift Yaris hatch. Please, Honda match that with the Fit! In every other way, I am leaning slightly toward the Fit.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yaris still has that center mounted gauge pod, too bad they didn't get rid of it. It's also a bit heavier than the Echo was, so it's not as quick.

    Besides those two issues, it looks really good for its class.

    -juice
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    my main objection to Yaris is they give the sedan a much nicer dash, with a tach in the IP. They treat the hatch as the poor stepsister, just a speedo and a fuel gauge in a smaller pod, and an uglier dash. There is absolutely no reason for this, except they have decided the sedan is the "premium" Yaris, while the hatch is the cheapo. As for the center mount gauges, I can deal.

    I am hoping the Fit will have a standard tach on all trims, being a Honda. I am also crossing my fingers that even the lower trim line will have standard A/C, but knowing Honda I suspect it will not.

    If these cars get too expensive with the right mix of options, I might move over to an Impreza 2.5i with the subsidized lease. The fuel economy is not there, but it is a nicer car with AWD instead of FWD. Honda has to remember that having to spend $15K on the upper trim Fit just to get A/C is going to be unpopular in an expanding segment of the market where there are a number of good choices available to buyers.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Makes sense to me. Not much value if there isn't enough content in the base models. They'll nickel-and-dime you right into the price of a Civic.

    -juice
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    and in less expensive models where cutting price down is a priority, I like Toyota's approach better of making the A/C standard, with extra safety equipment and a CD optional, as opposed to Honda which makes the safety equipment standard, but the WHOLE RADIO and A/C optional. Not to mention the price of Toyota's package to add the CD is cheaper than at Honda, where you have to go up a whole trim level to get the CD and A/C, unless you want the dealer-installed A/C, something I would just as soon avoid.

    But I am jumping the gun here, as nothing specific has been announced. Right now, this is how I fear Honda will set it up, but perhaps there will be an SE package that includes A/C right off the bat, in similar fashion to there being an SE package right off the bat in the updated 2006 Accord LX.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I remember for my first new car all I wanted was A/C and a cassette player. A tach, too.

    Funny how we get sucked into the arms race and now "need" about 100 other things.

    -juice
  • mvc_jonesmvc_jones Member Posts: 88
    I agree that the general market demands comfort and convenience items as the primary part of the auto package, but I for one always lean to cars that offer all safety equipment on all trim levels (VW does this almost always) and then lets you option up on comfort/convenience features (although A/C and a cheap radio seems like starter level content to me at this point). I believe all cars should offer the best level of safety equipment at the entry trim as opposed to letting the buyer option out the safety of the car. It seems almost irresponsible in some way to give the buyer a nicer radio and aluminum trim as a base trim item and make them pay for side airbags (which in many times they won't to their misunderstood detriment) and based on market factors it is hard at times to find the safety options even available on a lot (friend had this issue with a Corolla and a Mazda 3).
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Message 6349: "... I will probably be able to pull mpgs out of a Yaris/Fit that most people get out of hybrids right now." What's your driving style, that permits you to equal the gas mileage of, say, the Prius and new Civic hybrid?
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    Toyota nearly mastered that approach (which means only that they understood the current market condition and responded to it): side airbags, ABS? Sure, in catalogs available on all trims, but on lots you find them in "top tier" models only! But power windows or even leather - no problem! Iacocca reportedly said safety does not sell well - I would add ... in economy segments. It does in premium segments, where it is basically expected as "given" that all latest safety gizmos installed standard.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The hybrids are getting about 44-46mpg in the real world, according to mileage charts I've seen.

    Realistically, a Fit or Yaris could come very close, maybe 36-38mpg or so overall.

    A difference of 8 mpg sounds like a lot, but it's not. If you go from a 10mpg Suburban to an 18mpg Pilot, it's a huge jump, but at already high MPGs you get diminishing returns.

    Some math, for this example. Say you drive 12000 miles in a year, and that gas costs $2.30.

    At 10mpg, you were using 1200 gallons in your 'burban and it cost you $2760. The improvement of +8mpg means you would use 667 gallons and spend $1533 on gas for the Pilot. Great, you just saved $1227, a savings worth investing in as long as the Pilot still met your needs.

    Now, at 36mpg on a Yaris/Fit (assuming it also meets your needs), you use 333 gallons, and it costs you $767. A jump on +8mpg by getting a Civic/Prius hybrid instead means you would use 273 gallons, which would cost just $627.

    Whoppee. You only save $140 per year. About 1/10 of what the guzzler's savings would be.

    Given the hybrid would cost about $10,000 more to acquire, the difference in interest payments alone is way, way more than what you'd save on fuel.

    Some more quick math - the $10,000 loan for 5 years at 5.9% means you'll pay $542.60 in interest in the very first year alone.

    So, paying $542.60 in interest makes saving a measly $140 not worth it. Incredibly, this example completely ignores the $10,000 extra in principle!

    Trade-in the gas guzzler, sure, but pass on the hybrid if you think a Yaris will meet your needs just as well.

    -juice
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    In Japan, several years back, Honda ran a promotion where buyers could get a free radio upgrade or free side airbags. They were surprised (appalled?) when most of the buyers chose the radio.

    Personally, I think it's good they didn't learn any lessons from that. Safety first! ;)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    from most of what I have read, people seem to be averaging about 42 mpg in the Civic Hybrid, and about 45 in the Prius. When I drove the Prius for a week, since my driving mix is highway-heavy, I only managed about 44 in the Prius myself.

    In regular gas cars, I can always get close to the highway figure in my routine driving, so I would expect to get 38 mpg, maybe 39, in a Yaris. Compare this to 42 in an HCH or 44-45 in a Prius, and really what would I be gaining? A ton of automated this-and-that that I don't even want? Give me wind-down windows and push-button locks.

    But I do want the A/C and CD, and I agree with the above poster that these should be minimum content these days, especially in a Honda, which is supposed to be a cut above. After all, at the $13K price point that I expect the Fit to start at, the Koreans and Americans are making A/C standard.

    Of course, I also agree that people should not have to pick between safety and basic equipment. ABS and side airbags should be a minimum these days, and indeed they are at Hyundai, yet somehow Toyota can't manage this in the Yaris, Corolla, or $20K all-new RAV4?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    First the good news:

    -The new Civic seems to be selling well.

    -The Oddy Mini-van and Pilot are solid sellers as well.

    -A new CR-v as said in past posts should be out by sept 07 I would think so that should generate alot showroom traffic later in the year.

    -Honda offers one of the lowest if not the lowest
    increntives numbers $$$ wise in the industry.

    -The Acura TL and TSX have sold well.

    The bad news:

    The Ridgeline and Acura RL have had lukewarm sales.

    Accord sales down 31% last month and that worries me big time. To go further into it Honda sold 38K Accords in December 2004 where as they only sold 26K Accords in December 2005. Honda should push the new Accord's release date up. As mentioned before a new Camry will come out in a couple months but also a new Altima will probably come out before a next generation Accord does.

    -Acura MDX is getting long in the tooth.

    On a side note I think Honda may grow a little in the first 3 quarters of 2006 and I would look for sales to go up more steadily later in the year with the CR-V coming out. My only concern competition wise for Honda sales would be Toyota, Hyundai, and the Mazda 3 maybe taking some Civic byers away. I don't see Nissan or Chrysler really putting any dent into Honda sales. Chrysler doesn't have a good selling mid-size car yet and Nissan sales have taken a hit of late with the declining sales in the SUV market. I have no clue when a new Sentra will be out. Meanwhile, Ford is in sort of a rebuilding mode and GM are they really a factor anymore?
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    "The Ridgeline and Acura RL have had lukewarm sales."

    I think "lukewarm" might be too kind for the RL.

    The Ridgeline is doing fine, though. It's on track to make their sales goal. It will likely exceed it, if only slightly. The fact that the Ridge requires special deals and incentives is unusual for a Honda, but it is not at all unusual for a truck.

    Honda also has the Fit coming this year. Offering a low cost vehicle should help fend off Hyundai. And Acura is getting the RDX by summer.

    I agree with you on the Accord. I think the days of dominating the competition are over. Everyone is trying to build an Accord competitor. No one is trying to chase the Camry.

    But I think this will be more or less a building year for Honda. They'll hold their position in the market and start pushing again next year. At that time they'll have a new CR-V, MDX, the new Accord will arrive late in the year, and they'll probably introduce a new model.
  • chicagodrive1chicagodrive1 Member Posts: 64
    The Accord seems to get uglier with each new redesign. I wish they'd stop goofing around with the tail-lights and settle on a uniquely Honda "look" and not resort to Ford Taurus-like design cues.

    I guess this could be a part of Honda's master plan...with the Accord looking homely (intended for middle-aged women), it may make up selling TSXs easier.
  • mvc_jonesmvc_jones Member Posts: 88
    Agreed. I looked at the 2006 Accord V6 4dr and on paper it was great, but when looking at and, sitting in it/looking at the interior and driving it, I went with the 2006 TL. I felt the 2006 Accord exterior styling to be so bland and poorly proportioned that I would never truly enjoy the purchase and always have some misgivings. Interior styling was also mediocre. TL has been great except for a few rattles, great performance, excellent styling, fit and finish still not as good as the Germans (my 2003 VW Passat had better fit and finish, as well as paint and detailing in the build.)
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "I agree with you on the Accord. I think the days of dominating the competition are over. Everyone is trying to build an Accord competitor. No one is trying to chase the Camry. "

    I don't think the days of the Accord being dominant are over but the styling of the current generation Accord just is very boring and it doesn't look right. I know the Accord has always been bashed for bland styling but the 03 is just so bland the styling is just very undescript. The new back end just doesn't help the styling enough.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "The Accord seems to get uglier with each new redesign. I wish they'd stop goofing around with the tail-lights and settle on a uniquely Honda "look" and not resort to Ford Taurus-like design cues."

    I don't think the Accord gets uglier with each redesign. I mean for me the 1994-1997 Accord was probably the cloeset Honda came to taking a chance on the styling with the Accord. The late 80's Accord Coupe was also very good looking. They had no choice with the 98 Accord but to style like it like they did because they had to compete with the Camry in terms of interior room thus exterior styling suffered for the 6th generation Accord. Toyota really outsmarted Honda with the 92 Camry thus Honda was forced to make the 98 Accord bigger to compete with the Camry. The 98 Accord was bland but it still looks good. The 03+ Accord I can't say the same about. Keep in mind I am 26 years old.

    "I guess this could be a part of Honda's master plan...with the Accord looking homely (intended for middle-aged women), it may make up selling TSXs easier."

    No, I don't think that was Honda's plan just to sell the Accord to middle aged women. I think with the 03 Accord they were trying to go for GM and Ford buyers and I think thats why the styling on the 03 Accord didn't come out right. They were trying to keep the core Honda buyer but at the same time win some Domestic 3 Buyers over which backfired big time. THE TSX was brought into the line-up to compete with the Mazda 6 and Subie Legacy which are smaller cars than the Accord.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    I admit the Accord's new styling has hurt its sales. But for a sedan that doesn't depend on incentives and fleet sales, its selling quite well.

    Toyota and Honda both have different goals. Toyota wanted to keep its role as a best seller. By doing that, they had to sell their Camry's in fleets and offer incentives. That hurt it's resale value. Honda on the other hand wanted to keep its high resale value. By doing that, they had to sell very little in fleets and offer few incentives. That effected the Accords sales.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Toyota and Honda both have different goals. Toyota wanted to keep its role as a best seller. By doing that, they had to sell their Camry's in fleets and offer incentives. That hurt it's resale value."

    Yeah I know Toyota at least in Central NJ had a 1500 dollar factory rebate on the Camry for 03 and 04 model years I think. In my opinion Camry's resale is still good though. Consumer Reports recently dropped The Camry's resale value from above average to average though.

    "Honda on the other hand wanted to keep its high resale value. By doing that, they had to sell very little in fleets and offer few incentives. That effected the Accords sales."

    Yeah I know one of the Accord's strenghs has been its resale value over the years but with a new Camry coming out soon and sales of the Accord dropping 31% last month can Honda stilll keep Accord sales from dropping significantly this 2006 sales year? I think this year is going to be tough too keep Accord sales stable from year 2005 sales in which they sold 369,000 Accord's. Its going to be tough on Honda to not only to keep Accord sales stable for this year but also next year as well since a new Accord won't probably be coming out until late 2007.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    pwnd!

    I thought the Ridgeline was obvious, since it'll affect truck design for quite some time.

    I'm a little surprised by the car result. I guess the Solstice is a huge leap for GM, but it follows a very traditional formula. The Civic's taken packaging to a new extreme, and its interior is pretty bold too. (Whether it works or not is another matter, but it's beside the point.)
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    My beef with the Solstice twins is the "piece parts" design of it. The rear end is CTS, which isn't a bad idea, the dash and motor are Cobalt SS, not a bad choice either, but the gearbox is from a Colorado Pickup! :surprise: Only 5-speeds as well... I guess it helped to keep the costs and price of entry down, but it still doesn't exude 100% effort on GM's part...

    Thing about the Civic is the WHOLE lineup that is involved, and the substantial sales and reputation that this nameplate has. it is a significant model to the Honda portfolio. Meanwhile the GM roadsters are a new entry in to the sement, but for 20k sales, it is peanuts for sales figures...
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Honda considering a 6th North American plant

    More evidence of the ever increasing Asian automakers presence in North America. Honda is now studying the need as to whether build a sixth North American assembly plant, or enlarge an existing to meet the demand for their products.

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/.ee8e51a/0
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Business Week

    Honda already has hybrid versions of the Civic and Accord on the road, and it will unleash gas-electric versions of the Pilot and Ridgeline by 2008.

    This is news to me. I haven't seen anything from a Honda source about plans to introduce a hybrid truck in 2008. Am I missing something? Dunno where this guy got it from.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    That one does not surprise me. The Ohio plants are now responsible for half a dozen models on at least three different platforms. December sales of their sedans were constrained because of lack of product.

    I would have thought they'd add another line at the Ody/Pilot plant down in Alabama. Not sure if this rumor means a whole new facility or a new line at an existing site.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    that must be new from the car show......????
  • AG11AG11 Member Posts: 31
    I agree Honda's golden years were probably 1994-2000 when the generation X crowd was buying Honda's like crazy

    Hey, another GenXer here. I loved the Honda back in early 90's. Those were the best looking Accords/Civics/Legends. I had a used Integra in college, man I loved that car! :D

    Somewhere in the late 90's, Hondas started to look frumpy, and I started trying other makes.

    This ex-Honda guy is now a happy VW/Audi customer. Well, I bought an Odyssey for my wife, so maybe I never left. ;)
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    They retracted it!

    I was just looking for the statement about the Pilot hybrid and it's no longer in that article. They changed the sentence to say something about moving hybrids into the Acura line-up.
  • mvc_jonesmvc_jones Member Posts: 88
    Funny, as a Gen Xer, I went the other way. Used to own VW/Audi products as well as Saab, enjoyed the unique design, good performance, good safety, I think those cars have lost some of their edge (except the Audi in terms of exterior/interior design), especially the new Passat, and Saab is becoming more and more irrevelant (9-5 is aging, going on 7 years or so without major upgrade, 9-3 is ok but nothing special, 9-2x was a joke of a rebadged Subaru, and 9-7x is a major joke as a rebadged GM SUV). Reliability has always been an issue with the above makes, even though I generally consider build quality and fit and finish of recent products to be very good (i.e. paint, gaps, joints between materials, etc...)

    I went to my first Honda product with a new Acura TL, design inside and out is very good, although not cutting edge, but very clean, good performance, excellent reliability, a cut below the Germans and Swedes in build quality and fit and finish (was surprised that Acuras paint is just ok and alignment of panels is just ok.) But I find the Acura to be the car which probably does not excel at any one thing but is very very good at everything, which suits my desire to have a car that suits my needs with exceptional reliability, something I do not trust VW/Audi or Saab to do (at least on the reliability and quality/competency of service area.)
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Somewhere in the late 90's, Hondas started to look frumpy, and I started trying other makes. This ex-Honda guy is now a happy VW/Audi customer.

    That's interesting, I didn't buy any Hondas in the 1990's because they either didn't impress me with their looks, performance, or both. To be fair, the only cars we bought in the decade were a 1995 Nissan Maxima SE 5-speed and an Isuzu Trooper (big mistake). So other than a 1995 Accord or 1996 Passport, Honda didn't get any other chances to snag me. (The Legend GS 6-speed was out of my price range).

    However,of the several other people I know that now have 2004-2006 TL's, at least three or four of them came from the Audi camp. A common cross shopping line-up among them seems to be the A6, 530i, TL and RL. And even though the TL is the least expensive, it appears to hold its own reasonably well against the others. The fact that Acura went beyond sporty design and fitted the 2004 TL with a 6-speed and gave it much better handling than the previous generation kept me from going the BMW route.

    Obviously, tastes and styling are highly personal. Had I bought my wife a "frumpy" Odyssey, she would have divorced me. ;) Her only gripe with her MDX is that it doesn't have a 6-speed manual like the TL. :(
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    MDX would be an interesting vehicle with a stick. I am very disappointed to find the upcoming RDX is also lacking a manual as well. We are a very limited breed I suspect :(
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Mrs. Varmint was fine with a stick for years. We had several. But recently she began driving more often in traffic. Too bad because a TSX would be a perfect car for her. Just can't talk her out of the automatic!
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    My wife had a few herself (Prelude, Nissan Sentra). Her last couple of cars have been Auto though as she grew tired of 3 pedals. She does on occasion drive the S2k, but has no intentions of having a manual as a daily driver.

    I might have convinced her on the 6 speeder for the TL which she oh so wants if she didn't need all the utility of the MDX. A slushbox for the TL is just so wrong...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I expected Ridgeline (when I found out the RAV4 didn't even make finalist!), but I also expected the Solistice. Not so much on merit, more so on its significance to GM.

    VW/Audi: it's funny, you get one extreme or the other. Enthusiasts who swear by them, and folks that were burned and you couldn't give one to.

    -juice
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Was the RAV4 even eligible? I would have thought that it needed to be on sale by a certain date.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I agree. I bet it will be a contender for the 2007 NACOTY, but not this year.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I thought I saw it on the list of nominees...don't recall the article, though.

    -juice
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Hey, another GenXer here. I loved the Honda back in early 90's. Those were the best looking Accords/Civics/Legends. I had a used Integra in college, man I loved that car!"

    The 96-97 Accord was sweet looking back in the day. That was the particular generation of Accord that got me hooked to Honda at a very young age when I was in High School. Honda won my interest back then. As a matter of fact for my first car I wanted a late 80's Accord too. I didn't get it then though.

    "Somewhere in the late 90's, Hondas started to look frumpy, and I started trying other makes."

    I don't have a problem with the late 90's Honda's. The 03 Accord just totally was just totally just didn't look like the Honda I grew up with from the mid to late 90's period. Honda has showed me alot from coming back from the 03 Accord styling dud in the last few years in regards to exterior design with new Civic Coupe and 04+ TL. The Pilot and accord just don't do anything for me.

    On a side note, my problem is I would buy a Mazda 6 right now instead of buying a Honda. I hope the next Accord they style it real good. Right now I am a Acura CL owner.
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