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Has Honda's run - run out?

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That number may be artificially low. Didn't they start out selling 1996 models? I'm not sure when, but probably in the fall, i.e. less than a full year of sales.

    Perhaps we should look at 1997, the first full year of sales.

    -juice
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    What, Acura in general? They started out back in 1986.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    2 typos on my part, I meant 1986/1987, not the 90s. My bad. :sick:

    1986 was the first year, but it was not a full year of sales. So what I meant was we should look at 1987 as the first full year for sales, for comparison.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Now we're talking, from that chart, they had about 53k sales in 1986. But it was a partial year.

    The first full year was 1987, and sales were 109k.

    So there really wasn't much growth until much later. In 1998, they still had 110k in sales, basically no real sustained growth after 11-12 years or so in the market. To make things worse, they had 2 models in 1987, but a full 6 models in 1998.

    But that's when they really picked up. 2000, 2001, and 2004 were big growth years for Acura. And that's pretty much attributable to the TL, then the MDX, and then the TSX to a lesser extent. The TL and MDX keep growing, too.

    I predict that the RDX will go a whole lot better than the SLX or CL ever did, so the future looks bright.

    -juice
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    For now, RDX will likely help maintain the sale number lost due to demise of RSX. However, it will be interesting to see what Acura does to grow further.

    IMO, adding higher trims to both TSX and TL and tweaking RL are due. Besides, the possibility of a coupe or two in the lineup.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    TSX coupe perhaps. I'm sure they're hoping the RDX will bring new growth, and a coupe or some other model will pick up the RSX slack.

    Prices and profit margins for the smaller RSX are lower anyway.

    -juice
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    a rwd coupe based on the s2k?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    As much as that is what *I* would like to see, a tiny 2 seater would not add any real sales volumes.

    A 4 seat TSX coupe, to go up against the G35c and BMW 325i is what I had in mind. Those can actually get a bit of volume. Plus the segment is not really overcrowded at the price of the TSX, it's sort of in between the mainstream coupes and the luxury ones.

    Is there a Euro Accord coupe? I know they have a wagon. How 'bout an Outback-like TSX wagon crossover? ;)

    -juice
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,549
    Ohhh, I would like that - with manual of course. I would also take their regular wagon anytime.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The one from the ultra-cool Cog ad:

    image

    They won't sell that here, though. RDX sort of fills that segment for Acura.

    -juice
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    With the Legend, Integra and NSX, Acura entered the race at a very fast pace. Then they hit the wall. The Vigor never took off. The 3.5RL replacement for the Legend was a "legendary" dud. To add to their woes, the sports car market was shrinking and Integra sales went with it. Don't get me started on the SLX...

    Looking at that chart, I was surprised by how much dealers were relying on the first generation CL.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    I've got my fingers crossed for the Sports4. Supposedly a replacement for the Euro Accord with an option for a turbo 4 and SH-AWD. Some expect to see a coupe version of that car.

    The RDX fills the need for a wagonish vehicle in the line-up. So I wouldn't expect to see anything like the Euro Accord wagon.

    My own silly notion is to bring over the JDM Odyssey. That's the rig Juice noted in the video from a few days back. It's a van that's more like a wagon. Think of a slightly larger version of the Mazda5, but not nearly as big as a US minivan. Marketers would call it "a sports-tourer'.

    Anyway, give it the J32 from the TL or the K23 turbo from the RDX and bring it over in full luxury treatment. It's already fully-loaded in Japan. The Ody is a good-looking vehicle already. With a few cosmetic upgrades and a sportier suspension set up, it would make a good vehicle for empty nesters. There are a number of people who grew to love the space in their minivan, but don't have kids in the house anymore. Consider it a down-market alternative to the R Class from MB.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Interesting, so you'd bring that as an Acura, eh?

    R-class is selling below expectations, though. Perhaps Benz just price it too high (higher than the ML).

    I like the JDM Ody but might keep it as a Honda. They could even bump up the equipment in the base Odyssey and leave the sub-$26k market for the smaller van.

    -juice
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,182
    I have dreams of that very thing...
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,182
    "A 4 seat TSX coupe, to go up against the G35c and BMW 325i is what I had in mind. Those can actually get a bit of volume."

    If they make it a damn Front driver I will have a fit :mad: Otherwise Honda is going to be missing the boat on the intended market...
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "If they make it a damn Front driver I will have a fit..."

    But isn't the Fit a front-driver, too?

    :P
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Actually, the Ody from Japan is considered the more luxurious of the two vehicles wearing the name. (They used to sell our Ody over there under a different/cheesy name.) The JDM Ody could pass for an Acura with nothing more than a new badge - though I'm certainly not recommending that approach.

    If they took a well-equipped JDM version (3.0L V6) with no changes at all, it would probably start near $28K. That would include power everything, but not the NAV, memory seats, or a top shelf stereo. Those items would add to the cost.

    Now, tweak it a bit for the US market. Give it the 3.2 V6 from the TL or the 2.3 Turbo from the RDX. Tighten the suspension a bit and give it a facade more in keeping with the Acura family. The base trim would probably go for $32-33K. Then load it with NAV, ELS stereo, memory seats, etc. and it would easily sticker for $35-36K.

    A luxury van like the Town & Country looks almost identical to the Caravan it's based on. It also performs like a Caravan and gets as much respect. The JDM Ody looks nothing like anything else on the US market. It handles more like a sport wagon than a van. Its most direct competitors would probably be the T&C and the Pacifica. However, I can also see it stealing sales away from the Volvo, Audi, and BMW wagons.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,182
    :D That's awesome. No pun intended.
  • from_flfrom_fl Posts: 113
    Honda needs to improve their car styling issue first.
    It appear they noticed the problem and started to correct it(latest Civic, Fit look good.) However, they need to do the same for Acura line or else MBenz/BMW/Lexus will beat them every time.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Is that what we call them? ;)

    Mazda5 proved there is a market, at least on the value end of the scale. It has exceeded Mazda's expectations.

    I think the class folded when the bizarre-looking predecessors failed in the market, I'm talking about the Nissan Axxess.

    Maybe it's time to revive an old idea?

    I'll bring my camera next time I go to church. It's surreal to see a JDM vehicle with diplomatic plates on US roads. Pretty cool.

    -juice
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Styling issues? The Acura line has never looked better. The RL might need a little more sparkle, but that's nothing that can't be fixed with a new grill and a couple minor cosmetic upgrades. The TSX is handsome and the TL has earned rave reviews.

    The Honda line has some real issues with the current Accord and the Ridgeline. But the Odyssey, Pilot, CR-V, Civic, and S2000 are all fine. That Fit you mentioned is actually wearing sheetmetal from 5-6 years ago. We're getting that model after it's been on the market in other countries for a full product cycle.

    Frankly, I think BMW is the one in danger of having styling hurt their game.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    Is a better set of wheels. I lovw everything else about the car.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Given the way the RL is selling (or, rather, isn't selling), I'd be willing to bet Acura would throw in an extra set of wheels or three, if that's your only objection.

    For me, the wheels are just about perfect, compared to other shortcomings (performance oriented) of this wannabe flagship. And whether its the wheels, or the ho-hum performance, the RL is just about dead last in sales volume among its peers (5 series, E class, A6, Infiniti M, GS, etc.).

    If you are that serious in your affection for the car, I suggest you cut a good deal and swap out the wheels. You should be able to pick one up for well under invoice.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    Atlanta dealer didn't even want to sell a demo for the $39k that I heard they were going for. So I passed. I even took one home for a night. I've found another use for that income now. So too late.
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    go down to the mazda store and get a RX8, if you can get over the abysmal mpg numbers and possible rotary engine related problems down the road.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "It appear they noticed the problem and started to correct it(latest Civic, Fit look good.) However, they need to do the same for Acura line or else MBenz/BMW/Lexus will beat them every time."

    Why, you think the 5 Series and 3 Series are such lookers. Maybe the last generation of 5 Series(98-03) and the 3 Series(99-05) were lookers but the current generations of 3 and 5 Series are not lookers. The front of the 3 Series is quite good stylisically but the back of it? The current 3 Series doesn't have quite the sleek and elegant look of the last generation(99-05)3 Series.

    Lexus, are the ES330 and LS430 lookers? Not really. THE GS and IS are ok looking though in my opinion but nothing to get wowed over.

    The Accord in Honda's line-up is the one that needs alot more sportier look stylisitically at the moment.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "R-class is selling below expectations, though. Perhaps Benz just price it too high (higher than the ML)."

    This is not to knock Mercedes or anything like that since I respect them alot but the R-Class has too much of a resemblance to its little brother: The Chrysler Pacifica in my opinion.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "Now we're talking, from that chart, they had about 53k sales in 1986. But it was a partial year."

    "The first full year was 1987, and sales were 109k."

    "So there really wasn't much growth until much later. In 1998, they still had 110k in sales, basically no real sustained growth after 11-12 years or so in the market. To make things worse, they had 2 models in 1987, but a full 6 models in 1998."

    I wonder what year Lexus passed Acura in Sales since we are going over all these sales numbers. I think the Acura brand came out 3 years before the Lexus brand did so Acura did have a 3 year headstart on Lexus. Nissan's Infinti brand came out out the same time as Toyota's Lexus's brand did but still Infinti has never had the sales numbers that Lexus or even Acura has had. I wonder how close sales numbers wise the 1995-1999 I30 and 1996-1998 TL were as well. I also wonder how close the first generation LS 400 and 2nd generation Legend were as well in sales numbers. Wasn't the first generation LS 400 out when the 1991-1995 Legend was on the market or was it not or was the Lexus GS a direct competitor to the Legend at the time in 1993 if it was out rather than the LS400?
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "IMO, adding higher trims to both TSX and TL and tweaking RL are due. Besides, the possibility of a coupe or two in the lineup."

    RL tweaking already? Honda usually waits until a fourth model year of a current generation bodystyle of one of its cars to do a mid-cycle refresh. The RL is going in for a refresh in its 3rd year of bodystyle of its current generation model? I think the TL is due for a mid-cycle resfresh for the 07 model year as well.
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