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Comments
18186 VEHICLE INQUIRY REPORT DATE: 04/07/08
DCV920 TIME: 09:51
Model Number: 8352A SERIAL # :8X053419 Check Code: 0
Model Description: DCAB LTD 5.7L V8 Category ..........: G
Year ............: 2008 Current Dealer ....: 110-04136
Interior Color ..: LD13 LD13 Wholesale Dealer ..: 04136
Exterior Color ..: 0040 WHITE Previous Dealer ...: 00110
Body ............: DBL CAB 5.7L LTD Invoice Date ......: 02/08/08
Number of Cyl ...: 8 Ship Date .........: 02/07/08
Allocation Number: 012 Retail Date .......:
Engine Number ...: 5206225 Date of First Use .:
Vessel Number ...: 705 TRAC ..............: NO
Vessel Name .....: TMMTX SANANTONIO Damage ............: NO DAMAGE
PDI ...............: YES
Fleet .............: NON-FLEET
Port PDS Complete .: NO
VIN .............: 5TFBV58148XXXXXXX
Ignition Key.....: N/A
Factory Installed Accessories: FE AL
Port Installed Accessories ..: C4 7J
Retail Dealer
Vehicle Base Model ....................: $ 38770.00 $ 33923.00
Total Accessories .....................: $ 1048.00 $ 813.50
MECHANICAL & PERFORMANCE
GVWR = 7100 lbs. Payload = 1560 lbs.
Tow Capacity = 10,300 lbs.
381HP/401 Lb-Ft 5.7L DOHC 32V iForce V8
w/Dual Independent VVT-I and ACIS
6-Spd Auto w/Seq Shift and Tow/Haul Mode
Engine Immobilizer, Cruise Control
4WDemand 4x4 System w/Electronically
Controlled 2 Speed Transfer Case
Tow Equip: Hitch Receiver, Supp A/T
Cooler, 4.30 Rear Diff w/10.5" Ring Gear
150A Alternator, A/T Temp Gauge, 7 Pin
Conn, Trailer Brake Controller Prewire
Automatic Limited Slip Diff (Auto LSD)
Front and Rear Sonar
TripleTech Frame: Fully-boxed Fr Section
Reinforced C Under Cab, Open C Under Bed
Coil Over Shock Double A-Arm Front Susp
Multi-Leaf Trapezoidal Rear Suspension
18" Alloy Wheels w/P275/65R18 Tires
EXTERIOR
6.5'' Double-Walled Bed w/Tailgate Assist
Color-keyed Fr/Chrome Rr Bumper
Chrome Grille/Door Handles/Outer Mirror
Sliding Rr Window w/Privacy Glass
Fog Lamps
INTERIOR
Leather Trim Pwr Heated Front Buckets
Automatic Dual Zone Climate Control
JBL AM/FM 6-CD, 10 Spkrs, Aux Audio Jack
w/Steering Wheel Audio Cntrls, Bluetooth
Power Windows/Door Locks/Mirrors
Remote Keyless Entry & Anti-Theft System
SAFETY
STAR Safety: Pwr Assist 4 Wheel Disc ABS
w/Electronic Brakeforce Distrib (EBD),
Brake Assist, Vehicle Stability Control
with Active Traction Control (VSC+ATRAC)
Dr & Fr Pass Advanced Airbags/Seat Side
Airbags/3 pt Seatbelts w/Pretensioners
& Force Limiters
Roll-Sensing Curtain Airbags (RSCA)
Tire Pressure Monitoring System
Retail Dealer Total
Vehicle Base Model ..........................:$ 38770.00 $ 33923.00 $ 38770.00
50 State Emissions .........................
20" Alloy Wheels w/P275/55R20 Tires ........ 920.00 736.00
Carpet Floor Mats - 4 piece ................ 115.00 69.00
Front License Plate Bracket ................ 13.00 8.50
--------- --------- ---------
Total Accessories ...........................: $ 1048.00 $ 813.50 $ 1048.00
Destination Charge ..........................: $ 685.00 $ 685.00
TDA .........................................: $ 400.00
Gasoline ....................................: $ 10.00
Dealer Holdback .............................: $ 775.00
Whsl. Financial Reserve .....................: $ 387.00
--------- ---------
Total .......................................Invoice: $ 36993.50 / MSRP: $ 40503.00
In most cases... you get one or the other - the rebate or low apr, which in this case, you said you were opting for the low apr, so the rebate wouldn't have even applied too you.
You stated that you bought a few other vehicles at invoice, and since most manufacturers have holdback and a regional ad fee, you paid these and just didn't know it. Most hard copy invoices from the manufacturer don't itemize the fees - they're simply built into the invoice, just like you see here on Edmunds. The fees you saw on the vehicle inquiry report were itemized, but they tally up to the total invoice price the dealer was billed. Toyota can charge whatever they want for their products, and they did just that, and it's not a crime for a franchised dealer to pass on their costs to you - the consumer. This is where properly preparing yourself to make a purchase comes into play.
As for financing, when Toyota offers 0% or whatever special rate, in most cases, if a consumer is Tier 1 and above ( 700 FICO or higher) and they opt for that financing, they get it - nothing shady about it. What research have you done that proves otherwise? A dealer can't mark-up special financing, in fact, they may have to pay into it to help subsidize the low rate since it's usually well below current rates. In most cases, when a rebate is available in lieu of the special financing, and a customer opts for the financing, the money that would be used towards the rebate is typically shifted to subsidize the low rate. The only thing that might make a customer balk is a possible pre-payment penalty. TFS has no pre-payment penalty after 3 months, but what's shady about that? That's up to the lender, not the dealer.
In regards to the products/services a finance manager tries to sell you, it's not that hard to just say "no thank you" and move on. You can't take it personally if they mope (and who really cares anyway), and if they make you feel guilty, in essence, they've done their job.
In the world of accounting for auto dealerships, costs paid and incurred by the retailer for such costs as marketing (advertising), bank financing (interest expense), salaries, rent, utilities are considered selling and overhead costs. In the real world, these costs paid or incurred by the retailer are not passed on to the consumer. The retailer, Walmart, does not charge the consumer for an additional mark up or "mandatory fees" in addition to the sale price of an item listed in sales ad, except for local sales tax (a true mandatory fee) or Oregon doesn't charge sales tax.
The MSRP is a suggested retail price. It is not mandated by the manufactured; it is only suggested. The so called "dealer's invoice" is just a reference to a standard cost of a finished item; it is definitely not used in financial or tax accounting that is reported to the SEC or IRS or EU.
In purchasing a car, the consumer negoitates A "price" that his willing to pay. He doesn't want to be nickled and dime; average "Joe" just wants "one -final -negotiated -price. " In the world of negoitations, one will often hear, "tax, license, complete" for 1-price. NOT,"or by the way I have to add marketing, interest, delivery to your final negotiated price.
According to all the auto brochures, "dealerships MAY include an advertising fee on top of the MSRP." Who pays MSRP? the dealer MAY ,not must, not will ...
Getting back to your comments. When a consumer pays in addition to his final negoiated price; he expects Tax, License and DMV fees. Not what the dealership demands that he pays (mandatory fees) in addition to. In the regulated world of the Federal Trade Commission for consumers, the fair market value of a product is determine between a willing buyer and a willing seller, NOT in addition to! That was my point. In my previous comments, I should have preface that I was coming from the world of accounting for tax and SEC.
Your points are well addressed in your comments. I am coming from a consumer and tax accountant. Have a great day!
Once again... Invoice is not cost, and I never said it was. For example, let's say you agree on a price $500 over dealer invoice for a Tundra, hopefully by now you realize that you didn't pay $500 profit. If you get a deal at $500 over (invoice less holdback and wfr), you still didn't pay a $500 profit. A dealer's profit margin involves a lot more than just what is paid for the vehicle and quite frankly, it's really not the customer's business. The sales staff isn't even aware of what the true dead cost is, nor should they. The customer should not be in the business of concerning him/herself with the financials of the dealership.
Look, if the dealer started writing in a bunch of extraneous fees on your purchase order, then you'd have every right to question them, but on a true invoice from a manufacturer, those fees were paid, whether the customer wants to believe it or not. They are not "nickel & dime" fees. Holdback was paid upfront by the dealer (as part of the invoice), and yes, this money is refunded back to them, typically quarterly, as is the wfr, but they typically go right back into overhead expenses. The TDA was paid to the regional distributor and is never refunded (at least for Toyota).
There is no doubt that the automotive industry has created a life-long negative stigma. It sucks, but it's the nature of the business. As a consumer myself, I may have a leg up as I worked in the business and currently still consult. However, as an independent consultant, I have zero allegiance to any dealer or the slimy tricks they may pull. This is why I post on this board - to help people, not to flash around my knowledge.
Like I said, a consumer can offer anything he wants, but you let your emotions get the best of you because you simply had no clue that those fees were part of the invoice. And in regards to the advertisnig fee, if you think that products you buy at a retail store don't have that cost built in to their product, you're nuts. Besides, buying a truck is not the same as buying a TV from Walmart - nobody at Walmart has the authority to field a price offer from a customer. If a TV is on sale for $799, you don't walk in and say you'll give them $500 for it. You'd get laughed out of the store. Needless to say, shopping for a car is not to be compared with shopping for "other" retail items. It's a completely different way of buying.
You are correct about the invoice being an arbitrary number though. It simply allows you to compare dealer A to dealer B. If you know what people are paying for this vehicle and you got a dealer to give it too you, I still don't see what all the fuss is about. If you don't want to pay the the holdback, financial reserve, and the ad fee - fine, offer them $2k below invoice. If they say yes, you've got an exceptional deal, if they say no - well, then you'll know that they're not as desperate as everything thinks.
Despite what people are saying about high fuel prices, demand still varies in the truck market. For example, a Crew Maxx 5.7L is not nearly as distressed as a 4.7L Double Cab. Therefore, $1000 below invoice on the DC could probably be had all day long, whereas with a CM, they may not take anything less than invoice.
BTW... I notice you live in Salinas, I have a fantastic Fleet contact at one of the Toyota dealerships in the bay area. If you give me the specs and color of what type of truck you're looking for, I'd be happy to set you up, or get you a quote at the very least. And no, I do not work for him or recieve a referral fee. He's just an honest, professional straight shooter who will tell you what he can and can't do.
Depsite what you might think, I want you to get a truck, and I want you to get a great deal. But understand, no matter what Toyota dealership you go to, when you ask to see the invoice (on their computer), they will all have the same items the first dealer showed you. Why? Because they are costs billed from the manufacturer - simple as that. You just happened to see them in itemized form. Had they of shown you a hard copy, the price would have been exactly the same and you would have had no idea that they were included.
The average consumer does not have direct access to the Dealership's books and records. The financial or cost accountants, internal and outside auditors have this knowledge. After all , we're paid to follow the cash.
From my perspective as a consumer and accountant, I refuse to participate in the "marketing or sales tactics" used in the "closing game of the sale." The auto retail industry and the timeshare industry use the same selling and marketing tactics to "close the sale." They're job is to SELL; they have to eat. I, as a consumer, chose to participate or walk to another dealer. In my case, I am going to purchase the truck from Toyota USA. Knowledge is key to the consumer, especially when you examine numbers for a living and report these numbers to the SEC, IRS, State Franchise Tax Board, and the shareholder or dealership owners.
My main point in all our discussions is the "marketing and sales game" used at the time of closing A "sale". The auto retail industry deserves the stigma as being "unethical" in using these marketing/closing tactics:
-0-% or low interest financing, free this or free that-TO get you into the door. Timeshare selling 101.
Your observations as a consultant to the industry are well taken. I am just coming from debits and credits and legal.
From a consumer, I expected to receive a competitve and fair price. For the average consumer, the Edmunds or KBB "dealer's invoice" is my reference for a fair and determinable (fair market price), not MSRP or what a dealership or retailer what's to sell.
MSRP has not been mentioned, so that's never been the issue - but I have to assume that you researched invoice pricing on Edmund's, so how far off was their quoted price from what you saw online? Again, my guess is that it was off the few hundred bucks for the TDA? Edmund's also has a section that discuss' regional advertising fees.
Dealership bread and butter profits comes from service, not from sales. The gross margins does not support the business. Agreed, the fixed and variable costs are built into the product or car or computer or any manufactured item. The dealership is a retailer; he doesn't manufacture any wigets; his job is to move the inventory at A "price". The retailer will incurred and pay selling costs, ie floor interest, advertising, salaries. The dealership does not "directly" pass these selling costs to the consumer; he adds a mark up to the (paid price of the manufactured item) to arrive at his "selling price." He may or will at times sell the car or truck above, at, or below his actual cost to "move the inventory." All retailers repond to the marketplace: demand vs supply.
Fair enough, but this is simply repeating what we both already know.
My initial point as a consumer is that at the "time of closing or signing", I don't want to be "nickled and dimed" by A "salesman" for so called "mandatory fees". The only mandatory fees are state and local taxes, NOT, some "marketing ploy" or "sales practice" to get the consumer to pay added costs (in this case-profit). Granted, there are additional fees or costs that the manufactured invoices to the retailer or the dealer incurs additional "bank flooring costs" or "inventory costs."
Okay, fair enough, but as you stated, and I can only assume that you utilized this site for pricing comparison - so if you are to base a "competitive" price against what you saw here, and were not aware of the fees, you still thought you were getting a deal, so where's the problem? It's pointless to keep repeating what's already been covered. And once again, Edmund's and virtually all other third party pricing sites include the holdback and wfr (for Toyota) in their INVOICE pricing. So I guess technically they should be reported for "hiding" these fees too, right? C'mon! You knew what Edmund's invoice price was, so the question you still didn't answer was... how could you have been shocked when the invoice they showed you was almost identical to what your researched proved? This is the question I've been trying to get out of you, but 3 posts later and have nothing more than fancy verbage? Okay, I get that the fees were itemized, but they were/are already included in the Edmund's pricing that you researched online and claimed that you use to determine a "fair market value"? Now, if the dealer's invoice was "packed" a few grand over and above what you saw online, then by all means I'd have some questions!
The average consumer does not have direct access to the Dealership's books and records. The financial or cost accountants, internal and outside auditors have this knowledge.
Nor should they or to any business for that matter.
In my case, I am going to purchase the truck from Toyota USA.
How are you purchasing directly from Toyota w/o going through a franchised dealer? Only guess is that you're getting employee pricing from your family member? Does she work for a regional distributor? My guess is that you'll pay factory invoice minus the holdback and wfr (typical employee pricing). That would be an excellent deal.
Knowledge is key to the consumer.
Now this we can agree on!
I applaud Edmunds and KBB in helping the consumer in his "due dilligence." One day, your auto retail industry will have to change to the "Ebay"/ "Amazon" way of marketing cars...click, click and pick up your car at a designated pick up point...get rid of the high pressured sales and marketing tactics. If Costco can sell high end manufactured products and be very successful at it; they can surely sell cars...one day...
With the economy slowing down and consumer sentiment at a 1982 low, and dealerships flushed with unsold inventory, more power to the Consumer!
I still want to know how you're buying your truck directly through Toyota?
The Ebay pricing....... get into the world of internet pricing....not what has been done (sales practices and procedures) for the past 50 years.. Retail is Retail: it's not rocket science. Don't glamorize the retail auto industry; it's racks at the top along with Timeshare selling....
I still want to know how you're buying direct? Doesn't happen unless you're a distributor or far up the chain!?!?!
Specs:
(BM) Ball Mount
(WT) Window Tint
(DS) Door Sill Enhancements
(AB) 20 Inch Carved Wheel Upgrade
(WR) Sliding Rear Window w/ Privacy Glass
(LF) Fog Lamps
(EJ) JBL Am/Fm Audio w/ 6 Disc Changer.
(RL) Daytime Running Lights
Like I tell everyone, you'll want them to itemize your OTD price. What are they selling you the vehicle for (in relation to invoice)? How much are your DMV's? How much is the Doc fee?
I'd say on a truck like this, invoice to $1000 below is a great selling price.
Selling Price + tax & doc = ??? + DMV's - rebate = Total amount to be financed (OTD)
Look out for high doc fees. In California, we are capped at $55, but I've seen it as high as $700 in some sates - that's just flat out ridiculous!
What do you mean when you say "a truck like this"? Do you mean that the truck doesn't have a lot on it so they are more likely to sell at invoice or below?
I asked to see the invoice and saw 24,858 or something. He said that this was the base invoice. But who knows if that is the actual invoice? I mean, does the salesman even know?
I asked the salesman about hidden fees and he said that I wouldn't pay anymore than the qouted price. If I buy, but finance through a credit union, what should I look out for when closing at the dealership? BTW, I would be ordering this truck. The guy said it would probably be ready from two days to three weeks. Don't know if that makes a difference on anything.
Thanks for the help
Texas Edition
-Stainless Steel Exhaust Tip
-Door Sill Enhancements.
-18 Inch Enkei Wheel Upgrade
-Running Boards
-Custom Carpeted Floor Mats
-Texas Edition Badging
How does this sound to y'all?
It has a few upgrades:
18 in alloy wheels
JBL audio system upgrade with bluetooth
front and rear sonar
floor mats
i was just wondering if this is a good price
the MSRP was 34,552
and I am taking the 0% financing
Destination is a set fee - everyone pays it. If you go back and read through some of my posts, I explain Toyota's fees (in great detail) that you'll typically see on a factory invoice, which include: TDA (regional advertising fee), Holdback (2% of base msrp) and Wholesale Financial Reserve (1% of base MSRP). These "fees" + all your options amount to the TOTAL factory invoice = how much the dealer was billed for the vehicle. Holdback and WFR are already built into the invoice prices you see on sites like Edmund's and KBB. The TDA is not however, as it varies by region (usually adds ~$500). The dealer pays this amount to it's regional distributor and is NOT refunded any of that money.
Now, is this his "dead" cost - absolutely not, only the owner of the dealership knows that, but "that" cost involves much more than just the price of the vehicle itself. Your main concern is making sure that they sell you the vehicle at or near the factory invoice (before rebate is figured in).
Most, if not all dealers will charge a documentation and processing fee, typically referred to as the "doc fee." Just make sure they don't gouge you and charge something ridiculous like $500 or $600.
Obviously, you'll have to pay gov't fees like license & registration.
What do you mean when you say "a truck like this"? Do you mean that the truck doesn't have a lot on it so they are more likely to sell at invoice or below?
Not what I meant at all - just letting you know that the full size truck market is soft and a selling price of invoice or below should be had any day of the week in most regions.
I asked to see the invoice and saw 24,858 or something. He said that this was the base invoice. But who knows if that is the actual invoice? I mean, does the salesman even know?
A retail salesman may very well NOT know the invoice of the vehicle, which is even more reason that you should be working with a fleet manager. This person will know the correct figures and has the ability to "desk his own deals" - which basically means that he can play around with the numbers and approve a deal without the back and forth BS you have to go through with a retail salesman. "Let me go check with my manager... blah, blah, blah..."
Dealer should have no problem showing you his "vehicle inquiry report" which is the computerized version of the hard-copy factory invoice. This report will itemize all your options and the fees like TDA, HB, and WFR which show you the total MSRP and total Invoice. If he has a problem showing this too you, find another dealer.
I asked the salesman about hidden fees and he said that I wouldn't pay anymore than the qouted price. If I buy, but finance through a credit union, what should I look out for when closing at the dealership? BTW, I would be ordering this truck. The guy said it would probably be ready from two days to three weeks. Don't know if that makes a difference on anything.
Don't get too wrapped up with the "fees" on the invoice as thy are indeed legit. They were paid, but the HB will be refunded to them at a later date, unless the dealer trades for your vehicle, in which case the trading dealership keeps that money.
Have your check ready from your CU before making the purchase. Simply hand it to the finance manager and he should take care of the rest. Of course, he'll try to sell you some "back-end" items like rustpoofing, fancy wax, extended warranty, etc. I'd simply say "no thank you" to everything he offers, at least the first two items, but you'll have to decide how important an extended warranty is.
Is he going to actually request a "build order" from Toyota, or he is trading with another dealership - two totally seperate scenarios. If he trades for it from another dealership, there are some factors that could affect his bottom line, such as... he loses the holdback (the trading dealer gets that reimbursement from the factory).
Everybody pays freight 'aka' destination.
Yes, the holdback (2% of base msrp) does get refunded to the dealer at a later date, as long as the original dealer sells the vehicle and does not trade for it with another dealer. Wholesale financial reserve (wfr) equates to 1/2 of the holdback (1% of base msrp). This is used to cover interest on current inventory. TDA is not refunded, nor is it a profit item. It's unfortunate that these items (fees) are itemized as it leads the consumer to believe he/she is being taken advantage of.
I just had this discussion with another member very recently. The bottom line is that they (the dealer) are simply quoting you invoice on what they were billed from the factory. Those are not dealer added fees - they're costs passed from the factory to the dealer, which in-turn, are passed onto you. This is typical of many retail products; costs such as advertisng and marketing are built in, the consumer just typically doesn't see an invoice, unlike in the car biz where the 411 is at your fingertips.
In essence, it really doesn't matter what the dealer paid for his product, what matters is what the market thinks is a fair price. The collective pricing from educated buyers will get you a great price. Check your weekly auto ads or skim the net to see what type of pricing is available in your area.
Like I've said many times before though, Invoice is strictly used as a guideline to compare deals between dealers. Invoice is NOT cost - there is much more involved to a dealer's cost then simply what a consumer sees on his computer screen.
With that said though, Invoice is a good starting point, but ultimately, supply and demand, time of the month, sales goals, etc. will all be the determining factor(s) at which price a dealer decides to sell his vehicle. You as a consumer have the right to offer any price you want, but the dealer also reserves the right to say no... or yes.
The last few posts describe the fees in great detail.
My advice: offer $1000 or maybe even $1500 below invoice and tell him you're ready to buy now. By offering that price, if you want to look at it from a "fees" perspective, you're basically buying the vehicle at invoice and subtracting out the holdback and wfr. There's two days left in this month, so if he won't do it now, he certainly won't do it the first 3.5 weeks of May. The only thing that may change in May are the rebates. They certainly won't go lower, but it's always a gamble to see if they'll go higher. Won't know 'til May 2.
Good Luck!
If you build a truck via this site (Edmunds) exactly per your specs, your total invoice after all options will essentially match the dealer's minus the TDA. Again, there's a regional variance in cost on that item. Regardless, the total invoice price you see on Edmunds INCLUDES the dealer's holdback and wfr. It's just not itemized, but trust me, it's built in.
If you say the TDA is $700, then the invoice you see on Edmunds (given you built an identical vehicle) should be $700 less than the dealer's. Holdback, wfr, destination, and tda are ALL built into the invoice, but the only one edmunds doesn't account for is the tda.
I realize I repeated this several times, but I want you to understand that they are not charging you those fees above and beyond the invoice after the fact - they're already included. When I say offer $1000 below invoice, I mean $1000 below the dealer's factory invoice (which includes the tda).
Here's what the bottom portion of the dealer's computerized invoice will look like. For illustrative purposes, I picked a random Tundra, but you can see that it's total invoice is $34871. Offering $1000 below invoice would mean a selling price of $33871 on a vehicle that retails for $38502. That would be a discount of $4631, then if there is a $3000 rebate, your "net" savings would be $7631. That's a damn good deal on a Tundra!
Total Accessories ...........................: $ 2107.00 $ 1468.50
Destination Charge ..........................: $ 685.00 $ 685.00
TDA .........................................: $ 391.00
Gasoline ....................................: $ 10.00
Dealer Holdback .............................: $ 714.00
Whsl. Financial Reserve .....................: $ 357.00
--------- ---------
Total .......................................: Invoice:$ 34871.50 MSRP: $ 38502.00
Great information. Still a bit confusing though. It all clicked when I got the vehicle inventory sheet you spoke of and finally understood what you said about them carrying these as "expenses". For me the confusion is based on the phrase "included" Does that mean it has already been netted out or not. Bottom line is that the Edmunds invoice prices includes expenses for holdback and WFR as you stated.
Anyway my proposed vehicle is a loaded (package G) CM Limited 5.7 4x4 MSRP of $48,371, invoice of $43,793 which includes expense items for TDA (500) and the holdbacks (841 plus 420). A few dealers I spoke to easily met the 43,793 number but balk once I offer into the holdback. How far can I go? I'd like to pay 42,532. I can be patient but I'd like some reassurance.
All this is before the 0% plus 1k.
Interesting to see that the holdbacks on the toyota invoice are calculated only on the vehicle base for that model and not on the total MSRP. For instance the vehicle mentioned above 2% holdback of 821 is based on the model base MSRP of 42,070 not on the specific vehicle MSRP of 47,686 (no destination.)
Thanks,
Closenough
Remember, the salesman (in most cases) doesn't know the "dead cost" of any vehicle, all he knows is the difference between MSRP and Invoice. Plus, most do not get paid on holdback even though it represents a profit, so by offering them invoice - minus holdback, wfr and tda, they look at the deal as a "no profit" deal - and it very well may be. The consumer will never know.
If you're set on that price of $42,532, tell them that you're ready to buy and that is your offer. Be polite, but firm. If they continue to balk, you know that they are unwilling to sell you the vehicle at that price - unfortunately that's their right. If this were to be the case, offer to meet them half way between your offer and the edmund's invoice they were willing to sell for.
Good luck!
Go to buyatoyota.com for recent rebates/incentives based on your zip code.
In SoCal, the rebate just went to $4000 or 0% for 60 months.
I used the equity in my Jeep Wranlger and walked away with no money out of pocket. I probably could have worked a better deal, but in the end I am satisfied with my purchase.
Looking forward to a long life for my new truck.
Turns out that I did find, through the dealer's site, that the incentives for the truck in my area are $3,000 OR $1,000 and 0% for 60 mo. The wife and I have committed to never finance a vehicle, but I considered that on roughly $44,000 (including the absorbative IL sales tax and vehicle licensing charges), I could not afford not to use their money for this purchase. Edmunds Rebate or Low Finance calculator/decision assistor, was a real help with this ( http://www.edmunds.com/apps/calc/CalculatorController ) . I used my mortgage rate (because I have a mortgage) less the benefit of tax deductability as the base rate on my money if I financed the deal.
Turns out that the $2,000 difference in the rebate makes buying the truck with cash only viable if my cost of financing is less than 2% or the amount financed is less than $20,000. All of this surprised me, as in the past, I have always found that the incentive offers made the decision more difficult -- the offers were closer to a wash or actually incentised the buyer to pay cash if he could. The current rebate/financing offers on the Tundra don't appear to have been calculated based on the typical cost of the truck.
Nevertheless, we bought the truck for $800 over invoice. I had another offer from a dealership that we had dealt with in the past for straight invoice, but the girl that was assigned to assist me with the order (take the order) could never seem to get it correct. The guy that I finally dealt with took the order, took a credit card over the phone for the $200 to secure the deal, and I never spoke to him again until the truck was delivered. We were in the dealersip for an hour signing the paperwork (with two 7 year olds) and home in time for bed.
I documented this process in 2004 when I bought the Sequoia, but when I read on these forums about the dickering and trouble with the dealerships when dealing with salesmen on the sales floor, it makes me cringe. I cannot recommend enough the value of the Edmunds article "Confessions of a Car Salesman" ( http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html ). The point is that there are dealerships that recognize that there are folks out there that buy vehicles based on other than emotional reasons (Specificaitons, comfort, previous experience with reliability, etc.) and have setup a sales channel for them. It is usually called the fleet or internet sales channel. You send these guys an email (directly from Edmunds.com if you wish) and they give you a quote. It is usually their lowest price (invoice or some price referenced against invoice). You accept it, order the vehicle, put a couple hundred down on a credit card over the phone, and they call you when the vehicle arrives. You print out your Edmunds price report with all of the invoice numbers, understand the advertising fee that is part of the cost but not on the Edmunds report, and take it with you when you pick up the vehicle. When you look at the cost on the dealer's price sheet, you simply compare it to your Edmunds report and ask questions. My experience is that these guys explain or make adjustments per your agreement and you are out of the dealership with the car you ordered in record time with absolutely no crap -- your agreement was based on the invoice after all, no discussion regarding MSRP or dealer installed options or adders.
I am happy after last night's experience. For those of you in the Chicagoland area, the dealership I dealt with was David Bruce Toyota in Bourbonais. Continental Toyota in Countryside also has a fleet/internet sales channel that works well, but I have found that unless you initiate the transaction through the internet/fleet channel, you wind up having to deal with a sales floor salesman. The deal gets complicated with the typical crap (you may have to insult the salesman by asking to speak to the internet/fleet sales manager).
Thanks again Edmunds.
running boards
cloth seats,
P4 vechicle shield package
Skid Plate enhancment
Carpet mats
for $31,989.65 before TT&L. but does include the $4000 off
So be honest did I do okay or not really? It won't be here until the 20th so still time to change my mind if I choose to.
What got me was the TT&L. He figured them for me and that came to $7264.50 extra. I have asked for him to email me a break down on this cost. But man that seems a little high. Is it just me or what?
By the way I live in Lafourche Parish , Louisiana.
Any help and advice is very welcomed. Thank you.
[X] leaving out a lot of details
[X] makes deal and then asks if it is a "good deal"
[ ] tax and fees is usually 20% of the cost of the vehicle
As I said truck isn't in yet. Only thing that was done was agreed upon a price and put down $300 to hold it for me. Thought I was doing great till he mentioned the total with TT&L. what gives?
You should look at the new car pricing on this site and select the base model and options you want. You should be able to get the truck for Invoice. Just remember that there will be some additional charge on the dealer's invoice usually called the advertising fee. For my truck on Wednesday in IL, that was something like $550.
Once you have the invoice amount, the incentives come off of that. Its majic.
I couldn't help but notice what appears to be non-standard options in your list. You should consider if you really want these. If the salesman squawks, I would suspect you are being jaked. You may want to consider pricing the vehicle out as I describe above and request Internet quotes. This bypasses the floor salesman. I wouldn't do it any other way.
Congrats on the new truck!
Not sure where you are located but if nearby I would buy you a cup of coffee. Thank you again for all of your help to myself and others here.
Getting a good deal is subjective - you feel good about your purchase and that's all that really matters!
My deal was for a CM Limited 5.7 4wd MSRP about 48.4, agree upd price of 43.2 before the rebate, about 600 below invoice.
Email me if you need any details.
Thanks.
I'm not quite sure what your point was, your definition, or where you found your numbers. My terms/numbers are easily verifiable.
I don't know what the term "dealer cost" means, I believe only the dealer knows that. I'll stick with the ones we can verify, MSRP and Invoice. These numbers can be verified here on this website or on a dealer inventory sheet (just ask.)
In my case the MSRP of 48,371 has an invoice price of 43,793 including expense items for TDA, Holdback, and WFR.