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Toyota Prius: Problems & Solutions
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Comments
There were some reports of problems if you get stuck in snow. You cannot rock the car using the transmission, because the computer won't allow it - the car will overheat. It has to do with the traction control. But basically, it will just sit there.
However, it would be nice to hear from some newer owners with snow experience.
Anyone?
Second, the VSC system is sort of like antilock brakes. If you release the pedal when it starts to actuate, you will get no stopping power. Same with VSC (traction control or stability control). If you let off the throttle when it shuts down the drive, you will go nowhere. If you keep the pedal depressed, it will try again and eventually find the proper combination of power and brakes to get you moving.
Some have reported overheating of some system in the car (which one was uncertain), but that was in summer on a steep dirt road. They may also have not been keeping the accel. pedal depressed. There was a lot of discussion about that. No conclusions were reached, of course.
There were several threads about driving in snow. Most report nothing special except as noted above the traction control system will not allow the wheels to spin wildly.
How ever this new model of the GenII does allow some slippage in the traction control system to allow forward movement on slipply conditions.
Check Priuschat...
VSC is an application of the ABS and throttle control. It's primary purpose is to keep you driving in the intended direction when on the verge of going out of control. It's of no use when stopped
Traction control is different entirely. It also is an application of the ABS but it's intended to keep one wheel from overspinning in relation to the other one. This would be only on the front ( drive ) wheels. When Trac senses a significant difference in the spin ratios between the left and right wheels it will apply the ABS to brake the overspinning wheel.
NOW the dealership is DEMANDING that I pay for the part upfront. I guess Toyota pockets my money and sends the part, whenever.
NO I WOULD NOT BUY AGAIN.
I am sure most of us would be very interested in you being more specific about what happened.
Have you ever tried using another dealer :confuse:
However, even a casual review of accident report statistics show that driver confidence in doing without them is misplaced. Most people, including me, just won't put on chains for a "short hop" to the market, and that is when disaster often strikes.
As with most bothersome safety precautions, it's hardly worth your life, or that of a family member, especially in areas of the country where lots of snow and ice are the norm, not the exception. Just chat up any State Policeman or Highway Patrol officer...
All that said, I have owned several cars and trucks I found problematic in winter driving, even with snow tires or chains. So hardly something the Prius alone displays.
Four "proper" or "competent" all weather tires, such as Nokian WR, will cost $400 - $600. One accident will cost a lot more! If you escape with your life.
The stock tires on a number of different vehicles should not be used in winter. The Prius is one of them, along with the RX-8 and others.
I'm putting Nokian WRs on my Prius as soon as I get it. Don't care if the stock tires aren't worn. It isn't worth the risk! The Nokians will stay on year round.
When I lived in Maine, I kept an extra set of wheels, on which I had snow tires, and at the end of the season, changed them out. Most people there did. At least those of us who lived out in the sticks, lol.
In an accident, even if neither party is totally at fault, even some percentage of "fault" means increased insurance rates, especially if they find out you are driving in the snow and ice without proper equipment. And that is totally fair.
Any FWD car is pretty good in snow, even a Prius. And FWD car is especially good if you put snow tires on all four wheels. Now if you are in a really bad winter area use studded snow tires.
Now if you want to try the absolute worst car in snow and ice get a manual shift 1970 odlsmobile 442 with anti-spin ( old name for antilock /traction control). It was RWD had a 455 cubic inch engine with 365 horsepower and so much torque 440 ft-lbs, it would spin the wheel when you slowly let out the clutch. Compared to any other car it is absolutely without a doubt the worst; especially with summer performance tires.
Cheers YOMV the opinion express above was mine,
MidCow
That is just NOT true. I will take a RWD vehicle over a FWD in snow any day of the winter. I did most of my first 10 years of Alaska winter driving with a Datsun RWD PU and a Dodge RWD van. My first FWD car was a 1973 Subaru and it was worthless in snow deeper than 4 inches. At the time only Saab made a good FWD snow vehicle. My 1978 Honda Accord was not much better than the Subaru. The very best vehicle for getting around in snow was the old RWD VW Bug. I went through snow a foot deep with highway tires in that Bug. If it was not impossible to keep warm at 20 below I would have kept driving it. After 37 years of snow and ice driving, I prefer a 4X4 Chevy PU or Suburban.
Just a wild guess, I'd say 50% driver experience, 25% tires, 25% car itself. My hat's off to anyone who can get a light RWD pickup truck through the snow.
If I had a Prius, I'd run FOUR snow tires on it and very slightly lower tire pressure.
I will have to ascede to your years of driving experience, I have only been driving since 1963 and in my limited experince RWD sucked in snow and ice.
Now if you didn't have snow tires and a if you had a very low ground clearance then maybe just maybe a specific FWD would have more problems than a specifc RWD. But itill contend for most cars and for most people, a FWD does much much better than a RWD in the snow and ice. The funniest to see are AWD or 4WD they can get going better and therefore they drive faster, but all cars stop the same or DON'T.
I think more in part is what are host, Mr. Shiftright said "Just a wild guess, I'd say 50% driver experience, 25% tires, 25% car itself. My hat's off to anyone who can get a light RWD pickup truck through the snow." I would chnge the percentages somewhat, I don't think drivier experience is that big of factor maybe 1/3 (33%). If Mr. Shiftright gives hats off to a RWD pickup driver , I would give hats off to a 60s mucle car driver that could do the same; I had a 1970 Oldsmobile 442, but any of those vintage cars would do.
The absolute best car I had for getting around in the snow was a 1970 Audi LS 5-speed , 5 cylinder, FWD. Would drive up snow and ice covered hills when other cars were in the ditch. However, the Audi mechanics knew me by first name since I visited them almost weekly.
Lately I haven't e countered any snow or ice problems either FWD or RWD, but then there isn't any snow or ice here.
MidCow
Is you name like "sticker shock" ?
I mean, getting stuck in the snow with the car refusing to move at all - because the computer is preventing it - seems a bit frustrating to me... :sick:
Some posts have claimed that Toyota changed the Prius to allow some wheel movement in these situations, but I have never seen justification for those claims.
But your problem is REAL, no doubt about that....question is, what can one do? Better tires, maybe "charging" a hill, maybe reversing the car before going forward again, etc.
For the 2006 models and later this changed.
For the 2006 models and later this changed.
would you know what they changed?
assuming it was software only, perhaps a programming change is available for the earlier models? i'm thinking however, that the modules associated with these functions also changed and a reprogramming isn't all that would be required to upgrade the older units.
Whereas in the past on a slippery climb the Trac would keep the vehicle from spinning out of control but also wouldn't allow any forward movement. Now the spinning is kept to a minimum but forward motion is allowed.
I can't speak for the older models since I don't know if it's just software or might also be mechanical.
MidCow
What is the source of your info?
Name me one or two or any RWD rear engine cars. You are not talking traditional cars or trucks. What are you driving a Carrera 4 ?
90-95% of cars have the engine in the front. A lot of the traditional cars are now FWD probalby around 2/3s. Sport cars: BMW, Lexus, Infinti are front engine RWD and do not get around very well in the snow.
Yes, if you gat a truck or car and load the trunk with a lot of weight that RWD will work in the snow. Especailly with studded snow tires.
Oh yeah I know FWD is not good for dirivng and traction. Had a GSR Integra with CAT back and cold air intake and it was awesome for FWD. But yes I will agree , I have an S2000 RWD that has awesome handling.
Cheers,
MidCow
Hmmm, I would like to hear from some owners who have gotten out of snow in their 2006 Prius before I render judgement. For one thing, having an engineer say they put in a change doesn't mean that the change will work sufficiently or correctly to fix the problem. Such a determination requires test results under actual conditions.
Therefore...
What are the actual, documented tests, that are being cited that say they are "difficult" in snow :confuse:
I consider owner's reports on this forum to be documentation. It was here that I first read of the "immobility" problem in snow with the Gen 2 Prius. I haven't seen posts indicating that the problem is fixed.
BTW, if was this 2006 modification a software change? Maybe the Prius can be flashed to correct the issue?
If it is on the Prius chat then there probably is a problem. But with high mileage , hard skinny tires no car would go well in the snow.
The Prius chat people that are having problems, probably haven't put on snow tires? Are they having problems in snow with snow tires ?
Cheers,
MidCow
I'm glad these forums exist because I was seriously thinking about buying a Prius. My mother had two Honda Insights and she loved them. With the problems I've read about in here about the Prius I think I'm going to go with a more conventional vehicle. Gas mileage is important but I need something that I or my amatuer mechanic can do some of the repairs to.
Hopefully Toyota will continue to work out the bugs. The brake problems I've read about were the deal-breaker.
Supposedly this traction control system does not work the same as on regular cars. I'm just passing on second-hand info, I don't have a clue. I would like to try a Prius in the snow however to see what's what and if driver skills really is the problem or not.
Reading between the lines, I would say that the HSD system has a snow/ice traction control bug.
And another commnet the 50/50 weight is being touted for the wrong reasons. 50/50 is considered ideal for a true sports car in good weather conditions. 50% of the weight on the RWD and 50% on the steering.
For traction you want more on the drive wheeels. Actuallly most front wheel drive are 60% on front wheels . However, this does increase wear on those wheels and makes steering heavier. That is why there is so much to od about i4 versus V6 in handling. with I$ theres is close to 50/50% weight distirbutuion. The auto manufacturers changes nothing add the additional weight of the v6 and the steering is heavier.
If you are wealthy , I understand the ideal snow car is a Carrera 4 with Blizzacks on all four wheels.
Studded snow tires last resort, unless wehater conditions really really bad. The studs tearr up everything have bad handling excpet on ice and return poor mileage. Almost as bad as snow chains. Glad I don't deal with either naymore.
MidCow
The problem arises when the Prius is stuck in the snow. On conventional cars, one can "rock" the vehicle back and forth to get the car moving again. The 2004-2005 Prius (at least) would not allow the wheels to spin in this situation, resulting in the car just sitting there, dead as a doornail. There was nothing mechanically wrong - but the computer would not let the driver engage the wheels.
The situation would not come up unless the Prius got stuck. You simply never encountered the proper conditions.
Some people are posting that the 2006 Prius corrects this problem, but so for no one has posted any personal experiences. Perhaps next winter...
Seems most would prefer not getting out, to actually getting themselves unstuck! :P
Your are absolutely right Terry and you can accomplish this is you plan ahaead and carry the sand , cardboard, or wood plank with you.
But what hapens if you don't have any of those items on board, either a freak or unexpected ice/storm comes up or you just didn't plan ahead and put the supplies in your vehicle. What do you do?
That is why you rock a card back and forth!
Might be too far or too cold to walk!
good luck,
MidCow