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Land Rover LR3

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  • grommetgrommet Posts: 445
    Quote: "Frankly, I wouldn't own a vehicle up here in NH, without at least heated seats and headlamp washers."

    I'm not sure the LR3 has heated headlight washer jets. If it does, they don't advertise it in the Cold Climate Package: "heated front windshield, heated front and second-row seats (two level), and heated windshield washer jets" (Heated mirrors are included even without the package.)

    Regarding the radar detector interference with the heated windshield... we'll just have to wait until Valentine One owners start doing some field testing and post their results. ;) No guarantee it'll be as interference free as you have experienced in your Discovery.
  • davidc1davidc1 Posts: 168
    ypshan, the dealer is Englewood. I hear Prestige Lexus is more agressive but Englewood was much closer and I liked the atmosphere.
  • "I think people believe having a Lexus as your Suv gives you a license to tailgate and cut people off." Yet you speak of how drivers of other "elite" brands "part the seas" for you. Maybe it is you who is aggressive and tailgating or maybe it is the other drivers who realize that you are driving an older less advanced vehicle.

    Regarding snob appeal...in a Discovery? Come on now, I live in one of those "elite" communities in Southern California and no one sees the Discovery as bringing snob appeal to the table.

    There is a great deal of interest here in the LR3, by a lot of Lexus Mommies but there is an ongoing concern about the quality of the product. There are many stories about both Land Rover/Range Rover quality and then add Jaguar in to the mix and I hope you can see some concerns.

    By the way, Lexus does not correlate with nouveau riche it actually correlates with quality. But, hey, at least you got a Starbucks while signing your papers!
  • davidc1davidc1 Posts: 168
    Well said. Quality concerns are real. I do not want my wife stranded on a highway with a baby. If LR3 proves reliable in a couple of years, I'll give it a try.
  • grommetgrommet Posts: 445
    Quote: "I do not want my wife stranded on a highway with a baby."

    How many modern vehicles really just "stop working" while driving? You'd be more likely to get a flat tire or be in an accident. Yes, even in the old Discovery. Just barely. ;)
  • davidc1davidc1 Posts: 168
    Yes. Consider it a figure of speach. But you know what I am talking about. People pay for track record and it isn't there for LR, yet.
  • That is a key point. No track record on any vehicle is a concern, double that when it is on a brand that is known for having quality issues.

    In the most recent JD Powers reliability study Lexus rated as by far the most reliable with 162 problems per 100 vehicles. On a side note, that is the 10th straight year Lexus has been named the leader in reliability. Land Rover came in last, yes last with 472 problems per 100 vehicles.

    So, this plays heavily into decision making both for safety as well as convenience. We currently have a 2001 Lexus LX470 and truly wanted to get into the LR3 due to some conveniences (3rd row as a key issue), however we have decided upon a 2005 LX470 as it seesm to be much more refined and the quality concerns not as much an issue.

    This is not saying that the LR3 will not blow everyone away with being a highly reliable vehicle and I hope it is. Nor is this saying that all Lexus vehicles are problem free, but you need to realistically play the averages.

    On top of that, we negotiated an unbelievable deal on the LX. Our lease payment is within $10 bucks of the Land Rover HSE. (apples to apples).
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Talked to one of our neighbors about the LR3. They formerly leased a Discovery SE7. They now own a Toyota Landcruiser.

    Boy, did I get an earful. They had the Discovery for 42 months and during that time had 13 unscheduled trips or tows to the dealership for mechanical or other problems. They were without the vehicle for over one week on 4 occasions, nearly 4 weeks on one (full transmission and drive train replacement). The reason they could be so specific regarding their experience is that they have a lawsuit pending with Land Rover. The dealership refused to allow them to terminate their lease early. Now, after going to court, Land Rover North America has offered a 50% rebate on their lease payments ($10,000 +/-), plus attorneys fees.

    Fortunately, they were never stranded in the dark of night in a shady neighborhood. But they ended up renting a minivan for two consecutive years to go to their Hilton Head vacation home while the Discovery was in the shop. Now if that isn't degrading!

    I still think the LR3 is a very interesting vehicle, but after hearing their experience, I think I'll second the notion of letting the dust settle for a year or so to see how it holds up.
  • ypshanypshan Posts: 103
    Not to add to the horror story, I was talking to a friend who's in the high-end body shop business. They repair all kind of luxury cars. E.g. MB, Bentley, Jaguar, BMW, Lexus, Porsche etc.

    He told me that it's impossible to get body parts for Land Rover. He uses the dealership to order parts but still a very long wait for everything. Many parts have to come from UK and sometimes UK doesn't have them in stock. The top record of how long a car stay in the body shop was a Land Rover that lasted for almost a year!

    The moral of the story is that you better not get into an accident. Otherwise, the 30-day insurance loaner is not going to be nearly enough.

    I am wondering if others have talked to their body shops and if the situation with getting parts from Land Rover is universal.
  • I currently own a 2004 Toyota 4Runner. It's a great vehicle, but lacks some aminities that I would like. I also trade vehicles frequently.
     I have test driven the LR3 on two occasions and found it to be an interesting vehicle, worthy of consideration. I have walked away from both experiences feeling that the suspension felt very soft. Is it that I am used to something firmer or is it really soft? Also is there any way to adjust it? Neither of the salespeople that I spoke with knew.
  • peeetepeeete Posts: 136
    My my I touched a nerve. A good deal of what I said was tounge in cheek. But no, it WAS the lexus mommymobiles that cut me off constantly, and that was when I was driving a sportscar. Lexus makes a fine product, but there is an attitude there that I find offensive. I like my Disco, and so does everyone I meet. Im sure the LR3 will engender the same response. 'nuff said.
  • I am going to take a chance. I put a deposit on an LR3 SE7 yesterday. The car will arrive today with the remaining items (wood trim, DVD, cross bars) to arrive and be installed by Wednesday. I know the Disco has had a horrible problem with quality in the past. I am a past owner. I also currently own a GX470. I must say it hasn't been a bed of roses either.

    We had a shaking steering wheel and a drone between 55 and 65 for well over a year until Lexus came out with the fix. For a Lexus vehicle this was unacceptable. It took numerous trips and two different dealers to get it fixed. There were a few other small things, but overall a great experience. If it had a better third row configuration, I'd be a lock to roll into a 2005. But, we really need more flexibility with three kids. The hideaway third row is a must have for us. The dark interior, rubber mats - all pluses when gold fish, juice and candy get in places one can't even figure how it got there in most cases.

    I am willing to take a chance and believe that Ford has taken the past issues into consideration. They've also invested $1 Billion into the new platform. The PAG has been a loser for Ford for some time mainly due to LR. They have to turn it around at some point. Also, Ford negotiated a new labor contract with the workers at the main LR plant in the UK. It called for wage reductions while increasing productivity and quality control. I recognize that this means little in the real world when you get stranded out in the middle of nowhere. But it is enough for me to take a chance. I took a chance on the GX when it first came out, but it's a Toyota - not much risk there. I will admit there is a good amount of risk with the LR3, but willing to take that chance for more flexibility. Also, GX470s are a dime a dozen in my neighborhood. It will be refreshing to be different, if even for a few months.

    I'll be the first to tell you if things go south. Stay tuned.
  • grommetgrommet Posts: 445
    Congratulations on your decision. LR is betting big on this new platform and vehicle. I also expect far better reliability than history shows... design & build is already far better than the previous vehicle. Let's hope the 4 year warranty is mainly used for maintenace.

    I have yet to see the "official" Land Rover kit DVD. You'll need to tell us how it integrates -- if at all -- with the stereo head unit. (At the very least, I assume you'll be able to optionally send the audio through the speakers, and -- on the HSE -- the rear headphone jacks/controls. But what button do you press on the head unit?)

    Did you get any discount? ;-)
  • xchicagoan5 I have to agree with your message. I, too, hope that LR does it right this time in terms of quality. I have heard a number of gripes about the GX470 and it seems, to me, that Lexus wanted to get a mid-level lux SUV out there as quickly as possible and did not do all their homework.

    I wish you great success with the vehicle as I will happily consider a LR3 once they either work out the kinks or prove that their reliability record is greatly improved.

    Happy Driving!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "Also, Ford negotiated a new labor contract with the workers at the main LR plant in the UK. It called for wage reductions while increasing productivity and quality control.'

    I suspect Ford had good business reasons for negotiating wage reductions, but I don't think I'd put wage reductions in the same sentence as incresing productivity and quality control.

    I've gone full circle on this and am now leaning towards the $41k MDX. The $45k Lexus was a sleeper to drive and is dysfunctional with respect to the third row. The LR3 would be a nice $45k vehicle, but at $55k the way I would want it equiped, it's value is questionable. The $47k (OSD) XC90 V8 is an unknown quantity, but it's third row is not much better than the Lexus. And nothing by BMW, Mercedes, Porsche or Infiniti meets our "utility" needs as well as the Acura.

    Another round of test drives is in order, and any suggestions or comments would be appreciated. I know the Acura can't hold a candle to the LR3 in off-road ability, but we haven't taken our Trooper through any streams in 5 years+. Snow, rain and dirt roads are real considerations, logging trails probably aren't.
  • grommetgrommet Posts: 445
    The Acura MDX is a decent value if you don't need more than kids in 3rd row, don't want real off-road ability and don't need to tow massive trailers. It's a little dated and bland, but is still competitive; Acura tries to add a few features each year. Neighbor bought a loaded discounted '05 MDX Touring a few weeks ago. It's a safe bet and has plenty of gadgets for the folks that enjoy that. If I was in this market, I'd probably get an Explorer or equivalent for even less money. ;)
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Comments appreciated. I agree that the MDX is inferior to the LR3 in terms of third row room, off-road ability, towing and uniqueness. I'd put it above the LR3 relative to on-road handling, fit and finish (paint & interior materials), fuel efficiency, reliability (anticipated), and re-sale value.

    On the Ford Explorer, however, I'd rather keep our 9 year old Isuzu Trooper than get one of those. IMHO, the Explorer is the epitome of everything that is wrong with the domestic manufacturers. Crappy fit and finish, poor reliability, unsafe to drive, horrible depreciation, etc. Am I missing any redeeming characteristics other than when they do break, an orangutan can fix them? :-)
  • grommetgrommet Posts: 445
    Two neighbors both have 2004 Explorers... for about a year. Nothing glaringly bad about them; didn't notice bad fit and finish. Is it possible the newer design is far better than the old? Don't they still sell at least 30K of these a month? Anyway, my anecdotal evidence doesn't count.

    Of course depreciation is bad... anyone can get a new Explorer almost free with rebate and 0% financing. :-)

    On a side note, I personally like the road ride of the LR3 better than the MDX... even with it's obvious additional heft.
  • tdo123tdo123 Posts: 102
    Just to give my two cents, I too have now gone to play in an LR3. I am 6'1 and I had more than enough head room in the 3 row. Plenty of space for my 5 year old. :)

    This is a crazy jump for me. I am a 5 time Lexus buyer and currently an in a LS430. I was waiting for the new Lx470 to arrive, but that might not EVER happen.

    So I went to the LR3. It is fantastic. The HSE has everything that I love. The "cockpit" type of driving environment is very inviting to a driver. Lots of gadgets also. I am always concerned with reliability, but now I am more so questioning service. Whenever I have a problem to day, Lexus will come get my car or do a loaner, wash it, fresh coffee, yada yada yada. Not a need, but always nice to know it is there.

    Here is another funny one to show you how crazy I am. A guy in my office just traded in his GX470 for a VW Toureg with a V8. I must admit, it is a fantastic vehicle. I hear it can actually perform better off road than a LR Discovery (no I don't mention the LR3). They car is as smooth and fast as my LS and has lots of gadgets. I don't expects a dealer that is selling to Jetta buyers will know how to cater to the 50+ car market, but I thought I would through this out there to see if anyone has thought of comparing the VW.
  • My father, a crusty old lobsterman, use to say that "these nouveaus will buy anything". Sure the LR3 is a great car. But in the low 40s. Wait six months and that will be the price. Unfortunately, the Section 179 tax break is partially going away now so paying sticker in '04 may be as good as it gets if you are going to claim the 6000 pound GVW tax deal. (I can still recall the madness when MB brought out the ML line and people were paying 5K over sticker for what turned out to be a piece of German junk.).
  • grommetgrommet Posts: 445
    Yes, Touareg (and Porsche Cayenne) are true competitors... if you start including less-utility 5 seat SUVs in the mix. It has real off-road ability, and it almost weighs as much as LR3. ;) It also has an excellent interior (a little closer to Range Rover)... though it's not exactly my style.

    If Lexus service hand-holding is important to you, you will be disappointed with virtually any other brand... luxury or not.
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    You seem to have missed that the Explorer is one of Consumer Reports recommended vehicles for safety and reliability. If you can show where it is actually rated in any published study as having poor reliability or safety I'd like to see it. If I remember correctly your nine year old Trooper was not recommended by CR.
     If the Explorer was unreliable or unsafe it would not continue to be the best selling SUV for over 12 years. I for one do not feel the American consumer is that dumb.
     
     Also, given the level of technical sophistication in the electronics of all vehicles today, I don't think the Orangutan comment holds any water either. Fixing a domestic is just as much of a challenge as fixing an import. All manufacturers selling vehicles in the US get their techs from the same sources and all have a mix of excellent, good, marginal, and poor techs. Getting good techs is a problem facing the entire industry right now.
     About the only statement that was accurate was regarding resale, Ford has not taken the steps to hold residual values until this last year.
  • Re: Switch-A-ROO ???

    Did I just get hit with a switch-a-roo into a lemon LR3 at a Northern California LR dealer?

    My wife and I had let our guards down because we felt comfortable at a Land Rover dealership. We had selected a fully loaded LR3 SE7 by the front entrance and were in the middle of drawing up a purchase contract with the salesman. Suddenly we were surprised by a switch-a-roo tactic only seen at lesser marquee dealerships.

    I saw the car we are drawing the contact on being driven away, so I asked how many miles were on the car. I was told: "You're not buying this car. It has been sold earlier. By the way, if you want to know, it has 7 miles.”

    We were later presented with another car with the same options, but with 397 miles on it, driven by owner of the dealership. We were presented with a contract for the car without being asked if it was acceptable. . This would leave a bitter taste in any customer regardless if they are spending $5 or $50,000.

    Of course the dealership had the same story that the car we wanted had been sold earlier by another sales person. However, prior to drawing up the original purchase contract, there were 2 or 3 full conference of the floor personnel regarding some pricing and titling issues. They all knew we were looking at the car sitting by the front window of the dealership. What are the chances they really did not know the car was sold???

    I know I should have walked away, but we bought and paid for the car as that is the only fully loaded LR3 SE7 in silver and black.

    That was 4 days ago. The car is still being detailed to deliver to us. So I was getting suspicious and talked to the mechanic working on the car. He said they just received a DVD for upgrading some software on the control management system. Later I talked to the Service Department manager and she said they are programming some configuration on the vehicle and that all vehicles go through this procedure. I called 3 other dealers to see if this is in fact turn and their service department only mentioned that the pre-delivery only involves inspection and detailing.

    Did I just buy a lemon? Only time will tell. Let's see if they can deliver the vehicle as promised. I will up date on the status of the car.

    Moral of the story is don't let your guards down and ask all detail questions before hand.
  • grommetgrommet Posts: 445
    That's a bizarre story. It's possible they were just clueless and ended up selling you another untitled LR3 (that wasn't originally intended to be sold) to save face. But they should have come clean either way. They implicitly told you they were going to sell you the specific car by the window? They did tell you about the "change" before they presented you with the contract, correct? I would have walked out just because I don't like idiots. ;)

    One of the dealers around here took a few days to get the LR3s ready for the first few sales, too. Not sure what is involved; it might have been simple lack of manpower. But since your LR3 was already prepped, didn't they just need to detail and clean it up?

    I suggest you ask the centre manager what the heck is going on if you really do care... and express your issues with your buy experience. You didn't drive the car away yet. What's venting in here going to do?

    Anyway, if you do take delivery... your chances of having a "Lemon" is no worse or better than anyone. These were all manufactured around the same time, and in the same plant. :)
  • Dear LR3 Forum readers,

    I can't help but get the sense of lots of negativity and skepticism on this board. Understandably since you guys haven't gotten to hear from any real life owners. So here for what looks like one of the first times is a real life owner of a 2005 fully loaded LR3 SE.

    Ok here is some quick info on my car:
    Dealer purchased from: Land Rover San Antonio in Texas
    Price: Just above $51,500.00
    Base Line: Silver / Alpaca Land Rover LR3 SE
    Packages:
    Navigation
    Third Row Seating
    Lighting Package
    Rear Air Control
    Stuff I added:
    Rubber Mats
    Rear Cargo Mat
    Off Road Driving Lights
    Sill Plates
    Door Panel Protectors
    Rear DVD System

    My Review so far...
    I have had two Land Rovers in my life time. I had a 1992 Range Rover and a 1996 Discovery. The Range Rover was a good solid car and the Discovery was not to bad either except for some hard weeks spent in the dealership fixing faulty stuff. But I can attest that the LR3 is a completely different vehicle.
    Believe me I was just as skeptical as some of you are about jumping into it. I needed an SUV that could handle some real off-roading thrown at it from the ranches but also be my daily driver in the city. No car could ever really do this like a Land Rover could. The LR3 is incredible...It drives down the highway at 100 mph like a sports sedan and doesn't wander around like the Discovery did. Off Road it crawls rocks with just as good balance as the discovery if not better. But the best part is its ride. Its so soft on passengers over harsh bumps. Its weight is immense but you really don't notice unless you drive through puddles at speed because you just can't get this thing to hydroplane. Anyway...the interior is very tight. No rattles what so ever. Some of you complain because it doesn't have any plush wood. To me the car seems very utilitarian. It has only useful things. Everything is over engineered. One things that just still blown me away is the rear door. The discovery had what I thought was a better design with the barn door. The split design is really nice. You can also really stand on the rear tail gate to gain access to the roof. I don't know what else to say because I have only had the car a week driven 300 miles and gone off roading once. The looks of the LR3 are really sharp in my opinion. So if you are worried about being an innovator purchaser on this car I can safely recommend that this car is worth the money. Ill answer any questions I can about the car that I didn't list here.

    Regards,
    Nomad
  • Dear LR3 Forum readers,

    I have recently had the chance to drive the Landrover Discovery3, Range Rover, and Defender all on the same day in some very muddy conditions in the UK. The Discovery was far superior off road. Our instructors who had never driven the Discovery before were impressed. One of them also said that the on-road ride was better than the Range Rover and I would agree with that.

    The link below gives details of an award won in Popular Science Magazine for "leading car technology".

    Here in the UK the Discovery has already been voted 4*4 of the year in a leading 4*4 magazine as well with a car magazine. It was also just voted Scotish 4*4 of the year as well.

    I get mine in two weeks and cant wait!!

    No discounts here either and there is already a 5 month waiting list. Get your orders in as this car will be popular in Europe.

    Regards

    Peter

    http://www.wsmv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2554640
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,252
    Dear LR3 Forum readers,

    Two positive reviews by two new members - almost looks like guerilla marketing going on :-)

    From last summer's JD Power press, it sounds like Land Rover may deserve the accolades - at least all trends are upward.

    Anyone else lurking who'd like to report on their new LR3?

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • gw123gw123 Posts: 64
    Was this dealership located in Redwood City?
  • ypshanypshan Posts: 103
    Good post. Please keep us posted on your experience.

    Did you pay MSRP?

    Also how does the interior/exterior combination look? In general, the designers don't like to mix silver with yellowish interior. Do you feel the color combo you have look 'normal'?
  • As far as what I paid I just paid exactly MSRP. I wasn't going to nickle and dime the dealership. They noticed my fairness and went out of there way to try to get my a higher bid for my trade in.
    The color combo is great in my opinion. I think its a very natural feel especially for the land rover. The leather in the SE is very rugged which I perfer above the softer leather of the HSE. I have dogs which job all over the seat. The leather doesn't show a single scratch but I assume the black might so thats why I didn't get it. The silver exterior is really sharp I think but there is a better reason why I got it. I needed a color that wouldn't show dirt as much. I didn't much care for the gold color and all the others were to dark. The silver hides scratches well and also looks cleaner when covered in dust compared to a darker color. If I were just driving in the city I would have gotten black or that beautiful dark silver.
    So far the car has been a delight. I'm not one to care about this but the car turns heads. More importantly though there has been just terrential rains in San Antonio these past few days. The car just as all my land rovers gave an impressive sence of security. Like I said in my previous post it just will not hydroplane. But if you are about to drive throug any good size puddle get your finger ready on the wipers because most of the splash goes forward, up, and all over the windshield. I assume this is becasue there is no much fender in fron of the wheel. Another thing I am considering is mud flaps. The rear tires toss water and anything up on the rear glass. I just figure I could avoid hours cleaning the car if I had them. Oh and another thing...the voice command system really does something and I use it for everything. I mean being able to say "Navigation Petrol Station" or "CD 2 Track 5" is really really sweet!!! Just one big pointer: The more you raise your voice the less its going to understand you. I have a slight Argentinian accent I am trying to get rid of and I have trouble saying petrol the way it wants. I the only thing I am missing is a website forum of LR3 owners. I guess it will build once more people own the car.

    Cheers,
    Nomad
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