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Land Rover LR3

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Comments

  • grommetgrommet Member Posts: 445
    I can verify the LR3 holds a front facing Britax Marathon seat on the 2nd row side seat along with a rear facing Britax Advantage seat in the middle without any conflict. And an adult can sit comfortably in the empty 2nd row side seat... so the 3rd row can be accessed without removing the child seats. Depending on child seat design, your mileage will vary.
  • sam818sam818 Member Posts: 127
    I have the heated windshield on my 04 Range rover, and Yes you can see them , but NO they are not an issue either with light reflecting or obstructing view in any way. They are quite subtle.
  • gunnarpgunnarp Member Posts: 4
    Sorry to disappoint some of you re:"I do not want my wife stranded on a highway with a baby."

    Our 03 Discovery did exactly that, MANY TIMES! There was always a problem with the vehicle, most of the time involving some electrical problem. The last problem: stopped at a Starbucks (we live in one of those snobby neighborhoods in So. Cal.), came back, started the engine, and the M and S lights in the panel started blinking. My wife checked the manual (I love her!!!) and noticed that if this condition appear you should take the vehicle to a dealer. Instead, she tried to drive home (closer to where she was) and the thing completely loss power in the middle of a busy freeway. She and the baby were in the car. Turned everything off and then back on. Same result. Eventually she made it to safety and we took the car to the dealer. Their answer? The battery is low. Go figure. They replaced the battery and we had the same (and many other problems) at least once a week. We were on a first name baisis with the tow-truck drivers at Land Rover Recovery.
    We finally sold the problem and got an Infiniti crossover (we owned Infiniti's in the past and are very happy with them). No, we can't go off road, but we have a QX4 (older Infiniti) as a third car and makes it to the same places we used to take our Discovery. By the way, this was NOT our first Land Rover; we just didn't learn the first time. So,... to all Land Rover (and specially the LR3 owners): I sincerely wish you GOOD LUCK! As for us,... we will wait a few years before we even look at the LR3, and this time we WILL read all consumer reviews if we decide to go LR again (we knew about issues with the Discovery, but because it looked "trendy" I decided to ignore them: shame on me!
    By the way. The dealer: Land Rover Encino (stay away from them). As far as LRNA, don't waste your time; they are no help at all and are always on the side of the dealer.
    Last, to answer the question: "How many modern vehicles really just 'stop working' while driving?" Well, only one that I know of: Land Rover Discovery 03s
  • gw123gw123 Member Posts: 64
    Thanks all for the replies. I did stop by the dealer and saw that the lines will not be a problem. Now just waiting for the LR3 to come in. Seems like you need to get a loaded SE if you want Nav for now, at least in NorCal.
  • grommetgrommet Member Posts: 445
    Did you use the lemon law in California? It's a slam dunk full vehicle replacement or money back (minus mileage) if you had these significant problems the first year... or was this after the first year?

    Anyway, we should probably move any more Disco venting to the Discovery forum. :)
  • ypshanypshan Member Posts: 103
    gunnarp,

    Thanks for the post. Your comment on LRNA being no help bothers me. Could you give us one or two examples?

    Lexus NA offered to pay for half of the costs to replace my A/C system 1 year after the warranty expired on the LS400 that I used to own. The dealership picked up another one fourth so I only paid 25% for a new A/C system. They told me that they feel bad about A/C only lasted for 5 years. In their estimate, it should have lasted a lot longer.

    I guess I shouldn't expect similar treatment from LRNA or the LR dealership...
  • sontobsontob Member Posts: 13
    centralcoaster

    I am curious about the ipod auxillary jack in the HSE that you mentioned. I have grown quite fond of the convenience and ability to have access to over 1000 songs within arms reach in my car and not shuffle cd's in and out of the disc changer.

    I currently use the cassette deck in my Passat to connect to my ipod, which then plays the ipod's songs through the car's speakers. But, the LR3 does not come with a cassette deck, as I don't think any automobiles are manufactured with cassette decks anymore, so I am wondering if the auxillary jack connects to the speaker system in the LR3 so as to play your songs on your ipod through the sound system or does it just keep your ipod charged?
  • grommetgrommet Member Posts: 445
    "Aux Input" is on the back of the center console on both SE and HSE stereos. 3.5mm mini-stereo jack. Plug anything that outputs audio into it: XM Radio Roady, Nomad Zen Touch, iPod, vintage Walkman, Gameboy, etc.

    FYI: The LR3 6-disc changer does play MP3 encoded audio files on data CD... so you can encode multiple CDs or track compilations onto 700MB discs you can put in the changer. Not as much as a hard drive, but not bad.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Wow! The guy wrote an 8 paragraph love letter to an LR3 for which he paid full list. Not unrelated, today's Barrons reports that we Americans spend on average $1.04 for every $1 we earn and it is beginning to catch up with us.
  • ajn999ajn999 Member Posts: 16
    I am trading my 03 Range Rover in for a new LR3.
    I was able to get $500 off sticker on the LR3 but the dealer won't budge past $49,000 for the Range Rover trade though. I am a little concerned about the gas mileage. I averaged 15.6 mpg on the Range Rover which I was always happy with but have read some very low mpg figures on the new LR3. Does anyone have any experience yet?
    I am adding the rear DVD player ($2000) and XM
    satelite ($350) to the base model with the rear seat package. The Range Rover has been the best car/truck I have ever owned and I never had any reliability problems others have encountered. I drove the LR3 and decided it was not worth paying
    $20,000 extra for some fancy wood trim. Besides, the 3rd seat is a winner with the kids and it drives just as nice.
  • wojowojo Member Posts: 2
    thinking of buying an LR3,how was your 400 mile trip?any problems?change in what you feel about the LR3?
  • smarticussmarticus Member Posts: 37
    After a week with the Discovery 3 (in the UK they are still known as Discovery's) we are hugely impressed by this vehicle's abilities. We have owned every Land Rover Discovery to date and recently owned a new style Range Rover, and the Discovery 3 is light years ahead of every one of those. This car has superb road manners, pulls like a train, corners like a train and is about as heavy as a train. Everyone who we have taken for a drive has come away enthusing about the space, comfort, command position and style of the vehicle. Land Rover & Ford could not afford to get this one wrong, and they certainly have succedeed here. Stop worrying about reliability you lot, the DNA of this vehicle is pure 21st century, all the unreliability issues were in previous generation landrover vehicles with 1960'S engineering, with 1970's electronics put together with people born in the 1980's trying to powers 1990's accessories (that could all still get places that no other road going vehicle had any right to get to. Take my word for it - order one now and get ahead of the queues that will certainly be forming once people catch on to just how good this vehicle really is...Makes an X5 look like a shopping market trolley !
  • ypshanypshan Member Posts: 103
    If you have Speed Channel, it's on this week.

    If you miss the TV, transcript can also be found below:
    http://www.pbs.org/mpt/motorweek/search.shtml

    0-60 tested to be 8.0 sec. as factory stated.

    Handling didn't get high remarks. "With a maximum weight of almost 5,800 pounds, and a tall center of gravity, the LR3 is no sports car. Front end push is heavy, and there's plenty of body roll."

    Comfort level is not quite at the level of the 'top dog' Range Rover but close.

    I disagree with their 3rd row seats comment. I am 6' 1" and my head barely touches the roof when I sit in the 3rd row. That's better than many luxury SUVs in the segment. I would not want to sit in them for a long time though.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    While I think you could sell your '03 RR all day for at least 49K, I think the dealer has got you on this one. He knows that if you do sell the RR yourself, you will owe sales tax on the LR3 for the whole amount. That will be roughly $2500-3500 depending on where you live , which will negate any savings. The only way around this would be to wait a year or so. The trade in value would fall by 8K or so AND the real world cost of an LR3 could also be down. At that time he wouldn't have you over the sales tax barrel.
  • backayardbackayard Member Posts: 7
    After a 400 mile round-trip drive, we are more convinced that we made the right decision to get the LR3. The highway ride & drive was amazing. We felt safe & secure was we drove at night in the rain and on the return trip home in ideal conditions we cruised along, gliding past all of the SUV-wannabees and other traffic with ease.

    The commanding view and ultra-quiet cabin made the drive easy and relaxing. Even at 90+mph, the LR3 was smooth, quiet, and rock-steady. We make a 400 mile round-trip regularly to visit family. The LR3 makes this frequent trip much easier. Instead of driving 2 cars to accomodate the entire family, we saved gas by piloting the LR3 with everyone safely aboard. Loading and unloading our luggage, stroller, shopping bags, etc. was easy and convenient.

    Of course the LR3 is a truck, so I do not expect it to drive like my BMW, but on the country roads, over hill & dale, across bridges, over railroad tracks, and on gravel roads the LR3 always went exactly where I pointed it, with minimum fuss. The LR3 provided the right stability and feedback on several s-curves & switchbacks. The BMW inspired transmission with 3 modes, including a manual mode, was delightful as it always chose the right gear. When using manual mode, the controls are intuitive and perfectly responsive.

    I also love the brakes... easy to modulate to a smooth stop, unlike these ridiculous brake-by-wire systems on the E-class and new 5-series. Everything in the LR3 is where it should be and the ergonomics, console & controls are very intuitive. We love the familiarity of radio dials, HVAC knobs, and other simple buttons.

    My wife, toddler and I have been planning a trip from Chicago to Houston to Louisiana back to Chicago. I finally agreed with my wife to take a 2,000 mile roadtrip (instead of flying), after driving the LR3 this weekend. The money we will save by not flying, will make up for the not-so-great gas mileage and the savings we might have incurred if we waited until the LR3 could be had below MSRP. Generally, I hate long roadtrips, but the LR3 is going to allow our little family to see more of America up close.

    Go check out the LR3, you will not be disappointed.
  • nomad232nomad232 Member Posts: 16
    Ok LR3 is treating me really well so far. Its been really ugly weather in my part of the country and I have felt so safe in the LR3. The only thing I have having the dealer fix is to have the wheel strightened. Its not a big deal but it bothers me...When I drive down the highway I have the wheel about 2 degrees to the left. If I try to hold it center the car will slowly drift to the right. I have never had a car that didn't do this to a certain extent. Anyone have this on their LR3 or have any suggjestions?
  • gxorlrgxorlr Member Posts: 16
    Not that I wish but hope yours is the only one with a fixable glitch. (may be alignment?) Anyway, I went to a dealer on 20th and they had around 10 SE on the lot. I got "we could do something on the SE" line. Frankly, I was not impressed with the LR3. Couldn't test drive as I walked in impromptu. I was one of the 5-6 people looking at LR3 but I saw no excitement or heard any praise. I did see people looking at the sticker and didn't seem excited. They had not a single HSE. Got me a "book" (brochure). I was told the driver seat on SE was memory but the "book" states otherwise. I would like to get LR3 but for the price and reputation I'm staying on the sideline this year. I have to decide between a 2004 or 2005 GX470! I find the 2004 GX470 slightly underpowered. 2005 GX470 is a 270 hsp but then again it will be $5k more vs. 2004. Well I will give myself the November wait and get into one in early December. For all you LR3 fans wish you all the best.
    Chase
  • reichowjrreichowjr Member Posts: 86
    I have been to my dealer several times checking out the LR3. I am 6' and found the 3rd row quite comfortable and very spacious. Its definitely an adult friendly row of seats.

    With all the conversation concerning the heated windshield in past posts I thought I should examine it again as that is the kind of thing that would really bother me while driving.

    What I found is that if your eyes focus on the windshield itself you can definitely see the lines in it. You would never do this while driving as you would loose the focus on the road ahead of you. When your focused on the road its impossible for me to see the lines. In my opinion its not an issue.

    My dealer has plenty of SE's available for sale at A plan pricing and is currently looking for a HSE for me. He indicated it could be 4 or 5 months before they can find one for me and thats fine with me.
  • grommetgrommet Member Posts: 445
    Does your dealer also participate in X plan (partner) pricing for LR3? Or are they only doing A plan (employee)?
  • centralcoastercentralcoaster Member Posts: 8
    as per grommet's post, the aux jack is easily accessed with a minijack....next i need to find a setup that will allow me to mount the ipod in some way rather than having it knocking about the cabin.
    you still have to plug it into the lighter to keep it charged.
    occasionally there is some puzzling feedback or electronic noise that sneaks in when i have the ipod plugged in. anyone else notice this? it is not always a problem.
    this is a step up, overall, from the cassette adapter, but i look forward to a day when there is a little cradle as oem that will accept the ipod and keep it charged.
    the sound system, by the way, in my lr3 is outstanding.
    and....did a mostly highway roadtrip this weekend and loved every minute of driving. averaged 17.5 mpg overall with 90% of time on freeway doing 80'ish.
    also discovered an interesting safety feature...had to stop quickly when encountering backed up traffic on the freeway and emergency blinkers started automatically upon applying brakes hard.
    and was surprised not to see even one other lr3 this weekend on sf bay area roads.
    centralcoaster
  • beachbumbeachbum Member Posts: 28
    Have any new owners of the SE noticed in the broucher and official web site that the driver's seat is an "8"-way power seat and the passenger is "6"-way power seat. My new SE has only six settings. It is missing the tilt control which rocks the seat cushion back and forth. It would be designated by the two horizontal arrows on the left of the bottom button. Mine is blank and does not offer this feature. My salesguide agrees this is in writing and should be on the SE. It is on the HSE as well as memory seats.His manager has put a call into LRNA to find out why. My theory is that I along with others have a "European" passenger seat as my driver's seat. So far all of the SEs he has looked at are like this. Does anyone have an SE with the 8-way power seats for the driver.? Also, he stated my individual keys would remember my seat settings when set. I have told him that is not the case. I think it only applies to the memory seat in the HSE. He is looking into it. Does any one know what the Easy Entry setting is under computer settings?

    Any thoughts would be appreciated.
  • beachbumbeachbum Member Posts: 28
    Do you have an SE? If you do can you tell me if you have 8-way power seats for the driver? The bottom button will have three sets of arrows. The first set are two going up and down, the middle arrows going left and right and the last will be like the first going up and down. Also please check the passenger see if it is 6-way or eight way. I am presuming the steering wheel is on the right side of the truck.
    Thanks
  • reichowjrreichowjr Member Posts: 86
    My dealer participates in A and X plan pricing.
  • ypshanypshan Member Posts: 103
    It's great that both A and X plans are out and in effect starting Nov. 4.

    Last year the plans weren't in effect until Jan. 1st.
  • grommetgrommet Member Posts: 445
    US LR3 SE has 6-way power seats on driver seat. It's an error in some of the specifications. HSE has 8-way on driver, with 3 person memory. Passenger is always 6-way. (The missing 2-way is the separate front of seat "up and down.") I personally think the driver seat should always be 8-way for more driver comfort possibilities, but it's no big deal for most.

    Always note the disclaimer: Specifications subject to change. ;)

    Remember, this is the same company that also posted the SE "Hi ICE" stereo has rear remote audio controls, the PTI/Bluetooth and Radio is operated "touchscreen", used '05 Range Rover GUI pictures, etc. Errors happen.
  • grommetgrommet Member Posts: 445
    Wow, I answered before the post. ;)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    And then a host comes along and deletes the duplicate :-)

    If you refresh your browser after posting, your message will get reposted. It's a feature of our software. The fix is to click on Recent Messages instead or go elsewhere on the forums and return.

    Steve, Host
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Mmmmm.............of course, a feature, that's what it is!

    ;--)
  • beachbumbeachbum Member Posts: 28
    One of my biggest complaints of my 01 Disco was that the seats were not comfortable. Having the "rocking" part of the seat somewhat fixed the problem. The new seats are very comfortable but all the literature and the salesguides stated they had 8-way power for the driver. They did not know it was not a 8 way until I told them. So they say. This is one of the largest LR dealers in the US. I can understand if it is in writing and they change it. To have the dealer tell you it is 8-way power and then it is not is sloppy and not fair. For me I need to have the extra "rock" in the seat. I guess I will have to live with it. Maybe I can have the dealer do something extra since I now have the new truck.
  • grommetgrommet Member Posts: 445
    Well, it shouldn't have been a surprise to you. I posted the errata over a month ago. ;) Sorry, but sales people are not perfect. And, obviously, the marketing and documentation folks aren't either. Enjoy the new truck. It's great, even with in 6-way driver seat SE form
  • transpowertranspower Member Posts: 213
    I've read through the posts on this forum, the Edmunds' editors' reviews, Motor Trend, etc., but cannot find much information on how the torque is transmitted to the wheels. Are there three differentials? Do they allocate torque front to rear, side-to-side? How does the LR3 compare with the new Jeep Grand Cherokee's QuadraDrive II?
  • wojowojo Member Posts: 2
    thanks for the experience.i`ll be trying an HSE tommmorow.will let you know how it goes..........
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    When I read of various "Plans", I am amazed. Not that many years ago, a vendor would use his customer's products whenever possible. In fact, most of the vendors employees would talk up and use the product. Afterall, their livelihood depended upon it. Now, apparently the "customer" has to bribe the vendor with an extra, non-publicly available discount to buy his product!! Wow. Not only does the guy selling the electronics, resin, steeel or whatever else going into the product not feel any loyalty to buy the product, he expects a special discount to buy it.

    This says a lot about the American culture and the blue state vs. red state dichotemy.
  • edfrededfred Member Posts: 4
    For the owners of the LR3, can you tell me what MPG you are getting. I have read that some are only getting 10.5 MPG. I have a Navigator that gets 15 MPG and I don't want to go backwards on the MPG. The LR3 looks great on paper. I am looking forward to driving an LR3 next Monday when I am in Seattle. I live in a city without a dealer and the nearest dealer is a 3 hour drive in the next state, so dependability is important.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    There are three differentials, one in the front that is an open differential, One internal to the transfer box which is a locking differential, and one in the rear which is either locking or open depending on the equipt level. All permanent 4WD have three differentials. Part time 4WD will have only two differentials, front and rear. A locking center differential will transmit torque evenly to the front and rear wheels, and a locking rear diff will do the same from side to side. All of this is easily configured using the Terrain Response system and can be monitored with the Navigation unit using the 4X4 info screen which displays wheel direction, gear selection, wheel articulation, terrain response setting, and several other functions on one screen. With the addition of ETC to control wheelspin, traction should never be an issue with the LR3.
     I'm not sure how the new Jeep system works, but I'm sure it is very good. I like to believe the Land Rover system is superior though. I would advise you to try both vehicles.
  • edfrededfred Member Posts: 4
    Does anyone know if the LR3 can be towed with all four on the road like the jeep. I would like to tow it behind a motor home.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    It is just a fact that manufacturer's and supplier's employees, and their freinds and families are consumers just like everyone else. They look at everything that is out there and buy what to them is the best value and meets their needs. In our lot you will find vehicles from our company, other PAG and Ford affiliates as well as competing brands. Different manufacturers have different enticements to encourage their employees to purchase their products; some with purchase programs like Ford and GM, some with sweet leasing deals. In reality it isn't any different from the employee discounts that retailers in other areas offer their employees and is not a new phenomonon, I was getting these discounts over 30 years ago. It is quite a stretch to equate this with the current events you mention.
  • nomad232nomad232 Member Posts: 16
    What accessories are you guys putting on your LR3's?

    I am getting (all from my dealer):
    -Sill Plates front / rear
    -Off Road Driving Lamps
    -Side Door Ding Protectors

    Let us know,
    Nomad
  • xchicagoan5xchicagoan5 Member Posts: 46
    Where is your dealer located and do they have any inventory? long story short - poor sales person.
  • grommetgrommet Member Posts: 445
    Use the EPA MPG ratings for what they are intended: comparison between vehicles. That's why it exists.

    The LR3 is heaviest in class. Don't expect miracles.

    We've seen real MPG of 14-15 mixed use. Your mileage may vary. (Ahem.) 10.5 MPG is unlikely once the engine/transmission learns it's groove... unless you drive like it's a sports car all the time. ;)
  • davidlr3davidlr3 Member Posts: 2
    I have had the car for 7 days now and have to report I am very happy with it. Although the dealer has put an additional 100 miles on the car. It was driven "to make sure everything is perfect with the car".

    The car gets 11.3 MPG driving around town and about 17 MPG on flat highway at sea level going about 70MPH.

    The only design flaw on the car is the inability to fold/unfold the 3rd row seats from the trunk. I wish they had designed the seat so that it only requires a single flip of a lever to fold or unfold the seat, at that there are levers to do so standing from the middle door and from the trunk.

    David
  • reichowjrreichowjr Member Posts: 86
    Jeff, my dealer is located in Wilmington, NC. You will have to email me directly for any additional information so as not to break the rules of the forum.

    Rick
  • reichowjrreichowjr Member Posts: 86
    Employee discounts are not a new phenomenon and are found across the economic spectrum.

     Would you say an employee of Target or Walmart who gets a discount is being bribed to buy their products? Discounts are perks/rewards that employers offer employees and vendors.

    I can get employee discounts on both Ford and GM products but my last vehicle purchase was a Honda Pilot. I purchased what met my needs at the time.
  • davefromnjdavefromnj Member Posts: 10
    I'm considering purchasing the LR3, however I am concerned about the cost of regular maintenance (i.e.- oil changes, etc.) I probably shouldn't be concerned about this cost b/c I am buying a $50K vechile, but I digress. Could I bring my LR3 to a Jiffy Lube (or equivlant)? The dealer will probably charge an arm and a leg.

    Thanks
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    You could probably have Jiffy Lube do an oil change. I would not advise them checking or replacing any other fluids. Many of the other fluids could be specific to the units, i.e. Trans fluid is specific to the ZF 6 speed and is not readily available through mass market discount outlets. I'm sure your dealer will be happy to supply pricing info for any interim services you would want performed such as oil changes. The scheduled maintenances are paid for through the 5 year 40,000 warranty period by Land Rover.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    OK, I'll admit it, I'm old fashioned. I feel that vendors and their employees should support their customers and buy their products not someone elses. For a vendor to request a special discount not available to others just to purchase from his customer strikes me as a new low in vendor/customer relations. ("OK, we'll sell you the steel to build it, but we want a special discount to everyone remotely connected with World Wide Steel Inc. if you want us to actually drive that piece of junk.")

    Let me give two examples. A lobsterman sells his lobsters to a restaurant. When it comes time to go out with his family, shouldn't his natural inclination be to patronize his customer, not another restaurant? And shouldn't he pay the same price as anyone else? Or, a local tire company buys fuel for their fleet of service trucks from a local gas station. Shouldn't the gas station owner try to buy his tires from them?

    I wonder what the public would think if they knew that in order to get the vendors of various components to buy the finished product, the vehicle manufacturer had to give a special discount? How much confidence would they have in the quality of the parts and the whole sales process?

    The issue of employee discounts is a separate issue and one in which I see a a lot of benefit to having the employees use the products they make/sell.
  • gw123gw123 Member Posts: 64
    If I remember the A plan pricing, it's net-net-net, meaning that the price is what the dealer would pay. The manufacturer is basically selling the vehicle at the same price they offer it to dealers.

    It's really a perk more than anything. If you're really concerned about "give-aways", look at the car rental companies and ask why Hertz has mostly Ford products while National has mostly GM.

    Almost every business offers their employees a discount (assuming a consumer product is being made), and many offer their vendors a discount as well.

    In the end, it sells more product for the company, gets the product out into the marketplace, and supposedly can generate additional sales.

    If you're really upset about this, move to a socialist country. They have all the answers.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Suffice it to say that everyone likes getting a deal. Let's move on please.

    Steve, Host
  • ypshanypshan Member Posts: 103
    100 miles!!! You've got to be kidding!

    Since it's testing, they were not doing 60mph all the time. Let's say the average speed was 25mph. They have driven your new car for FOUR hours!!

    Has anybody heard of a 100-mile test drive by any dealer? I'd insist on a detail break down of how the miles went.

    Are you sure they didn't continue to use your car as a demo or one of their 'executives' borrowed it for a joy trip?
  • socalfranksocalfrank Member Posts: 11
    I wa son a wait list for the LR3. I kept being told they were delayed for various reasons. I couldn't wait anymore and in early Oct. I bought a V8 VW Touareg with everything on it.
    Last week I went to the local dealer, sat in the LR3 and was so disappointed with the quality of the interior. The VW blows it away.
    Ford is crazy if they think they can sell a $55,000 SUV that doesn't feel like a luxury interior. If I needed a 3rd row seat, I would have bought the Toyota Landcruiser and not worried in the least about reliability.
    The Touareg and Toyota Landcruiser are in my opinion the best values out there in SUV's.
    To those of you who bought an LR3, I wish you good luck, and hope it turns out to be trouble free, but I am skeptical.
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