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Natural Gas fueled vehicles

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Comments

  • dieselkiwidieselkiwi Member Posts: 1
    I've had quite a lot of business dealings with the OCFA over the last couple of years, mainly with commercial building certification, fire detection and suppression systems in commercial buildings etc. I agree with earlier comments that they're a pretty fair and reasonable group to deal with. Their inspectors for the most part approach scenario's from a common sense point of view and offer advice freely.
    Has anyone come across any discussions with the OCFA as it pertains to home BioDiesel systems? Approaching this from a common sense point of view I'm hoping that the higher flame point would offset the volume that most home processor systems make (30 - 50 gallons per batch). I'll check back in a week or two and will follow up with the OCFA directly if there's nothing out there. Just trying to avoid duplicated discussions.
  • lakewood90712lakewood90712 Member Posts: 108
    This forum usually does not discuss diesel issues.

    Are you talking about doing the processing at home ?

    I have never personally seen biodiesel production, but IIRC , lye ? and methanol ? is used during the process, and a respirator is required during part of the process.

    It may be no more complicated than home beer brewing , but get real , this is not something to be doing at home unless you are are in an agriculture part of oc, well away from other houses.

    Asking about storage or process of chemicals in any residential zone is something that will certainly get their attention.
  • jwillardhjwillardh Member Posts: 2
    Ford has denied my warranty claim for the compuvalve and catalytic converter on my 1999 Bifuel Contour. The 8-year warranty runs out 8-18-07, and it has less than 45000 miles on it. I had to pay $3500 plus for the compuvalve and cat.converter. I told the dealer I thought it was the compuvalve when I brought it in, but he wanted to replace the cat.converter first. When it still wouldn't start he replaced the compuvalve. Do you know where I can get a copy of either the Bifuel extended emissions warranty or the EPA Regulation? Thanks
  • cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    I can only speak for the 2000 Contour Bi-Fuel model. In the owner's manual supplement booklet for "BI-FUEL" that came with the car, the compuvalve is clearly listed there in black on white print with 8 yr/80,000 mi coverage. Perhaps the 1999 model does not have that coverage. I would contact a FORD zone office official and have them show you what is listed for coverage on 1999.
    The dealer showed me the documentation for 2000, and it agrees with the owner supplement booklet. Ford had me covered, and no questions on both my cars.
    Sorry to hear of your experience.
  • d_linkd_link Member Posts: 17
    We have owned our Honda Civic GX since Dec. 1998 and have exactly the decal that you are seeking. The "CleanAirVehicle" decal was obtained simply by walking into the shop at our local PG&E utility and asking for one. Owners of CNG cars need to take risks, especially when seeking assistance for their cars. Since we are still relatively few in numbers, many in the industry are more than willing to help.

    Good luck in seeking assistance from your local CNG utility.
  • whooliawhoolia Member Posts: 6
    Which utility serves your house? I might be able to help you get a sticker, if you're down my way.
  • cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    If you are in Calif, I just got back today from a week long vacation there...
    I am in Portland Oregon, where Northwest Natural is our gas provider. Any leads will be appreciated. Thanks
  • jetboatjohnnyjetboatjohnny Member Posts: 104
    I will be fueling up at the SCAQMD in Diamond Bar on Thursday, they have stickers on all their cars, I will see if I can get some, or an address where you can send for them.
    J
  • jetboatjohnnyjetboatjohnny Member Posts: 104
    The SCAQMD does not have any more of the bumper stickers.
    I did get a great fill, 4250psi at $2.21/gge.
    J
  • kaseyjones1kaseyjones1 Member Posts: 7
    Has anyone on here installed a CNG kit on a car? I would like a CNG
    Ford Focus. I went to a GSA Fleet auction yesterday and felt the single
    CNG Contour went for way too much money for it's condition.

    Also is anyone in PA running a CNG car? Do you home fill? If not, where
    are you filling.

    As much as I would like to have a CNG vehicle, not sure the expense, in
    PA, is justified. Please convince me!

    Jim
  • d_linkd_link Member Posts: 17
    Rather than a Ford Focus, consider the Honda Civic GX. We have a dedicated CNG 1998 Honda Civic GX. It was built and designed as a CNG vehicle, rather than a conversion. We have never had any problems with the car and recommend it to anyone who is seriously considering a CNG vehicle. Many used Civic GX are available from fleets for very reasonable prices. When we purchased our GX, it cost $19,000, while 2007 GX costs are in the $24,000 range (though federal and local tax incentives are $2,000 greater than they were in 1998).

    While the new GX has many improvements, we fully expect our engine and fuel system to outlast the car. We currently have nearly 75,000 clean miles on our Civic GX. We still manage 30 mpg with all around driving, and can reach the upper 30's on highway trips.

    Though there are several sites listing used Honda Civic GX vehicles for sale, here are some where you may begin a search. Be certain to contact the Natural Gas Vehicle Association in your local area. They are a valuable resource. Checking Craigslist in areas closest to you would be a good source of used GX, though I failed to find anything on the Philadelphia list. Checking local gas utilities for used vehicles is often an excellent way to find a low price on a used Civic GX. Good luck!

    http://www.cngmotors.com/gal/cng/index.php

    http://autos.yahoo.com/usedcars/detail/index.html?cid=automobiles-226310770&dst=- 1,658.47&rsr=bWFrZT1IT05EQSZtb2RlbD1DSVZJQyZjbF95PTE5OTgmY2hfeT0yMDA3JmNsX3ByaWN- lPSZjaF9wcmljZT0mY2xfbWk9JmNoX21pPSZjaz1HWCZndXI9YW55JmNzej05NTYyNCZjZV9zbD0mdnR- 5cGU9YXV0b3MmbWs9SG9uZGEmbW89Q2l2aWMmc3VibWl0PVNlYXJjaA--

    http://autos.yahoo.com/usedcars/detail/index.html?cid=automobiles-226411922&dst=- 350.47&rsr=bWFrZT1IT05EQSZtb2RlbD1DSVZJQyZjbF95PTE5OTgmY2hfeT0yMDA3JmNsX3ByaWNlP- SZjaF9wcmljZT0mY2xfbWk9JmNoX21pPSZjaz1HWCZndXI9YW55JmNzej05NTYyNCZjZV9zbD0mdnR5c- GU9YXV0b3MmbWs9SG9uZGEmbW89Q2l2aWMmc3VibWl0PVNlYXJjaA--

    http://tulsa.craigslist.org/car/375555279.html
  • whooliawhoolia Member Posts: 6
    Hi, CNGuser,
    I got you a bumper sticker with this message:
    Natural Gas Vehicle
    Car Pool Lane - OK
    It's not fancy, but I have it for you. It may or may not work for you; would you like it?
    Here's another option: I found a Web site that will make custom bumper stickers. Haven't tried them, but anybody interested can see http://www.autolettering.com.
    whoolia
  • kaseyjones1kaseyjones1 Member Posts: 7
    Thank you for your info. I am a Ford fan and would rather find or create same. I have done extensive propane forklift work and alot of fabrication over the years so, I would really like to create a CNG Focus if I can find a kit.

    Thank you again,
    Jim
  • d_linkd_link Member Posts: 17
    If you are truly a Ford fan, does that extend to Volvo, which is owned by Ford? If it does, Volvo has made several versions of bifuel cars. They are only available, unfortunately, in Europe. If you are interested, you will have to act quickly, however, for Ford has decided to end ALL PRODUCTION of bifuel Volvo vehicles and invest their time and money in ethanol mix cars instead (this is one of the worst decisions Ford has ever made, but you appear to understand that CNG is a much better fuel simply by your membership in this forum).

    Good luck in your search.
  • londnrlondnr Member Posts: 55
    I think that one of Ford's worst decisions (among many bad choices) was to end production of dedicated CNG vehicles here in the US. I love my Crown Vic, but replacement options are few and far between for a full size car.

    As to converting a Focus, I have a feeling that the effort and expense involved would make the project unfeasible.
  • jetboatjohnnyjetboatjohnny Member Posts: 104
    You would probablty be better off converting to propane, would cost less.
  • kaseyjones1kaseyjones1 Member Posts: 7
    Ford and Mazda only. Not really interested in Volvo or Jag. Thanks for the info though.

    Jim
  • cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    Whoolia - Thanks for the lead. The sticker you have would not be applicable in Oregon, so I will look into having one made from Autolettering.
    I think if we would all get a bumper sticker to note our Natural Gas powered vehicles - more people would take interest and get involved!
  • cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    If you have some $ to spend and like to travel, go to South America where (I last saw for 2006) FORD offers several factory built CNG models of the FOCUS. Might be able to get a good used one. Only challenge would be getting it US-EPA certified for use in here.
    Also, I read that somewhere in Europe, Mercedes has a CNG version of one of its cars.
    It is a shame that these are so downplayed and ignored in the US by various entities. American HONDA deserves kudos for keeping CNG cars alive here!
  • d_linkd_link Member Posts: 17
    The labels do not have PG&E, any state, or local jurisdiction as part of the label. They simply state:

    Clean Air Vehicle (large letters)
    Powered by Natural Gas (smaller letters)

    If you are interested, I will attempt to locate some at our local PG&E yard. They might be willing to part with some, since we have been refueling with them since 1998.
  • d_linkd_link Member Posts: 17
    There are some 60 different CNG models available in Europe, while we currently have only the Honda Civic GX in the US. Some are very exciting, however, you have hit on the only question: Can they gain US-EPA certification? If you discover any that do, please don't hesitate to mention this in the Forum.
  • cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    Both labels would be like what I am seeking for both my CNG cars.
    You can contact me via this forum's email. Maybe you'll get some more takers!
    Thank you and PG&E
    cnguser
  • whooliawhoolia Member Posts: 6
    Hi, CNGuser and all,
    I now have available 2 bumper stickers. The first 2 people that ask for them, get them, but CNGuser gets first dibs.

    bumper stickers say:
    THIS VEHICLE IS POWERED
    BY CLEAN NATURAL GAS

    No company logos. Colors are blue with white letters and a thin red line along bottom. Measure 2.5" x 12". No charge. I love to encourage fellow clean-air drivers.

    whoolia
  • cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    Hey team, let's get the word out there that CNG vehicles are alive and well, help the environment, not to mention they cut import oil costs & its pollution!
    Get a bumper sticker for your vehicle.

    (Whoolia check your e-mail at this forum - message for you).
  • cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    Don't miss this opportunity to see what's out there or soon to be in alternative fueled vehicles, including our time proven CNG'ers. In Santa Monica, Calif.

    See http://www.altcarexpo.com/
  • tstiktstik Member Posts: 9
    I have just purchased 2 of the cavaliers. Neat little cars by the way. Is there an online parts breakdown or cross-reference of the parts so you dont need to get raped by the dealership? What are the best forums for NGV?
    It seems like there is quite a few folks driving cng but we are all scattered out. We need to get us all in one place.
  • cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    Welcome. This forum is a good place to be. You really jumped in with 2 cars!
    I suggest you order the factory shop manuals from Helminc.com for that year. These will be helpful, but not cheap. My hunch is the dealers are likely to be the best souce for the specialized CNG components, should you need something. If you find an independent CNG service technician, he may have a source for parts. You could try the auto parts place down the street, but likely they may have no reference to even start looking.
    Happy motoring.
  • tstiktstik Member Posts: 9
    Are there any major forums where everybody hangs out? If not we should pick one and let everybody we know its the place to be. The cng info is so scattered that its tough to come by. Like this place, waiting for 1-2 days for a reply much less being able to classify the discussions and such. So besides here what other place is a good hangout?
  • adeaadea Member Posts: 44
    "You could try the auto parts place down the street, but likely they may have no reference to even start looking."

    AutoZone has most parts much cheaper as well as BAP, and I found a great online site called Autopartswarehouse that has some REAL bargains!
    Garry
  • kscngkscng Member Posts: 12
    I'd sure be interested in buying your 3,600 psi Fuelmaker if reasonable price. Everywhere I look to buy a used one, price is sky high or long waiting list. Any other NGV user group-type website to look for used FMQ-2-36 unit?
  • ngv123ngv123 Member Posts: 18
    Hello all,

    I drive a GX and am extremely happy with it. A friend of mine just purchased a 2006 CNG Grand Marquis. The vehicle is running great but he has asked me for recommendations on local CNG Certified mechanics should he experience any issues. Since I haven't had anything worked on my GX except changed oil I am not sure where to send him.

    Any recommendations on CNG Certified Mechanics in Southern California?

    Thank you!
  • d_linkd_link Member Posts: 17
    I will not take my GX to anyone except a Honda CNG certified dealership. They are required to have qualified mechanics on hand who are properly trained for high pressure applications. Many mechanics which whom I have spoken feel that CNG and LPG are relatively similar and I have had to "educate" them as to the critical dangers inherent in that supposition.

    Though Ford has relatively extensive history with CNG vehicles, they have completely dropped the program in the USA. The GM bifuel cars did not last long on the market and I was told that they were not very reliable. I would worry about simply going to a Ford or GM dealership. If a CNG certified Honda dealership is not nearby, check with mechanics at United Parcel Service or a local rapid transit district. They have extensive experience with 3000 to 5000 psi CNG applications and should be highly qualified to recommend someone in the area (unless you are able to guilt them into helping you directly).

    Good luck. I wish more USA manufacturers would make their European CNG vehicles available here. The new Opel Corsa has been outfitted by BRA GmbH and Gasverbund Mittelland AG in Germany and Switzerland and is an exciting possibility for the US in the future. With a CNG range of 500km and petrol of 200km (optimized for CNG), both companies are eager to enter the California market after they gain German and European certification for their aftermarket conversion (approved by Opel GmbH).
  • cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    Please pardon my question to your statement before the question - where did your friend buy a 2006 CNG Grand Marquis? If I am not mistaken, 2004 was the last year FORD did anything CNG in the US.

    Was this a "conversion job"? If so do you know what outfit did it? Where are they located? Approximate costs?

    As for CNG mechanics, have him take a road trip to Portland. One of the Ford dealers off I-5 has a CNG technician available...
  • londnrlondnr Member Posts: 55
    I was also wondering about the Grand Marquis, as it would be an extremely rare CNG vehicle.

    Check out BAF Technologies - according to their website they do CNG conversion on the Crown Vic, Town Car and Grand Marquis (almost anything with the 4.6 - I like the sound of a CNG Marauder). It looks as if it is authorized to some extent by Ford, and the 2006 Crown Vic is CARB approved.

    http://www.baftechnologies.com/
  • whooliawhoolia Member Posts: 6
    Hey, I just got 10 more bumper stickers that say:
    THIS VEHICLE IS POWERED
    BY CLEAN NATURAL GAS.
    No company logos, etc. I'll send these free to the first 10 people that ask me. I talked a friend out of these, since his agency isn't using them anymore.

    whoolia
  • adeaadea Member Posts: 44
    Thanks Whoolia! I would be glad to have one. :) My email address is: gariadea@yahoo.com.
    Garry
  • dejapoohdejapooh Member Posts: 40
    I would love one. Thanks

    Dejapooh@hotmail.com
  • kaseyjones1kaseyjones1 Member Posts: 7
    I'll take one. Thank you,

    Jim
    kasey-jones@comcast.net
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    We really try to discourage posting of email addresses to protect your privacy. (You never know who is about trying to find email addys to spam!)

    A better way to let other registered users here contact you directly is to set your email address to "public" in your profile. That way registered forums users (and ONLY registered forums users) can click on your username and get your email from your profile to contact you.

    A handy tip to help avoid spam!
  • dejapoohdejapooh Member Posts: 40
    Another thing you can do is have a "throw away" email address that you only check when you are expecting Email from someone (like someone who wants to send you a sticker). My hotmail address is 99% spam... My REAL email address gets almost none, because I never publish it.
  • jetboatjohnnyjetboatjohnny Member Posts: 104
    I could use one, you can get me at my handle here at yahoo
  • epnfrnepnfrn Member Posts: 87
    had my previous 'email laden' post moved ... would still like one please! email in profile.

    brian
  • ikirikir Member Posts: 11
    If you have any left, I'll take one too. Email: ikir@comcast.net
  • kscngkscng Member Posts: 12
    Hey I've got use for 3 labels if you still have any left. Myself & a couple friends would like for our cars. Thanks,
    cng_across_usa@yahoo.com
  • kaseyjones1kaseyjones1 Member Posts: 7
    Has anyone used a home fill unit supplied by a company other than Fuelmaker? Price? Quality? Shipping costs? Can a pump be purchased for it when it is worn out? I am ready to buy a car but, lack of a Fueling Station nearby has me needing to home fill.

    Thank you
  • cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    You can check out
    http://www.gasfill.com/
    but it is in England, and I don't know if it is licensed or AGA approved for use in the USA.
    Right now I believe FuelMaker is the only game in town, unless you have multi thousands of bucks for a big time commercial CNG fueling system such as the transit agencies and filling stations use here.
    I have two (3000 psi) cars and a used FMQ-2, and it works great.
    Keep checking the Internet as used ones pop up now and then.
  • patcngpatcng Member Posts: 2
    Yes there is another company which will soon be available. I'll post the information as it becomes available. The big differences with them compared to the Fuelmaker monopoly is they'll be cheaper, the compressor heads last the life of the machine, Etc.
    On the upside I currently use a modified FM4 for the past 4 years at least and almost 7,000 hours. Never had to replace the heads.
    Could FUELMAKER CORP. BE STICKING TO THOUSANDS OF CUSTOMERS?
  • patcngpatcng Member Posts: 2
    Keep the Contour and keep the pump.
    They could be used together.
    Send me your email address and I'll forward you the information and costs as soon as possible. Also possible secrets on how to modify your Fuelmaker to run indefinitely without having to replace the head. So far I have approximately 7,000 hours on my FM4 and it's still running strong and safe.
  • kaseyjones1kaseyjones1 Member Posts: 7
    I am interested in the new pump and the mods you did to the Fuelmaker. My e-mail is in my profile. Thank you Patcng.

    Jim
  • d_linkd_link Member Posts: 17
    There is another company which has been planning to enter the US market, though they have run into problems locating a US partner. You may check their website for current information:

    http://www.pressurecontrols.com/00000098290825904/000000997e0f95a0d/index.html

    This company states that their CNG at Home unit will retail for approximately $1,800 US, though FuelMaker told us many years ago, when we were supposed to be part of their pre-production program, that Phill would sell initially for $1,900 and drop to $1,000 within one year. We all know now that they were off by $2,500, only part of that increase due to the increasingly stronger Canadian dollar. We are very interested, but are still awaiting positive news.
This discussion has been closed.