Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

fintail · December 2012

Thanks. I guess you know those cars a bit. The effortless off the line performance of the car is hard to match in anything but a strong diesel (which has a good chance of being an eventual replacement).

Nothing lures me I can afford anyway. I get the itch to look now and then, but there's no positive cost/benefit relationship to me for another car. I guess I am not fit to be a chronic buyer :shades:

nyccarguy · December 2012

I know you've mentioned this before, but what year is your car? How many miles are on it?

There's something extremely special about a naturally aspirated, hand built, V8 Engine. I've never had the pleasure of driving one. That body style Mercedes is classic (I'm not sure of the W code) and understated. I LOVE the fact that only the true enthusiast would even notice those AMG (mono block) wheels and look for the badge on the back to admire the car that's blowing by him. You've found your "it car" to which you will judge all other cars you ever consider against, even subconsciously. Does it accelerate like my E55? Does it brake, handle, ride like my E55? Is it as pretty as my E55? Does the exhaust sound as good as my E55? Are the seats as comfortable and supportive as my E55? Is the interior as nice as my E55? Will it be as reliable and dependable as my E55? The answer to an overwhelming majority of those questions will be no. Then you'll ask yourself: Is it (the new car) worth it? No.

fintail · December 2012

It's an 02, from the last couple months of W210 production. I bought it in 06. It is up to about 54K miles now.

I do like the big normally aspirated engine that kind of has a muscle car mentality, and the subtle looks. All of the exterior trim (outside of maybe exhaust tip) could be had on a normal car, the noise and speed are the greatest clues from the outside. It's not a perfect car - guzzles gas in city traffic, eats tires, servicing isn't cheap, material quality isn't like an 80s MB, and being a European car, a small electrical based issue could pop up at anytime. But, it is comfortable, rare, nice looking (it is at a point where people think it is either very late model, or call it a "classic"), handles very well for something of its size (several hundred pounds lighter than a late model), has been reliable, and is long since paid for.

These early AMG cars have depreciated so steeply, that you can't get anything special for the same money. I look at newer AMGs and some highline cars, and they just don't get me going when I consider the expense. When I get bored with it, I just think about how it sounds at cold start.

I don't want another gas guzzler, so any replacement would probably be a diesel car. I need the torque, I have been spoiled.

mark156 · December 2012

Corvette, as far as I could tell, the dealer I bought from in my Southern California town only had one 2012 left on the CR-V's. Since the style didn't change, it was a little hard to tell.

My preferred choices were:
Silver with black leather
Silver with grey leather
White with tan leather
.....in that order.

They were able to find Silver with Black leather just north of Los Angeles. The Silver with grey leather was near San Diego. The White with tan was on the lot.

I hate buying new cars (although l like new cars)..... I really dread it. They don't make it fun. :sick:

Mark156

ronsteve · December 2012

I've picked out a new 2013 Honda CR-V EXL w/ nav and will most likely close the deal tomorrow. The price is tentatively set and trade evaluated. I'll miss the 'lil '07 CR-V (67,000 miles) but they have made some nice improvements on the 2013. I like the spring-loaded fold down rear seats. With just a pull of a lever, the seats will fold down and lay almost flat. I noticed the power steering is softer and the car is quieter (typical of a new car, right?).

You know, if wagons do truly become extinct by the time I replace the Volvo, I was thinking a CR-V might not be a bad way to go. Hondas get a bad rap for being "appliance-like" but it's really a nice ride.

Probably most striking is when you compare it with the new Escape... no 6th gear, no fancy EcoBoost engine, yet it has similar or better performance and similar gas mileage with a lower price and better reliability. And because it doesn't have that fancy turbo, it runs good on regular gas. So is it the new Bluesmobile or what?

Am I already that curmudgeonly at 41? Or maybe I'm just old enough to remember a Honda ad campaign from waaaaayyyy back with the slogan "We make it simple." It has a strange appeal as I'm dealing with the over-engineering that is my Volvo.

ateixeira · December 2012

before my wash and wax

No "after" pic? :shades:

ateixeira · December 2012

2 friends have bought new CR-Vs, both happy so far. Congrats.

nyccarguy · December 2012

What do you think of These E55 AMGs that came after yours?

fintail · December 2012

Lots of performance for the money - faster than my car, but lots more to go wrong. These are airmatic/ABC cars, and if those systems go, you're in for some fun. If I was going to roll those dice, I'd choose an 05 or 06 model, or maybe hold out for an E63 P3 car (limited slip, higher speed governor, two piece wheels, special steering wheel, etc).

nyccarguy · December 2012

Replacing airmatic and or ABC? I'm out. I'll stick to a car with good old steel springs. Looks more & more like I might buy out the lease on my BMW when it's up.

stickguy · December 2012

I posted the link on Saturday to a snapfish album with pictures after I had it cleaned up.

Another milestone. Finally got through the pain of the trip to the DMV (something that can keep the CCB trait in check if you live in Jersey!). And after work, managed to get the plates back on it.

so, at this point, nothing left except to extricate it from the garage and actually drive the darned thing.

fintail · December 2012

The W211 is a degree more complex than a W210. I'd say my car is easily cheaper to run.

When you buy out that lease, are you able to pay a market value, or do you have to start from the inflated resale as stated on the lease? As the Germans seem to be claiming residuals that aren't based in reality.

jayrider · December 2012

don't know about bmw but nissan won't negotiate on buyout. when you turn it in it goes to nissan not the dealer. then if the dealer wants it they buy it for 70-80% of the residual and put it up for 20% over residual. This was back in 2010. Sweet deal all around for the dealer.

tjc78 · December 2012

The NJ DMV is better than it used be, but still manages to be a PITA

nyccarguy · December 2012

As with anything, it all depends on the market. When we turned in my wife's 2007 X3 back in July 2010, the residual value was $26,5K. I remember the dealership offering to sell me the car back for $23,000 minus the $500 security deposit I had given them ($22,500). I assumed they were going to buy the car from BMWFS for less than I could (BMWFS would not negotiate with me) and then sell it back to me for a small profit, then make "their money" CPOing the car. They wanted somewhere around $3K to CPO the car which would have brought the car up to pretty much to BMWFS (inflated) residual value. That was also during a "soft" used car market. Today things are different.

How are things going to look in September 2014 when my lease is up? I don't know. I do know that 2011 was a very LONG model year for the BMW 3 series. Production started in mid-2009 (they switched the 335i motors from N54 to the current N55) and I bought mine in March of 2012. There are going to be A LOT of 2011 328xis coming off lease and hitting the market around the same time my lease expires. I'm sure the majority of these cars were "cheap leased" with 10K miles per year and just the value package (auto, leather, hot seats, usb port, 17" wheels) & maybe metallic paint. After 2 1/2 years, these 328s will have between 20 & 30K miles on them.

My car on the other hand has the Value Pkg, Premium Pkg, Navigation, heated steering wheel (don't knock it until you try it), Adaptive Xenon Hedlights, & Metallic Paint. It will also have 50,000 miles on the odometer. The thought in the back of my head is that maybe the dealership (or another BMW dealership) will sell me the car at below the stated residual value.

Now today's visit to the service department has thrown another cog into the mix. With 14,000 miles, my car requires its first service plus it has a few teething problems (nothing major). I dropped off my 2011 328xi and picked up a loaner car. The loaner is also a 2011 BMW 3 series. Except it is a 335d. All I can say is WOW!

Hello, my name is Bradd
Hi Bradd
And I'm addicted to TORQUE

Besides the astonishing mid-range passing power, according to the trip computer (which on the BMW is DOB accurate) I averaged over 60 mph for the 34 mile trip home from the dealership (not the closest dealership, but their service department rocks). 35+ mpg and most of the time I was going well over 70.

Now there is a yin for every yang. The major problem with the 335d is the fact that it is RWD & I live in New England (yes it is Connecticut within spitting distance of the NY border, but it is still New England). We had a freak snowstorm about a month ago and my 328xi handled absolutely beautifully. This 335d has almost 39K miles and I'm sure the tires are close to shot, so even in tonight's rain slicked roads the 425 lb ft of torque made the stability control light flicker a few times.

corvette · December 2012

Oh, wow... If I were their fleet manager, I'd be afraid of people putting gasoline in the diesel tank!

I think you may be able to buy a BMW out of lease for less than the stated residual... There's an "ask a dealer" board on Bimmerfest, which is probably where the experts hang out.

There are a lot of people like kyfdx who seem to be zen masters of BMW ownership/leasing (at a reasonable cost).

nyccarguy · December 2012

good point. I'll bring that up to the service guy when I talk to him tomorrow. Wonder if that's ever happened to a service loaner?

I'd like to not get on the "leasing hamster wheel" and try to not spend so much money on a car I like to drive. Even if I buy the car out for the stated residual, what new car out there am I going to get that drives like my BMW for high $20Ks? Being able to negotiate a cheaper price with the dealer would just be icing on the cake.

roadburner · December 2012

I think you are on the right track; I'd take an E90 over an F30 any day.

tjc78 · December 2012

which on the BMW is DOB accurate)

"It's an industry term"

Name the movie.

There is something about the amazing amount of torque the newer diesel motors have. We have a guy in the office with a new Passat TDI and he just raves about it.

stever · December 2012

Looks like the Passat TDI has 236 lb-ft. of torque.

The '13 Nissan Quest has 240. Probably not too many raves about moving that box around though (although my '99 has 200 foot-pounds and it felt huge after moving up from the 4 banger Voyager that had 135).

The Tesla comes in at 295 (I think that's the S, but may be the Roadster. Either way it's all torque all the time).

Much more interesting numbers than zero to sixty.

nyccarguy · December 2012

My Cousin Vinny

rayainsw · December 2012

As I think I posted a while back, I will face a similar situation when my [ first, and likely only, lease ] on the 2011 335iS I am driving is up in about a year.
The residual was good, from a lease payment standpoint.
Not from a 'buy out the lease' standpoint.
I will be interested to see if BMW Financial Services offers any alternative, when the time does come....
2 service visits in18,000 miles - but just oil change and check for each.
1 = 2012 535i 'loaner' - to local IHOP & back.
[ 5 miles? ]
1 = nice morning & walked to breakfast...
Not driven a 335d.
Would likely enjoy the TQ!
- Ray
Just emjoying the drive, for now ....

laurasdada · December 2012

Congrats and enjoy the Integra! I had a (new) '88. Still may be the best screwed-together car I've owned. When I shut the driver door, I felt hermetically sealed in! And, fun to drive! Only had about four years (got a company car, no fun but free), not a single issue to report.

nyccarguy · December 2012

Thanks for the encouragement as always roadburner. I checked the tires on my 335d loaner this AM and they are SHOT. Down to the wear bars. I also believe the car needs an alignment & the front left tire needs to be rebalanced. So I'm sure that had EVERYTHING to do with how squirmy it has been in the rain.

The other thing is that there aren't that many 335ds (plural) around do to their RWD only configuration. I think I found 8 CPO cars within 100 miles from my zip code. Most had asking prices in the mid-to high $30K range which would price me out of the market. So not only would I be buying a more expensive car, I'd also have to buy a set of dedicated snow tires/rims for a RWD 335d.

There are literally 1,000,002 328xis driving around.

I hope they take an extra day with my car in the service bay:)

fintail · December 2012

Interesting. It seems from memory (I have no specifics), that MB lease residuals tend to be maybe 5K above market prices. I'd be afraid of leasing a car, becoming attached to it, then facing a bloated asking price if I wanted to buy it at the end of the term. Maybe that's how they keep people on the lease merry-go-round.

I'd want a car with nav and xenons, too. And if it was a BMW, I'd try for HUD.

335d being a loaner might mean they aren't selling? I remember my local Lexus dealer disposed of an unsold bunch of HS by making them loaners. Too bad - that's the 3er I'd want.

nyccarguy · December 2012

The NAV is nice to have, but I rarely use it. We use it much more in my wife's Pilot. The Adaptive Xenon headlights are spectacular.

fintail · December 2012

I like the chime noise the BMW nav makes. I seldom use the COMAND in my E55, but I have used it, and it is nice to have just for the sake of it - especially if you are going to buy the car anyway.

My E55 has the old style xenon (no projector or adaptive function), still so much better than standard halogens. I remember a 7er rental I had in Germany in 2009 (F01) had "Dynamic Xenon" lights.

corvette · December 2012

I still haven't completely warmed up to iDrive or most of the other nav/entertainment systems, but I also love the iDrive warning chime--it's one of those things that makes a BMW feel special. I think the newer 1-series and 3-series without nav may have the same chime sound as well now.

CNBC did a neat documentary about BMW, which is available on Youtube. They discussed the chime as well as other sounds cars make. (They also interviewed a guy from Consumer Reports who panned the lackluster reliability of their model lineup.)

fintail · December 2012

My co-worker's E90 328i has nav, and I was geeked to hear the chime when I rode in it again last week - I had to contain my happiness, of course - I don't know if normal people are into such details. It is those little touches that can make a big difference in perception.

My modern MB only beeps if something is left on - but I do like when the nav powers on, you get a nice MB star and "Mercedes-Benz" for a few seconds. The old car predates any beeps or buzzer, the car just laughs at you under its breath if you leave the lights on etc.

stickguy · December 2012

Thanks. I actually drove it today for the first time (after the brief test drive). Took some getting used to. the 10 months of no stick driving didn't matter, but having just been driving the RDX for the last 2 weeks going back to a revvy little engine was a shock.

Car drives well. some creaks, etc, but probably fewer than the TL. engine pulls good. Even has a good radio. Took it for a quick highway run and it buzzed along fine at 65-70, tracked straight, no shake or shimmy in the steering wheel.

so far, so good.

breld · December 2012

Hey Stick - congrats on the Integra. And thanks for buying it and sparking such nostalgic conversation for "Hondas of old."

Back in '94, I was about to graduate college and the then new Integra GS-R was on my short list. I ended up with a Prelude instead, but my brother and a friend each bought almost identical GS-R sedans, and my then-wife had an LS hatch. Indeed great cars.

The one I would love to get my hands on is the 1993 GS-R. It was the last year of that 2nd gen model, and it was the only model that received an upgrade in the engine dept. GS-R's, while special, became more of the regular line-up for the 3rd gen, but it was basically a limited edition for that 1993 model.

Now, I can't imagine finding one that was in any sort of reasonable condition. And it seemed a lot of them were a turquoise color. [EDIT] just did some research - apparently it was "Aztec Green"

. And they actually made them for 2 years - 92-93.

nyccarguy · December 2012

Ok, so all is well after my 2011 328xi's 1st service. ECU was re-flashed which got rid of the cold start revving, a loose wire was found to be the trouble of the tail light on the left rear trunk causing the light to flicker, the hinges on the hood were adjusted so it is now aligned properly, & a faulty trunk latch will be replaced in about 3 weeks when the part arrives. The car was washed & vacuumed (believe me, it needed it).

So I've got a few parting comments about the 335d they gave me as a loaner car.

Between Monday night and tonight, I put 231 miles on the diesel loaner. The needle was at the 1/2 mark when I filled up and it said I still had over 300 miles until empty. I did a little more highway driving than normal because I had to drive my Grandma home after dinner (about 25 miles) and then return the loaner (another 28 miles).

I filled up with Diesel that was $4.33 per gallon. Super at the same station was $4.19 per gallon. I did see another station that was selling diesel for $4.59 and Super for $4.29.

In 231 miles, I averaged 42.3 mph & 32.2 mpg. I was driving normally and not trying to get good gas mileage, it just happened.

I hopped into my 328xi and headed back home. I backed into the driveway and checked my trip computer. 38.8 mph average speed. 21.5 mpg.

Both cars have their positives and negatives.

The 335d obviously has a HUGE advantage when it comes to power (425 lb ft of torque - ARGH, ARGH, ARGH) and fuel economy (pretty much 10 mpg better real world). The passing power this car has is just unreal. Push down on the throttle and it just goes. Pulls like a freight train.

My 328xi's steering is actually heavier than the RWD 335d. Handling was hard to judge because I was driving a car with tires that NEEDED to be replaced and it is someone else's $50K + BMW that I didn't want to wrap around a tree or telephone pole.

The 425 lb ft of torque, RWD, & balding tires made the car's wet weather traction squirmy. I even saw the DTC light flicker a few times on dry pavement.

My 328xi was noticeably quieter and smoother than the 335d. The around town diesel clatter didn't bother me, but the car's N52 Inline 6 just sings and loves to rev.

The verdict. The diesel motor is just incredible. The fuel economy it gives is just an added bonus. For me to put one in my driveway would most certainly cost me more than the buyout on my 328xi, plus I'd have to invest in a set of dedicated winter wheels & tires, and possibly get a used winter beater (Jeep or Subaru).

The other diesel cars on the market either won't match up to the way my 328xi drives (VW Passat, Jetta, Golf TDI are all FWD) or they are A LOT more money (X5s aren't cheap, even used). It has peaked my interest to give a 4 cyl BMW diesel a chance (X1, X3, 3 series) assuming they are out when my lease is up in September 2014. There will also be a diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee on the market (thank-you verdugo).

nyccarguy · December 2012

"ended up with a Prelude"

Cmon breld, show my car some LOVE!

nyccarguy · December 2012

Ok, so most of you already know that I pretty much almost daily think about what I'm going to do when the lease is up on my 2011 328xi in September 2014. I keep saying that I want a less expensive car. One way for me to do that is buy out the lease on my current car. It would be a helluva car even for the (high) $20K residual value.

I just spent a few minutes optioning out some new BMWs that might peak my interest:

X3 4 cyl: metallic paint, leatherette, cold weather pkg, xenon lights, rear camera, pdf, destination - MSRP $42,695

328xi 4 cyl: metallic paint, leatherette, hot seats, rear camera, pdf, destination - MSRP $43,545

X1 6 cyl (300 hp/300 lb ft torque): metallic paint, leatherette, cold weather pkg, destination - MSRP $40,445

X1 4 cyl: sport line, hot seats, destination - MSRP $37,295

stickguy · December 2012

unless you really need more cargo room (not likely in your case) I liked the X1 much more than the X3. More manageable size, and of course, way cheaper. I only drove the X3 but from what I have read the 1 is more car-like (a good thing).

and did I mention, it is cheaper?

but pace yourself man, 9/14 is a long ways away! Pretty sure by then there may be an updated X1 out anyway?

Oh, I will would be happy with a plain old 1 series 4 door hatch, though the X1 is not much bulkier than that .

stickguy · December 2012

It is depressing, but I know want a Lexus. The Integra is a fun toy, but I had gotten used to the RDX. Comfort is good.

I also drove the Volvo for the first time in a couple of weeks last night. It drives nice. and compared to the Integra, it IS a Lexus (well, not quite, but certainly a world ahead in comfort and features).

I think I want that higher H point, torquey engine, power goodies, fancy stereo, and cushy seats.

and interesting too is that while getting back into a stick after 10 months was like I never left, I really don't care all that much for driving around town. Something to do, but not required.

Darned, i crossed one of those milestone ages, and turned into TJC (even though he is 15 years younger than I am!)

good thing I got into this baby cheap. Though I expect I will have to keep it at least into the spring, I am of course keeping my eyes out on CL, etc. for the right old mans car (but still has to be on the more compact side) to snatch up. Not worried about resale on the Integra to get my money back out of it.

So, an ES300, 2004 TL, another Volvo (S60), heck a Regal if they aren't too big.

now I am just scaring myself!

ateixeira · December 2012

Can you even find a stick Lexus?

Wait for the new IS.

qbrozen · December 2012

careful on the S60s. You really need to get an '04 or higher to avoid some of the major issues. And definitely do NOT get an AWD model.

I'd have a 9-3 on that list, too. And ES300? ew. :sick:

qbrozen · December 2012

I think he is saying he wants a slushbox.

tjc78 · December 2012

I think in our area an auto and a soft ride are just about a necessity. The traffic (especially this time of year) and the roads aren't friendly. Just came back from the Deptford shopping area and its already becoming nuts!

There is plenty to choose from in softer luxo coupes/sedans. I loved my first generation Solara, the older ES 300/330 are nice (reliable too).

ateixeira · December 2012

he wants a slushbox

Does not compute.

ateixeira · December 2012

Avoid run-flats and ultra-low-profile tires and you should be able to find a good balance between compliance and handling.

I'm guilty, though, went with 17"s on my Miata, now I wish I'd stuck with the base 16"s. It's just I wanted the Torsen limited slip.

I may just sell or swap 'em.

michaellno · December 2012

Does this mean he would have to change his Edmunds ID to slushguy?

I've been reading with great interest about Edmunds' purchase and ownership of the '96 ES300 as a long term tester.

ateixeira · December 2012

Get an LS, can't cost much more if it's that age. Or a Gen II GS.

breld · December 2012

"ended up with a Prelude"

Cmon breld, show my car some LOVE!

Oh no - that was poorly worded. I definitely made the choice of the Prelude over the Integra and absolutely loved it. It was a '93 Si model - didn't pony up for the "Vtec" or "4WS" model, but felt pretty smug with my 160 hp!

Obviously a stock photo, but pretty representative of what I had - though mine was a more "purple" blue. I can admit that now.

breld · December 2012

Between its seating position and handling, the X1 is definitely more car-like than the X3. In fact, with the X1 available here I am a bit surprised (but very pleased) that they continue to bring the 3-series wagon to the U.S.

I've been looking at used E90 wagons (E91 I guess) and if I found the right one I'd consider getting one. But I'd prefer the steering and feel of the X1 combined with its 4-cyl turbo and 8-speed auto - but no used X1's at this point.

breld · December 2012

Wife and I looked at and drove this one last week.

'06 325xi wagon, manual sport

It drove nice and seemed to be in good shape. Being "only" the 325 model, it did seem a bit lacking in power, but with the stick shift it was more than adequate. If they ever get down to the $17k's I think I'd consider it more strongly.

Still like the TSX wagon the best for its balance of style and practicality. But lately I'm also noticing more and more used Golf R's out there, which is peaking my interest.

nyccarguy · December 2012

The 4th Generation ('92 - '96) Preludes were great cars to drive, even the Si. My best friend had a '92 Si Automatic and we both LOVED it.

nyccarguy · December 2012

I'm not sure, but that seems like an awful lot of money for a 6 year old 3er wagon with a stick.

I can just see the UCM's talking to the owner about their perfect condition, low mileage trade-in. "Your car is in spectacular condition, has low miles, & the right equipment. If it had an Automatic, I could give you $14K for it. The stick absolutely kills it. The best I can do is $12K. Sorry."

Then they turn around & call it a "rare car" in their online ad.

fintail · December 2012

When I was in high school, I knew a girl who's mother had a 92-93 Si 4WS. It was a darkish blue, maybe like the color mentioned earlier. She was allowed to drive it to school now and then. To a 16 year old in a small town, that car seemed pretty hot.

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