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I wish I could only pay what you pay for either.
Today corner store prices are $4.35/ 24 mpg= .181 cents vs 4.95 /44 mpg= .1125 cent or .60 cents spread. Rug costs .0685 cents more to operate or 61% more per mile driven.
By your responses, I am not sure what that says to you.
But I sure know what that says to me.
Lets use your numbers; 3.60/24= .15 cents 4.71/44=.107 cents.
RUG is 40% more (.15-.107=.043/.107=)
You have not proven anything. Where is your link that claims VW lost 160 Billion Euros? That much would bankrupt any car maker. That is almost twice what Toyota is worth.
AAA has their website that's updated daily. Nationally, they put the average price per gallon for 07-23-2008 as follows:
RUG - $4.042
PUG - $4.428
Diesel - $4.802
In my local market (AAA says for Pittsburgh, PA = RUG - $4.002, PUG - $4.388, Diesel - $4.92), I find their RUG price to be pretty accurate, perhaps five cents on the high side of what I see at the brand-name local stations. PUG is not accurate - I regularly purchase PUG at 20 cents below AAA's Pittsburgh average. Can't speak to Diesel prices as I don't regularly see them at the pump.
Maybe this will help pin down prices on diesel: http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/index.asp
http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/
Here are the state by state numbers.
http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/sbsavg.asp
Don't forget that the taxes vary a lot between states on gas and diesel as well. In the case of PA, they're getting an extra $.12/gallon in tax on diesel. PA, AZ, and IN are all in the 90th percentile for diesel taxes.
That is high on my list of reasons for liking diesel. The new Jetta should give you close to 700 miles out on the highway. I liked only filling once a day with my two diesel vehicles. It also gives you a chance to pick the lowest price when traveling.
Gas prices are dropping like a rock in San Diego. We are 50 cents under the peak price 5 weeks ago. Diesel is down about 30 cents. Diesel takes longer to react both up and down here.
Last I checked CA has the highest tax on diesel of all 50 states. Total fuel tax is 72 cents per gallon.
Year after year it was actually Honda Accord that sold most units to retail customers (you know, those transactions that you sell one at a time, not ten, fifty or thousand), topping even Camry (that has always had larger fleet content than Accord).
Without those kind of insights those numbers are pretty much useless when it comes to gauging retail consumer preferences.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I commend VW for perseverance against some pretty heavy hitters in the diesel haters group. So now they have beat the odds and passed the emissions tests. It will be interesting to see how high the oil companies run up the price of diesel. And how much extra the states tax diesel.
The diesel sedan starts at $22,640, including shipping, and the station wagon at $24,240, a premium of about $2,000 over a similarly equipped model with a gasoline engine.
It's a fickle thing.
I still hope that VW diesels make inroads in the market to save fossil fuel. I would never buy a gas VW. Just keep my current gas hogs.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/vw-tdi-jettas-eligible-for-1300-tax-credit.html
Another example of gov't unintended consequences.
No way.
And especially since I have a perfectly fine car, and that gives me the ultimate incentive to sit back, bide my time, and move in when the incentives start to roll out on the TDI Jetta, probably in a year or so.
The economy IS in bad shape. Diesel is not cheap. It would take a long time and a lot of miles to break even if you are buying a Jetta TDI versus a Jetta 2.5 gasoline model.
So I will wait.
Also, Honda/Acura and a few other makes are bringing sophisticated diesels to the U.S. market very, very soon, and this will only increase competition for buyers, thus pressuring prices down further.
:shades:
Please, sit down before reading further. ............ $26,999
That is insane. One buck short of $27,000 for a Beetle. :surprise:
I'll pass.
I noticed on the on the window sticker of the Jetta Sedan TDI they had an ADM of $4999. Final price, $29,XXX
I'll wait. Dealer Greed
http://www.larson-vw.com/VehicleDetails/1055886004
Let's hope that VWOA lets the dealers know that they are hurting the cause of VW with that kind of gouging on new vehicles. What can you say about used except buyer beware.
Because of “mostly” the weak dollar and exchange rate VW has done the following; They originally were going to build 12,000 TDI Jetta wagons and sedans combined for the MY 2009 to be distributed to 643 VW dealers in the US. That number has been dropped to 8,000 TDI combined for MY 2009. He also said they (most dealer, not VW) are adding about $4,000 over MSRP for the TDI’s
Bottom line, I guess, is forget the diesel for this year and see if the numbers increase for 2010.
No. Way.
The Prius did not and won't for Toyota.
The difference? Toyota actually builds and supplies their dealers with Prius' in the hundreds of thousands (soon to be building one million per year).
With diesel at $4.79 a gallon, RUG starting to fall in price (crude oil is falling), VW enjoying a small, cult-like following for TDIs (meaning - once pent up demand is satisfied, buyer pool for diesels among Americans isn't that great), and with dealers marking up the TDI version of the Jetta for as much as $10,000 more than the standard gasoline version -
THEY CAN KEEP IT!
Let's run through the math, shall we, using 15,000 miles per year:
I'll use mixed driving fuel average of the gasoline Jetta @ 24mpg (20 city, 29 highway).
I'll assume mixed driving fuel average of the TDI Jetta @ 44mpg (50 highway, 38 city).
I have skewed these figures IN FAVOR of the diesel Jetta, IMO.
Okay.
15,000 miles on the gasoline version = 625 gallons of gas per year (15000 divided by 24).
That equals $2431 in gas (with regular unleaded gasoline) per year @ $3.89 per gallon (625 gallons x $3.89).
Okay.
15,000 miles on diesel version = 340 gallons of diesel per year (15000 divided by 44).
That equals $1628 in diesel (with diesel) per year @ $4.79 a gallon (340 gallons x $4.79).
$2431 - $1628 = $803 per year.
So, UNDER THE MOST IDEAL CONDITIONS FAVORING THE TDI JETTA OVER THE GASOLINE JETTA, your break even point is about year number 9 with the premium that VW dealers are charging for the TDI Jetta.
If diesel stays high, and gas falls, all bets are off. If diesel and gas fall together in proportion, break even is still year number 9.
If you use less favorable figures on mpg than I used, which I believe are optimistic for the TDI unless you are a hypermiler, which is a PITA, your breakeven point will be more like 12 years.
If gasoline falls more than diesel, break even will be more like 14 years.
In other words, you are getting reamed if you pay the premiums dealers are asking for the TDI.
VW screws up yet again.
You always have the option to fix up what you've got. I've got an 02 Jetta with 197K on it. I fix what breaks when it breaks and keep on driving. I quite expect to get 300K out it. Diesels last.
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People who want to drive a car until it won't go any more are rare. Safety and convenience features alone are enough to get the largest demographic to change cars frequently (say it's pointless if you like, that is the reality). As far as lasting longer; I doubt it. The ex wife's diesel became undriveable at somewhere this side of 200K, and then only after many expensive repairs - she drives gassers now. The cab companies in my town use MB diesels which are very unreliable, and have not gone much beyond 200K. They are switching to Ford/Mercury CNG's, and would convert even more of them except for the spotty CNG supply problem. Their gasser have lasted well beyond 300K, and then only been taken out of the fleet due to frame failures. There is a lot of mythology surrounding diesels that will drive sales temporarily for the devoted, the curious, and the experimental. Its a car - if people like it enough to pay the premium and the costs, don't do much city driving, and even know they will trade it at five years, nobody will stop them. But it is not a silver bullet; like all cars it is a black hole for money, and another pollution machine. "Clean Diesel", or any "Green Car" term, is a Big Brotherism right up there with the best of the PR, marketing, and advertising BS. It makes people feel better, like ordering a Diet soda with a 1000 calorie fast food "meal". Bon Appetite!
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Maybe sometimes. I watched a few years ago as a family who owned a Volvo diesel take almost a year to sell it, and then for far less than the comparable gas Volvo's were going for. I expect the diesel premium, if any, may be related to the "cultist" aspect of diesel, of which VW would be the temporary beneficiary.
When I talk resale, I'm talking 5-6 year old vehicle or less. The diesel pickups hold their value fine and there's lot of choices and unlimited supply on the front end. Who knows what will happen but I wouldn't sweat a $1,000 or so premium these diesels should cost. It would take quite a swing to lose that premium in short order. And I have little doubt the Honda diesel will be any different. Probably even better in resale just because of their marketing positively effects their resale right from the start.
It looks to me like the Jetta TDI will be worth waiting to get a good deal. You will more than likely double your mileage over the gas version. And best of all you do not have to use the awful ethanol laced gas being sold these days. That will save you another 10% in fuel savings.
the Prius drives like sh*t and the interior is awful.
So, if money isn't the biggest driver, and you want a nice sports sedan that gets good milage, what are your other choices? The E320 mercedes?
Where do you get your ideas? That would likely ruin most diesle engines. In the EU some countries add biodiesel to diesel. That is NOTHING like ethanol.
E-diesel does not meet all the ASTM specifications for diesel fuel, it probably cannot be legally sold at the retail level in most states. The major concern with the use of E-diesel derives from its flammability characteristics.E-diesel blends containing 10% to 15% ethanol have the vapor pressure and flammability limits of ethanol. This means that ethanol concentrations in enclosed spaces such as fuel storage and vehicle fuel tanks are flammable over the temperature range of 13 to 42°C, typical ambient temperatures. Thus, there are increased risks of fire and explosion compared to diesel fuel, or even gasoline. Other vehicle performance-related concerns have also been raised. These include decreased maximum power, increased incidence of fuel pump vapor lock, and reduced fuel pump and fuel injector life due to the decreased lubricity of ethanol.
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/34817.pdf
Show us your link...
And a great option it is. They are available in CA in very limited numbers for lease. If I needed a 4 door sedan that would be the car i would buy. I wish my wife's 1990 LS400 would quit and I would be able to justify buying one for her. She loves MB diesel. That is what she owned when she bought her LS400 in 1989.
Ethanol is less efficient than gasoline or diesel, is corrosive, has caused food inflation, has caused farm runoff pollution (corn is a water and fertilizer intense crop), and is subsidized at the rate of 51 cents per gallon with your tax dollars.
If we're going to be forced to use ethanol, lets at least get sugar-based ethanol from Brazil, which without the corn-ethanol subsidy, would be close to $1.85 per gallon cheaper (we levy a 52 cent per gallon tariff on Brazilian cane sugar ethanol, which is still cheaper than corn-based domestic ethanol, in addition to the 51 cent subsidy paid to U.S. farmers).
Hybrid Camry is rated 33 city, 34 highway. Doesn't sounds like it's anywhere near as efficient as a TDI on the highway...even with $1.00 higher diesel prices.
And diesel is only $.75-1.00 more than gas recenty because gas has dropped $.35 in the last few weeks. I paid $3.66 to fill the Odyssey yesterday. Pump diesel here is running $4.59 and should see a correction within the week. The company I'm working with (mining operation....buys over two million gallons of fuel a month) has seen a $.30 decrease in the last week for our on-road diesel. The stations are usually a week behind our pricing on diesel for some reason. We're anticipating $4.05/gallon for on-road diesel within the next week. We usually pay about $.05 less than retail pump prices.