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VW Jetta TDI

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Comments

  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    still got 45mpg.... Isint it impressive that a car FULL of occupants can get that kind of MPG? A diesel engine LOVES to work hard because it is a 'torque monster'. Dont forget that the TDI engine will get better MPG as the engine "losens up" over about 40K miles.

    Also, I can attest that the "new" Jetta (Mark V) has much better rear occupant room than the Mark IV models. The Mark V also is significantly quieter both in roadNoise and engineNoise.

    I am curious - which dealer in VT did you go to? I drive from the Burlington area past 2 VW dealerships to get to "Kinney Motors" in Rutland. Kinney is perhaps the best VW dealership in Vermont. (Both the sales and the service)
  • ksmigelksmigel Member Posts: 56
    Honda's New Prius Fighter: 60mpg and Rumored $18,500 Price Tag

    http://jalopnik.com/400052/honda-hyb...-named-insight

    The Hybrid and MPG wars just got hotter - and consumers will benefit.

    Here's the confirmation of Honda delivering vehicles by April of next year:

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=130709

    Do a search and you will see Honda has confirmed a sub-19k msrp AND Honda will not allow dealers to 'mark up' prices.

    Competition is AWESOME!
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    I have read this news 2 days ago; but the car manufacturer is always inflating the MPG numbers to create the buzz, only to find out later the real numbers are lower than the fist rumured ones. We saw this happen with the 09 Jetta diesel when the first MPG numbers released were 51 MPG, and later the EPA certified the car for 41 MPG in the highway. My guess the new Honda hybrid will be close to what Prius gets now. The other thing is the New Honda hybrid is smaller than the Civic hybrid, that is why they can priced it at around $19,000.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    http://blogs.thecarconnection.com/blogs/marty_blog/2009/driving-the-new-2009-vol- kswagen-jetta-diesel/
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Good test drive article on the new Jetta TDI. This statement is one of the things that has sold me on modern diesel vehicles.

    I think plenty of drivers will be more than willing to trade high-rpm scream for enthusiastic low-rpm torque.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    Hopefully more drivers with the 06TDI will get a new 09TDI so i can have more to choose from. I personally want a Jetta TDI... But there is this grey 2.5 Package2 beauty selling for $11k and its had to resist! Eitherway, TDI or 2.5, I'll be saving (according to fueleconomy.org) lots of cash! $400/year for a 2.5 or $1,200/year for a TDI.

    Sadly, many dealers are still overcharging on the 06TDI. They are selling for $26k in my area.... Hopefully when the 09's arrive, they'll drop into my price range!

    -Cj
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    That article is biased. The fact that author explain in more technical detail the transmission of the Jetta, something that the manufacturer does not release to general public or to the automotive critics; tell me that he is an insider of VW. We have to wait until the first delivery of this vehicle arrives at the dealer, and see the different critics from the different automotive websites.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    There are a lot of glowing reviews for you to read from several auto mags.

    We did a few loops for rough mileage scenarios. One involved a highway out-and-back, run at 70-75 mph with a 2.5-mile leg on 7-percent grade descent and climb (where we accelerated to 85 mph in top gear) on the return. We finished the loop with the trip computer showing average speed of 72 mph and average economy of 40.7 mpg; at 90 miles the fuel gauge still read full. On a winding two-lane through rolling countryside, 50 mph average at 43.7 mpg. Driving like we stole it in city traffic still returned 23.1 mpg. That same day a 2.5 gas engine Jetta with five-speed manual over the same courses got between 15.4 and 28.1 mpg.

    Obviously, the diesel engine doesn’t parallel the slap-happy enthusiasm of the GTI’s mill. Nor can it rev as high; the TDI redlines at 4500 rpm. But the oil burner's punch is smoother and more linear than its petrol-powered equivalent. There’s no slingshot effect. You just woooooosh from 30 to 60 mph without an indices of effort. Plowing through highway traffic, hammering around tight corners, and sprinting up a hill, it's a thoroughly willing powerplant. You get a fairly quick-revving mill you want– without sacrificing the surging power you like. At any speed.

    Both transmission choices– the six-speed stick or the six-speed DSG (paddle shift flappy thingy with autobox mode)– are good to go. The DSG is perfectly matched to the oil burning engine, keeping you in the meat of the powerband at all times.

    http://www.autotrader.com/research/article/33895/2009-volkswagen-jetta-tdi-.jsp

    The test-drive confirmed that a TDI SportWagen would be a eminently livable choice for my next car, offering both outstanding fuel economy, as well as a fun-to-drive character missing in many similarly economical vehicles. Seeing that my purchase window is probably late calendar 2009, I'll let the early-adopter TDI groupies pay the above-sticker premiums, and deal with whatever quality issues there might be. By the time the 2010 models are out, I expect I'll be able to walk onto a VW lot and pay sticker, (or maybe a little less) and get a TDI off-the-lot. Here's hoping.

    http://blogs.dieselpowermag.com/6267840/diesel-car-reviews/test-driving-the-2009- -vw-jetta-tdi/index.html
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I only spent app 35 mins with the DSG. For the test ride, I was under the impression it was an automatic (aka, put it in drive and pointed the car) . It is truly seamless. I will try to test drive it again and "row my own" this next time around.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."I think plenty of drivers will be more than willing to trade high-rpm scream for enthusiastic low-rpm torque. "...

    I think this has ALWAYS been a key issue. I think as more (gasser) folks experience the difference, they can make the choice that best suits them. I have had 109,000 miles (70,000 like miles side by side with a Honda Civic gasser) to compare. Looking back, I would have had all those choices be DIESELS.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    Those two web sites do not prove anything. The 2009 Jetta TDI is still not delivered to anybody in the USA. Until then we'll have to wait, for reviews from customers and automotive critics and compare, what the common complaints, and the common advantages, that everybody agree upon. I did test the 2009 TDI, the transmission is so smooth that it disconnect me from feeling the road or the engine. By switching to manual mode you gain some control, but still as you shift from gear to gear, the transition is seamless, I do not know if that is good thing or bad thing; that is why I feel that I need more time driving that car to get better feeling about ups and down. By the way, I like the 09 TDI wagon, it looks like BMW wagon, very sporty, very good looking, you can drive it and you won't be ashamed driving a wagon. At $19,000 the wagon gasoline is a steal, anybody knows the price for the Diesel wagon??
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."Those two web sites do not prove anything."...

    Nor were they meant to: or even offered as proof.

    One key to the DSG transmission ( in view of your disconnect comment): it IS a computer controlled MANUAL transmission. For some on the other hand, it would be lost TOTALLY. There are HUGE advantages. One is there can be a disconnect if one likes/needs that. Having said that, I look at it in terms of how well it will stand up to 200,000 to 500,000 miles.

    As good and reliable as the Honda Civic (among others, aka Toyota, Mazda etc.) is, it is absolutely BORING compared to the Jetta TD I! Evidently boring sells and sells well. Now if VW can up their perceived (and real) reliability ratings, Honda/Toyota, etc. will have to almost exponentially increase their quality to compete.
  • morey000morey000 Member Posts: 384
    malmouza,
    I'm impressed that you were able to find a way to degrade having a smooth transmission. You are truly brilliant in your negative creativity.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Interesting also he has stated he owns a gasser VW and diesel Audi. Makes you wonder why not a Japanese nameplate that he so covets.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    I am realistic I state the facts, I do not read other people comments and follow them blindly. I have brain I used to compare; some stuffs make sense others don't. So, by nature I learned to make my own judgment based on the fact not fiction. So, you did not respond to my question; anybody knows the TDI wagon price??
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Pricing is available on this site. The one I priced out was pretty well loaded and MSRP was around $25,000 IIRC. If only they offered AWD I'd might pay MSRP for one. After further reviewing, the Tiquan isn't really my thing.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    Let’s stick to the subject, what is your impression about the DSG transmission for the new TDI?? did you get the chance to drive the 09 TDI?? if you did give us more details about your experience!!! And by the way I own 08 accord I4, my wife own jetta, and we have a vacation home and a car in Germany where we go twice a year, my father still drive the Mercedes 300d, those are beast they don't die, but again Mercedes is well known all over the world for their diesel cars.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    Thanks, I did talk before to one of VW dealer about the Tiquan; and he said the diesel for that small CUV will come early next year. It seams that VW will be using the same engine 2.0 turbo diesel.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."Let’s stick to the subject, what is your impression about the DSG transmission for the new TDI?? "...

    That is a good idea, as you have been told more than once to do just that. Honda/Toyota were mentioned as you have consistently bad mouthed the VW's ( the very cars that you own) A logic question would then be why do you even own them? ;) Indeed I have more Japanese nameplates than you do. ;)

    Impressions on the DSG transmission, I have stated in several posts. Go back over them if you are really interested.

    So if one wants it "disconnected" put the DSG in drive and zone out. If one wants a more active scenario, then shift the DSG every step of the way. Does one want a combination? Do able also. Looks like a series of good options to me, especially if it passes the reliability/durability/economy tests.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    I never bad mouthed the VWs; if you go back to my previous posts, none of them said VW is piece of crap, I always say that there are other options that might be a good for people that they have short distance of commuting to work; as the Diesel engine does love to reach certain temperature. But anyway, let's move on, The new DSG has more component that can go wrong and I am assuming that is costly to repair. Look at the price to repair a manual transmission versus automatic and you can see the big difference. Also if you compare the MT longevity and maintenance requirement and compare it to the automatic, you'll see that the automatic need oil change more often than MT, to keep it from breaking. This brings me to the conclusion that the new DSG may need changing oil more often than the old automatic transmission. Another thing is the fact that DSG has two clutches, may allow the transmission outlast the old conventional automatic transmission, assuming you follow the manufacturer schedule maintenance.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    I own VW RUG because is cheap to buy used one, versus buying a used honda. As you know Honda keep its value not like VW RUG. It's only logical if I am looking for a car for commuting and I want to use it until it dies, I am not going to care about resell value. There you have it. You sound like you own VW.. :cry:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."You sound like you own VW."... ..."

    Indeed both, glad you are finally acknowledging @ least half of what I said, after multiple indications.

    ..."I own VW RUG because is cheap to buy used one, versus buying a used honda."...

    A VW TDI retains much higher resale value over the RUG model.
  • rooski41rooski41 Member Posts: 6
    Well my dealer called me and asked which model I wanted. They recieved their list.
    He expects the delivery during the last week of August or the first week of Sept.
    I opted for the silver w/stick model...
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Drove an 09 TDI. Not fond of the DSG or spongy suspension. Wife has DSG in her A3 - worried about signs of wear that we're seeing at 25k miles (lots of clutch slipping). Wish the VW dealer had a TDI wagon 6 MT on the lot as I'd like to know how that car feels to really drive. The sedan isn't really an option as I already view the TDI as a compromise and shortterm car, but the sedan would be too big of a compromise.

    While the Jetta felt nice, engine good and overall quality seemed fine, I'm very worried the Jetta will be too soft and under-powered for me to use as a daily driver. Further, FWD is tought to live with day in and day out (I have it in my Cooper S and FWD really saps the fun from cars).

    Comparing the TDI to the GTI, Clubman S, Ralliart, WRX, used 3 series. So far as far as cost, fuel, resale the TDI is doing great - that $1300 tax CREDIT is a huge plus. On the fun-to-drive scale my wife's extremely worried I'll hate the car within 6 months. Haven't touched the Ralliart or 09 WRX yet. I know the e90 3 series well (got one via ED in 2006); don't love it but I miss RWD and it's one of the only 4 door RWD sedans that's decent to drive while getting fairly good gas mileage.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You sound like a candidate for the BMW 335d coming in about a month or less. They say it will outrun their gasser. That would be something to drive.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    That article is biased. The fact that author explain in more technical detail the transmission of the Jetta, something that the manufacturer does not release to general public or to the automotive critics;

    This statement is nonsense, the information was available to the general public. My brother bought a new 2006 TDI DSG and we knew the design of that DSG transmission before he made the purchase. We found information on the DSG in the fall of 2005 on the internet. This type of transmission has been aound a while in Europe.

    Here is just one site explaing how the DGS works:

    http://cars.about.com/od/thingsyouneedtoknow/a/ag_howDSGworks.htm
  • mariobgoodemariobgoode Member Posts: 114
    If you are in the Northeast, try Wyoming Valley Motors out in Wilkes Barre, PA. I got my order in, no down, ETA end of Sept or early Oct. I live in NYC but travel to PA a lot, so that was not much of a stretch for me. Your situation may be different. If you live near a big city, try the outskirts. You'll be surprised, people outside of NYC are so much more agreeable. Good luck.
  • littlerhodylittlerhody Member Posts: 22
    I live near the port in Rhode Island were VW's and Audis are brought in I assume for the northeast. Today I drove by the hundreds of cars waiting to be prepped and shipped. I did see a new Jetta TDI on a car carrier waiting to be shipped. There were others which seemed to be waiting prep work.
    Needless to say I am waiting for the call from my dealer to come in and pick mine up.
    Any other sightings?
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    I got a call this afternoon from my local VW dealer telling me he has 4 TDI Jetta sedans available, 2 DSG and 2 manual, didn't mention trim level.
    Too bad I already purchased a new car. I'm wondering why these are not sold? According to all/most of the dealers they were all "pre sold". Are people backing out? Maybe they were not all pre sold and not going as fast as they thought they would. If so, serves them right. :P

    I like the Taurus, I think. I haven't seen it thirteen days, but the wife tells me its great.
  • littlerhodylittlerhody Member Posts: 22
    Can someone give me some honest advice regarding which way I should go with the Jetta TDI (assuming I will have my choice). My last standard was a 1982 Ford F150. While I think I would enjoy the standard I wonder if it will get old. On the flip side, I keep my cars a long time (hence the diesel) and am looking for minimal maintenance.

    Any help or insight would be appreciated.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    For sure, the answers are probably more complex. From what I have experienced (35 mins test drive ) I thought the 09 VW Jetta DSG that I test drove, was for all intents and purposes as seamless as an automatic. I literally put the thing in "DRIVE" and just went. I did not "row" my own. I do want to test drive one again and go through the gears.

    To anwer your question, the standard (6 speed manual) WILL probably get old. I truly like the 4/5/6 speed manuals, but do NOT like them much in stop and go bumper to bumper traffic. However much of the driving I have found myself doing has not been of that type. On recent cars, I have maybe 431,000 miles on stick shifts. On the flip side I have had ZERO issues with manual transmissions. On VW's specifically, the life expectancy is app 400,000 miles. The cost to replace the clutch (upgraded V6 model) currently is app 700-800 dollars vs upwards of 2,000 for an automatic transmission. I have an automatic transmission on a Honda Civic. I suspect and have planned (started to set aside repair monies) for the automatic transmission to go before the engine. So truly @ upwards of $ 2,000 for repairs, I hope I can dodge that huge bullet. It is most likely to go out @ app 225,000 to 250,000 miles.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    The manual-shift xmission will inherantly have less troubles than any other xmission. If you know how to drive one, it never gets old and you do not even think about it.

    Also, the manual requires less maintaince.... which is apparently one of your priorities. A TDI with a manual xmission is VERY easy to drive due to the truckloads of torque. You can enguage the clutch at idle and the car will pull away from a dead stop without problem. If you drive a TDI in this manner, the original clutch will last the life of the engine. (over 200K miles)
  • c280c280 Member Posts: 21
    I picked up a Salsa Red Jetta TDI on Friday the 15th. I initially wanted the manual but ended up with the DSG. The dealer had a Black stick shift and a Salsa Red when I went in Friday afternoon. They called stating they received 4 or 5 TDIs. After driving the manual and the DSG back to back I decided on the DSG. Didn't feel the torque as much in the manual. I felt it more in the DSG. Paid MSRP based on first come first serve. I was expecting the dealer to get the Loyal Edition first but it appears that they only received TDI sedan and TDI wagon. Ended up paying for the sunroof ($1,000) and rubber mats ($199). By the time I got there, two of the TDIs were sold. I had a choice between Black/black manual or Salsa Red DSG with beige interior. Went with the DSG.
  • hwguyredhwguyred Member Posts: 1
    The DSG transmission is a very expensive piece of technology to repair and replace. Servicing the transmission at 40k mile intervals per VW recommendation will run you around $400 at a "stealership". If you are interested in info on the DSG and other TDI info a really good place to check out is TDIclub.com Thought I saw someone who has an 06/06.5 TDI with a DSG. Have you had any issues with the transmission? From what I read those years have an issue with the Dual Mass Flywheel flying apart and in one or more cases I have read about it trashing the transmission when it finally does give. I've decided to go with a manual tranny due to a number of factors: added cost of transmission in initial price and service costs, disconnected feeling you get from the car and road with an auto tranny, and lack of the ability to maximize fuel economy with techniques such as skipping gears, coasting in neutral, etc.

    The new engine would scare me more then the DSG, that combined with the brand new exhaust system *shudders* But I guess the federal mandate for exhaust components kind of makes me not so worried, and hell here where I live we don't emission check anyway :) Can't wait over the next couple of years to see what kind of mods show up :) I would love to have an engine brake...
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Sounds like a nice vehicle. Keep us posted on mileage and how you like the car. Welcome to the Forum.....What part of the country are you in?
  • donthegreekdonthegreek Member Posts: 127
    Yes...Please keep us posted on the mileage...were all interested in this issue!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I would agree with your first statement. Some posts back, I indicated a lack of DSG's with any miles @ 100,000, 200,000, 300,000 miles, etc. I am sure the "stealership" can and will charge a lot for the 40k transmission change. My dilemma is 3/4 of my drivers do not really like stick, and the DSG is preferable to an automatic for my $ 1,000, (or whatever the freight is)

    I have been present at a few clutch changings and a GTG buddy had done a series of mods on a GOLF (pp 520's, chipped, R32 suspension upgrade which led to another switch to Koni Reds, fine fine wheel and tire combinations) with 230,000 miles) I remember just before he decided to change the clutch (V6 SACHs upgrade) we had a long discussion. I in effect said not to and said my target was when it really started to slip or a min of 400,000 miles. I also asked him if when he got on his (mods) did he notice any slippage. He indicated no. So I asked the question why change now? Long story short due to a clutch change special he had it done. We all were curious beyond belief what a clutch with 230,000 miles would be like. Longer story short, it looked like it could have gone another 230,000 miles EASY. I am hoping for that on mine (460,000 miles)
  • ksmigelksmigel Member Posts: 56
    ...and I was considering a TDI Jetta for a while, however, they announced the fuel economy on the 18,500 dollar Honda Hybrid that will be released in April of 2009 to be 68mpg highway/60mpg city. It will be a 1.3 liter gas motor coupled with an electric one.

    I find this amazing. The Prius will have a market stealer to worry about. With a 10.5 gallon tank, this will yield a range of about 650 miles. That's a small tank, too!

    Also, Honda has denied any allocation of these cars to dealers who add any fees or costs to MSRP. That's a good move!
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    Driving a manual transmission is fairly easy; it takes some getting use to, and the reward is a total control of the car. I can make emergency stopping a lot quicker in short distance than in a car with automatic transmission. Using the gear and down-shifting in emergency stopping can some time save you a lot of body shop expenses, or save your life. The only thing I hate in MT is in bumper to bumper traffic you'll get cramps from using the clutch. Again, VW is covering the car for 60,000 miles or 5 years whichever comes first.
    By the way, I was reading the news this morning and I found this article in msnbc, about diesel fuel prices, I do not think that will bring anything new to some people because they already know these stuffs but for others that they never read about this subject this is a good to know. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26222711/page/2/
  • rog96rog96 Member Posts: 21
    Wow, that is a great move. Plus they'll be putting their version of a clean diesel in the bigger vehicles (no urea, but a special catalytic converter instead) like the CRV, Pilot, and hopefully the Element !
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    I know about this subject for almost 6 months now. They did mention this car is coming to US market, and it will be sold for $18,500, and it will be rated at 60 MPG; we will believe it when the EPA certifies the car. But, something that was not repeated in the headlines lately is the fact that the new hybrid will be smaller than the Civic, and that is why Honda will keep selling the Civic Hybrid a long with the new Hybrid car. This will tell you how small the car is going to be. Prius has enough space to carry 4 peoples comfortably, plus a convenient cargo space with hatch back door. The new Honda Hybrid would be a good commuter car, to replace the old discontinued Honda Insight, but with more space than the Insight. The pictures of the new Honda Hybrid are all over the internet they are just a spy picture because the car is still in camouflage.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Care to back that up with some documentation? The last press release I see is from four days ago stating it would be "cheaper than the Civic Hybrid and Prius" and "Honda has not released estimated epa ratings". There is also nothing about limiting allocation to dealers who add fees, etc. I'm not sure how Honda would even know what dealers are adding fees unless hey get complaints after-the-fact. It's not like Honda has had any products commanding over MSRP in quite a few years anyway...so they shouldn't have much historical data to work with.

    Either way, yawn at a small econo-box. I think most of us VW TDI folks are interested in a substantial vehicle that gets exceptional mpg. If you want to impress me, give me a 40-50mpg Accord sized vehicle. Or a 35mpg AWD cross-over.
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    "...it never gets old and you do not even think about it."
    ============================================================
    I spent a couple of decades in the auto repair business and can attest that manual transmissions do wear out and break with some regularity, and when the clutch and related components are included, are little, if any, more reliable than an automatic. Although not currently driving, I would never opt for a stick over an automatic as my experience in both owning and repairing sticks, the automatics can go 200K with only basic fluid changes while sticks will have long gone through clutches and related components, and possibly a complete transmission. This is further illustrated through drag racing where factory prepared automatics get consistently better average times, and don't self destruct in the process as compared to sticks.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    The allocation for this new hybrid is 100,000 cars the first year, and it will be built in USA.
    To answer your question that this subject came out a long time ago during the Tokyo Auto show is the two links bellow.
    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/01/14/075036.html
    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/latest_news_reviews/h- - onda_to_add_three_new_hybrids_2010_fit_cr_z_and_small_hatchback_car_news
    the new headlines are bellow:
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=130328
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    Although I agree with you on the fact that the MT can break the same way the automatic does, I will have to add to that "It depends who's driving the car"; if you are changing the gear before you press completely the clutch, or after the clutch been released, the answer is yes, the gears will be subject to extreme abuse. But still repairing an automatic is more involved than repairing a MT; That is reflected in the extra cost you pay for the Auto vs MT.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Drive in stop-n-go all the time. Always owned manuals. No cramps. :)
  • harry007harry007 Member Posts: 1
    Somebody tried to steal my car and broke the ignition switch ,my question is, is it possible to start the car or steal it without using the original key ?? And how is the security system working in VW cars ...?
  • ksmigelksmigel Member Posts: 56
    Care to back that up with some documentation? The last press release I see is from four days ago stating it would be "cheaper than the Civic Hybrid and Prius" and "Honda has not released estimated epa ratings".

    I don't have anything proving Honda is enforcing MSRP, but here are two links on price and EPA ratings.

    I still like the TDI, and think with its torque it will be useful in vehicles not suited for hybrid drivetrains, and I think competition on economy is good for all consumers!

    Here is a link on price of $18,500 MSRP and on Japanese claims of 71mpg (not confirmed by U.S. source):

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/honda-insight.html

    :surprise:
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Yes it is possible to start the car and drive it without the using a key or the original key.
    And the easiest/quickest way to steal a vehicle (without a key) is to hook it or flatbed it.
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