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VW Jetta TDI

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Comments

  • c280c280 Member Posts: 21
    North Carolina!
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Try six hours to go 60 miles in a snowstorm in Chicago. I got rid of my stick shortly thereafter. Some people's stop and go traffic is different than others.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    believe me if I tell you in two hours of crawling in bumper to bumper trafic will lead sometime to extreme fatigue for the legs. Try to drive in rush hours in van wck expressway in New York, or crossing the holland tunnel and hitting chinatown traffic and do it everyday and you will see how much stress you'll be subjecting your legs to. I drive MT all my life I don't like automatic, but still I hate traffic jum with the MT.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    I dont see 5 other cars on my 10-mile commute to work at 5:30AM.... Somtimes, in the winter, the road is plowed. 8-)
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    The gears themselves are the least of it. Bearings, shafts, bushings, seals, trans. case, shift linkage, clutch pedal, clutch master cylinder, clutch slave cylinder, clutch assembly, release bearing, pilot bearing, flywheel, multiple switches and controls, and more. Additionally, the "load on load off" nature of a stick going between shifts places more strain on the universal joints (CV), the differential, and the engine and transmission mounts, than with an automatic. Over time the costs will be about equal. The additional initial price of the automatic at purchase is largely based on the customers willingness to pay the premium. In the waning days of stick shifts in large US cars one had to pay a premium to get a stick over an automatic - and then only on special order.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    I would pay premium to get manual transmission. But the manual transmission will always outlast automatic transmission. My old man drive a mercecdes 300D for a years, 260,000 miles, he rebuilt the engine, couple months ago, because my brother he was driving it without checking the oil for hunderds of miles. The original transmission, is still working just fine. A lot of cab drivers in Europe drives mercedes, they never warried about the transmission, as much as they warry about the engine after 300,000 km.
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    "But the manual transmission will always outlast automatic transmission."
    ==========================================================
    As I mentioned earlier; as an auto mechanic for a couple of decades, that statement did not hold up. We frequently had to replace entire stick shift transmissions that were well beyond any kind of repair. We were almost always able to repair automatic transmissions. In my and my family's experience in both driving sticks and automatics in 40 plus cars, we never had to replace a single automatic but had to replace several sticks, plus the related hardware. The taxi companies where I live all have automatics, more than half are Mercedes, others are Ford and GM, and many of them have 300K miles on them. They would never consider a stick for many reasons anyway, but comparitive reliability is not a consideration.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Well that was years ago and I don't have to commute at all now.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Bull. Sorry but this is hogwash.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    This is a miracle that we agree. I have never had an automatic transmission fail. I had to replace the clutch in my son's 94 Toyota PU after 11k miles. No warranty coverage. That was $900 that I still despise Toyota over. There is a Mercedes Sprinter in the EU with 900k Km and still going with no major work done. It is a 5 speed tiptronic automatic.

    During High School in the late 1950s I worked in a wrecking yard rebuilding manual transmissions. Lots of synchro gears were worn out. Most manual transmission problems are caused by poor drivers. Riding the clutch destroys the throw out bearing and requires replacement. I would agree a smooth driver will get good service from a manual transmission. They are a rare breed in the USA.

    I would buy a vehicle with the new technology DSG transmission. I think there are several automakers using that technology now.

    The Bugatti Veyron 1000 HP sports car uses the direct clutch transmission. It is a 7 speed. Most of the German cars are using one type or another. Eventually the Japanese will catch up. They are great copiers.

    PS
    I would not buy a MT because my wife has very severe arthritis that would painful for her to drive a stick. She did enjoy a MT in both her 911 and 914 Porsches.
  • ksmigelksmigel Member Posts: 56
    This is John, not Karen.

    At any rate, anyone who claims that automatic transmissions are anything other than inherently more trouble-prone than manual transmissions (I'm speaking of true manuals) fails mechanics 101.

    That claim is so bereft of basic mechanical fundamental knowledge, I don't even know where to begin to disavow one of it, so I won't try.

    But I allowed myself to get dragged off topic.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    For people that got delivery of the new 09 Jetta TDI; could you share with us your MPG for the first couple miles? if you could not relay on the digital on board computer, try to refuel after couple miles and see the miles driven and the amount of diesel it took! Thanks again for sharing this information in this forum. Everybody in this forum is anxious to know the real life mileage. From my experience I know that the new EPA numbers are accurate if you are moderate driver not a racer.
  • obieobie Member Posts: 39
    Any one taken delivery of a TDI in NC/SC/southern VA?
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ....you're a bit premature in looking for feedback from new owners. Most dealers barely have their first truckload of TDI stock.

    I did find one wagon TDI buyer in SoCal who says he got 45 mpg during the 38 mile drive from dealer to home [DSG equipped car]. So there's your first number, for whatever it's worth....
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would expect the Sportwagon to get slightly better mileage even though they are rated the same. Back when the EPA actually ran tests the Jetta and Passat Wagons got better mileage as those designs have less air drag. There is one owner posting so far on the EPA fuel economy site. The Sportwagon with DSG is getting 46 MPG combined. That one from NH with 80% highway mileage. Pretty impressive for the size and weight.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Also, many people contend VW diesels tend to "loosen up" around 5k miles and mileage improves.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    The TDIs do "loosen up"... but it is more like 20k - 30K miles.

    Heck, my TDI is just peaked out at around 85K miles. (And I measure and spreadsheet every drop of fuel thru it!)

    Lets not forget that the TDI engine is rated for about 300,000 miles. (Taking the rated hours and asuming nominal driving speeds) Thus, it follows that it would take more miles to loosen it up.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Truly it is more like 40,000 to 50,000 miles. Technically @ those miles the engine develops full compression. This is in contrast to a normal (like model) gasser which develops full compression more like 1,000 to 5,000 miles.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    You may be correct that it is more like 40K -50K miles.
    Unfortunatly, a lot of folks are trading in their TDI just when the engine starts to "come to life".
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."Unfortunatly, a lot of folks are trading in their TDI just when the engine starts to "come to life". "...

    This might be one of the neat advantages of the TDI ! Malmouza hints at it in a past post. The good news and the bad news: the VW TDI NEEDS to be maintained. 100,000 miles is the"refresher" interval @ which the TB/WP change tune. AT 109,000 miles I am working on my 2nd 100,000 miles interval. :shades: The Honda Civic needs one at 105,000 miles.

    So far I have had 2 TSB's and just recently had to R/R the coolant sensor ($30 retail part)
  • icaticat Member Posts: 12
    Other than the dealer, where can I purchase a fuel filter for my 2006 TDI. When I bought the last one the dealership told me I would have to provide my VIN number because they changed designs three times in 2006. That sounds a little bogus to me.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Actually any place (locally) that will do Euro supply. Try to stay with OEM, Mahle, Mann. You can also do it on line: plethora of choice/s). TDI Club is another place with multiple sources. Here is a link

    link title

    You can sometimes get parts (common) from vendors at GTG's. Most in a quiet moment can/will special order for you.

    I have used BleachedBora, both on line and in person. He and his new wife are great folks to do business with. However in the interest of fairness, most other vendors on TDIClub.com are almost to the business: stand up !!

    Here are some state by state repair gurus

    link title
  • vwinvavwinva Member Posts: 71
    Suggest TDIparts.com Specialty on-line store for TDI parts.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I have also bought parts from them, another stand up vendor.
  • mariobgoodemariobgoode Member Posts: 114
    The choice of transmission is a personal one, because we all have our individual preferences and circumstances.

    My wife, my adult kids (two daughters, one son) and I prefer the manual because it gives us better control of the vehicle. The differences in upfront cost, fuel economy, insurance, frequency of repair & maintenance are pluses, but were not major factors in our decision. The fact that very few people can borrow or will steal my car is something I like. I enjoy driving and exchanging/sharing driving experiences with other drivers and I find that the chat is more animated when it is shared with drivers of manual shifters.

    I live in a big city, and driving in stop and go traffic is something I dislike, but the inconvenience most often is tolerable or short-term. If I find myself stuck for what would be longer than half an hour, I would just turn off the engine, or pull over, grab a bite to eat or something, and let the traffic cool down. Like everybody else, I hate bumper-to-bumper driving but not as much that I would prefer to drive an automatic because I do most of my driving on the highways anyway. To commute, I walk and ride the subway.

    It is my opinion, and this is debatable, that driving with a manual also makes the driver more aware of the engine's operation and the factors affecting the movement of the vehicle, because he/she has to adapt to changing conditions which may require the shifting of gears, up or down.

    Bottom line is, I am happy with my choice, Your experience may vary from mine. Driving should be fun and when it you feel it is a chore, it becomes boring. Go with what you enjoy. Happy motoring.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    I agree with your post. I have trouble staying awake in traffic if I'm stuck with an automatic. Plus my left foot puts a hole in the floorboard.
  • mrstacymrstacy Member Posts: 34
    I got 44.5 mpg on a 300 mile trip which included a 45 minuite stop and go traffic. It is funny seeing the computer mileage go up. I bought it at 5 miles or so and the computer showed 18 mpg. I thought it would never stop going up.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Just imagine what kind of MPG you will get after about 30,000 miles to loosen-up the engine...

    (I would expect over 52MPG)
  • c280c280 Member Posts: 21
    Today is one week since I picked up the Salsa Red. My drive to work is a local drive, 15 to 20 minutes one way (no school traffic) with a few traffic lights. Driving back from work I take the highway, about 10 minutes and then some local driving. Over the weekend, drove to church, about 30 minutes one way, mostly highway and then a bit of local driving with a few traffic lights. I stay within the speed limit, that is 45mph local and 60-65mph highway(mostly 60mph). On my way home this afternoon, I looked at the computer. It showed 258 miles and 31mpg. This includes my test drive at the dealership before I decided to purchase it. After one week of driving I have a little more than 1/2 tank of diesel remaining.
  • c280c280 Member Posts: 21
    I thought when I drove the Loyal edition (demo) that the build sheet showed stability control and traction control and ESP as all standard equipment. After picking up the Jetta Sedan TDI-DSG, I realized that the build sheet did not show either stability control or traction control, it only showed ESP. Are stability control and traction control options that could have been added or were they to be standard equipment per VW specs?
  • cosmocosmo Member Posts: 203
    ESP is VW's electronic stability program. The program provides both electronic traction control and electronic stability control.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    You really should read-up on all of the features which are built-into a modern ABS system.

    Basically: EACH WHEEL can be individually sensed and braked. Couple this with G-force, yaw and steeringwheel-angle sensors. Now the computer can become involved with applying brakes or cutting throttle based on the sensor-inputs.

    I beleive ESP also includes (ABS, EBD, HBA, ASR, EDL and EBA)

    ABS - Antilock Braking System
    EBD- Electronic Brakeforce Distribution
    HBA - Hydraulic Brake Assist
    ASR - Anti-Slip Regulation
    EDL - Elecrtonic DIfferental Lock
    EBA - Emergancy Brake Assist

    This website helps explain.

    NOTE: This also means that you better REPLACE that DOT4 brakefluid every 2-3 years to keep moisture out of the hydrolic system. (The brakefluid is also shared with the clutch)
  • cosmocosmo Member Posts: 203
    You are correct regarding all the components of VW's ESP. However, I was only addressing c280's expressed concerns. I did not get the impression that c280 was asking for a detailed sanctimonious lecture on the topic.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I received a letter from the EPA Office of Inspector General. They say complaints about EPA mileage ratings is not within the purview of the OIG. They have listed a person I might call and complain to. As I suspected no one will want to accept the responsibility for this glaring error that will cost each one that purchases the new Jetta TDI. I will pursue the vague lead given and keep you posted. I believe the new Jetta TDI is deserving of the same or more tax credit than any of the hybrids.
  • c280c280 Member Posts: 21
    "I believe ESP also includes (ABS, EBD, HBA, ASR, EDL and EBA)"

    I checked out the VW site you referred to, however, I'm positive that I saw stability control and traction control as options on the '09 TDI build sheet I saw circulating on the internet. Plus when I drove the Loyal Edition (demo) and took my foot off the gas pedal the EBD was so effective slowing down the car to the point where I had to re-apply the gas pedal again because the car had slowed down more than I was anticipating. Someone even commented online that this was the reason why they preferred the stick shift because it allows coasting but the DSR does not. Now with my '09 TDI-DSR sedan, when I take my foot off the gas pedal the car does not slow down to the point where I had to re-apply the gas pedal. With my car I have to apply a little brake and then the computer apparently senses it and then gears it down. So this just leaves me wondering about the ESP, stability, traction controls and EBD. Maybe the Loyal edition is just different from the TDI. Maybe someone who has test driven the Loyal edition and purchased the TDI can share their experience. Thanks.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    While I think the stability and traction controls are good concepts, and indeed I have all of the above (made by Bosch) on a 01 Chevrolet Corvette Z06, even the designers of the automobile caution: the systems do NOT " transcend the laws of physics".

    In 73,000 miles, I think the only time the stability/traction controls so called "kicked in" (non intentional anyway) was on the Hoover Dam, CA/NV/AZ (post 9/11) when they put check points Alpha/Beta @ both access directions, due to the suspicion it was considered a likely terrorist target. It "kicked in" at considerably less than 5 mph on a slight downward drop off of the pavement !!?? :confuse:

    My other take is that to increase awareness of the upper parameters/boundaries, one should periodically intentionally take it to the edge and beyond (controlled safe conditions of course). This seems highly unlikely for the majority of the systems users populations. :surprise:
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    It seems to me that you really need to read the window sticker and the owner's manual to see what the car actually has or doesn't have. Or, call the dealer and have them it explain what your car has or doesn't have. Good luck with the new car. Can't wait to continue to read your updates on its economy and performance.
  • micosilvermicosilver Member Posts: 212
    Plus when I drove the Loyal Edition (demo) and took my foot off the gas pedal the EBD was so effective slowing down the car to the point where I had to re-apply the gas pedal again because the car had slowed down more than I was anticipating. Someone even commented online that this was the reason why they preferred the stick shift because it allows coasting but the DSR does not. Now with my '09 TDI-DSR sedan, when I take my foot off the gas pedal the car does not slow down to the point where I had to re-apply the gas pedal. With my car I have to apply a little brake and then the computer apparently senses it and then gears it down

    What slowing the car down is the engine. The compression ratio is very high, and when you are coasting in gear - the engince breaks the car. I found that sometimes it is usefull to shift to neutral while you are coasting, you will go at least thee times as far, and the diesel mileage goes up.

    Mico
  • littlerhodylittlerhody Member Posts: 22
    Still waiting for the call from the dealer saying my Jetta tdi is in. I was told by the sales person that the auto 6 speed gets slightly better mileage than the standard. While this flys in the face of logic (especially looking at the previous post) could it be that the auto is so efficient that it could deliver better mileage under normal driving conditions?
    In choosing between the auto and MT it may come to which one becomes available first, and I am told that is likely to be the auto.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    The compression ratio is very high, and when you are coasting in gear - the engince breaks the car.

    Breaks the car?! Egad, who would sell an engine that breaks the car if you coast?

    Engine braking is normal though...

    In choosing between the auto and MT it may come to which one becomes available first, and I am told that is likely to be the auto.

    You may want to ask your dealer for a breakdown of just the maintenance costs of the DSG. It's extremely expensive to maintain compared to a manual.
  • jim314jim314 Member Posts: 491
    Supposedly automobile diesels have less capacity for engine braking than gasoline engines, and not more. Big rigs can have a special engine brake (a "Jake" brake*), but auto diesels don't have these.

    The high compression ratio of the diesel (CR 18:1) does not cause higher engine braking. A diesel does require more energy than a gasser (CR 10.5:1) to compress the air on each compression stroke, but this energy is recovered on the subsequent expansion stroke because all that high pressure air is now releasing its energy to the piston.

    If this were the only difference between the diesel and the gas engines, then the two would have the same capacity for engine braking. But there is an additional difference--the diesel does not have a throttle in the air intake, whereas the gasser does. So when you let off the accelerator pedal in a gasser to coast in gear, the throttle closes, and this increases the vacuum in the intake manifold, causing a drag on the engine. The diesel has no throttle and so is a more efficient air pump, and hence has less engine braking.

    Comparing a traditional manual tranny to the "automatic manual" DSG, I wonder what the downshift behavior of the DSG tranny is? If the DSG tranny stays in a higher gear while coasting, then it should be no more efficient on coasting than the manual. Overall the DSG is evidently listed by EPA as very slightly more efficient, maybe because the shifts are instantaneous. Also the average driver would probably not shift at the optimum points.

    *A Jake brake works by opening the exhaust valve near TDC on the compression stroke, releasing the pressurized air into the exhaust pipe. So the energy in the compressed air is not recovered and this acts as a large drag on the engine. This makes a loud and irritating noise so the use of engine brakes is prohibited in a lot of places.
  • zukeeny1zukeeny1 Member Posts: 2
    My wife and I took delivery of a Laser Blue TDI Loyal Edition Sedan this past Wednesday in North Houston, after waiting for about 3 weeks.Our salesman was very courteous from the very first test drive in the demo white unit they had on the lot. Jason asked us to put down a $ 500.00 credit card deposit to have our name on the call list. We told him that we would like the car in the Laser Blue color. Jason said he would let us know when he found out what ones he would be getting first, and followed up regularly with information. He gave us the price up front of
    $25,850.00. We really like the car a lot, and I'm sure we will enjoy it for years to come. The whole experience was almost pleasant, including the simple satisfaction of handing them the keys to a 2002 Buick Century that had so many "check engine, Service Engine Soon, Trac Off malfunction " lights on the dash, that even some of those bulbs were starting to burn out. Even the LED odometer slowly faded out to nothing, so I had to tell the Dealer the estimated milage of around 110,000 miles. Never ever another GM product for me, never.
    I have read this discussion thread regularly for about 2 months now, and I have to thank all of you for your well rounded knowlege on this car, both older ones, and about the new one sitting in my garage. It has been informative, entertaining, and fun to read all of your candid comments, and it helped me decide to go ahead with this purchase. I will send a photo or two, once I figure out how to do that.
  • littlerhodylittlerhody Member Posts: 22
    I had a feeling the dealership would call on my 50th birthday. They have a dark blue (not sure what they call it) standard Tranny and sunroof. Didnt really want the sunroof. I suspect they are adding these upsells figuring most people will not let it pass by. They all had them. Ran over to look at it. Next to the black, which I thought I would want more, the blue was outstanding and shows off the crome. Sold, approx $23,800. Will pick up tomorrow. Now begins my journey into diesel land and back to an MT.
    Will report back with mileage, etc.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    " I found that sometimes it is usefull to shift to neutral while you are coasting, you will go at least thee times as far, and the diesel mileage goes up."

    This is just plain wrong information! All modern fuel-injected engines actully CUT OFF FUEL INJECTION during overrun. You will ALWAYS get better MPG by leaving in gear during decelleration till the last possible moment.

    As long as the engine speed is above the idle speed, there is 0 fuel injected. As soon as you push the clutch and let the engine idle, it starts to burn fuel to keep itself running.

    Also, the reason a diesel engine has less "engine braking" is because there is no throttlePlate on a diesel engine which forces a gasoline engine to suck against it when it is closed.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Welcome to the forum. I think you made a wise choice. Keep us posted on your impressions and the MPG.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Now that VW is selling TDIs in North America again... this would be a great time to remind new owners that careful break-in of their new TDI can GREATLY improve power/ MPG later in the engines life.

    The "secret" is to consensly seat the rings under pressure so they make a good seal BEFORE the cylinders begin to glaze. Use the pressure of the turbocharger to do this. (Bursts of full throttle accelleration followed by gentle driving to cool things off.)
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    You may get better mileage by leaving the car in gear, but you will coast much much further in neutral, and a diesel uses practically no gas while ideling, so in the real world coasting in neutral will yield the best mpg.

    You can easily coast a mile if you put the car in neutral at 65 mph, and for that mile you will be getting a coouple hundred mpg.

    Rule of thumb for coasting at idle for a gasser - your mpg is about 3-4 times your speed. Diesels use less fuel at idle so this is even higher.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    and a diesel uses practically no gas while ideling,

    It uses "NO" gas

    I know I’m being picky, BUT you might want to start using the word “diesel’ or “fuel” instead of gas because it is not gas. In ideal conversation it could cause confusion and maybe even disaster.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    I just wanted to ask this question here in this forum, may be somebody knows about this issue. I read last week that the new diesel fuel is cleaner because they got rid of the sulfur, we all know that, but what we don’t know that sulfur had some characteristics of lubricant and it helps old engine that were designed for the old Diesel fuel. Now, the question does this means that the new diesel with sulfur free will damage the old engines over time?? Because according to what I read, the only way to avoid damage to the old diesel engine is by using mixture of Biodiesel and regular diesel this will add up to 60% of lubricant in the mixture. If this is true, I don’t think it will be wise to buy the old diesel cars, unless you’re going to start mixing your own fuel.
    For the new diesel engines, there is no problem, they were designed for the new sulfur free Diesel, the lubrication is done by the engine own oil, and own cooling system. Anybody have anything about this subject? Tks.
  • jim314jim314 Member Posts: 491
    The first processes used in the US to reduce sulfur levels in diesel fuel did produce fuels with insufficient lubricity for some engines. But I have read that the current processes for producing ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) do not have this shortcoming, and the current fuels meet the required standards (ASTM) for lubricity. I am pretty sure that a 10-year-old VW TDI could use ULSD without damage.

    From Fred's TDI FAQ http://tdiclub.com/TDIFAQ/TDiFAQ-3.html

    Low sulfur - Lower sulfur content fuel is becoming more common as the limits of sulfur dioxide and other acid rain producing emissions tighten, and as it becomes necessary for manufacturers to use emission control components that do not tolerate sulfur in the exhaust from the engine.
    There is a somewhat mistaken impression that sulfur in the fuel acts as a lubricant for injector pumps, and this impression stems from an older chemical process to remove sulfur which also removed other chemical compounds in the fuel that were completely unrelated to the sulfur but which turned out to be important to the lubricating properties of the fuel.

    But you might want to read this link http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5375/is_200602/ai_n21409063
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