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VW Jetta TDI

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Comments

  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    I am wondering if the new 09' Jetta TDI's will have the same problem with carbon/gunk build up in the intake manifold and EGR system?
    The 1.9 ltr TDI's could carbon up enough to eventually stop the engine, and the clean up process is expensive, dirty and doesn't really solve the problem.
    I have heard that the new 2 ltr TDI engine is a complete re-design, so am curious if anyone has heard that the clogging up problems of the older engines has been resolved.

    All common rails are not created equal. Many Liberty CRDs experienced EGR valve failure early (22k miles on mine) due to LSD fuel. Failures dropped dramatically after ULSD fuel was widely available (40k miles on 2nd EGR valve and still going). Punch a CRD and lots of black smoke goes out the exhaust. The Dodge Sprinter with the Mercedes engine is a very clean diesel engine. I see them a lot where I work. They are driven hard and I have never seen even a wisp of smoke go out the exhaust on one.

    I just inspected the intake on my 2005 PD Jetta TDI last week and there is very little carbon build up at 87k miles. If it happens to need cleaning it’s not technically difficult and I can live with it.
  • drea83079drea83079 Member Posts: 3
    For those who are interested, I live in NH and was watching TV and noticed a commercial for some TDi 09 Jettas still in stock at Lakes Region VW. I mention this because when I first purchased mine I was told I could expect to wait for about 6 months or more (this was in June of 08) for a car as they were high in demand. I ended up purchasing the dealership test model when VW made them available for sale to the public. I got the $28k plus version of the Jetta with Sirius and all of the other bells and whistles for the same price as the base model TDi. So far, I love my new Jetta. Its great on gas, and has saved me tremendously in costs as I traded in my old Subaru for the new Jetta. WAY better fuel efficiency! I have near 13,000 miles on my Jetta, and have had no problems. I love it.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    I wonder if your TDI intake system had been cleaned at some past milage? The VW service people claim that a 2 mm buildup of carbon inside the EGR and intake manifold is acceptable and normal.

    It' been suggested that a lot of urban driving contributes to the build up, but longer drives where the system gets hot, will help keep the crap moving through the engine, like it's designed. Any thoughts?

    The local VW shop recommends that the TDI intake manifold and head should be completly removed, soaked in a strong solvent and blown out, not any kind of chemical flush used on the engine. At over a hundred dollars and hour for shop rate now, that would be a nasty bill.
    I am seriously considering a new 09 Jetta TDI. So call me a Nervous Nellie if you must, but no solid information on the re-designed engine does bother me.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    Still poking around the internet trying to find answers to my 'cloging question'
    I wonder if this posting from "Freds TDI' is getting close to the secret of why some TDI engines do and others..don't..............

    "Oils that lack the CG-4 or CH-4 rating don't have the same level of anti-foaming and soot-dispersing capability. The best quality diesel-engine oils deal with it and render the soot as harmless to the engine as possible. Oils that don't meet the CG-4 or CH-4 ratings can't handle as much soot, so you need to change them sooner.

    Finally, cheaply made oils (not the same as cheaply priced ...) usually won't have the same resistance to breakdown at high temperatures, that good quality oil does. High temperatures are found in the turbocharger. When oil breaks down at high temperature over a period of time, it "cokes" or builds up deposits in the high-temperature areas, which then restrict lubrication. Bye-bye, turbo."

    If you buy a "Pre-loved" VW, you don't really know what oil has been used for changes. The VW recommended motor oil is expensive and hard to find, so if my intuition about human behavior is even half right, some V W's have been fed the wrong oil after the dealership services are over...and then I have heard that even they can't be trusted to always use the right product.

    Makes you wonder if this is the a big part of the answer...
  • chuckycheesechuckycheese Member Posts: 13
    I had a 2000 TDI which had a severe case of carbon/gunk buildup. 3 different dealers could not determine source of problem (after charging me for diagnosis time). Independent shop told me what was wrong as soon I explained problem without even looking at car. I now have a '06 TDI with @45K on odometer & no problems. I believe ultra low sulfur diesel may have something to do with no gunk buildup. I could be wrong.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Did you drive your '00 model differently than your new one? From what I've seen, driving easy and not reving the motor caused the build up. Several of the folks I knew that had that problem always drove conservatively for maximum economy. I drove mine pretty hard, usually at least one WOT per day, and never had an intake problem. Mine was over 150k miles when it got totaled and it was still quite clean. Had about 1/8" of "soot" inside. So not bad. Just curious how you drove that earlier model.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    "Independent shop told me what was wrong as soon I explained problem without even looking at car."

    Hey chunky, mind sharing with us exactly what they told you? So far there have been several theories presented as to the Coking problem.
    i.e. wrong oil, bad diesel fuel, lugging the motor to save fuel, and mostly city driving.

    Hold your nose and watch this video of a unique way of cleaning out the Crud in a TDI manifold!

    http://www.errachidia.org/video/video-tdi-2-oet4qWeZuYA.html
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    I wonder if your TDI intake system had been cleaned at some past milage?

    I doubt it very much. I don't think the previous owner even changed the air filter or the fuel filter much less had the carbon cleaned. I have never seen an air filter bulged out over an inch in the middle and a fuel filter this corroded.

    It' been suggested that a lot of urban driving contributes to the build up, but longer drives where the system gets hot, will help keep the crap moving through the engine, like it's designed. Any thoughts?

    There is evidence from the nature of the tire wear that the car was driven hard, or at least braked hard.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    No, engine oil is not part of the answer - unless the oil is so bad the engine never breaks in. Properly maintained TDIs use a tiny amount of oil. An engine would have to use a huge amount of oil to plug up an intake manifold. The carbon build up comes from the fuel by way of the EGR valve and some small amount of blow-by fed back into the intake ahead of the turbo. And, the blow-by is mostly unburned fuel containing soot, not engine oil.

    To the extent that there is a design defect in TDIs, that defect is that the engines have EGR valves. The 2009 TDI has the advantage of burning ULSD fuel from the start.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    I drove mine pretty hard, usually at least one WOT per day, and never had an intake problem. Mine was over 150k miles when it got totaled and it was still quite clean. Had about 1/8" of "soot" inside.

    My '05 TDI looks like it might have around 1/8 inch of soot by the time it hits 150k miles. The previous owner must have abused it just about right. ;)
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    I have heard that using ULSD in earlier Jettas will be good for them, but using regular diesel would be an instant disaster for the exhaust systems in the new ones.

    There's lots of chatter on the internet about how great 'clean diesels' are now, so hopefully the ULSD will become avaliable at more stations.

    Honda has a new 4 cyl, clean diesel on the way in the Accord later this year..so that might finally break the ice and get the oil companies into the 21 century.

    Postings like this road test of a nice 06' have got to be helping wake up the public....(the car has ben sold)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5aDihD1AqI&feature=related
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    Well, I found a 'shadow blue with grey leather' pckage 2 Jetta in the Utah Auto trader for $14885. It had about 70,000 miles and looked to be in minty condition.
    When I was able to contact the dealer about it today, they told me it had a "blown turbo" and was going to the dealership wholesale auction...tomorrow.

    Then they said what would you offer us for it?

    Keep in mind I live 1000 miles away and have no idea of what the repairs could come to, and if they did they weren't saying.
    Sorry to say I choked and told them I could not imagine what a dollar figure for the Jetta might be under these circumstances and said, take it out back and put it out of it's misery.

    Other than that it was just what I am looking for.......... :cry:
  • shriftyshrifty Member Posts: 255
    From what little I know, I'd say about a grand for the turbo or so. Also, to the rest of the board, how would one blow a turbo? Would it be from abusing the car? Or just happen to be a faulty part?
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    It's usually just a sensor that's bad and the dealers mis-diagnose it as being the turbo.
  • shriftyshrifty Member Posts: 255
    If that's the case, then this car could end up being a fairly decent deal.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would think someone buying at auction would bid figuring a new engine and transmission. No way to know on either one. Could be other problems also. I don't see it bringing much at auction. Though someone could make a lot of cash if it is something simple.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    on highways i've been driving in the right lane real slow due to no more hurry - driving the actual speed limit or within 5 mph.
    mpg is up from 45 mpg to 55 mpg, but the tailgators in the right lane may be worse than those in the left!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    You are setting someone up for this.

    Indeed by default and posted and printed LAW the FAR right lane is the ONLY lane not required to move out of the way of oncoming/overtaking vehicles. (keep right except to pass)

    You are perfectly within your rights to be a RLC' er (right lane camper) !!!! STAY the COURSE !! ;)

    On a more serious note as you probably would agree, as the far right lane has become or has BEEN the DEFACTO fast lane- often times I go to the slow left of the right lane to let them go by. :shades: :lemon:
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I always felt one of the big advantages of the TDI was the ability to run 75-80mph and still get 45+mpg. Plus it felt very nice at those speeds. My short-lived relationship with an '07 Civic was the exact opposite. Felt like a schooner at 80mph and took a big dive in mpg. Your poor car is probably embarrassed to be clogging up the right lane....born to run!
  • c280c280 Member Posts: 21
    Would you make the leap to the Tiguan TDI if VW brings it to States or would you stick with your Jetta TDI?
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    I would SERIOUSLY consider replacing my Dodge Dakota with 4.7L V8 with Tiguan TDI... PLEASE VW put them on the ship to USA!!

    In fact, my wife and I test-drove a 4X4 Tiguan just today. (not diesel) Using the ABS-pump to supply pressure to the parking-brakes is a GREAT idea. (no more parking-brake lever with cables to seeze-up)

    I would prefer to have a MANUAL xmission ...but it is not available with 4X4.

    I DO NOT like the fact that the 2.0L turbo engine requires PREMIUM gasoline. The salesman are very good at not mentioning that little tidbit.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I also like the Tiguan. The 2.0L TDI would give me the incentive to part with some cash for a new SUV. Right today I am watching for a good buy on a lightly used ML320 CDI prior to the UREA injected model. The MB is more luxury for sure. Just not quite the mileage I would like to get from an SUV. Not a chance I would buy the Premium guzzling gas version of the Tiguan or the Touareg. I was interested in the V6 Touareg TDI until I found out they are going with that lame UREA system to please CARB.
  • shriftyshrifty Member Posts: 255
    Depending on the real world mileage, absolutely! I would rather have an SUV than a sedan. I didn't really want the Jetta in the first place, but for me the car is way to practical and what I need in a vehicle. Depending on how big a hit I would take on the trade in and the increased fuel expense, I would have to think about it.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I was very interested in the Tiguan TDI and might still be if they would bring it. My Jetta was totaled a couple years ago and I tried a new Civic and sold it after a few months. I took on a new contract that has me commuting 60 miles of twisty/hilly roads shared with lots of coal buckets. I'm pretty happy making the commute in my Tundra at this point from a safety and utility standpoint. 17mpg sucks but the fuel savings would never pay for a new TDI. Not at the prices they're selling for and my relatively short commute. I used to do 30k a year so the fuel savings really added up.
  • c280c280 Member Posts: 21
    I test drove the '09 BMW 335d. What are ride! That car is so responsive, the acceleration, the braking. But the price is outrageous like the AIG bonus. Also the trunk is smaller than the '09 Jetta TDI, plus it uses urea and run-flats. But the ride is amazing. After I drove the BMW I couldn't stop wondering if VW would ever put the twin turbo in their diesels?

    What do you think?
  • sandman52sandman52 Member Posts: 36
    I have a 2005.5 Jetta TDI, live about 60 mile north of Mpls, MN, and while I do have a garage, and a tank heater to give the engine a little pampering when it falls below zero, once I get to work, it has no such comforts, and will often set out for 8 hrs or more at well below zero temps ( I think we went nearly two weeks without going above zero in Jan. with several -30 or colder days) and no problems starting. I don't think you need to worry about it being reliable in the MN. :)
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    Tomorow I am going to look at a 2006 Jetta TDI that is for sale by owner. It's white with grey leather interior.
    It has the Package 2 options including the power memory seats, steering wheel contols, sun roof, new tires and auto trans. The car has 61,000 miles of mostly hyway driving and has had the VW service shedule since new.

    He wants $15,900 dollars for it and seems kind of sentimental about it.

    From what I am seeing on the car lots and eBay I don't think I am going to find much that comes close to this deal...

    Anyone have any thoughts?
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    My thoughts would be to buy a new one. I have seen a dealer that has a dozen of them in the $21k range. They are going below invoice now because fuel is cheap.

    The new vehicle will cost a little more, but it has a full warranty and the new more powerful engine. Also much higher resale value.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I agree. It is very likely you could buy now for $21k and sell in a year for $24k. I know as I made $3k in a little over a year buying a new 2005 Passat TDI.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    I have now driven three 06 TDI's and find a 'lag' everytime I start through an intersection. If I goose it a little it will then be gone like Jack the Bear, but slowly easing the throttle down doesn't seem to make the 06's happy.

    I did my first test drive in a brand new 09' TDI this week and found it to be as smooth as silk everytime I did the intesection test. No hesitation, no stumble, felt great. Very quiet car, and power to spare up to about 70 then it got kind of lazy.

    In Montana, Idaho and Utah, the 09's are flying off the lots as soon as they are off the truck, except Great Falls where the dealer is asking $2000.00 over sticker and seems fine with the obvious price gouge.

    In todays market I don't think people are that gung ho about being shafted for an extra $2000.00 just because the dealer has got away with that crap in the past.

    Idaho...have 'lists' and people with deposits taking the first ones to hit the lot, but at least they are sticking to the MSRP.

    Utah.... lots of stock but no discount deals anywhere either...(so far)

    Texas seems to have lots of Jettas of all years and models but so far I havn't seen any incentives like 09's for $21,000

    I think the advice to spend an extra few Thou' and buy a new 09' is good advice, considering all the issues of paying $16 to $18,000 for a used one off waranty.

    Hell, I have looked at several used 06's Jettas that they still want $21,000 for, a car that cost $24,000 3 years ago.

    Right now, VW has the market cornered on the green Diesel that gets great mpg's, but there is going to be a new Kid on the Block later this year when Honda rolls out the popular Accord in a TDI option that gets the same or even better mpgs than the Jetta.

    Might be a good idea right now to hang tough for a few months and see what the fall market will bring..

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9712548-7.html
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Indeed.

    But at the same time, when one already has a TDI, even after running the numbers, it is still attractive to keep it (03 TDI with 114,000 miles).
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    Tomorrow I’m going to look at a 2005 Beetle GLS TDI 5spd manual with 21,400+ miles on it. (Yes, I know, this is the Jetta thread, but I was too lazy to look up a beetle thread). Besides, I miss you guys, sort of. :D
    The dealer is asking $18,999, Blue Book is $19,150
    Any thoughts on the price. Seems like there are used TDI’s showing up on the lots these days.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    I have now driven three 06 TDI's and find a 'lag' every time I start through an intersection. If I goose it a little it will then be gone like Jack the Bear, but slowly easing the throttle down doesn't seem to make the 06's happy.

    Longo2, my '05 is either lazy or zippy. I was reading the owner's manual and discovered that there is a dual mode program in this vehicle (maybe in the 06 also). I think it was referred to as 'economy mode' and 'sport mode'. I'd have to look again to be sure. Mine drives almost lethargic at low throttle settings in economy mode. I don't know whether it's throttle position or how fast the pedal is moved that sets it off, but when sport mode kicks in it's like a different vehicle. :surprise:
  • gfr1gfr1 Member Posts: 55
    That article was dated 2007! That Honda diesel project was cancelled months ago! -- GR
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    Yes that story has been around for a while but you havn't been keeping up, anyone interested in TDI's should check Google first and comment second..here's the latest...

    "Honda announced at the Tokyo auto show that there will be a US-spec Accord diesel for 2009. The engine displaces 2.2L, and is expected to produce 150 horsepower and 260 lb-ft of torque. Unique to the Honda diesel is the fact that is will not need a urea injection system like Mercedes, but rather will have a NOx converter that produces its own ammonia through a chemical reaction that reacts with the NOx to produce harmless nitrogen and water. The advantage this has over the Mercedes/VW urea unit is that it will not need to be replenished with AdBlue liquid, which is needed for the urea system to work"... Full story here at Autosavant
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    " It seems the Honda automatic diesel did not pass 50 state emmissions so they pulled the plug. The stick shift did, but they won't bother for such small numbers."-

    And more TDI gossip...

    "they are rebuilding the engine and are still planning on another emmisons test in time for a 2010 introduction"

    Sorry for the assumption that the internet always gets things right the first time.

    In any case, I will wait for a better deal on an 09' Jetta TDI.and not hold my breath on Honda getting it's TDI right this year..

    The 09' Jetta is amazing in all respects.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    http://fitzmall.com/Fitzway/Carfind/resultsa.asp?lstOrd1=EPC

    May be a ways away, but there are ton of new TDI Jettas above, and the prices are good.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    Thanks for the site...we are all a lot better informed now than most of the sales people who cruise the lots with the usuall "looking for something?" opening lines. I think they must put the last guy hired out there in the wind snow and rain, and hope no one askes him any questions.

    You are sure right about Maryland not being close to my car hunting ground, but those Jetta TDI buyers on the East Coast must love this Fitzmall guy! He is brutal about his pricing and I would imagine printing out his listings and keeping them in your back pocket, would give fits to the car crooks who are charging $2000 over MSRP. cold shivers.

    My dream Jetta,TDI
    DSG transmission
    Power sunroof
    Tinted Glass
    Rear lip spoiler
    I-Pod adaptor
    Premim Stereo
    Rubber trunk protector and floor mats....INTERNET PRICED at $22,581
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Have you turned your dream into reality? Or for whatever reasons, is it still in the dream state? :shades:
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    If I lived near the Fitzmall, I would be a happy camper. His Jetta prices are 2 to $3000 below any dealers out West. And he has them on the ground and ready to roll.

    Out here all you get is whining about no stock and uncertain delivery, so there fore you should kiss the dealers **s and pay him whatever he wants if he has one.
    I guess they don't get it, if they started dealing with the public like we wern't all sheep, VW would start sending them more cars to sell.

    The Fitzmall guys throw in the 3 years of sheduled services with a loaner car every time, loads up the vehicles with some decent options, and then knocks off a few thou' to get the $ale done.

    I wish VW would make all their dealers aware that if they want cars to sell, they should get their heads out of their ***s.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    Where is Fitzmall?

    This week I purchased a 2005 VW NB TDI with DSG transmission and 47,000 miles. The wife has taken it from me and tells me how much she loves “her” new car. :confuse:

    I threatened to trade the 2008 Taurus for a 09 Jetta TDI (that are suddenly clogging all the VW dealer lots) and she said “Okay”. Hmmm, not sure I’m ready to all VW, but tempting.

    AND, the really good news, Rick Wagner is stepping down from GM. I hope “Mr. Anti Diesel” drops far from sight.

    Life is good. :shades:
  • inlarryinlarry Member Posts: 13
    Can someone out there give me a definitive answer on the timing belt change for a MY-2005 Jetta TDI? I've heard different times and I don't want to push my luck too far.

    Mine is a model year 2005, mfg in 2004. The manual states (I think) 90,000mi. However, since my car was on the cusp of the engine/body/manual change I want to be sure that is correct for my vehicle (since I've heard VW has been known to include old or new manuals with the wrong model).

    Also, is any service required with the 5-speed?

    Thanks!
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Fitzmall has 4 locations. 2 in Maryland (DC area) and 1 in PA and one in Florida. East coast mostly. You can still use there prices for leverage. When I bought my minivan I took the fitzmall prices to the dealer and asked them to match and they came pretty close (I live in South Dakota). I explained that I had family in the area and I would be going there anyway and would be happy to grab a vehicle while I was there.

    Talk to the internet sales manager at your dealership - they always give you a better deal.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    Here is the link that dudleyr (thanks again) posted to one of my previous comments a page or so back. The dealers that tell you the Jetta is sold out and to 'take a number' are full of it...these guys have 32 TDI's with DSG transmissions all at below MSRP.

    http://fitzmall.com/Fitzway/Carfind/resultsa.asp?lstOrd1=EPC
  • investor27investor27 Member Posts: 59
    The prices for the Jetta TDI DSG are great. But what do they mean by "Price includes Freight" and "Delivered Internet Price"? Does that mean that the internet price listed is the price including shipping to my state if I live outside of MD? Wow!
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    No that means that the shipping cost that all cars have is included. The price is for delivery at the dealer.

    They will ship it to you though for a cost. A friend of mine once ordered a car over the phone from about 300 miles away. They just showed up with a flatbed and dropped the car in his driveway. He signed the papers and they were off. Usually the price difference between areas is not great enough to make this worth while, but we live in a small town with dealers that think they can charge whatever they want. I think the charge is over $1 per mile. They get retired people to drive the flatbeds for not a ton of money as they get a mini vacation out of the deal - expenses hotel etc.
  • Path_TechPath_Tech Member Posts: 4
    LOL! For two months now, my wife has been campaigning for me to buy a Honda Civic for "my car". I finally talked her into the 2009 Jetta TDI (purchased 2 weeks ago). Last week, she got a chance to drive it to work for three days since I carpool and it wasn't my turn to drive. It took a crowbar to pry the keys out of her fingers for this week.

    Word of advice to the male owners of Jetta TDI's..... DON'T HAND YOUR KEYS OVER TO YOUR WIFE! YOU MIGHT NOT EVER SEE THEM AGAIN!
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    DON'T HAND YOUR KEYS OVER TO YOUR WIFE! YOU MIGHT NOT EVER SEE THEM AGAIN!

    Too late :cry:
  • rrollntdirrollntdi Member Posts: 52
    What kind of fuel economy are others getting on their '09 TDIs??

    I bought one in November with the DSG tranny and just had the 10K mile service performed. On my 24 mile commute (averaging about 40 mph) the computer says I average about 41 mpg. When it's warmer, above 50 F, I have averaged above 46 mpg. On a recent trip to Tennessee (at about 68 mph), the best I could get was 42.5 mpg.

    Also I was offered an extended warranty to 110K miles (bumper to bumper, I believe, with a $100 deductible) for $1265. The dealer said he was concerned I wasn't protected from failures of all the electronic components on the new TDIs. What do you think about this?
  • gavolgavol Member Posts: 1
    Hi, I am new to the forum and the Jetta. Just bought a 2009 Jetta TDI (blue graphite, manual, IPOD, mats) for $500 under invoice. This was a March special Dwight Harrison VW in Atlanta was running. No other dealer in Atlanta came close to their deal although one did offer invoice. Ken Bohannon at Dwight Harrison VW hooked me up and was a pleasure to work with. BTW, I LOVE this car!
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