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Comments
Now I would (personally) NOT disagree with you. ....
BUT... the majority DOES disagree with you !! 2% of the passenger vehicle fleet is diesel= 5.108 M. 75% are " light" diesel trucks - 3.831 M = 1.277 M diesel CARS !!
75 mph with bursts to 80-85 mph and over two tank fulls, yielded 59 mpg !!!... Who CARES !!!???
I think you must have the all time mpg/mph best numbers on this forum.
Not to dump sludge on your 03 Jetta Speedster, but consider what Honda's been busy at out on the race track.
"U.K., – Honda’s new Accord 2.2 i-CTDi Sport has this week set no fewer than 19 world speed records and achieved 3.07 litres / 100 km (92 mpg) fuel economy to boot. British racing driver Robin Liddell and freelance journalist Iain Robertson were part of the European record-setting team."
VW has this Diesel Family Sedan market all to themselves (for now) and I think if they start trying to fix what ain't broke, they will lose all they have gained since the mid 2000's with TDI,s...i.e. (rumor alert) requiring the 2010 Jettas to fill up on Urea every 7000 miles ($200)
No worries here ! It has been tdi GURU inspected (during the 100,000 miles TB/WP change interval) !
1. No intake manifold or EGR "sludge," despite using LSD (500 to 140 ppm) most of its mileage at that point (75% of 100,000 miles) . Thanks to the EPA and CA carbs etc. This 03 TDI was designed to run on ULSD (15 ppm to 5 ppm).
2. Clean as a whistle camshaft (original tool markings) and innards with 25,000 miles oil and oil filter changes !! I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy, as I do not do 30,000 mile OCI's.
My take has advocated MORE oems' putting more and varied diesels models on the US market ! I only cycle back to VW, because this is a VW diesel thread.
I actually would like to put the Honda Accord 2.2 i CTDi through its paces. to see so called "real world" mpg.
If that was the case, I wonder just how modified they were by the factory for the Speed Tests, and how much of that 92 mpg number is from the 'Outer Limits'.
In any case it's a shame that some sort of Diesel Conspiracy does seem to exist in the U.S.
Everywhere you look people are knocking them using stale data from the 8o's and just downright stupid remarks.
They are even usuing the oldest BS in the book to try and keep a lid on the subject, implying that diesel cars are somehow, "Un-American" in the 'comments' on published Jetta TDI tests in magazines and internet articles.
Then I have tried Mont Blanc cargo tray/platform and got rid of that one as well (too noisy when driving with open moon roof and too small to load anything on it.
I think I am going to try now Westin aluminum cargo tray - the large size.
If that does not work, I have a trailer hitch now installed and I will try some of the platforms in the rear. It's an on going project now. Haven't found the solution yet.
"Amongst the speed records set, which were all achieved in Production Car Class B (2000 – 2500 cc), were 133.04 mph (1 mile flying start), 84.25 mph (1 mile standing start) and an average speed of 130.38 mph over a 24-hour endurance period. These records were all set at Papenburg high-speed oval test track in north-west Germany on 1 and 2 May, and are all subject to FIA ratification.
Two production cars, randomly selected by FIA officials, were used to undertake the speed records, and apart from the fitting of roll-cages, racing harnesses and radio equipment for track-to-pits communication, no other modifications were made to the cars.
Following the speed record attempts, the same two cars were then driven 419 miles from Papenburg test track to Wiesbaden, near Frankfurt in order to complete the fuel economy run. The route comprised of a mixture of motorway and non-motorway driving, during which one of the Accords achieved a staggering 92 imperial mpg (US mpg=~76.6) average.
The project, whose aim was to demonstrate the performance and economy of the Accord i-CTDi, was a joint production between Honda, the FIA and Italian-based JAS Motorsport, who managed fuelling and pit-stops.
Honda UK’s driver in the speed record attempt, Robin Liddell, who has previously raced at Le Mans 24-hours, as well as the American Le Mans Series and the BRDC British GT championship, commented: "The car’s performance is very impressive, demonstrated by the records we’ve achieved. Honda has made real steps forward in styling, ergonomics and interior design with the new Accord Diesel and now has a package that can take on the best cars in its class."
Too bad we won't get a chance to drive one.
In many EU countries some people now mix diesel with cooking oil half and half to save money. EU is considering clamping down on this "tax evasion" - they may tax McDonalds and other fast foods that sell used oil through back doors and people are mixing it with diesel (my friend from UK that works for Aston Martin and drives a Subaru Forester diesel there is telling me....).
Problem with hybrids is that technology is now already old and aging. There hasn't been any new technology introduced in the past 10 years, since hybrids were introduced. Another argument is that most cells (if not all) come from China - so instead of being dependent on Middle East oil we will be dependent on Red Chinese... seems like an average American would rather be dependent on China than Middle East, right?
If you use the EPA average mpg for the 09 Jetta gasser, why not use the same criteria when comparing to the 09 Jetta TDI? The EPA avg mpg for the TDI is 33mpg, not 38mpg. Where does the 38mpg come from. Is it some kind of official statistic or is it the result of several TDI affectionados. Some TDI owners get substantially better than the EPA avg and I believe there are probably some gasser Jetta owners that get better than the EPA avg as well. I'm not bashing TDIs by any means but I just like to see statements that appear as fact not be backed by a few people that either are hypermilers or close to it. I see one guy on the Camry forum that is consistenty getting 40mpg out of a reg gasser I4 Camry. That is not the norm by any means and is questionable in my opinion.
The EPA website has the Jetta gasser getting a little better than the stated avg with 2 drivers reporting. The Jetta TDI has an average of 40mpg with 21 drivers reporting. While that sounds great and I have no reason to doubt them, it is still just 21 drivers out of thousands which may be as small a sample as 1% or less.
I get an average of 42/43 (79%) and I am NO hyper miler. Indeed the thing will not be broken in for @ least another 3,000 miles, with 10,000 to 60,000 miles "full" break in. So there is an expectation the mpg will go up from there.
Break-In Period
I do use it primarily for:
1. H20 emulsification
2. fuel pump lubricity
These are all chemical reasons I can NOT see.
3. It does boost the cetane,
4. boosts power
5. offers high detergency
6. better mpg
7. cleans injectors and combustion system
but I really have to take their word for it.
VW's official recommendation: no additves are necessary or required.
I was on the verge (or so I thought) of buying a 2009 TDI, but don't want to be orphaned with a long-term maintenance problem. Maybe it is all a bad dream and doesn't really amount to anything.
Personally, aside from the gear heads and aficionados, I don't think more than 10% of Americans would buy a diesel even if they guaranteed you 50 mpg @ $5 a gallon. Why? Because as fuel costs go up, gas engine efficiency, aerodynamic design and weight-saving technology goes up---historically this has always been true at least.
so I guess I'm saying that diesel tech is not a solution, but rather an alternative out of many alternatives.
for some however, the perfect solution --people like me, who need some cargo capacity, like in a sportwagon, and who drive 20000 miles a year.
so I guess I'm saying that diesel tech is not a solution, but rather an alternative out of many alternatives.
for some however, the perfect solution --people like me, who need some cargo capacity, like in a sportwagon, and who drive 20000 miles a year. "...
Then I would think we are saying the same things, to you agree with my past posts or recent past posts.
also maybe you are more lenient toward VWs reputation than most people, who I think are rather wary of the company's past record in certain areas---specifically, electronic glitches and dealer service.
It might be IF,... say the head bureaucrat/legislator, President Obama did a President Kennedy equivalent (to the moon by June). By saying we need 25% diesel passenger vehicle fleet (63.85 M) by a date certain. My swag of the chances of this? Christ's Second Coming will be sooner. Not to reference a long closed SUV thread, but it took SUV's INXS of 30 years to go from 1/2% of the passenger vehicle fleet to 12% of the passenger vehicle fleet !!!! ??? Even at that SNAILS pace MY growth rate of .00333% per year, some folks saw that as the attack of the Hordes and the end of western civilization as we know it.
These folks can't even pass a constitutionally mandated on time budget, but the CA legislature ran into that (on a minor level) when the overwhelming democratic legislature passed a "MANDATORY 3% of CA MY new car sales" to be plug in electric, (some years back) I have read in passing CA has 24 M registered vehicles so an obvious figure would be eventually 720,000 vehicles.
This ill conceived effort literally died overnight.
I actually bought VW's in SPITE of their reputations. I think it is even apparent to them, they need to work to reverse the negative reputation they have worked so hard in polishing !!??
I think the biggest problem is unseen. It is the pursuit of the (next) the "MAGIC BULLET" assumption. Logic would dictate pursuing that led us into this intellectual problem in the first place.
Goggle it and see what you think.
85 Plus (RedLine)
Designed for use in all diesel engines. Contains extremely powerful lubricants, detergents, seal conditioners, fuel stabilizers and rust preventatives, but without smoke suppressant
Red Line 85 Plus contains additional cetane improvers which boost the fuel 5-9 cetane numbers and additional lubricants which reduce wear in low sulfur fuel by 75%.
This improvement in lubricity and cetane will reduce detonation, assist starting, help reduce smoking, help prevent fuel system wear and leakage and can provide 5% additional power and efficiency.
This diesel fuel additive complies with the federal low sulfur content requirements for use in diesel motor vehicles and nonroad engines.
I just purchased a 2009 Jetta TDI DSG and did opt for the dealer offered 84 mo / 75k mi warranty for about $1250 with $0/$100 deductible. I checked online prior to making this deal and could not beat it online... I know that you can get 84 mo / 100k mi as well for very little more... Good luck and post your deal when you buy!
Brad
Let us know what you think of Diesel Power Service. Is it worth the price / trouble?
More at this link:
http://www.consumerautomotiveresearch.com/index.htm
Gary
EPA 29/40 mpg.
The 09 Jetta TDI, DSG has 7.5k miles and in the spirit of the break in mode, I did a run this morning to the University of California @ Davis (and pm return) 200 miles R/T . On the way up, I ran into commute stop and go situations ( various area's familar to highway 680/80 corridor commuters, bumper to bumper 20 min delay). Even did my OCD exercise and used the sequential shifting pattern for some pretty zippy acceleration and deceleration (to vary the revs, loading and put the turbo on boost) . Got some cheap diesel (around here anyway @ 2.73) on the return trip and the thing posted app 42 mpg (42.2) . Also had the A/C on with fan set at #1 and or #2 (it was a cool 94 degrees)
Cars in Southern California come with dark glass windows from the dealer and from the manufacturer (as long as cars are equipped with A/C ). Those, that do not have A/C come with clear untinted glass.
Not correct. All VW Jetta sold in U.S. have tinted glass, and all have the save degree of tint. No difference in the glass of Jetta's sold in Iowa or San Diego.
AC or no AC, the glass is tinted.
Southern CA cars do not automatically come with darker tinted windows from the manufacturer. It is not even an option to obtain different tinted glass from the manufacturer.
If the tint is darker, it is AFTERMARKET.
Gary
Configuration
inline four cylinder 1,968 cubic centimetres (120.1 cu in) Turbocharged Direct Injection (TDI), Bore x Stroke (mm): 81 x 92.5
Head
four valves per cylinder, DOHC, compression ratio: 18:1 (103kW), 16.5:1 (125kW)
Fuel system
Common Rail (CR) multi-point direct injection (DI) with 8 nozzle output, piezo elements, pressure up to 1850 bar
Aspiration
turbocharger, intercooler, water cooled exhaust gas recirculation (EGR)
Aspiration (200hp)
twin registered turbochargers with different diameters
Engine management
Bosch EDC 17
Exhaust
diesel particulate filter (DPF)
Output
103 kilowatts (140 PS; 138 bhp) @ 3,750-4,150 rpm, 320 newton metres (236 ft·lbf) @ 1,750-2,800rpm
105 kilowatts (143 PS; 141 bhp) @ 4,200 rpm, 320 newton metres (236 ft·lbf) @ 1,750-2,500rpm
125 kilowatts (170 PS; 168 bhp) @ 4,200 rpm, 350 newton metres (258 ft·lbf) @ 1,750-2,500rpm
147 kilowatts (200 PS; 197 bhp) @ 4,400 rpm, 400 newton metres (295 ft·lbf) @ 2,500-3,000rpm
Applications
VW Tiguan, Audi A4 B8, SEAT Exeo, Skoda Superb Mk2 (125 kW), VW Jetta TDI Clean Diesel (140 hp), SEAT Leon Mk2, SEAT Altea, SEAT Toledo Mk3, Škoda Octavia 1Z (125 kW), VW Passat CC
Interesting line up of VW diesel engines link title
Believe it or not, here in lies the secret ..."@ 1,750-2,500rpm "...
Max torque comes on at 1,750 and maxs out @ 2,500 rpms. Sure you can rev it out to redline @ 5,100 rpms. Much over 3,500 rpms and you really are just in the italian tune mode (no real effect) Keep it closer to, or slightly above 2,500 and the turbo is on boost. This thing in the correct gear will run all day/night @ xxx digit speeds and be happy as a clam. 09 oil consumption is still unknown (for me). The 03 TDI however consumes .25 to .5 qt in app 20,000 to 25,000 miles.
Predictably they are usually dissapointed. :confuse:
Again off topic but the real secret to best mpg in the Civic is again to drive the torque. (aka with the 4500/6100 rpms ratio or @ 75% in mind.
Also I think it's kind of risky to rev a little diesel right up to redline all the time. We are talking about very high compression engines, here, and I do worry about the ability of the cylinder head itself and the head bolts and gasket to take all that day after day (comment is not specific to VW).
In addition, there are almost no comparisons @ any altitude (practically 2,000 to 8,000 ft).
I guess one day I need to go back up to Pikes Peak (14,100 ft)
2nd place: Volkswagen TDI
Only two vehicles are listed here because they were the only ones to score above average in this category."...
link title
Manufacturer Rank
Compact Cars Ranking
As for bringing up the rear as VW does, it is a PROFITABLE company !!?? It is also poised to be a dominate force in the diesel market. It is truly the only one that have able to put a large minority (30% of Jetta models) of its model production in diesels. To do this in the worst model year sales in many years is also a feat. They are shooting for 40% of their US production as diesels !!!
Does a companies current profits necessarily equate to quality??? That must mean when the Detroit Three were making tons of money they must have been generating very good vehicles indeed. I like to turn negatives into positives but this one doesn't fly!!!
Well I think by the examples, a lot of things do not necessarily correlate or correlate inversely, or with no real trend.
Another off topic example, I read in the local rag that the fate of the NUMMI, Fremont, CA plant (among other things, makes one of the best economy cars Toyota Corolla and light trucks Toyota Tacoma), looms in the "uncertain" column.
RE: Break-In period -- I think modern cars are already broken in when you get them, pretty much. I never fuss over that, other than avoiding doing something really stupid with a car with 10 miles on it. But I think at 3,000 miles, you are more than done, and the car is fully broken in.