VW Jetta TDI

dwpc · June 2010

Your brake life is a function of how heavily they're used, not just mileage. Heavy city driving can eat brake pads in 20K miles or less. 52K is really a lot of miles for brakes, so even if you do mostly highway driving, you should probably get them checked pronto. You should get a "BRAKE" warning in the instruments (not the symbol light) before the pads are completely gone but its best to check them physically regularly.

jawf3 · July 2010

Hi,

I'm considering purchasing a Jetta TDI. I take good care of my cars, drive conservatively, and drive them until they are no longer driveable. My last car had almost 300,000 miles on the odometer and parts were failing.

The key feature that's drawing me to the TDI is the mileage. I also like the car in general, although I have yet to test drive one. Test Drives I've read rate the TDI as positive and say the TDI is a fun car to drive. I'm not interested in a Prius to achieve high mpg.

I've been researching the TDI and diesels in general, and I'm seeing sites that lead me to think the TDI may require a lot of TLC. I'm not clear if these folks are just the diehards who devote a great deal of time to their TDI's (no offense intended, I just don't want to do that), or if I should expect to spend a lot of time and money keeping a TDI running.

One other thing, I owned a couple of VWs in the early 70s and did not have good experiences with either my local dealer or with VW of America.

Given that background, I'd appreciate any input you can provide on your satisfaction with the TDI, your experiences with the maintenance and upkeep, and your impressions of VW dealers in general as well as the company.

Thanks in advance.

barryob5 · July 2010

jawf3....I have an '09 Jetta TDI Wagon. About 15,000 miles. About a month ago, I bought a brand new Mercedes E350. A wonderful car, but there are many times when the Jetta is the preferred vehicle. I've owned 3 Mercedes diesels over the years, but that was a long time ago. They required 3,000 mile oil changes, with no exceptions. Our Jetta has had no problems so far, but I'm in the middle of the first 10,000 mile oil change interval. I changed it a 5,000 and 10,000, as prescribed by VW.

I have had no horror stories with VW dealerships, but then again, I have really had no issues. I have the big sunroom and NAV, and love them both. The NAV is more accurate than the Mercedes NAV, in my opinion.

We have not been driving much lately...mostly short, in town trips, so the MPG is only averaging about 28, according to the computer. It was closer to 40 when we were driving a lot. I think the higher figure is more accurate.

I would not hesistate to buy another Jetta TDI. It seems to be well made, and we enjoy driving it a lot.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2010

Sounds like you are asking two questions here---one about how good the car is, and the other about the VW dealership network. I think you'd find a predominantly positive view of the TDI and a predominantly negative one for the VW dealer network.

Diesel car maintenance isn't "more" or "less"---it's just different, and that sometimes trips people up, because they don't study their owner's manual.

longo2 · July 2010

IMHO the Jetta is just too small for the money.

The back seat is cramped by the huge trunk extending so far into the cabin. The 2011 Jetta has been stretched 3 inches so that has to be a good thing, but it's still a small car overall.

I would wait until the new Mid Size VW shows up this fall and take one for a spin. By then the HPFP issues might have been resolved and that new TDI engine that was rushed into production has to be improved a little now that VW has had some owners R&D to study.

As for your "how much work is a diesel" question, the VW TDI's especially with the DSG transmission have some VERY expensive maintenace shedules that REALLY do need to be done on time.

Depending on where you live, the DSG fluid change can cost from $300.00 to $595.00 every 40,000 miles. Engine Oil, coolant and fuel filter changes are VW propriatary services, and cost at least double what a gas engine would be. Even If you are a DIY'er, VW services can be daunting.
If you live in an area where there are a few VW dealerships you can at least shop around for these services, and you might get lucky find a good Indy' shop that will do the work.
This forum has some "Trusted Mechanics" you can search for in your area.
If you can't find one, keep on shopping for your new vehicle.

There are great looking new 2011 regular gas powered, mid sized cars out there now with better warranties getting nearly as good MPG's as the TDI's without all the drama. :shades:

shrifty · July 2010

Hi jawf3, I have an 09 Sedan TDI with over 53K now, and so far its been doing alright for me so far. I did have to replace an exhaust flap which went bad a few months ago around 45K. As for the maintenance/upkeep I've only taken it in for the 10K services otherwise. Mileage has been anywhere from a low of 40 to a high of 53, obviously depending on how hard/easy you drive it.

As previously mentioned, the DSG fluid change is quite expensive, mine was around $300. I live in Western PA and had no issues starting in the winter with temps as low as -10 F on some mornings, and I have not used any additives of any kind. The dealership experience for me has been fairly good, no complaints here.

One thing I noticed is that you didn't specify if you are looking for a sedan or sportwagen version of the TDI, or if you are looking for a manual or automatic. This info would also help us help you figure out if the TDI is a good choice for you. As for me, I am not a big fan of driving in stop/go traffic with the DSG (a bit too jerky for me), but I don't really spend much time in city traffic so I don't mind too much.

m6user · July 2010

Hey Shrifty,
Looking for a down to earth answer on the heating issue. Just about every gas car(which is all of them) I've had has only taken about 1 to 2 miles to start blowing out hot air. 1 mile when it's 20-35 degrees out and 1.5 to 2 when it's like -10 to 20 degrees. I mean good hot air in well less than 5 minutes. Does the TDI take substantial more? Like 5 miles or 10-15 minutes?

I'm not a wuss and I know heated seats help but in Chicago area even heated seats don't warm you up that quickly as I have them now. I also am concerned about the defroster powers when it's that cold. How well do they work?

littlerhody · July 2010

I have a 2009 Jetta TDI with just shy of 50K miles. To date the car has been flawless. The only service required has been oil changes every 10K miles as prescribed.
I have the 6 speed standard tranny and the car is fun to drive. Mileage is approx 39 or 40 mpg and I dont baby the car to get that. On long trips it can jump up to 47 mpg or more.
The fit and trim are good however I think VW could have spent a couple of more bucks on the finish items. The buttons and switches are a little on the flimsy side in my opinion, then again the car is in the sub 25K catagory and I guess that is what you can expect.
Good luck on your choice. I would recommend this car.

vinchenz61 · July 2010

I have my TDI for about 1 year and just turn 20K. IT is a fanstastic ride and the fuel pefromance is better than the sticker. I am getting 30 city and mid 40s highway. I got 48 the other day coming Vermnont to NJ. I had a couple of electrical kinks in early days but was able to get that cleared up and no trouble since.

The dealer I bought the car from had some issues but that was under that cash for Clucker program which was poorly administered by the gov, so I dont hold VW accountable on that. At a different dealer for service I had to return to dealer 2 sometimes 3 times to get it fixed properly.

All in all, I love the car. Everyone that i talk to on the road that has them love them as well.

shrifty · July 2010

For me, I've noticed that it does take longer for the TDI to warm up than my previous gas vehicles (Intrepid and Grand Prix), up to about 50% longer time wise. The defroster has been very quick to clear the windows, and the heated mirrors are fairly quick as well. I'm not a fan of where the control is located, you have to turn the mirror adjustment knob around to activate the heated mirrors, and it is very easy to accidentally move the mirrors out of alignment.

One time when the temp was around 0 and I stopped at a traffic light, the engine temp dropped about 40-50 degrees, and I started to lose heat inside the car

As long as you are moving at a decent speed at low temps it will stay warm enough. I don't drive much in stop and go traffic which Chicago can have quite a lot of, so I can imagine that it may take some effort to keep it warm.

ndmike88 · July 2010

I have never lost heat in my TDI while idling. Once the temp guage starts to move, it keeps moving till it hits 190.

vinchenz61 · July 2010

I have noticed it takes a longer time for the cabin to heat up as well although I never saw a drop of of engine temp. In stop and go traffic I have felt uncomfortable fluxuations in cabin temp.

m6user · July 2010

How much zero degree weather do you get in TN?

m6user · July 2010

Thanks for the info. My wife is very sensitive to the cold and that kind of information is very useful when considering a car purchase. You're right, we can get a lot of stop and go especially in winter storms where the temps can drop to minus -10 to -20 degrees F and that's not wind chill. :sick:

dwpc · July 2010

No extra work at all, except maybe looking a little harder for station with a diesel pump. We've had VWs for 23 years and have had exceptional dependability plus the fun of driving that German cars offer. We bought a JSW TDI in April and have had no issues, plus it's a ball to drive. We had a '99 Jetta and liked it very much, but the new one is much more car. The JSW replaced an Audi A6 biturbo, and we don't feel at all deprived. We average 33-35 MPG in town and near 40 highway at 75-80 MPH with AC on. Having put several hundred thousand miles on MB diesels, I think the TDI performance is spectacular. The engine pulls like a small V8, and the DSG trans is superb.

I believe that the web car forums have to taken with a grain of salt because they act as concentrators for negative comments, and are often heavy with condescending comments from hyper-whiney anal types who check their tire pressure every day and expect their VW to be a BMW. I don't think you can generalize on dealers; some econo car dealers are fantastic, some lux car dealers are lousy.

My sole complaint is that the std radio FM has terrible audio quality, but is pretty good on all other functions. The ability to play from a 16G SD card makes the CD player and iPod connector essentially redundant AFAIC.

colin_l · July 2010

Good point; I'd wager zero is probably near the record low, and I doubt they get a whole lot below freezing (32F) on average.

That said... I haven't heard of anyone else mentioning a loss of heat even if they do live in a very cold climate?

vinchenz61 · July 2010

I have felt it. Takes longer to warm up. I have had it up in Vermont sub zero..it warms up but it takes some time

ndmike88 · July 2010

Zero degree weather in Tennessee......not too often. Below 32 and sometimes in the teens......more than you think.

kyfdx · July 2010

If your wife is like my wife.... just imagine having to "explain" anything about how the heat is somehow "different" in her new diesel... Not more or less, or better or worse... just "different"..

For me... no problem... for my wife? No chance..

With all due respect to the diesel owners on this forum, every single TDI owner that I've spoken to in my neck of the woods, says it takes longer to get heat compared to a gas car.. and, in extreme cold, exponentially so...

My wife would kill me.... lol

m6user · July 2010

Yeah, the only saving grace would be to tell her, "Just think how far you can drive in the winter without having to get out and refuel!". I don't think that would placate her though.

shrifty · July 2010

I've only had the temp drop a few times, all due to extreme cold and sitting still for a period of time. Not bad otherwise.

I've spent a fair amount of time in Chicago, actually my favorite city. Just not a fan of 90/94 traffic in rush hour....

shrifty · July 2010

I've got a friend that is about the same as your wife, I just crank up the heated seat to 5, and go as quick as I can hoping to get the heat to generate faster while explaining how it takes longer to heat up. At least she dresses appropriately for the winter....

shrifty · July 2010

Hi jogo, I just joined the door lock module club the other day, it seems to be an issue with my rear doors. When I used the fob to lock, the horn didn't sound, and the light on the driver's side door flashed a bit differently and stayed lit. The left rear door didn't lock, and I was able to open it and the alarm went off.

I can get the car to successfully lock if I open and then close the rear door, then press the lock button on the driver's side door, close the door, and then insert the key into the door and turn it to the right to lock. I know its a pain, but not sure how much it would be to replace the module. Would it be worth replacing, or just keep it as is? I'm guessing the warranty is out for this at 36K. Also, would anyone know how difficult it would be to replace by yourself or with a semi-competent friend? We're not exactly automotive gurus, but we can manage our way around.

Some times I can get it to work with the remote, but I think I can do this only if I don't open the rear doors. I guess if it gets to the point where I can't lock them anymore, then I guess I'll have no choice.

shrifty · July 2010

It appears to be just an issue with the left rear door. When unlocking the doors, it is the only one that remains locked. As long as I leave it alone, the car will now lock normally. Kind of annoying, but I don't use it very often....

mamx4 · July 2010

I have a 2006 Jetta TDI. Bought it new. Always did all maintenance. 102000 miles. About 3 months ago, my MPG fell from consistent 42 MPG down to 32.9 MPG today. No loss of power over last three months, no erratic starts, runs and idles smooth as any diesel can. I can't figure out if it is something I have done or something needs to be fixed, but this car doesn't do 32-34 MPG, ever, until 3 months ago. Yes, I keep the tires up. Yes, I change the air filter frequently because I live in the country on dirt roads. No, I don't use K & N, so I haven't coated the oxygen sensor. I have run some injector cleaner through a couple of tankfuls to no effect. I run diesel pickups and tractors, but this is my first car with a diesel and this is driving me crazy. Any and all suggestions appreciated!

Doc Mitchell

bpeebles · July 2010

Not sure if your 2006 has same adustment/setting but my 2003 has an "IQ" setting (Injection Quality) which, should be checked/adjusted occasionally. My VagCom has a special mode where it will draw a graph on the screen showing my IQ.

My understanding of IQ is the baseline in the compression-cycle where the "start of injection" begins. (The foundation where ALL the fuel-injection pulses originate)

BTW: Using a K&N (oiled cotton) airfilter will NOT coat the O2 sensor... instead, it coats the MAF sensor. (Mass AirFlow). An O2 sensor is in the EXHAUST system... not the intake system.

ops2 · July 2010

Does it take longer? Sure. A lot longer? Not really. We're talking 2-3 miles before you get warm air vs 1-2, and the heated seat gets warm well before my old Saturn's heater was blowing even lukewarm.

bpeebles · July 2010

I dont know where you live... but here in Vermont... I can have the block-heater plugged in for 2 hours before starting the engine... and not get much heat out the the vents for my entire 10-mile drive to work.

Granted, the outside temp. would be -15F and my drive is a lonely country road at 5:30AM.

HOWEVER, the seat-heater warms my backside quite nicely. (Dont even EXPECT any heat from the vents!) For cold-weather driving, seat-heaters is the #1 best optoin to get.

Lets not forget that the trade-off for exceptional econemy (MPG) is that the engine does not produce much 'waste' heat. The heat from the vents in the cabin are SOLELY due to an inefficent engine heating the antifreeze with wasted fuel.

A 100% efficent engine would produce NO HEAT whatsoever. (All the energy in the fuel would be used to move the vehicle forward.... not produce wasted heat.)

colin_l · July 2010

That doesn't sound too good.. what if it were snowing or sleeting? I do want some heat, of course, but I think you really need it to keep the windshield defrosted.

Of course, it is rarely colder than 15 here in Kansas.

m6user · July 2010

A 100% efficent engine would produce NO HEAT whatsoever. (All the energy in the fuel would be used to move the vehicle forward.... not produce wasted heat.)

Believe me, the heat is not wasted when it is -15 out.

I have leather heated seats in my vehicle but I can tell you that I have heat blowing out of my vents(gas engine) before I can feel the warmth from the seats to any degree. They both kind of warm up at the same time it seems.

vinchenz61 · July 2010

Im sure this is not your issue but thought it would be worth mentioning. I have a new 2009 TDI. I have a mix of highway/city driving but consistently getting up in the 40's. i noticed a drop of in the last couple weeks. it was the AC. Even on highway dropped off about 6-8 mpg.

mamx4 · July 2010

Hey, thanks for the reply. My Jetta, until the last 3 months, ran consistently at 45MPG during the winter with no AC. The AC has always cut it down to 41-42, but never down in the lower 30s.

elias · July 2010

after a highway drive, brush a finger against center/hub of each wheel.
you may find one much hotter than the others due to wheelbearing or dragging-brake-caliper - it could be so hot it will seriously burn your finger if you do more than a tap to feel the temp. if indeed one wheel/hub is much hotter like that, then you've found the mpg culprit.

hlcastelo · July 2010

I have owned by 2009 TDI for 20 mos. I'm in South Florida where AC is required most of the year. In Highway driving with AC on I consistently get over 40 mpg. I have noticed that the mpg will be highest as long as you don't drive over 60 mph for extended period of time.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2010

Edmunds has done two long term tests of 2009 and 2010 VW TDIs, and the average fuel economy was right in the same 31--34 mpg as reported here by some people. I'd have to say that for "normal" city/hwy combo, in the real world, winter/summer avg, all locations, etc. driven 24/7/365--that's about what it should be for most of us most of the time.

bpeebles · July 2010

In my 30+ years in Vermont, I can tell you that SLEET cannot physically happen at -15F.

Anyone who lives in Vermont knows it RARELY (if ever) parcipatates when the ambient temp is below 0F. The air is soooooo dry that there is no moisture available to fall from the sky. The coldest nights happen when there are no clouds. The earths heat radiates into space. (Radiational cooling) No clouds= no parcipatation

In fact, one can watch the small amount of ice-crystals which are on the windshiled sublimanate in front of their eyes.

You have not really experienced cold weather until you see sublimination happen right in front of your eyes!

conjett · July 2010

once I get on the open road, I can get over 40 mpg (up to about 45 or so) in my 2010 JSW TDI that I've had for a month with the AC on. On the one day here in the Midatlantic in the last month when I didn't need to run the A/C, I got up to 49 mpg for some short stretches.

elias · July 2010

sublimation is an awesome thing to see.
One NH morning my backyard was colder than the Martian surface.

The time when defrost/low-heat is a problem in TDIs is during an ice storm or snowstorm where the temperatures are in mid-20s. ice/snow can accrue by freezing on the windshield in stop^go/slow&go traffic because the engine is not making enough heat.

With 10 TDI winters in new england , this has happened approximately twice,
a partial workaround is to turn on every accessory & heating-elements (windshield, back window, mirrows) to make the engine work harder.

tld · July 2010

Car and Driver magazine commented on the no heat issue too. They said the Canadian models come with an electric heater that blows heat when the engine is to cold to do it. Do we know if this option is available in the states?

Mr_Shiftright · July 2010

Perhaps you drive more conservatively or even smartly than Edmunds staff. But most of the magazines I consult that do longterm testing don't pst 40+ mpg except under one-time exceptional conditions, such as long flat stretches in overdrive with cruise control on. I'd guess that how you drive makes quite a difference---for instance, diesel engines don't need to be revved up as high as gas engines, and doing so just wastes fuel.

My MINI varies between 26 and 34--that's quite a spread. It depends on how I drive it.

gagrice · July 2010

My 05 Passat TDI would get 40 MPG out on the highway at 70 MPH. In town mixed it was more like 28 MPG. A radical change could mean something else. I would check bearings and brake pads first as suggested.

bpeebles · July 2010

Most vehicles which are "tested" by jurnalists are not "broken in" properly. Additionally, A TDI engine may take up to 20,000 miles to reach maximum MPG. (as measured by taking compression readings and observing at what milage the PSI reaches maximum.)

Instead, a vehicle whcih jurnalists test are often driven hard and end up reflecting poor examples of real-world MPG numbers. Poorly broken-in engine gets poor MPG for life.

I know my TDI torque-peak is at 1800 RPM and hence gets the best MPG at that point. If I am patent enough to drive 55 MPH, I can acheive nearly 60 MPG. However, my lifetime MPG average (over 100,000 miles) is 50 MPG.

HOWEVER: The real measurement is COST PER MILE. This number can be used to compare to ANY vehicle running on ANY fuel. My TDI (over 100,000 miles) comes out to $0.05/mile. I dare say this is better than any other vehiclce sold in North America.

bpeebles · July 2010

Yes, all TDIs sold in Norh America contain electric heating-elements which help to speed the warmup of the antifreeze. This extra load on the engine also tends to make the engine warm up faster too.

You can think of this as purposfully consuming more fuel just to speed warmup of the engine.

Anyone who really REALLY wants to have heat can install a webasto heater. This consumes diesel from your fueltank to keep the engine toasty-warm.

elias · July 2010

My 06 jetta TDI has the electric-air-heater. It's useful for getting defrosting working faster on the windshield - it is not capable of heating the cabin.
I think the recent/09/010 TDIs have the electric-air-heater too.

as far as MPG goes, my Jetta TDIs have never provided less than 40 mpg, over about 300k miles! OK, one exception: a ~100 mph tank out west - mpg did drop below 40 for that one!

Mr_Shiftright · July 2010

Oddly enough, though, I have never seen a long-term test done by credible media that ever approached a 40 MPG long-time average. I mean by long-term maybe 30K++ miles, so breaking in is not a factor anymore.

I suspect that what we are seeing is anecdotal vs. recorded data. I'm sure i could get 40+ mpg but I'm not sure why auto magazines can't seem to. If you see any longterm test that nails 40+ mpg, let us know. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough.

You know, multiple drivers, short trips---that can hurt mileage.

rrollntdi · July 2010

I have a '09 Jetta TDI Sedan w/ DSG w/ 36K miles. I notice it takes about twice as long for the car to heat up in the Winter compared to the gas vehicles I've had ( except for my '03 VUE which never really got warm). The heated seats warm up in 3 or 4 minutes, which helps because the engine takes about another 6. I've not had any problems with windows fogging up in rain or snow storms, any more than any other car I've owned/leased. The vent control in the center vent helps divert the air to the windshield, so it might actually be a little better, when I remember to redirect it.

Went on a trip from Detroit to Knoxville for Memorial Day weekend. The car was loaded with luggage and 2 adults. Ran the A/C the entire 530 miles each way at about 68 mph and averaged about 45.5 mpg including being stuck in Cincinnati traffic on the way down and in Lexington on the way back, for an hour each way. My daily commute of 22 miles (18 miles on 8 Mile Rd, a 4 lane divided highway with 4 or 5 stops each way and about 4 miles on M10, an expressway) averaging about 38 mph, I get about 48 mpg without the A/C on. With the A/C, it's closer to 42 mpg. Cooler temps make a difference too.

bpeebles · July 2010

(Mr Shiftright) There are 1000s of "long term" tests that get well over 40 MPG. Almost every owner of a TDI who has measured the MPG can attest to it. These folks are careful to break-in their engine and concensly drive with efficenfy in mind. (After all, that is why they drive a TDI in the 1st place!)

The problem is that you are looking for jurnalists to do this. You are looking in the wrong place. Again... most TDIs driven by jurnalist are NOT initially broken-in properly AND are driven by lead-footed folks who are looking for accelleration.

A poorly broken-in engine will FOREVER be a poorly broken-in engine. Nothing short of pulling the pistons and re-honing the cylinders can correct a poorly broken-in engine. (Then, of-course, followed by a careful break-in procedure)

Try to realize that driving a TDI like a Porsche every day and then complaining it "only" gets 40 MPG is the real testamant to the efficency of these vehicles.

I submit to you MY long-term test of my 2003 TDI. I have recorded EVERY drop of fuel ever pumped into the tank into an extensive spreadsheet. (over 100,000 miles)
Overall average MPG = 50.0
Overall cost-per-mile = $0.05

gagrice · July 2010

Speaking of long term VW TDI experience, where is Ruking? Since he got that new Jetta TDI he is missing in action. Just cannot stop driving it is so much fun, is my guess. He kept good records of his fuel used and got consistent high mileage even driving fast.

colin_l · July 2010

I've got an app for my android phone that tracks mileage, price, etc and it takes me about 10 seconds extra per fill-up. 30 seconds on a bad day.

but... I don't have a TDI yet, I'm just shopping.

* FYI my cobb stage 2 Evo gets 22 mpg overall, 26 highway @ 75mph.

gagrice · July 2010

That sounds great. I have a check register in each glove box with a pen. I input to Excel when I get home. That would save one step. Those are cool phones. I am just too cheap to get a full blown cell plan.

VW Jetta TDI

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