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Legacy GT Limited vs. Acura TSX and TL

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  • nmdrivernmdriver Member Posts: 23
    Subaru rattles?
    We have a 2005 Legacy GT Ltd (manual) and a 2005 Outback XT Ltd (auto). 10,000 miles on one, 14,000 on the other. We live up a moderately rough dirt road. No rattles on either car, and I am very sensitive. I HATE rattles. Our oldest daughter, who lives in DC has a 2005 GT manual with 14,000 miles on it. It pounds over terrible roads and up and down some dirt farm roads every day. Never had a rattle.
    I did think I had a rattle in the Outback when the car was new. Turned out to be something my wife had left in the passenger door side pocket. And, I once heard a rattle from the passenger side B pillar in the GT. When I investigated I found that the buckle on the passenger side seat belt was turned funny and was striking the B pillar. I straightened it out and the sound never returned.
    Summary: three cars, 38,000 miles, zero problems.
    We much prefer the manuals. Subaru transmissions smooth out as the car breaks in. The combination of an easy transmission and clutch and lots of low-end pull makes these cars a pleasure to drive in traffic as well as on a back road. The manual cars feel MUCH quicker and responsive. They also get considerably better gas mileage. Daughter gets 25mpg in a reverse commute from DC into the Md countryside and 28 mpg on speed-constrained east coast interstates. I get 26 mpg at 85mph in the West, 22 around LA when I take the car there, and 20.5 in strictly stop & go driving in Santa Fe. The automatic Outback gets 22mpg at 85, 20 around LA and 18 in Santa Fe.
    I had driven exclusively BMW's and Audi's since 1967. The Legacy GT is the best car I have ever owned. I recently test drove a 2006 BMW 330i Sport back-to-back with the GT. The BMW has a creamy smooth engine and transmission, excellent handling on smooth roads, and is incredibly quiet. The Subaru feels a lot faster in normal driving, is easier to drive in traffic, is more comfortable, and just flat kills the BMW on New Mexico back roads even in dry weather: much more compliant suspension over less-than-smooth roads, power, and AWD unflappability. And, the GT laughs at rain, ice and snow. As an all-purpose, all-road, all-weather car, the GT wins. (It also cost $13,000 less than the BMW.)
    The worst thing about Subarus: the Potenza tires. I arranged with a local tire store to swap these out when I took delivery of the cars. The GT got Blizzaks on the OEM wheels plus 225 summer performance tires on light weight rims from the Tire Rack. The Outback got Turanza LS-V's, which are perfect for its less sporting, more "lux" demeanor.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We like to call them "Blotenzas". ;)

    -juice
  • thepdmmthepdmm Member Posts: 82
    Rattles drive me nuts too! nice to hear thier are other people like me, my dealership (although I am not saying they haven't tried to fix my tsx rattles) they have been very quick to give me the "this is not a perfect machine" speech which I understand, to some degree.. BUT a brand new car (especially an Acura) shouldn't not be made to rattle by another car driving by that is just my opinion though!:)

    nice to hear that NOBODY is complaining about rattles in Legacy's.. I have heard a few complaints about "clutch stink" haven't had that in test driving.. I did however kind of rode the clutch a bit and I did get some smell but it went a way quick so I think that the clutch stink is a combo between new drivers and/or all wheel drive stick.?

    thanks for the long explanation.. my wife and I are seriously considering getting a 06 Legacy from the TSX we have now.. but I am taking my time as to not get another car that drives me nuts!
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Has your Acura dealer seen these rattle TSB's?

    http://www.designenergy.com/jtso/Misc/04-042.pdf

    https://home.comcast.net/~brian.galicia/servicebulletin1.gif
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Has anyone installed an aftermarket alarm on a Legacy or Outback? Subaru doesn't seem to make a decent alarm for any of their cars.
  • thepdmmthepdmm Member Posts: 82
    Yes to both, but the rattle that I feel NEEDS to go is the one around the top of both front doors..

    as far as other ones.. I can deal with a lot of them. but not that one..
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    the rattle that I feel NEEDS to go is the one around the top of both front doors..

    Do you mean a rattle coming from behind the face of the door panel just below where the the door lock prong sticks up through the hole?

    I had rattles there on both front doors, but could stop them by pressing gently on the door panel just below the door lock prong. My dealer fixed those rattles (actually more of a "buzzing" sound) by replacing the door panels. It seems the panels are multi-piece affairs, and a batch of early ones had defective plastic welds joining them together. The welds would buzz whenever I drove over textured roads or cranked the stereo up past "20."

    Anyways, good luck with your quest!
  • thepdmmthepdmm Member Posts: 82
    I guess I would have better explained it by saying the top of the door "interior panel".

    and yes that is what I was referring to. However to me it sounds like it is coming from the middle of the door panel (at the top still).. I can stop it by slightly pushing on the door panel. and I have already had both door panels replaced about two months ago.

    this rattle alone isn't what is making us consider others.. However, it is a big help.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Well again, good luck with whatever you decide.
  • thepdmmthepdmm Member Posts: 82
    Thanks fedlawman! I am still trying to work out what I want to do!

    Curious though what dealership fixed your buzz problem as the problem you had sounds like the problem I have and would like to maybe get in contact with your dealership? Although my dealership has tried very diligently in trying to fix my problem, they have been unsuccessful and maybe tips from your dealership may help them?
  • frisconickfrisconick Member Posts: 1,275
    Bought a TL, but got a TSX loner for a few days, and there is no way the interior of the TSX is as roomy or nice as the TL. The TL is far superior in fit and finish regarding the interior. The TSX is very nice however, just not in the TL class.
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    "Bought a TL, but got a TSX loner for a few days, and there is no way the interior of the TSX is as roomy or nice as the TL. The TL is far superior in fit and finish regarding the interior. The TSX is very nice however, just not in the TL class."

    The fact that the TSX is not as roomy is a GOOD thing, and taste in styling of any sort is purely subjective. The statement that the TL is "far superior in fit and finish regarding the interior" is preposterous.

    Enjoy your new yacht! :)

    Johnny
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Easy guys, same team. :o)

    Do you want a tight cockpit or a spacious cabin? To each his/her own.

    On another subject, could you believe Autoweek?

    0-60 mph: 5.23 sec for their Legacy GT! Yowsah.

    -juice
  • frisconickfrisconick Member Posts: 1,275
    Agreed Johnny, the TSX is a great car, and taste is purely subjective. I was out of line. And yes, I will enjoy my new yacht. :P
  • mikes2mikes2 Member Posts: 43
    Hi, I've seen the comparisons of the 2.5GT vs. the TSX, but don't really think that's comparing apples to apples - especially in terms of purchase price. I'm in the market for a TSX or Legacy, but the Legacy that's closest in price to the TSX is the 2.5i Ltd.

    Has anyone compared the 2.5i non-turbo vs. the TSX? Of course, none of the car reviews are of the 2.5i - all are the GT! Like the TSX, there seems to be a number of comments that the 2.5i isn't too quick.

    Thanks,

    Mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You're right, few people ever test these base models.

    C&D tested a 2004 Legacy L 5 speed, which was similar, and got 0-60 in 8.8 seconds, not bad for a basic (not sporty) sedan. The '05 model is about 80 lbs lighter and has a few more horses (same torque), so it should be at least as quick.

    That's the only reference I have, and it's not even the same generation! People really do not test these models often.

    The 2.5l is probably not unlike the TSX' 2.4l until you get into the high rpm range, then the Acura would walk away from it.

    I saw a left over '05 model at fitzmall.com for about $22 grand, this one an automatic. My wife wants to trade in her 5 speed and get an auto for a painful commute she has to take each day. Equipment levels are great for the price - heated seats, AWD, ABS, alloys, heated leather, moonroof, 6CD changer, etc.

    We might end up getting one of those and then adding a Garmin c330 NAV unit.

    Dislike compared to our 2002 - they ditched the standard double-DIN stereo, so that limits aftermarket options.

    -juice
  • simplemindsimplemind Member Posts: 8
    ateixeira re. the Garmin C330, have you looked for something that fits in the upper cubby hole on the dash (above radio)? Seems a perfect spot for a GPS unit.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Update: we actually bought a Garmin c320, but we still have not traded in her '02 Legacy. We decided it didn't make sense to trade a perfectly reliable car that's under a 7/100 B-to-B warranty and fully paid off.

    Any how, the c320 does fit in the top bin in my Forester, but then the cover blocks the satellite signal. So we just use the suction cup mount that comes with it, and mount it to the windshield. Works like a charm.

    Check out the NAV thread - I've shared plenty of feedback on that unit. Basically a good low-cost option, we paid $424 (plus $70 for a 1GB SD card), which is about a 25% of what it costs as a factory option, for 95% of the functionality.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So we can take this to the appropriate thread:

    ateixeira, "Navigation / GPS Systems" #259, 4 Aug 2005 4:08 pm

    BTW, c320 > c330 because it has an SD slot, so you can upgrade or buy maps for Europe, for instance.

    -juice
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Thanks, juice. ;)
  • xnewman1xnewman1 Member Posts: 10
    5.23 sec. for a Legacy GT!!? :surprise: Was there any adjustments or tweaks to the engine for that test or was it strickly stock?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Supposedly stock, but there is a press fleet and you never know if it was a "ringer", as they call 'em.

    Autoweek must've launched the AWD powertrain perfectly. It was quicker than their V8 Audi S4.

    -juice
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    My money's on it being a ringer!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That was quick, but C&D's took 5.7s, and even some autos were in the low 6s.

    -juice
  • ingvaringvar Member Posts: 205
    Crap&Drive very funny magazine. FWD can't have handling better than AWD. It is very easy to see at winter time.
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    Crap&Drive very funny magazine. FWD can't have handling better than AWD. It is very easy to see at winter time.

    This is a load of BS. :D
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Just cross the bridge - pay no mind to the troll...
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    ROFL!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So, what are the changes for the 06 Acuras?

    06 Legacy got a reinforced structure and got the Gold award for the IIHS. The only other mid-size to match the overall safety is the Saab 9-3, so kudos to them for the improvement.

    NAV is also an option, finally.

    What about the Acuras? Any significant changes?

    -juice
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    The TSX got some cosmetic changes and the hp bumped up to 205.

    tom
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    The TSX gets Bluetooth, memory seats, reworked gauges, auxiliary output (MP3 capable), ~10 HP bump in power, reworked front fascia (now has integrated fog lights), taillights and side skirts, and new wheels.

    Folks, feel free to jump in if I missed anything. I think that's all of it. :shades:
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    Real world HP will likely work out to be closer to 10 than 5 HP. The new SAE standards account for the seeming discrepancy.

    The early returns on the '06 TSX are that the power boost is definitely noticeable on the butt dyno. Some also claim that build quality is even better than '04-'05's, though I would think this remains to be seen. The cars are brand-new, after all. All this is coming from owners who traded '04-'05 TSX's for '06's.

    Hopefully, any rattle issues have been resolved. I've even heard the throttle tip-in/lag issue has been addressed. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep, on Accords, too.

    BT is cool, your NAV can use your phone to make a call to a number stored in the points-of-interest.

    -juice
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849

    auxiliary output (MP3 capable)


    I think it is auxiliary INPUT.

    Krzys
  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    My local subie dealer had a 2005 GT languishing on its lot with and MSRP of ~$27,500 and with a posted price reduced to ~$23,000 (OK its not the Limited but it still had a leather steering wheel and shift knob so the surfaces that get the most use felt upscale:-) and it had all that intoxicating power and tight handling. I procrastinated too long and now it's gone... I don't know if I'll ever see a price performance ratio like that again... I've heard of post purchase dissonance but never non-purchase dissonance!
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "I don't know if I'll ever see a price performance ratio like that again.."

    You can still get that .....at your local Ford dealer with a Mustang GT. ;)
  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    I've taken test drives in a manual 6-sp V6^ Accord Coupe, an auto TL and a manual Legacy GT. All are entertaining cars but only one made me think there was something wrong with my 99 Passat when I got back in it to drive away... The Legacy GT really seems to have a lot more low end grunt than the other two. I hear comments about turbo lag but I have to say it's almost imperceptible on the Legacy GT (maybe its because I really know what turbo lag is :-) My 1.8 turbo REALLY needs to have the rpm's up a ways to get a decent launch the revs don't have to be sky high but if you let the clutch out before you've built up the revs a bit it's like stepping into a sink hole) I've driven the Legacy a couple times and even in the automatic found it to be very responsive (never thought I'd say that about an auto). The TL is by far the most attractive of the three but none of them are bad looking rigs and value you find in a V-6 6-speed Accord Coupe is hard to deny. I honestly think you could put an Acura badge on it and it would fit nicely in their line up. We are very fortunate to be able to have choices like this...
  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    Ya I'd just have to tow my golf clubs around behind the Stang and leave it in garage whenever we get one of our 7 inches of precip a year in the form of hard rain or snow... :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You gotta pounce on opportunities like that, trouble is, it's not like you have $23,000 in cash laying around to spend on a whim.

    The GT, coupled to a manual transmission, has very little lag at all. With the auto I sensed some lag, but not much with a clutch.

    C&D's Forester XT (same engine, tuned for LESS power) ran to 30mph off the line quicker than a Ferrari Enzo. Not much lag there!

    -juice
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I test drove an auto GT when it first came out and my seat of the pants assessment was that it has less low-end grunt than the CL-S I had at the time. Not much turbo lag though.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There's no doubt that engine mates up best to a manual trans. It unleashes every horse available.

    -juice
  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    The one downside of AWD of Four Wheel Drive is it seems to make people think they can stop in the snow and ice... I live on the corner of an intersection at the bottom of two steep hills. Today we got a nasty dose of freezing rain and I was entertained for an hour and a half by "Stars on Ice"! To be fair it wasn't just 4bys that were providing the entertainment but of the 8 (count em 8) cars that lost it coming down the hills 7 were all wheel drives. That doesn't count the Hummer owner who crashed once - drove back up the hill then came back down the same hill a little while later this time sliding down the on-coming lane (well actually scaping tires against the curb the whole way down :-).

    I called the police after my neighbor's cars dodged the first 3 bullets but got hit by the 4th contestant. The guy in the Land Cruiser went for a 2fer and hit both of their cars! I had called neighbor's twice and gone and knocked on the door to try and warn them and on the third call got the dad (who had been in the shower) and told him he should come outside because his cars were gonna... make that just got hit....

    Then a lady in a Suburban locked up on the other hill and just slowly slid towards the curb and rear ended a parked full size Ford pickup that ended up rolling 300 yards before it finally parked itself in a driveway at the bottom of the hill (pointed backwards). The unmanned pickup managed to pick off one neighbors car on the way by (they don't count in the total since they didn't have drivers). It was kind of like one of those insurance ads on TV where that golf ball causes all the damage...

    I think I may have decided in favor of the subie just based on this short display - that crash test rating it got recently might be more important than I thought! :-)
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Precisely. AWD/4WD helps with forward motion, but not with stopping. The problem with AWD/4WD is overconfidence which is often exacerbated by people driving in large vehicles.

    I hope no one was seriously injured in that accident!

    Ken
  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    No one in the cars appeared to suffer any injuries however two neighbor girls whose parked cars got hit probably are pretty sore from taking nasty falls on their sidewalks as they came out to check on the damage done to their cars....

    It was feet in the air flat on your back slick out. I made the mistake of stepping off the grass once and barely avoided my own fall before I gingerly turned around and shuffled my way back to the grass.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    that crash test rating it got recently might be more important than I thought!

    Bwa-ha-ha-ha-haaah!

    The AWD is secondary, then.

    -juice
  • stillageekstillageek Member Posts: 114
    HID's are hot, but the reason the Maximas are so targeted is they slide right in to regular "non-HID" Maximas. Since TSX and TL both come with HID standard, a thief would be less likely to steal them.
  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    LOL - well that's not what I was thinking when I made that comment more that I want to be in a good crash worthy car since there are so many 4X$ bobsledders in our neighborhood!
  • janrx7janrx7 Member Posts: 1
    last year, I leased an STi (replacing a WRX which replaced a twin turbo RX7).

    When my wife's Acura CL lease was up, we looked at the three cars. The Mazda 6 was out because of its lower performance, throttle lag and the poor reputation (and experience) with Mazda dealers in the DC area.

    The TSX was a really nice car, but it just didn't match the performance and handling of the Legacy GT Limited (both with Automatic).

    We have had the Legacy for 12,000 miles and one year and it is a really nice, comfortable car. The Bridgestone tires on it are terrible, but not as bad as the ones that came with the WRX.

    All-in-all, I recommend the Legacy GT without hesitation.
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    The TSX was a really nice car, but it just didn't match the performance and handling of the Legacy GT Limited (both with Automatic).

    You're absolutely right. The TSX's handling is superior to the Legacy GT's. :shades: And please, if you're going to drive a TSX, drive the 6 MT version.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru really ought to upgrade the OE tires it uses, almost without exception they are poor compromises.

    MazdaSpeed6 looks pretty interesting...sort of a gentleman's STI/EVO. It competes with the Legacy Spec B, sort of.

    -juice
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