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Paying more than MSRP for (new) Hybrids, Depreciation/Value of used Hybrids
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Comments
If you take the same warranty cost and put it in stocks or other interest accruing assets ,you would actually come out ahead and would then pay MSRP or less. The real bummer is reading all the fine print and exclusions on that extended warranty. However the key new item the HSD battery system is already covered by a manufacturers warranty.
The Prius may be more complex because of the HSD systems and more software control of the locomotion process. And then there are those nasty Prius software problems that keep surfacing.
Keep on Truck'n,
MidCow
As for parts on the hybrids. I think the Prius II has enough units out that parts should not be a problem. The Prius Classic sold very few in the US and may be subject to high repair costs. Just as the Honda Insight battery is over $5000 to replace. Hybrid repair costs are somewhat unknown, which makes resale value unknown.
It is FAR better than the "all over the board" E-Bay prices. E-Bay is the WORST car buying model known to man.
I'm not one to bad mouth our Hosts. I will accept the TMV prices set forth. Will you then accept Edmund's TCO on the same hybrids? If so the TCO for the Prius & Honda hybrids is higher than any of the comparables. The Prius & HCH show higher than average depreciation. Hybrids also show a higher cost per mile over the 5 year period.
The depreciation are estimates, which we know at this time have not yet come true - everyone knows that Used Hybrids are going for astronomical resale value, and that is going to continue for some time.
But the problem with that is: we all know how "awful terrible insulting" dealers are when it comes to offering trade-in values on ANY car. Hybrids will be no worse or better - it's just another car, like any other car, that the dealer will want to LOWBALL you for on trade-in.
"Well I went to the Toyota dealer last night with my 03 Prius and he offered me 16,500 for my car. I did the math and with 35,500 miles on the 03 I felt like it was the right thing to do. I lowered my payment by $5, got a 3 year warranty and a vehicle that has a lot more amenities than the 03."
So getting $16,500 trade value for a 2003 Prius with 35,500 miles seems pretty darn good. This owner paid $24,200 for a new 2005 Prius with Package #4 at MSRP, only had to pay the diff of $7700.
That used to be a joke when I was a kid, "the rich people bought a new Cadillac because the tire went flat" No foreign cars back then.
It's never too late to become the wiser and ..."HYBRIDIZE."
PS.. Last night I stopped to help out a guy driving an "Excursion". He ran out of gas....Hmmmmmmmm. No surprise there. Funny thing he said was...."Wanna trade?" I smiled!
Try towing a boat, or carrying 7 passengers, with your Prius and report back. Every vehicle has it's uses.
As to those comments concerning my Prius hauling a boat ....Actually I do haul a boat.....a Canoe & kayak. They really are a great way to see it all. Of course I can't get momma to para-sail behind the canoe and I can't get her to pull me water-skiing but I haven't given up yet. She insists she wants to lose weight. What better way!! Come to think of it...I could lose a few lbs too!
By the way....Isn't an Excursion technically a SEMI??
Railroadjames(I think I sold him on a Prius come to think of it)
Many of the diesel Excursion owners are claiming 20+MPG. It is the best large SUV for mileage & towing. Not every one needs one. For us in remote locations it is the best vehicle available. If you look at consumers reviews you will find that owners like the Excursion as well as the Prius owners like their car. Your anti-SUV bias is not making a case for the hybrids. It is only polarizing prospective buyers. When you tell someone they are driving a piece of crap, They will more than likely not want anything you would drive.
Railroadjames( the times.. they are a changing)
I drive a CR-V and my wife drives a Civic, at least that is what I am assuming you mean by your first sentence, since any other meaning would be childish. The CR-V fits my needs and has far more light off road and cargo capacity than the Prius.
- How heavy is the boat you haul behind either of those two Prius? You should also note that you would have paid more than twice as much for those two vehicles than for one Excursion, which might pay for some of that gas.
- The excursion is eligible for the diesel engine and probably gets around 20MPG with that setup.
My point is that some people do have a legitimate need for a large SUV. Just because you see some with only one person inside doesn't mean that the vehicle isn't used for it's design purpose at other times. Maybe that little lady just dropped off most of the soccer team at practice, including all equipment.
Hey this guy that I network with in user meetings is now conserving gas he traded in his two minivans for one 12 passenger vechicle to save gas. He has 6 kids :P if you can imagine.
Most SUVs area joke. only 5-10% every go off road and most rarely haul their capacity and those that do hauls passengers, not weight.
For those that haul big boats, why do you need big boats ?
YMMV,
MidCow
The Chevy Surburban has been around since 1939, but I think those folks used station wagons that got about the same bad MPG as todays SUVs.
"With your CRV, you merely have a Civic on stilts. I would never want to venture anywhere on a trail with a CRV."
Well, I do take it onto secondary off roads, and it is not merely a civic. It actually turns shorter, and the suspension and all other components have been strengthened. It did start out with a Civic platform, but the end product is not as you describe. I would not take it too far into the boonies, it simply wasn't designed for that. It has a little over 8 inches of clearance.
The European CR-V diesel is getting about 40 MPG. Perhaps with the new low sulfur diesel in 2007 CARB will allow the diesels.
Remind me again of the towing capacity of the Prius? So far the only boats towed have been canoes. Just how small a boat do you want to take on the open ocean?
One aspect I expect around the corner is "rationing". Boy! That ought to shake things up when and if that ever happens. :sick:
Railroadjames ( a change is in order)
With gasoline prices now around $3 a gallon, you might think it makes a lot of sense that hybrid cars are hot sellers.
Actually, it doesn't -- at least not a lot of financial sense.
They may make a social statement you're interested in, but if you want to save money because of rising gas prices, you're heading down the wrong road, at least for now.
Some simple calculations by our partners at Edmunds.com revealed the following:
A hybrid Honda Accord costs about $3,800 more than the comparable non-hybrid version, including purchase, maintenance and insurance costs. Over five years, assuming 15,000 miles of driving per year, you'll make up that cost in gasoline money if the price of gas goes up immediately to $9.20 a gallon and averages that for the whole period.
CNN Money Hybrid myth
"One aspect I expect around the corner is "rationing". Boy! That ought to shake things up when and if that ever happens. "
I think we we see more of a self-imposed rationing, invoked by higher taxes. As the price of fuel continues to increase, people will self-impose more limited driving. Even at $3.00 per gallon people are driving for better mpg, buying less SUVs, and taking less unnecessary trips.
When the price gets to $10.00 per gallon, there will be no need for rationing. When it takes $75 to fill up your Prius, imagine what the Hummer will cost, if they still exist!
YMMV,
MidCow
P.S.- Have you notice the latest diesel price controls ?
Railroadjames(less gas..more miles)
Oh, I wouldn't say that. Some people have a large truck or SUV just for towing the boat & etc. Such people might want a more economical car for around town. And if they can afford the boat, they can also afford a Prius.
Here is one man who is training mechanics to work on Priuses. Goes to emphasize my point that just like every other techological advance, there will be indpendent shops who can work on Hybrids - it will NOT be a "dealer only" service option in coming years.
"Dunn will co-host the radio show on WICN with Labelle and Craig Van Batenburg, who teaches mechanics how to service hybrids. Labelle, a 61-year-old native of Quebec who lives in Hudson, has had an interesting career path, to say the least. In 1981, he said he co-founded Cambridge Isotope Laboratories, a developer of stable isotopes and chemical compounds. Labelle retired in 1988 after the company went public. He sold his shares in the labs around 1995, he said. After retiring, he spent time consulting, focusing on investments and traveling before founding the Hybrid Center six years ago. It wasn't money that caused the career shift, he says; he already has enough to live on. He was sick of playing golf, and wanted something new.
"By building a hybrid center they gave me an opportunity to expound my beliefs and give people an alternative solution to transportation," Labelle said."
Are they environmentally friendly sailboats, or evil cabin cruisers?
USA Today Hybrid Myth
But even if drivers maximize their fuel savings and get the full 13-mpg benefit in the Hybrid, they'd need about 16 years of 15,000-mile annual travel before the gasoline savings—estimated at $2.25 a gallon—would recoup the $4,300 extra they paid for the Hybrid over the Civic LX.
MSN