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Paying more than MSRP for (new) Hybrids, Depreciation/Value of used Hybrids
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The combined fuel economy of the non-hybrid is 35 mpg; the hybrid, 50 mpg, a theoretical difference of 15 mpg. In five years of average driving (15,000 miles per year), I would save 643 gallons, or $1,929 (assuming a gas price of $3 per gallon), with the hybrid. Combined with the current tax deduction (a savings of $580 in my tax bracket) I recoup 90% of the hybrid premium in five years. If I were to buy the Honda Civic hybrid in January 2006, the numbers look even better. The federal tax deduction becomes a credit worth $2,100. Combined with my fuel savings I actually come out about $1,200 ahead.
Now, put your calculators away, because the point is not whether I, or you, will recoup penny-for-penny the hybrid investment, since the compensations are not exclusively monetary. The hybrid haters actually have a valid point when they declaim the technology as touchy-feely. Its appeal is emotional, but that's not the same as irrational."
From this recent LA Times article:
http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-neil12oct12,0,917822.story?col- l=la-home-headlines&track=hppromobox
Also while the VW TDI is a fule efficient diesel it is not as reliable as a Toyota Prius.
The "Usa Today Hybrid Myth" maybe an ole-wive's tale itself purposfully manipulating facts.
The Myth buster,
MidCow
One little problem with these numbers.
As we all know, the hybrid will probably sell for MSRP or more, but the EX sedan won't.
Nobody really would pay MSRP for a plain ole Civic, new redesign or not.
This would make the hybrid premium well over the 2790 you quote.
I agree it's just than some people are more interested in a sprint than a marathon
An ole miler,
MidCow
This you can verify for yourself and become your own reporter:
Standard Prius w/ Pkge #4 - $24500 ( S+C A/B, VSC, SKS )
Standard LE 4c Camry...... - $22400 ( S+C A/B, VSC )
Standard LX 4c Accord...... - $22400 ( S+C A/B, VSC )
With gas @ $2.75/gal:
The Prius owner will 'recover' his $2000 premium in a little over 2 yrs at 15K mi/yr...At 25K mi/yr it will be recovered in 18 mos. I drive 45K mi/yr and I will recover it in 10 months.
The $500-600 Tax incentive in 2005 for the Prius balances any discount you can get on an '05 ICE Camry/Accord. But NEXT year the Prius likely will be LESS expensive vis-a-vis the Camry/Accord due to the larger Tax Credit.
This really is a no brainer for some drivers and it's not a myth. But it is not for all drivers yet and it's not intended to be for all drivers at this time.
You cant compare the Prius to the Civic/Corolla because they are not the same class of vehicle or have the same features. You dont compare a Civic to an Acura do you?
If you only want fuel efficiency and are willing to give up something like ride or size or MILES (?) then consider comparing a Certified USED Prius to a Civic/Corolla. Then you can get a midsized '04 Pkge #4 Prius w/ 30-35K miles at about the same price as a new Compact Civic/Corolla and still save money on fuel in the long run.
kdhspyder
What does an ICE only Prius cost ? That's what we should compare the Prius too.
The prius is not exactly anything, not really in the Camry class but almost, Not really in the Accord class but almost, Not really in the Civic class but almost, not really in the Corolla calss but almost. Do you comapre it to other midsize because it has a hatchbach which without it would be compact, Do you compare it to economy ? Do you compare it based on price? Do you compare it to other hybrids? Do you compare it based on perfromance? Do you compare it to other hatchbacks? Do you compare it based on features? It seems to have some luxury features: Xexon, smart card, Nav and some truly ecnomy features: no power seat, no sun roof, no fully dusk-to-dawn snesing automatic lights. So what do you call it a hatch-ecolux-hybrid class? Some compare it to a duck-billed platerpus
MSRP pricing is pretty funny way to compare since the Prius sells at MSRP and all the others you compared it to are discounted.
Again , I say the olny real car you can compare it to isd the non-hybrid version of the Prius, which doesn't exist.
On a more serious note, is the pricing and option packages available for the 2006 Prius. When will they be available ?
How about telling Toyota, that people want manual shift hybrids as an option!
Cruis'n in 6th,
MidCow
(2) The Prius has been around long enough to determine high battery replacement costs.
A statement without supporting supporting facts. As of today most Gen1 Prius are entering their 6th yr of service with on average 70-90K miles. If any batteries or segments have had to be replaced the cost to the buyer is - ZERO! They are still under warranty.
As you know from reading other posts -as I am sure you have - the entire battery doesnt fail all at once if it fails at all. The replacement cost per segment is about $100-150 each. This is a non issue at the moment unless you can provide data about significant numbers of Prius battery replacements.
Your driving preferences are entirely your own. But unsubstantiated statements are not necessary.
On the subject topic it is very difficult for dealers to get Prius' back in trade. Most preowned ones are given to other family members when the original owner opts for a new one or they are sold retail in the paper. We've had 2 this entire year.; an '04 and an '03. The '04 went for ~$20K ( pkge #2 ) and the '03 went last weekend for $18300 ( I traded it for $16900 + 600 reconditioning and Certification costs ).
kdhspyder
You are right of course that no ICE Prius exists. In this absence the best comparison is to a Camry/Accord/Altima due to the interior room ( passengers and cargo ), ride comfort due to its longer wheel base and speed ( same 0-60 as a 4c Camcord ).
The Prius is sold at sticker but a similarly equipped Camcord is not far under sticker. If one wanted a Camcord with all the safety features of a Package 2 Prius the transaction price now is likely in the $21K+ range from a $22500 sticker price.
I've seen the new package contents on the '06 which are being built as we speak. They will be shipped early next month to arrive on the WC around Thanksgiving and on the EC a few days later. I've heard that pricing will be announced at the end of OCT.(?)
We already have quite a few orders for the '06 with prices 'To Be Determined' but with delivery specified for AFTER 1-1-06. I will keep you informed if I hear more.
kdhspyder
Well actually that is way off! The Prius at best is 1.3 seconds slower and at worst 2.6 seconds slower
Let's take an unbiased source Auto.ConsumerGuide reports:
Prius ( auto) 10.5
4-cyl Camry (auto) 9.2 (4-speed, 5-speed should be faster)
4-cyl Camry (manual) estimate= 8.7
4-cyl Accord (auto) 8.6
4-cyl Accord (manual) 7.9
Pricing right now on 2006 models on all iPriuss close to MSRP, But alreay Camry's and Accords can be had for less than MSRP and in six months closer to invoice. That is several thoiusand dollar difference.
Again I ask , where is my manual shift Prius. Can I special order ? iwould be thier prototype tester.
Cheers,
MidCow
That's holding about 99% of the new value after 15K miles.
What a crazy world !!! :shades:
Does anyone know if a second owner is elibile for the 2006 tax credit or does this only apply towards first time titled?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Hybrids: The Great Battery Debate discussion.
Let's pay attention to the topics please.
The 2006 Camry is also rated 9 SULEV II. It is going for somewhat less than the Prius. Also larger, faster and better handling.
If being PZEV was such a priority for those buying hybrids. How many of you bought the 2000 Nissan Sentra that was rated a 9 with a CARB rating of PZEV. Hybrids do not have a corner on clean cars. At least 30 cars are available with a PZEV rating. They are not all strapped with a big hybrid premium.
That $1000 premium I paid may or may not have been a good deal. Only time will tell. If the truck had not had the 5.3L V8 that I wanted I would not have bought it. MPG was the least of my consideration. I like not having to waste money on smog tests. I like the quiet starts. Would I recommend this or any other hybrid to a friend? Only if they were so unfortunate as to have an extremely long commute every day. I do have a very useful truck for a lot less than you will pay for your Prius. I imagine the difference will pay my gas bill for the next 3 years. By that time some company will have a midsize PU with a diesel engine for me to buy.
How many do you think they built? If anyone paid MSRP $36,900 I would agree. If they paid the TMV of $27k it was not a bad deal. I Paid a bit over $24k and think I made out very well for the truck I got. It is quite obvious that several of those posting are not familiar with the IIHS ratings on cars and trucks. They would find out that the insurance companies consider the GM PU trucks, some of the safest vehicles on the road. For me and millions of other Americans the only practical vehicle is a PU truck. I don't see anything in the Sierra class that compares power or mileage wise.
And just like the Prius NO smog checks here in CA. 10 years from now my Sierra will be worth $7k to $8k and the $27k Prius will be worth little or nothing. You may have to pay to dispose of the batteries.
Concerning Malaproprisms, spelling, grammar, and incorerct use of words should not be judge here in my opinion. If the thought is clear so be it.
However if someone is already a moron Intelligence level, then wouldn't a labotomy further reduce their mental capacity to the level of my Golden Retriever ?
Most enviromentalist groups exist to get a rise out of people; I would save Bluewater Network suceeded see post hrao, "Any downside to buying a hybrid?" #444, 24 Oct 2005 11:29 am
Don't let things like that get your dander up., However, the world could use more Golden retrievers.
Cheers,
MidCow
Why not? Does a hybrid cost even less to operate as gas prices increase? Let's see you make that same statement if/when gas prices reach say, $5/gallon...
I assume you were just being somewhat facetious with your "$4000 more" comment 'cuz I'd be willing to bet that even the majority of Prius owners--or any hybrid owner, for that matter--would not be able to afford to fill up his/her vehicle at those gas prices, no matter how much he/she would save compared to a non-hybrid owner...
Heck, even at $10/gallon I'd be willing to bet that even some of those hybrids would be seeing less time out on the roads.
Ten More Weeks for my Prius..... WOO HOO!!
MidCow
My third wife raised Goldens. They were very nice dogs. They don't like to be left alone, her best female Pumpkin chewed up my $1200 pair of Lucchese boots while we were at work. Otherwise they are great dogs. No hybrids allowed
Synopsis: You do NOT buy a hybrid to save money. Those who think so are being hyped ( ) by the media. Saving money is done by buying a Rio or Yaris or a Certified Used Echo for under $10K.. or NOT buying a new vehicle at all. Repeat: you do NOT buy a hybrid to save money - only - it's a nice side benefit.
synopsis: Do NOT buy a hybrid only to save money on fuel. Its usually not worth it.. BTW I would pay for the differential in 14 mo's with the driving I do. So it's relative. LOL
P.S. The Prius is not in the same class as a Corolla or Civic. They are not comparable as apples/apples. But if you are going to compare it to something you might compare it to a 2.0L Passat.
You might be surprised by this little item but the Prius is almost exactly the same size as your Passat.
0.4" difference in wheelbase
more cargo room in the Prius
Passenger room is the same or slightly more in the Prius.
Oh and you recover the 'hybrid premium' the instant you drive off the lot. The Prius goes for less.. similarly equippped. YPMV..