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Diesel MiniVans

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    any diesel minivans avail in US now?

    Not presently. I am sure when low sulfur diesel is mandated next year there will be a flood of modern, quiet & powerful diesel cars, minivans and SUVs. Europe has had them for several years. It is only because we have not cleaned up our diesel that they have not proliferated in the USA. They are a much more practical solution to the energy and CO2 problem than gas or gas/hybrids.

    PS
    The vans built by Mercedes and sold in the US as Dodge Sprinter are very economical to drive. They get an honest 25 MPG on diesel. They have a great safety record and LOTS of room.
  • supcrdssupcrds Member Posts: 11
    I saw a similar post on another Diesel forum. Something about "Diesel drivers should have to have the exhaust plumbed back through the car so they have to smell it first". I think if you look into and smell a new clean burn Diesel running low sulfer fuel you will find the smell different but not bad. If it is running veg oil it might even make you hungry. If you look at the numbers from the EPA you will see they run pretty clean, higher in some areas but lower in others. Getting between 30% and 35% better economy can't be all bad (in the case of the VW TDI's way better torque too). After driving behind a 79 Chevy truck for a few miles I think "they should have to have the exhaust plumbed back through the car so they have to smell it first." Todays diesels are a different breed from 20 years ago as are gassers.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Mercedes appears to be THE Leader in developing cleaner, quieter diesel engines but I am pleasantly surprised at how much quieter and cleaner the Isuzu Turbomax diesel is in the newer Chevy pickups as they drive past my home. The Ford PowerStoke engines are the most obnoxious for both noise and smell. :sick:
  • ddrageddrage Member Posts: 1
    I live in upstate New York, use a wheelchair, and seriously am considering a Sprinter. Reliability is a major concern. I'm worried about starting in the cold. Any recomendations??
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I own a Sprinter conversion van. I picked it up new in Colorado. We spent the night with the van outside. It was zero in the morning and it started right up. I love that diesel and 5 speed automatic. We got 22 MPG driving in the mountains back to San Diego.
  • cyclopathiccyclopathic Member Posts: 2
    I had email Mazda USA and they answered that they have no plans to import it. I would buy one in a heartbeat, my '96 Protege has 260,000mi and avg 35mpg, would be a good replacement
  • cyclopathiccyclopathic Member Posts: 2
    they use imperial galons which are ~20% more then US galon, so it is not 44mpg, only 36.5. Still good
  • garyodsgaryods Member Posts: 7
    For the last couple of years I've rented a Ford minivan (Galaxy I think) came with a 1.8 TD. With 4 BIG people in it and each carrying enough baggage for 2+ weeks, driving in the Alps and on Autobans got about 35 MPG and had plenty of power. They had 6 spd manual trannys and took a bit more shifting than I'm used tom but it really wasn't a problem. Also no problem cruising at 100 MHP!

    While I'm not a minivan buyer, I'd take that engine in a heartbeat in a compact pickup married to a 6 spd and a hi - low range transfer case (ideally a Tacoma but a Frod Ranger Crew cab would be OK - see those Ford CC's in Mexico all the time),
  • fredrubblefredrubble Member Posts: 2
    I am in a co-op to make bio-diesel in north carolina. I am married with kids, and need a new mini van, diesel ofcourse, with the intent of burning pure bio in it.. I have been looking for a minivan and have found that the town and country and the kia company have them available in the U.K. I am considering going to canada to purchase one and bring it to the US, any idea on the import costs???

    Fred
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Welcome to the Forum,

    It is not the import duty that is the problem. It is getting it past the EPA. If it is not on their list of acceptable vehicles you will have a hassle. The only diesel van right now, that is EPA approved, is the Mercedes/Dodge Sprinter. The big one gets an honest 22-25 MPG. And they are big inside. You can haul a lot of people and stuff. The shorter 118 inch wheelbase model should get even better mileage.
  • fredrubblefredrubble Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for the welcome and the post.

    That Dodge Sprinter is UGLY UGLY UGLY. I think I am going to change my quest from a Mini van to a truck with the diesel such as a Ford F-250 with the power stroke diesel. I have driven this truck and really like it, however it is a bit pricey, again married with kids.. Perhaps a used one may fit my budget better. The journey never stops..

    Frustrated in the USA.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That Dodge Sprinter is UGLY UGLY UGLY

    My last 410 mile tank I got 24.58 MPG. Mine is a fully loaded conversion van. So I am happier than a pig in mud. Which is also very ugly.
  • mrnimmomrnimmo Member Posts: 271
    >they use imperial galons which are ~20% more then US galon, so it is not 44mpg, only 36.5.

    36.5 is still good for sure. To get 37 mpg in the US you have to drive a Fit, Yaris or hybrid.

    BRING ON THE SMALL DIESELS!!!!

    I like the Sprinter, but my wife just won't compromise on the looks. It is fugly.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    What the Mercedes diesel Sprinter proves is you can make larger utility vehicles that get good mileage. I topped my mileage with a tank that I got 24.80, mostly in the mountains of AZ. Up to the Grand Canyon and down to Prescott. Can you imagine a small minivan like a Honda with a 4 cylinder diesel. It should get easy 35-40 MPG. I can guarantee the diesel is better suited for loads than any gasser. I drive that 8000 lb Sprinter up and over a lot of steep highways with no problem. Never drop below 3rd gear.

    The Sprinter may be ugly but it tops anything else sold in the USA in the Van/MiniVan category. Not perfect but practical.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    What I don't get is why DC isn't putting that I5 Diesel in the Town & Country and Caravan series. Think about it this way, that engine has almost the exact same peak torque specification as the largest 3.8 liter MiniVan engine (but the peak comes at over 2000 fewer RPMs, not a bad thing at all), and certainly more than enough HP for a minivan.

    So I have to ask the question, "Why a small four pot diesel when a larger five pot unit will still give great mileage and very decent performance too?"

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I don't know the answer. Maybe that 5C engine and 5 speed tiptronic is too expensive to stick in a lower priced MiniVan. The basic Sprinter stripped is about $30K. It is rear wheel drive and would require some real work to put in a minivan. I love that engine and transmission. Just tap it up or down. Going down hill it does real well using the engine to brake you.

    I think in the Caravan it would easily get 35 MPG.
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    It would be to good to be true if something simple as adding a small diesel to a mini van.
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    i remembered reading this link a while back, good news for canadians. i am just waiting to trade in my 2000 MPV for a fuel efficient diesel minivan.

    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/11/chrysler_canada.html
  • tdinicktdinick Member Posts: 4
    GMC makes a Duramax diesel (runs on B5 biodiesel) full size van but it's made for cargo and not people. Why don't they let the consumer order a passenger van with the Duramax diesel option? No wonder GM is losing money!
  • smulveysmulvey Member Posts: 139
    It is too bad Kia does not bring their Sedona over with the standard diesel they sell overseas, to the USA market.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    you aren't going to see a 40 mpg (highway) diesel minivan,
    but maybe a 'microvan'.
    30 mpg for a minivan maybe. because
    air drag is proportional to the square of frontal surface area.
    in sprinter news, i test drove the tiniest one and found handling & turning radius much better than expected. road noise at highway speed was horrid however. gagrice how about a photo of the decked-out conversion in yours. where was the conversion done? how is road noise at 70 mph?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It is not as quiet as my GMC hybrid PU or the Lexus for sure. Not horrible either. I guess average for a RV of that size. It was done by Forest River in Indiana. I would say they are good not quite as good as the Airstream, though less expensive by about 10 grand. I will tell you where I was the most impressed was coming up the mountains out of the desert. It has plenty of power and it does not hurt the mileage significantly. If you want to cruise & camp across the USA at a reasonable price it is hard to beat. Personally I would rather fly and rent a car. Also to get 24 MPG you have to stay under 70 MPH. More like 60-65 MPH. It is a bit disconcerting in high wind or when getting passed by big trucks.

    image

    image

    image
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    wow, thanks for the photos/info, gagrice. that looks like a comfy roadtrip/camper vehicle! great locations too.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    If I drive my Sienna at 65 it can get 30 mpg - I would think a diesel could certainly get close to 40.
  • berniedgberniedg Member Posts: 54
    Hi All, I posted the following on the 2007 Santa Fe forum because I like the looks of the new SF to replace my '98 Dodge Caravan.

    Heres a diesel review by a New Zealand publication.
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU0607/S00137.htm

    The 2.2l CRD, turbo:
    Hows 335 Nm/ 247 lb-ft of torque between 1800-2500 RPM and 47 mpg(Imperial) average. Also cruises 2000rpm 100kph.
    I'd like to see it here, in N/A.
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    Wonder what became of this planned VW minivan. If it is still coming, a Pump Deuse on a Chrysler minivan would be nice. Good VW engine sans the crappy VW body with cheaper parts to boot.

    Still, i would prefer a Touran like design. But thats only me, since I would prolly want to squeeze the most mileage from a tank.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/FVDP/Preview/styleId=100217699
  • dpughdpugh Member Posts: 14
    greeting from Germany. I recently purchased a Kia Carnival (Sedona) 2.9ltr (common rail diesel injection). It is the previous shaped model and not the short fat ugly new Kia Sedona. It is called a Carnival in Mainland Europe for marketing reasons, whatever they might be. I have colleagues which brought their US Sedonas with them when posted to Stuttgart Germany and I can tell you these guys are pig sick. My European vehicle is loaded with extras and of course with that all important Diesel engine. I cruise on the Autobahn at a respectable 80 mph and still manage to get 38.4 mpg (US NOT IMPERIAL). The initial price is $1200 more than standard gasoline engined vehicle. The servicing is every 15000kms (9,320 miles). I have been assurred by kia that in between oil changes are not required!! I have also read that Diesel is refined in Europe to a higher specification to that of the US. Any body wanting photos then please send me a message and i will email them. The Chrysler Minivans in Europe are made under Licence in Austria, or at least were until recently. Good luck and safe driving.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    This just proves - once again - that European's have the best choice of all types of vehicles, thanks to the U.S. Government's requirements in emmissions and safety. If you've ever travelled to Europe, and happen to be a car enthusiast, you will understand what I mean.
  • dpughdpugh Member Posts: 14
    hi there w9cw, all new diesel vehicles in Europe are fitted with a Diesel Particle Filter which reduces emissions to once unheard of levels. The technology is being pioneered amongst others by Daimler/Chrysler. Emmissions and safety requirements in Europe are equal to and in some cases exceed American requirements. I do however think that stateside the consumer has more overall choice, and gets more for their $$$. I paid 18500 euros ($23,000*) which was still 8000 under list price. As Globilization takes a hold the products in world markets will converge. Take care all..
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Thanks for making us jealous. We can only dream about a mini van that gets 38 MPG. I don't think it will happen in the USA. Too many political implications to allow diesel a foothold as it has in the EU.
  • dpughdpugh Member Posts: 14
    the average price for 1 gallon (US) is currently $5.24. And that is for Diesel, gasoline is 60 cents per gallon (US) more expensive!! I dream of $3 per gallon fuel prices. Taxes amount to 73cents per litre, and guess what, joe public just accepts it!!! At least Dick Turpin (English Highwayman/robber) wore a mask when he was out stealing. The governments over here don't even bother with that!!!!!! Anybody wants to move to germany????? bring a bike. regards :cry:
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    thanks for posting one my life-long dreams. I'd like to do a cross US trip in one of these.

    However, my dreams are shattered every month with the arrival of my mortgage statement, plus it's also destroyed daily by the noise of two girls bickering at each other. :cry:

    Can you also post a picture looking in the van from the driver's seat? :D
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That was my plan. I just don't seem to have the time. Taking care of 5 acres of citrus and tropical plants keeps us home more than I like. Here is a shot to the back of the RV. Hope you make it one of these days. It would be about the most economical way to cross the country.

    PS: they girls will be gone before you know it.

    image
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    Rephrased from a competing auto site:

    VWoA has a tease on its coming joint venture with DaimlerChrysler of a modern version of the icon Microbus. It is hinting it will be coming by 2008. The tease is a restored 1964 Microbus carted to various media events and trade shows.

    Man...if it becomes true, hope a TDI version is offered with 40+ mpg. Hope it also would come with an affordable price tag seeing it will be built by Chrysler in NA.

    Gotta hold on to my 2000 MPV for another 3 to 4 years and start putting away some money. ;)
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    more on the vw van.

    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070116/FREE/70115007/1528/L- ATESTNEWS
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    R class is a diesel minivan , isn't it? discuss?
  • yabunyabun Member Posts: 2
    The issue with me is that there are NO reasonable options in the US for a decent diesel minivan. The options are almost as bad as our options for electric cars. People with an interest in diesels either want better efficiency or the option to go biodiesel. Both are admirable reasons. So what to do we have now?
    Dodge Sprinter - this one has been discussed and dismissed for being "fugly". Yeah, kinda. We'd like to take this industrial van and make a family hauler out of it. I could convince my wife to look beyond the "fugly" (especially if it had a Mercedes nameplate on the back instead of Dodge), but it looks like it only has a passenger-side rear sliding door. Compared to the Odyssey's and Siena's, this is a deal breaker. The PHEV/diesel version could trump all that, though.
    The R-class diesel - NICE!! For something that size, I'd like a little better mpg. But it's pricey. I'd have to be pretty well off to be ok putting >B10 in a $44k Benz.
    The Jeep Liberty - wrong category.

    Ideally, I want a Mazda5 diesel or a VW Touran to be sold at dealers in the US. I want 3 rows of seats (with the 3rd row removable/stowable), 2 sliding back doors, good diesel economy (>38mpg) with the Biodiesel option. Why is that so hard. Our options for this in the US are non-existent. That's frustrating and it sucks. Our options for electric cars are non-existent, but that's a story for another town-hall. I don't tow a boat or trailer, I don't go off-road, I'm not a contractor, I don't need or want an SUV but we have a crap load of those.

    ... I can't help but assume a lot of you feel my pain.

    Is it possible to legally import a Mazda5 or Touran from Europe?? Has it been done? Can't be from England, driver's on the wrong side.

    And another 2 cents... other non-van diesel options I'd like in the US are the Dodge Caliber and the SmartCar. Canada has 'em. Thank you.
  • dpughdpugh Member Posts: 14
    I have a 2006 (previous version) Kia Sedona, 2.9ltr Diesel Minivan. I get 32-39 mpg (US)...It runs on Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel which is the standard in Europe and also now available in the US. Since this car comes off the same production line as models destined for the US, there is no reason other than politics to prevent this model from being imported to the US.... I have looked into bringing the vehicle back to the US in two years, however the chances are roughly zero......... oh well.
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    Yabun, I am exactly in the same boat as you. I use to want a Smart back when they were not yet available here in Canada. That was until we had kids.

    Then I thought I wanted Touran for a long time, even signed up an online petition several years ago. I’ve also scoped out a Mazda5 just in case Mazda decides to introduce a diesel version in the future.

    But even at 5’9” thin as a rail asian immigrant, I cannot fit myself in a Mazda5 3rd row seat. Maybe Tourans are packaged better but unless I see one I won’t sign for one anymore (if ever they even become available).

    My point is the primary reason I look into small cars is fuel efficiency, ideally at more than 40mpg combined. Size can be sacrificed and is even somewhat chic. But only if there is:

    1) a corresponding increase in mpg, 2) interior space efficiently utilized to maintain practical use, 3) price is kept reasonably low, 4) safety is not overly compromised.

    When it doesn't there just isn’t any point, specially when we risk the lives and safety of our loved ones.

    Hence I also gave up on the Honda Fit (good space, safety is addressed, ho-hum mpg), and all other tiny cars out there for now.

    My best hope is that car manufacturers finally see the light and start providing diesel engines in the not so large minivans to provide us with the fuel efficiency we want.

    Just in case you haven’t yet, check out the (possible) future 2010 Chrysler minivan with the (possible) 2.2. Benz diesel engine:

    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070205/FREE/70205002/1528

    As for other non minivan tiny cars, its too bad SmartFor4 was pulled out when it would have been the model to pull that brand out of the red.

    Hopefully the Chevy Volt will be built. Yes I also signed the petition for that one here:

    http://www.gm.com/company/gm_exp_live/events/naias_2007/index_flash.html?navID=3- .0.1.1&seo=goo_volt
  • yabunyabun Member Posts: 2
    Sounds like 2009 or 2010 will be the years for real choices. Hmmm... 3 years.

    I agree. 3rd row seats are just a much wanted convenience not really intended for frequent adult use. Most likely only be used by the kids when we have the occasional extra kid, friend, or in-law.

    The Volt came out of no where and the concept is awesome. I followed your link and voted. Not sure it'll do any good, but I voted. The only issue I had when I first saw the Volt is the styling. It looks like a muscle car. It has an efficient drive train, but it looks heavy (like a Dodge Charger). Feels contradictory.
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    the volt panels are made of special plastics, so shouldn't be too heavy thought. But see, cars same as minivans it doesn't matter anymore whether they are huge or small as long as they are efficient fuel wise.

    I have a 13 year old heavy Jetta diesel that still gets 44mpg combined. Not even the new small Yaris and Fit gets that mpg. So size/weight is secondary only to engine efficiency. My ex 2001 Prius got only 5mpg better and was too complex and costly to fix.

    I would get a Volt primarily for efficiency, secondarily for lesser maintenance, and lastly for smaller carbon footprint.

    Back on topic, it is too bad VW's new CEO just pulled out the plug on a planned mild hybrid Touran for 2008.

    Think of it, why would VW build a hybrid Touran when a TDI would be cheaper and readily available in Europe?

    My suspicion is it was supposed to be targetted for North America.

    Still a 2010 Chrysler Minivan with a 2.2 Benz diesel, rotating middle seats, and removable table would be something to look forward to.
  • josephmechjosephmech Member Posts: 2
    What VW should have done is put the TDI in the eurovan with a manual tranny. Also we need a small TDI engine 1 liter size that gets 75 mpg estimated by me. The problem in america is that car drivers dont want to work to drive they just want an automatic and be lazy fat slobs. Right now I have a Toyota Previa 1995 & Chevy Cavalier 2000 The water pump on the cavalier is put on with a cheap thin gasket. The toyota uses o-rings. Which do you think is the better seal . Gas is 2.77 per gallon 87 octane cost $44.50 to fill up my van 2 days ago. I want to get a VW TDI diesel and wish my Previa van was Diesel and manual. I drove a beater 300D 1985 Mercedes diesel that was an awsome engine sounded like a hot rod. Well eventually I will replace all my cars with Diesel=economy+reliability. :shades:
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    quote:

    "There've been rumors that VWAG might kill another vehicle on its production plans - an all-new, American-style minivan. There are all sorts of reasons why the project should be in jeopardy, conceded Hallmark. For one thing, it is being developed in a joint venture with Chrysler, the U.S. marque that parent DaimlerChrysler is likely to sell off."

    "Then there's the fact that the minivan was conceived by ousted VWAG brand boss Wolfgang Bernhard. But after looking long and hard at the project, corporate officials realized it was too good a product to abandon, whoever got credit. It will reach showrooms late next year, about twelve months after Chrysler launches its own, next-generation minivan."

    link
  • lizziewriterlizziewriter Member Posts: 9
    Hi all... found this board and read some but have to get back to work. We have a diesel pickup truck but that's all so far. I had to replace my front wheel drive Astro van last year, a bit suddenly, and got the Chevy Uplander. I am not happy with it but there just wasn't much out there (full disclosure: hubby wants GM). Even would he relent... the US is just not cooperating with itself to allow a good market for such a useful vehicle as a roomy diesel minivan with reasonable power. And it's not like it can't be done. I look forward to catching up on this forum and learning what's on the horizon.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Odyssey diesel minivan by 2009 at the latest. start workin' on him. :)
  • lizziewriterlizziewriter Member Posts: 9
    Thanks for the link on the Volt. I was starting to think that GM was completely out of the running, which would be bad news for me. The Volt is just a wee little thing, but it is a start. Now, why can't they put a mini Duramax diesel on the S10 platform? The S10 proved its likeability years ago, and many people were sad to see it go... my Astro was on that platform too. If the Duramax can get 24 mpg as a big old crewcab truck, they should be able to make one in the family size, with an eye towards a flexfuel future. I'm not so sure about electric... I'm nervous of anything that plugs in, because that feeds the whole coal-power-plant idiocy that we also have in this country. Doesn't it? :confuse:
  • lizziewriterlizziewriter Member Posts: 9
    Don't even get me started about the lack of stick-shift cars in this country! :mad:
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Stick shift diesel minivan - yessssss!
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    Hi lizziewriter, sorry but this board kind of moves really s-l-o-w just like diesel minivan news, which comes just way too far in between.

    I don’t normally come here that often anymore.

    Not sure what’s the latest on Honda’s plan to offer diesel in light SUV’s (possibly includes the Ody. Anybody care to share info?).

    The Koreans are also thinking of doing same – offering diesels on light SUV’s, so who knows we might have a Kia diesel also.

    The bad news is Daimler dumped Chrysler, so that probably eliminates the 2010 Chrysler with nice rotating chairs nada.

    So only a Chrysler based VW diesel seems definite right now. The good news is VW’s diesel engines have gained/regained the efficiency they lost sometime after 2003. Who knows they might even give us a manual, after all what good is a diesel if an auto tranny simple saps it down to a gassers level? So, one of those omniscient pre-selective double clutch thingy would be waaaaayyyy nice VWAG(…..pweeease?). And since it’s N.A. built, keep the price competitive too, double pweease?

    On the tiny cars, there’s lots of promise. From Mazda2’s to Honda hybrid that’s tinier than the Fit, future Mini’s with hopefully diesel that gets 60mpg (there’s increasing clamor to bring that to the U.S. now).

    Toyota is also thinking of making a smaller version of the Toyota Prius (bad news from Toyota is they are not going to use Li-Ion batteries for the next version).

    Still a Volt (with diesel engine pweaase) would be the best. So much less moving parts means long term reliability. This is when car brand will no longer be a reliability indicator. Then only price matters.

    Since north American built will mean cheaper parts, I relish the thought that this will be when American cars kicks butt…..ta da, Empire Strikes Back!

    Btw, it’s probably easier to regulate/improve pollution per power plant than per millions of individual cars out there. Whether its carbon capture and storage, or molecular/chemical breakdown to different useful forms, or whatever, power plants would be the best place to catch them.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, if you're unhappy about having a gas engine, this might make you feel a little better.

    I just applied for one of those Shell gas cards, and in reading the fine print I found out you can't get the 5% rebate for diesel purchases.

    Prices fluctuate, sure, but right now, around me, diesel costs about the same as regular gas, both around $3 per gallon.

    The card's 5% rebate makes gas $2.85, diesel still $3.

    That might ease the wait a little bit. ;)
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