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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Diesels

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Comments

  • texsmetztexsmetz Member Posts: 2
    In ref to:My 05 E320 CDI has been in the shop 5 times since purchasing in May 2005. The main problem is sudden loss of power when stepping on the accelerator. It typically happens after I have been driving for 5 or 10 minutes. The car will be performing normally and then I step on the accelerator and the car accelerates very slowly (0 to 60 mph in about 20 seconds). If a stop the car, turn off and restart the problem self corrects. In addition, my battery intermittently loses it's charge and requires a jump start, even if I used the car 24 hours prior. My dealer says they have never encountered these problems. Last time in shop (5 days) they replaced a sensor related to the battery. The next morning the battery was dead. I love the car when it's working properly, but I think this one may be a lemon. Help!
    I had a similar problem. It was the EGR valve. Otherwise my CDI has been great.
  • fenris2fenris2 Member Posts: 31
    Well, I would suggest google as your friend. A quick search on 'mercedes 320 cdi chips' should turn up some links for you, it did for me.

    As someone investigating a diesel myself. I would suggest an EGT (exhaust gass tempature) gauge (if on is not present) as well as looking for the whole package, versus a cheap fix. By that I mean something that not only increases fuel flow but also air flow as well.

    Some chips are just expanding the time the injectors dump fuel in and not increasing air flow to match (you will get black smoke - which is un burned diesel fuel out the exhaust) and I believe this aproach also raises tempature more (a bad thing) although I am not 100% sure on the latter. Other chips are more holistic in their approach.

    IMHO chips alone are probably okay for small gains, but I would be wary of more than 10%-15%. Problems? For example if more fuel is required, and your fuel pump ends up running at too low of presure then what? Was it worth a couple thousand to fix all the pumps and maybe the injectors?

    If it were me, and I wanted more than 10% or so... I would look for something that had better air flow, bigger injectors, a chip to go with it and was under the fuel pump limit and so on. Maybe have something with built in safety monitoring that would cut back if temp got too high despite all that - for example? Of course once you start adding power, then how about tranny and so forth right?

    Also AFAIK any part you mod is out of warranty at the companies descretion. Anything that change breaks is also out of warranty as well. So, I would suggest doing something your dealer will support, as fighting both of them if something goes boom is not going to be fun.

    Anyway YMMV, good luck.
  • blissfulblissful Member Posts: 84
    Now THAT would indeed be a wonderful car: E420CDI 4matic wagon. What else could one ask for???? I hope they do- but I suspect it will be 5-10 years before stodgy old MBUSA pulls that sort of vehicle together for our marketplace. Oh for the good old days of greymarket imports! (I just sold my 2000 A6 wagon last week... my cdi arrives in December/Jan) :)

    Please keep me/us posted if you get any chip info- sounds intriguing. Although, from the few cdis I've test driven, the car has plenty of power at all RPM.
  • ottovondieselottovondiesel Member Posts: 4
    Captainjoe: Any luck getting those problems fixed on your CDI? If not, maybe you should consider having her towed down to the VW dealer. Maybe they'll take her in on a trade. I hope they don't get a whiff of that :lemon:.

    I hear those Jetta TDIs are sweet rides, and they don't cost an arm and a leg either. I know of a dealer in Gilford, N.H., expecting a silver TDI with 6-speed automatic in late December.
  • cctdicctdi Member Posts: 82
    Thank you so much for your imputs which are in such kindly detail lines. I surely will talk to the dealer service adviser first before I do anything about chipping the CDI. You are such a good man indeed!
  • captainjoecaptainjoe Member Posts: 7
    Texsmetz: Thank you for the reply. I will look into it. The Car has recently returned from shop a 6th time. They replaced the battery and ran entire systems check. I don't know about the EGR valve. I will discuss with my service manager ( eventhough my dealer service department is composed of mechanical morons). :lemon:
  • blissfulblissful Member Posts: 84
    Yeah? Well, unless I'm mistaken you won't be seeing that Jetta TDI for such a great price. I"ve looked into them as a 2nd car and because they are so hard to come by they also are over MSRP, if you can find one. Used ones are selling for near new price also in the NW. Of course, even at that, they are much less $$ than a CDI, but c'mon- nowhere near the car!
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    I would suggest that going to VW because you don't trust MB quality would be going from the frying pan and into the fire...
  • mitchcmitchc Member Posts: 39
    Cool Pix!
  • rbarkleyrbarkley Member Posts: 14
    I just drove by a gas station tonight and noticed thart diesel was $1.30 more than gas. I've heard that we shouldn't expect the price to drop any time soon. I put on over 40,000 miles a year and figured I could save $200 per month by going with a CDI. Well if I have to pay $1.30 more than gas instead of saving $200 a month I'll be spending $140 more a month. I wouldn't feel so bad if everyone was in the same boat.

    I've heard the world demand for diesel is up... does that mean we can expect to pay alot more for diesel from now on? I don't remember price hikes like this last winter when the refineres were making heating oil. Why is this year different, and why the big price difference?

    I am considering going back to gas but now it might be difficult to sell the CDI without losing alot of money. I was at my Mercedes dealer today and they told me they are starting to discount the new 06 CDI to get rid of them. My timing seems to be off, I hope this is only temporary. I like the CDI but I'd like it more if diesel was more in line with gas.
  • blissfulblissful Member Posts: 84
    Don't panic. Remember, the mileage is 25%- 30% better with diesel, and most luxury cars are premium gasoline- then the price is only a 50-60 cents more. Here in Portland, OR the price of diesel yesterday was $3.09 at one station and 3.19 at another. Premium is down to $2.57-2.67. I think diesel prices will come down Sounds like $1.30 higher is an anomaly which will probably settle soon enough.
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    Demand for gas is apparently fairly elastic. That is, when price goes up, demand goes down. That helps bring the price back down. After the price shocks from Katrina and Rita, demand for gasoline took a big drop. Lots of folks drove less, drove more slowly, left the SUV in the driveway and drove their sedan instead.

    However, most diesel is used by folks who have to drive -- trucking companies can't decide to drive less. Also, this is harvest time in the midwest. The farmer can't decide not to run his combine...
  • cctdicctdi Member Posts: 82
    The diesel price here in South Jersey currently is $2.61 in average verse the premium $2.35 in my neighborhood. The price should come down after April. Here in USA (only USA) the diesel is taxed more, for the truckers to pass the tax to the consumers. The off-road diesel and heating oil are the same stuff as the regular diesel which is colorized with the pigments with all most the half the regular diesel price. You can get the off road diesel with the container, but not legal to power on road vehicles!
  • blissfulblissful Member Posts: 84
    Having some problems with the forum format: the text is now running beyond the screen width on my computer and I have to use the bottom scroll bar back and forth to read the messages posted (cumbersome for me!) Also, at the top of the page, I'm noticing the advertising is showing up ON TOP of the member commentary. Did someone change something recently? Or (entirely possible) I don't have my settings right on the page? Can you help with this?
    thanks!
    Still...
    blissful
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    The problem was the picture that was posted several messages back. The width of the picture caused what you were seeing. You should be fine now - click on the Recent Msgs link to be sure.
  • sekinneysekinney Member Posts: 2
    I have a 2005 CDI just 1 year old, 21k miles on it. I've had similar issues. After about 5-6 months, the car would occasionally cough and stall, or cough then run, after a "nearly cold" start. Sunday morning after a 3-minute drive for coffee was typical--car was not fully warmed up. My dealer tech had just gone through training and immediately suggested the EGR valve was to blame. He never got any computer error codes for the EGR, but ordered the part based on symptoms.

    A couple days before the scheduled EGR replacement, I had a spell like you describe. I was coasting off a highway off ramp, asked for power, got none, and suspected I'd run out of fuel. Acceleration was limited and engine noise was distinctly louder. I drove straight to the dealer, left it running, and had the technician drive a couple miles with me. The computer did show an EGR error code that day (dumb programmers don't timestamp the error codes, so it's not clear when it happened.) After I left it, they found that stopping it and restarting it restored power.

    They told me this was the computer putting the car in "Limp Home Mode." Limp Home Mode is when the computer gets some error code that leads it to believe continued use of full power might damage the engine, so it restricts output to half throttle and transmission to lower gears. If you google Limp Home Mode, you'll find postings on other forums.

    With the EGR valve replaced, car is back to its delightful self. If you've had no success, push the dealer or MB to guide to you a senior service tech with the most current training on this engine.
  • jimbo1mcmjimbo1mcm Member Posts: 1
    Thanks for the detailed info on your car. It could help a lot of people.
  • cctdicctdi Member Posts: 82
    I had a talk with the MB headquarter this morning, asking them the possiblity of the E-Class CDI in 4matic form for 07; the bad news is there won't be any, the bad news leads to other info- the 07 M-Class equipped with diesel is coming in 06! What is the replacement of the CDI? There is no answer for that. If the 4.2 V8 CDI would be installed in the M, that is still the good news! Hear us! You MBOA.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I had a talk with the MB headquarter this morning, asking them the possiblity of the E-Class CDI in 4matic form for 07; the bad news is there won't be any, the bad news leads to other info- the 07 M-Class equipped with diesel is coming in 06!

    I'm surprised at this since the E320 CDI 4Matic is and will be just like any other "V6" E-Class because of the "V6" engine design being compatible with the 4Matic hardware. MBUSA would be dumb not to bring over that combination in both the sedan and a wagon too imo. I suspect there will be a R320 CDI sometime next year too.

    M
  • blissfulblissful Member Posts: 84
    They're going to have to do something to convert people to the V6 idea... the 4matic-CDI combo would sure be a good way to win some die-hard I-6'ers over! [IMHO]
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    They're going to have to do something to convert people to the V6 idea... the 4matic-CDI combo would sure be a good way to win some die-hard I-6'ers over! [IMHO]

    Very true, very true.

    M
  • rbarkleyrbarkley Member Posts: 14
    I was told that my in-dash CD player will play a CD made up with mp3's. I have called the MB 800 number and thay said it should, but I've tried three different CD's with MP3 files and the CD changer will not read them. Does anyone know what the problem is?

    Mp3 Cd will hold about 10 hours of music without a loss of music quality.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Make sure you use CDR and not CDRW. Many MP3 units will not read re-writable disks. The better the quality CDR Blank the better the chance of good music quality.
  • rbarkleyrbarkley Member Posts: 14
    Thanks for your advice, i am using good quality CDR's
  • farbs1farbs1 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2005 cdi and have the same problem when making a right turn. When slowing at a freeway exit and when taking off from a dead stop, but always on a right turn. Have the same results with the "Limp Home Mode" restart and its fine. EGR or transmission?
  • blissfulblissful Member Posts: 84
    Just a thought: EGR is likely under this scenario: right hand turn could be a red herring (how many times does one exit off the freeway to the left?). It may be more a function of operating at freeway speed and then sudden deceleration causing a shift in emission function and resultant hiccup to the system.
    I have no real basis for saying this except to suggest the right hand turn may be less significant unless you are also noticing it with city stop 'n' go driving.

    Is it only balking after freeway speeds? If so, I'd go with the earlier suggestion of EGR. Less expensive and easier to try than transmission.
  • cctdicctdi Member Posts: 82
    I was quite amazed as I was driving the CDI on the snow covered road today. This car gripped the surface in a very good manner. I drove first the Highlander Hybrid 4wd-I, then I thought I should see how the CDI rwd behaviors on the snow; the car has no problem for 45 minutes commute on a few inches snow day!
  • blissfulblissful Member Posts: 84
    What is the engine break in protocol for the cdi? My new car will be here imminently :D and I am wondering how to drive it for the first X,000 miles? Any input? Any recommended websites or references for new diesel engine driving style?
    Thanks!
  • cctdicctdi Member Posts: 82
    According to owner manual, for the first 1000 miles, try to use the C (comfort) mode on the gear with mild driving style (just like any car) and no tow. The CDI in E320 is an amazing powerful smooth engine; it drives and feels like the gas engines in 50k up luxury cars except the diesel takes easy way with its high torque in low end. The best thing to me is much less going to filling up the car, and the little draw back for some regions may be driving 10 – 15 more minutes to find the station with Diesel Island. I was really impressed by the TDI engines from VW, especially the Touareg V10, yet the MB CDI seems more refined; in the cold morning start, the TDI V10 and 2.L in Passat produce more green smoke than the CDI, in fact, you can hardly detect the smoke from the E, as they said, this is not your father’s old MB diesel!
  • blissfulblissful Member Posts: 84
    Thanks so much for the suggestion/info. I have been studying the manual!! Car arrived on 28th- Have already been scoping out the various diesel locations, but it will be a while before I get through the first tank of fuel! It is indeed a smooth ride- and much much quieter than the 06 Jetta tdi we have. (Although I admit I would have been sad if the Jetta tdi held a candle to the MB!)

    Cheers,
    and Happy New Year! :D
  • sfeldmansfeldman Member Posts: 4
    My 320 CDI is over 1 year now and it is still the best car I ever had. The refinement in this vehicle is excellent and all systems are etremely well synchronized with each other. This car is a benchmark for all cars in this price range, especially when it comes to mechanical and systems engineering.
  • cctdicctdi Member Posts: 82
    I am glad you got the same feeling as I do toward the E320 CDI, a really good car indeed. I am just a diesel nut, I just don’t know what I would react if the E400 or E420 CDI do come to this shore in the near future. According to the EPA, by June 1st most of the US highways’ gas stations will have the ULSD available and by Oct. 15th all nationwide! With the HP at 300 and over 520 ft of torque out there, dear E320 owners, how would you not scratch your heads? And take a look the excerpt I got from the Diesel Tec. Forum:
    Diesels for Sale in the U.S.
    The following cars, pickups and SUVs are currently sold throughout the United States with diesel-powered engines.
    • Audi Q7 Diesel SUV (Coming in 2007)
    • Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD and 3500 trucks
    • Chevrolet Express
    • Dodge Ram 2500 and 3500 trucks
    • Dodge Ram Hybrid (Coming in 2006)
    • Dodge Sprinter passenger vans
    • Ford F-250 and F-350 trucks
    • GMC Sierra 2500 HD
    • GMC Sierra 3500
    • GMC Savana G2500
    • GMC Savana G3500
    • H1 Alpha
    • Hummer H1
    • Jeep Liberty CRD
    • Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI
    • Mercedes-Benz C-Class diesel sedan (Coming Soon)
    • Mercedes-Benz ML350 (Coming in 2006)
    • Mercedes-Benz ML500 (Coming in 2006)
    • Volkswagen Beetle, Golf and Jetta

    • Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI
    3,222-CC turbocharged 24-valve inline-6 27/37 mph 201 @ 4,200 RPM 369 lb-ft @ 1800 – 2600 RPM
    Mercedes-Benz C-Class diesel sedan (Coming Soon) V-6 diesel engine N/A 224 376 lb-ft @ 1600-2800 RPM
    Mercedes-Benz ML350 (Coming in 2006) 3.7-liter V-6 N/A 245
    Mercedes-Benz ML500 (Coming in 2006) V-8 N/A 292
    Volkswagen Beetle
    1.9 Liter I-4 Turbo-charged Diesel - Automatic 36/42 mph 100 177 lb.-ft
    1.9 Liter I-4 Turbo-charged Diesel - Manual 38/46 mph 100 177 lb.-ft
    Volkswagen Golf
    1.9 Liter I-4 Turbo-charged Diesel - Automatic 33/44 mph 100 177 lb.-ft
    1.9 Liter I-4 Turbo-charged Diesel - Manual 38/46 100 177 lb.-ft
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I think we're going to get a R320 CDI also.

    Sort of confused on some of those listings. The engines you give for the ML350 is the previous generation 3-valve V6 and the ML500 has been upped to 302hp. Soon though the ML500 will change to the ML550 with the new 5.5L DOHC 32V V8. All of these are "petrol" engins though.

    M
  • cctdicctdi Member Posts: 82
    The 3.7L V6 and unknown displacement V8 are the diesel engines. If there is a V6 diesel for C-Class, two for ML-Class, I don't think E-Class will miss the boat with option of the V8.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    The only two V6 diesels Mercedes has are the new 3.0L V6 and outgoing 3.2L I6. The 3.7L V6 in the old ML350 was a variation of the old 3.2L 3-Valve gasoline V6. The new diesel V8 is a 4.0L.

    V8 CDI Engine

    New V6 CDI Engine

    It would be nice, but I doubt we'll see the V8 CDI here in anything other than maybe a 2008 model S-Class.

    M
  • blissfulblissful Member Posts: 84
    Interesting indeed to consider higher output diesel engines in the E and R class. HOWEVER, I think it would be MORE appropriate for MBZ to first begin importing the C class diesels thus making them accessible to more of the American population, and perhaps driving further awareness of improved quietness and driveability of the new diesel engines.

    I do love my '06 320 CDI!! :D
  • loyalownerloyalowner Member Posts: 8
    I, too, enjoy my '05 E320CDI very much. Probably it is the best car I have ever owned as well but I am spoiled as this is my 6th MB!

    All this talk about bringing different diesel models into the US is interesting, if not confusing. To the best of my knowledge all MB diesels to date in the US have been in-line configurations of 4-, 5-, or 6-cylinders. Do they have a "V" configuration for the European market? I would be concerned about NVH (Noise, Vibration, Harshness) problems with a "V" as well - particularly a "6" as it is inherently an "unbalanced" configuration. The additional cost & complexity of internal balance shafts would likely be necessary. Europe isn't as "horsepower crazy" as we are here in the US so I can't imagine they have more powerful engines then what they're sending us already. And besides, while people ask for (and brag about) horsepower what they are really looking for in an engine is torque and the current E320CDI engine has it in spades!!!!

    It's an interesting marketing challenge with where to go next with a diesel engine. The C-Class market segment is very price competitve so they may have to remove some vehicle content (power accessories, stereo features, etc.) to maintain the price. The S-Class I think is a better next step. In the past they have tried a 6-cylinder "S" to get the price down & fuel economy up but performance has suffered too much to make the vehicle attractive in the marketplace. The diesel option may be the solution.

    As much as I would like to see a diesel M-Class (I also own an '02 ML500 so I know firsthand how fuel-thirsty they are!) I think there are too many Engineering hurdles to overcome. The present 4-Matic hardware probably dictates a "V" configuration engine but the "Diesel 4-Matic" market is probably too small to justify the cost to re-design the diesel engine to a "V" configuration or to re-design the 4-Matic hardware to accept an "in-line" engine. Maybe the new GL-Class is a possibility.

    I am interested to here the thoughts of other owners.

    Loyal Owner
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    The new diesel 6 is a v-engine--we will be getting that.

    dave
  • cctdicctdi Member Posts: 82
    Honestly, I am very satisfied with the current E320 CDI, except the uncontrollable defrost hot air on auto front defrost mode, I can’t find a thing that I don’t like this car; I will ask the service in M B to look into that glitch. In the meantime, I still somewhat miss the Tourareg V10 TDI which I brought back to VW for a trade for the problems plagued on the car. On the other hand, the ML diesel has been selling side by side with gas engines by MB for years to the oversea markets, and MB has the tendency to put high HP in ML-Class(I got an 02 ML55). A V8 diesel seems convenient and logical to be installed in the coming ML. A cute 3.5 Rav 4 is here with same out put as the ML350. If give me the choice…… maybe just the diesel would turn me away from Toyota!

    http://autoblog.com/2006/01/08/detroit-auto-show-mercedes-benz-launches-clean-di- esels-for-the/
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Mercedes has solved the problems with trying to fit 4Matic with a diesel by adopting the V convfiguration. The new 3.0L V6 CDI engine is actually a little more powerful than the current I6. The new V6 will be fitted to the 2007 E320/R320/ML320 and eventually GL320 starting this fall.

    There is also a new (well revised) V8 CDI in Europe also. It is a 4.0L with 311hp. The only way I can see the U.S. getting this engine in the S-Class (S420 CDI) or possibly a GL420 CDI.

    E320 CDI V6 Durability Testing - Article

    New V6 CDI engine in detail - Article

    New V8 CDI engine in detail - Article

    M
  • blissfulblissful Member Posts: 84
    I heard that they were bringing the V6 in the '07 model, so I hustled up and bought an '06 with the tried and trusty I-6 that MB is so well known for. Personally, I don't need a lot of HP (as you so rightly pointed out, torque is where the neck-snapping feeling of power comes from with acceleration in these splendid cars!)

    I would be surprised if a lot of diesel 4matics sell, butas I think more about it, I would have considered the 4matic in diesel had it been available. May be a great seller in the NE and NW US.
  • loyalownerloyalowner Member Posts: 8
    Your car is working as it was designed. The defrost "hot air/high fan" has been that way on all 6 MBs I have had the privilege to own. It's very frustrating to have to keep flipping back & forth between "Defrost" and "Auto" when all you really need is to have a little bit of airflow going past the windshield to keep it from fogging up.

    Loyal Owner
  • loyalownerloyalowner Member Posts: 8
    M -

    You are obviously much better informed than I am regarding MB products. Thank you for setting the record straight. Looks like there could be several diesel models to choose from in the future when I have to replace either my '02 ML500 or '05 E320 CDI. It's nice to have choices!

    Loyal Owner
  • cctdicctdi Member Posts: 82
    Thanks, I learned to hit the aircon button when the windshield fogged up. I use your way and it works well too. Thanks!
  • cctdicctdi Member Posts: 82
    By now, it is clear that the new V6 MB diesel for E320 and a few other models are sure things for 2007. The question in my mind is the V6 with 2987-cc in displacement still named 320, by fact, it is just about 3.L, shouldn’t be named E300? On the contrary the inline 6 has the displacement of 3222-cc to be justified 3.2 for E320. Can anybody see the scenario differently? I don’t see any incentive for me to be interest in the 07 models unless the 3996-cc V8 is the option for the new models.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    This article mentions that the S-Class diesel will be a S320 V6 model not a S420 V8.

    Here

    They also mention the R320, GL320 and ML320. Of course the E320 is a given.

    M
  • cctdicctdi Member Posts: 82
    Date Posted
    11/17/2005 Worst Car ever by MIke M
    Style: E320 CDI 4dr Sedan (3.2L 6cyl Turbodiesel 5A) Rating


    4.3

    Review: This is the worst car I have ever had and the dealership has not helped me one bit. Problems I have had are as follows: Brakes, Transmission, Air Conditioning. 3 times I was driving the car it actually just turned off while I was on the highway. Bottom line this car stinks.
    Favorite Features: 4 matic
    Suggested Improvements: Get rid of this whole series of cars and start from scratch.
    4 of 10 People found this review helpful.


    I couldn’t believe my eyes as I was reading the post on Edmund’s E320 CDI rating. How in the world people could fool the other people by just lying something or anything just like the most politicians (even to the highest one). Is a 4matic installed in any E320 CDI so far? I wouldn’t miss the chance to buy such a car, especially in a wagon form! Does anybody out there know this person’s short statement in his rating? According to his favorite features: 4 matic, so how he got an E320 CDI equipped such feature? There are good, bad and ugly people out there!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I saw that and attributed it to a diesel hater. I also questioned the 4matic statement. It would be difficult for Edmund's to police everyone that reviews a car. I would love to have an E320 CDI wagon also. I am watching for the R series with the 320 CDI engine. If I could get the looks past my wife we may buy one.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    You might want to click on the link below the review to report it. That will get some attention and if the folks agree - as I do - that that review is not really a "review" at all, something will be done about it.

    Let us know what happens.
  • ohalrightthenohalrightthen Member Posts: 1
    Had a similar problem, turned out to be the Inlet manifold port shut off motor--hope this helps
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