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Just another SMART idea...
But this is a feature that other similar modern cars have, like the Accord (at least the EX has it).
Another neat feature is when you use your turn signal, after completing your turn and the steering wheel retreat, you'll notice the turn signal light will stay on for the normal duration even if the signal switch retreat in the middle of light being on.
If the only Intermittent Wiper setting, #1 position with the variable knob setting wasn't vehicle speed controlled, how would the Wipers know when to slow down when you slow down to a stop?. Some high end cars can sense actual rain. Although we have ESC, those cars are equipped with ESP, Extra Sensory Perception :P
Im glad I did not get the 2007 Toyota Camry CE for the same price with no keyless entry or alloy wheels and no ESC, even though the Camry may have more resale value, V6 for the same price, my opinion is why the pay same and get less.
And why in the world would you pay the sticker price (and on an '06???????) ? Do you want your dealer to be so very happy?
...Or am I missing something here? Please help me here.
But at least flc2006 didn't buy that stupid Camry, to his credit.
Of course I agree with most of your post as well!. Could you tell us how your research led to the TRUE Dealer cost though. :confuse:
Yes, you are correct that invoice does not include holdback and factory to dealer incentives and at some delalerships includes and adversing fee (which I think is bogus or at least something the consumer should not pay).
The dealer does have to make a profit, other wise he won't be in busines what you need him again. I expect the dealer to make money when he sells me a car, I just don't want him paying for his kid's college based on selling me a car.
It is unfortunate, but many people go in to buy a car without having any clue how much it should cost...they just want to know "how much is it going to be every month." A dealer loves those kinds of customers!
I started my research by paying the $12 or so for the vehicle specific report on www.consumerreports.org. They break down the numbers which can change almost monthly which include various manufacturer to dealer incentives. Next, I completely read http://www.carbuyingtips.com which I found to be very useful. They even give downloads of Excel worksheets in order to compare several deals you are contemplating. I then went to http://www.car-prices-costs.com/dealer-cost.html in order to figure out the Hyundai-specific dealer holdback percentage. After getting some of the numbers I went to www.carsdirect.com for comparision purposes as a starting haggle point for my local dealers. After receiving several quotes in writing from dealerships, all via fax or email, I then negotiated with my select dealer until the deal was complete. I also found it important to ensure all cash rebates were applicable AFTER the deal was done...not as part of the haggled price!
There are a lot of informative automotive websites I visited in addition to the above stated, but it has been over a year so I cannot remember them all.
You are promoting a misconception. The price of a car is more driven by the market than what the dealer paid for it. Try buying a Prius for 5% over the TRUE dealer price. If I have a hot car with a waiting list of people willing to pay sticker plus why should I sell it for 5% over my real cost?
True some cars you can get it that low, others you cannot.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
What is fair is what the market will allow. If the market allows a dealer to make only 5% thats fair, if its 10% thats fair, if its 50% thats fair, if they lose 10% that too is fair.
Basically whatever they can make on a free market is fair (provided they do nothing that is immoral [very subjective] or illegal).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
What else? I don't notice very many 4 cylinder automatics on Sonata, but I do notice quite a bit of 4 cylinder Optimas.
Thanks
One big difference between Optima and Sonata is that ABS/traction and ESC are standard on all trim lines on the Sonata, while they are not available on the Optima LX and optional ($1095 total) on the EX. The Optima has a few features or options not available on the Sonata such as leather, alloys, and telescopic wheel with the I4. Maybe that is one reason you see more I4 Optimas than I4 Sonatas, but probably more because the V6 in the Optima has 49 fewer horses than the V6 in the Sonata; the V6 in the Optima has only 23 more horses than the I4.
The Good:
- The most comfortable seats in its class with ample room for broad shoulders. Much better than my wife's '06 Malibu (company car).
- 26.8 MPG combined. I haven't reset the trip computer for 2 months. Two-thirds wide open hwy (65 to 85), one-third city streets.
- The V6 is great!!! Plenty of power/fun to drive.
- Cut a sidewall on a Michelin at 5k miles. Went to Discount Tire, the manager called Michelin, and they authorized a 70% price cut. Hooray!!!
- Absolutely the quietest car I've ever owned. Very minimal road noise.
- Invest the $55 and put on a set of the OEM mudguards. You don't even notice them and they REALLY keep the road grime off the paint.
- "Thanks, but it's not an Accord". I do get frequent comments about the styling.
- Stock CD stereo sounds fairly good - Love the MP3 capability.
- Large trunk. Or in my son's words, "You could get 4 or 5 bodies in there".
- No complaints from occasional back seat riders about legroom.
- Drove the Accord, Camrey, Altima, Mazda 6, and Corolla before buying the Sonata - I still swear it's wider and roomier than all of them.
- A "true" tilt wheel, Not that up/down wannabee found on all the others mentioned above.
The Bad (OK, not really bad, but...) :
- Hyundai paint (I've got the triple-coat pearl) is not as durable or thick as most. Every rock chip goes right thru to the metal.
- The shifting on the 5-speed auto can be erratic. The service manager at the dealer told me there was talk of "re-chipping" the electronic shift.
- The stereo controls on the steering wheel are very minimal. there's no on/off, channel select, or CD track selector.
- Silly cartridge type oil filter similar to Mazda.
- No rear spoiler available as an option. The Sonata's rear styling literally BEGS for one (check out the next Accord you pass).
- At 125 mph (the middle of nowhere in SE Idaho), it does get a little "light on its feet". I don't make a habit of driving at those speeds. One-time deal - I could resist.
The Ugly (and it was mostly my fault):
- Be careful with the electronic shift. I was driving along one morning and had to hit the brakes hard to avoid the "navigationally challenged" individual in the next lane. An entire cup of coffee went from the cupholder to the shifter opening. I pulled over to clean up the mess and when I re-started, the transmission would only operate in 1st and 2nd gears - changing between the two every 4 or 5 seconds. I limped the 10 mile home and called the Hyundai Nat'l Service number. After a brief explanation he asked, "Cream and sugar?". I said "No", and he told me that I'd be OK, just let everything dry ouy. I opened the windows, pointed a fan into the car for 18-20 hours, and everything was good to go. Not until AFTER this little experience did I notice the flip-down spacer for smaller cups. Lesson learned... again.
Final Thoughts:
- Every time I come home from a trip (usually involving rental cars) I appreciate this car even more.
- Glad I didn't get the sunroof - a way overpriced option.
- Where can I find a Spoiler!?!?!?
Just My Humble Opinion...
its only $995 also buy the quad exhaust
http://www.importshark.com/ProductImages/BodyKits/Sonata/Studie.html
Car dealers need to make a living and some like to indulge in a few extravagances too. Don't begrudge them a few full price deals.
MSRP for a new Sonata is a fair deal. I say everyone should be so fortunate as to be able to walk in a pay full MSRP without straining their budget.
And besides, if more people pay full boat, then the dealer can more easily afford to sell me a new one every once in a while for less than 60% of MSRP.
So, congrats flc on your new car purchase! I'm sure you'll enjoy it. It's a great car, whether it is an '06 or '07.
"And besides, if more people pay full boat, then the dealer can more easily afford to sell me a new one every once in a while for less than 60% of MSRP".
I like the way you think Joe!
If more people are willing to pay MSRP then the dealer would be a fool to sell it to you for 60% of MSRP.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
--You actually had a very good point, snake. Why would the dealer be so stupid as to sell the next Sonata to Joe for a PENNY less than the full MSRP, if he can sell it for the full price to anybody else?
See, Joe, being SELFISH is not always SMART. You should follow Jesus' teachings: "Love thy neighbor. Drive your dealer nuts."
Regarding the spoiler you can find plenty of them on Ebay or just do a google search and a lot of regular places sell them too. Some come painted to match your car and others come ready to paint. In addition, some have LED brake lights built into them and others are just plain.
There could be many reasons.
Maybe the dealer wants to sell a car before that 1 person in a 100 who will pay full MSRP wanders into his showroom? Or, maybe the dealer needs to sell one more car to meet some quota? Or, maybe because the dealer needs to dump a particular car which is about to become one with too much carrying cost?
If dealers waited to sell to only those who would pay full MSRP then they could get rid of most of their inventory and staff, because they would not be selling many cars.
In other words if there are enough people willing to pay a certain amount then there is no real incentive for a dealership to sell below that amount. Just because one or two people pay far more than that amount doesn't mean that the dealer is going to reduce their price.
In reality the instances that the dealer has one ore car to sell before hitting quota (or some other number) is a long shot. You have to have perfect timing, say s/he has week to sell that one car good luck in getting that low price.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Actually the "projectile" that is lifted up from the tire of the car in front of you travels very slowly and doesn't go to far. It is your car approaching that "projectile" that has great speed and travels a great distance in the time that "projectile" is airborne.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
In other words, there are not enough people willing to pay MSRP or any other certain amount you may refer to, in part because that amount is very uncertain, changing from day to day, and not even the same at different dealerships on the same day. Similar cars sell for widely varying amounts for many reasons, not just because one or two people pay more than MSRP.
In reality, There are a lot more cars than there are buyers willing to pay MSRP. That is the main reason manufacturers and dealers discount from MSRP.
What I said before was that I'd like it if everyone could pay full MSRP without straining their budgets. That's a big if, and not likely to happen.
No they are not, but they are paying a certain price for the car. The point is if there is a study stream of customers willing to pay at least that price (and there is) then their is little incentive for a dealer to accept a significantly lower price.
In other words if I have a study stream of people paying Invoice plus $500 plus maybe an additional amount why should I accept your offer at invoice less $100?
Similar cars sell for widely varying amounts for many reasons,
Granted but there is a bare minimum that a dealer will accept, that is usually based on what the market will allow. That means if there are enough people paying at least a certain price there is no incentive to accept lower from the occasional person who might offer it.
Remember that a business is not in business to make a reasonable profit but to make the maximum profit.
What I said before was that I'd like it if everyone could pay full MSRP
You said that if everyone would you could buy at well under MSRP (actually it was "if more people pay full boat, then the dealer can more easily afford to sell me a new one every once in a while for less than 60% of MSRP"), but the fact is if everyone paid MSRP you too would be paying MSRP.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It's relative, from the stand point of a car going 70+ MPH you are approaching a "projectile that is traveling towards you at say 25 MPH at the rate of 95 MPH making the time to that "projectile" only a few short seconds if you are 1/8th of a mile behind the truck.
Now if you were walking along the road 1/8th mile behind that truck it would take you about 1.5 to 2 minutes to get to that "projectile" at which point it would be on the ground motionless.
A tire of a vehicle going at a constant speed will only throw a projectile backwards at a rather slow speed for a rather short distance. Since the tire is not "spinning" it is not truely forcing the stones back. What is happening is the downward pressure from the weight of the vehicle is popping them out (sort of like what happened when you step on a package of ketchup). What happens is that it kicks it up into the air (sometimes at a great height) and the force of the impact is really from your car traveling at great speeds.
Now if the car was at a standstill and punched it spinning its wheels then it will throw stuff back at high speeds but thats not what we are talking about.
Trust me I have been along side roads and have been hit by those "projectiles", there really isn't much force in them.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Sure there is a bare mimimum a dealer will accept, but a buyer does not know what that amount is, and that bare minimum may vary from day to day or even minute to minute. So go in and make an offer if you want a new car.
A dealer may figure he can maximize his profit by occasionally selling a car for way below his cost. You've heard of loss leaders, right? And there are probably many other tactical reasons they might do it.
Your paraphrase was not at all what I wrote, but the quote was accurate. So was mine, I said both in past posts.
Don't hold your breath waiting for everyone to pay MSRP; I never suggested they would.
A dealer may figure he can maximize his profit by occasionally selling a car for way below his cost.
The instances of this happening are few and far between. Usually it entails getting one more sale to meet quota or have acellerators kick in.
You've heard of loss leaders, right?
Yes I have, it usually involves selling something at a loss in hopes that it will bring in people who will buy other things at normal markup. Usually used in segments of retail where one visit will usually result in more than one item being sold. It is hard to do a loss leader when the sale is almost always one item.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'm not at all off my track (but I may well be off yours). Here's my post from way back in response to someone who seemed to be castigating flc for paying MSRP+:
There is no crime in paying MSRP or more for a car. It does make for a very enjoyable car buying experience and may net you some extra good will in the future from your dealer too.
Car dealers need to make a living and some like to indulge in a few extravagances too. Don't begrudge them a few full price deals.
MSRP for a new Sonata is a fair deal. I say everyone should be so fortunate as to be able to walk in a pay full MSRP without straining their budget.
And besides, if more people pay full boat, then the dealer can more easily afford to sell me a new one every once in a while for less than 60% of MSRP.
So, congrats flc on your new car purchase! I'm sure you'll enjoy it. It's a great car, whether it is an '06 or '07.
Here is my statement (which you keep misquoting): "...if more people pay full boat, then the dealer can more easily afford to sell me a new one every once in a while for less than 60% of MSRP."
It's simple, the dealer has more money if he sells more at MSRP, so that dealer can afford to sell one really cheap once in a while. Ok? And you don't need to mention again about everyone paying MSRP. I never said it, and it ain't gonna happen!