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BMW 535D
While the USA is barely introduced to current modern generation Diesels (PD 2.0l TDI in the VW Passat and 5.0l V10 TDI in the Touareg, CR in the Merc E320 CDI), Diesel power has made a new leap in the form of the newly introduced BMW 535d. And what a leap.
First a side note to say that this engine is equipped with a particulate filter from the ground up, and it obeys Euro 4 emission standards already. But that's merely the point here...
The meat is that: the basis from the engine is the class leading, inline 6, 3.0l turbodiesel engine that already propels with ease the 330d and X3 3.0d (204hp) on one side and the 530d, 730d and X5 3.0d (218 hp) on the other. But in the new 535d, this engine has been fitted with dual stage turbocharging: a small turbo for low revs, a big one for high revs. Absolute pressure is up from 2.3 bars in 218 hp guise to 2.85 bars here. Compression ratio has been lowered from 17:1 to 16.5:1. This system has permitted to drop variable vane turbochargers entirely.
And it's not quite new, since this engine has been used notably in the X5 that raced at the Paris Dakar and ended up 3rd. But it's the first time it's used in a production car.
Results : max torque 560 Nm at 2000 rpm (500 of which is already available at 1200 rpm, 530 at 1500), peak power 200 kW (272 hp) at 4400 rpm. We're speaking 91 hp per litre here, that's the world record of specific power for a turbocharged Diesel powerplant. 560 Nm is roughly 413 lbft.
According to BMW, this propels the porky, 1700 kg 5 series from 0 to 60 in 6.5 seconds. Better still, the kilometer from a standstill is said to be achieved in 25'9! To give you an idea of how fast this is, consider the fact that the current 330d has been measured in 28'2, the current 530d in 28'5, the Boxster S doesn't do any better, while my current car (Opel Speedster Turbo), praised for its performance, just does 0'9 better in 25 seconds flat!
All this while boasting, always according to the manufacturer, a combined Euro cycle in the high 30s...
First a side note to say that this engine is equipped with a particulate filter from the ground up, and it obeys Euro 4 emission standards already. But that's merely the point here...
The meat is that: the basis from the engine is the class leading, inline 6, 3.0l turbodiesel engine that already propels with ease the 330d and X3 3.0d (204hp) on one side and the 530d, 730d and X5 3.0d (218 hp) on the other. But in the new 535d, this engine has been fitted with dual stage turbocharging: a small turbo for low revs, a big one for high revs. Absolute pressure is up from 2.3 bars in 218 hp guise to 2.85 bars here. Compression ratio has been lowered from 17:1 to 16.5:1. This system has permitted to drop variable vane turbochargers entirely.
And it's not quite new, since this engine has been used notably in the X5 that raced at the Paris Dakar and ended up 3rd. But it's the first time it's used in a production car.
Results : max torque 560 Nm at 2000 rpm (500 of which is already available at 1200 rpm, 530 at 1500), peak power 200 kW (272 hp) at 4400 rpm. We're speaking 91 hp per litre here, that's the world record of specific power for a turbocharged Diesel powerplant. 560 Nm is roughly 413 lbft.
According to BMW, this propels the porky, 1700 kg 5 series from 0 to 60 in 6.5 seconds. Better still, the kilometer from a standstill is said to be achieved in 25'9! To give you an idea of how fast this is, consider the fact that the current 330d has been measured in 28'2, the current 530d in 28'5, the Boxster S doesn't do any better, while my current car (Opel Speedster Turbo), praised for its performance, just does 0'9 better in 25 seconds flat!
All this while boasting, always according to the manufacturer, a combined Euro cycle in the high 30s...
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Comments
M
You read it incorrectly! The engine still displaces 3.0 liters!
And it's not the first application of this technology either, since Opel took the 1.9l Multijet Fiat turbodiesel engine and also fitted it with dual stage turbocharging, resulting in a max torque of 400 Nm from 1500 rpm on and a peak power of 210 hp, so that's more than 100 hp per litre, and more than 200 Nm per litre. That's the engine in the prototype Vectra OPC which was at the Paris motorshow among others.
But unlike the craftmanship by OPC (Opel Performance Center), BMW has made this technology to the public, and had previous experience with it in rallye raid, no less. At least in Europe. I guess they're just waiting to see how the E320 CDI will fare in the US market before they decide on importing this blaster of an engine to your shores.
272 hp is an incredible output for a 3 litre diesel engine. With all that torque and the good fuel economy, I hope this engine is available in the USA when the low sulfur content fuel is.
If diesels catch on again, BMW, VW, Audi, Mercedes will be ready to offer one in every segment they have cars in now. Can you imagine it?
Mercedes, BMW and Audi alone have at least 1 and in many cases 2 diesel versions of every sedan they sell, usually a 6 and a V8.
There is a E400 CDI in Europe that could be priced at the same as the E500, would be a hit I think.
Picture it, MBUSA headquarters Summer 2006:
A commercial is drafted with not a string around your finger but a rope around your ankle....the new Mercedes diesels:
....the C270, E320, E400, ML320, ML400, S320, S400 CDI models all coming down a a very wide street or a desert with white paper over their tailpipes.....
BMW's ad is all to easy to predict:
"The Ultimate Alternative Power Driving Machine".
M
In fact, Mercedes was, quite on the opposite, a big believer in prechamber Diesels of old, only the market and results of CR Diesels on other cars had them go the CR way.
Completely unrelated, but despite its constant progress too, the PD technology just hasn't had such a success. Only VW and Land Rover use it, and that's pretty much all... That's probably because unlike the CR, PD is manufactured by one and only OEM, Bosch.
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Unbelievable.
How can the US not want this technology.
I was a gasoline-engine user until I bought my actual 2004 BMW 530d (you may look at my user profile here for specs.). I only can now say that if with the 2004 530d engine I am so enchanted as I am, I cannot imagine how I would be with the performance of the new 535d.
José
I saw a comparo on Auto, Motor und Sport TV between the 535d and the MB E400 CDI and the BMW beat the Benz and the E400 is a V8! The V8 in the E400 only made 260hp and has since been revised to make 314hp. Mercedes' new V6 (yes V6, the I6 is gone) makes 224hp, but there is a tri-turbo version that makes 286hp that is almost certain for production.
These engines from BMW and MB are coming here as soon as out diesel fuel is cleaned up. Bet on it!
M
M
Mercedes diesels were pre-chamber when naturally aspirated - in car form. The Class 7 and 8 truck Mercedes diesels were direct injection usually by an in-line Bosch pump. The difference between pre-chamber and direct injection is similar to the difference (in performance and efficiency) in SI - spark-ignition engines - (usually vergaser) to side-valves vs. ohv - in path of combustion gases. Pre-chamber diesels need 22:1 CR instead of direct injection 18:1.
When turbocharging is used then the CR (with no boost applying) can go down to 16:1. Such CR obviously builds up as the turbo (s) deliver boost. Having the non-boost CR much below that leads to difficulties in starting - as it is a CI - compression-ignition - engine. Insufficient compression through design, or wear or say valve seat or broken ring leakage - and one would need to start - if at all - with ether and soluble oil.
Dr. Hubbert just retired as head of Mercedes cars said that common-rail would "sweep the industry" and he was correct. More developments are coming.
The higher the fuel pressure the greater the efficiency.
I just read about the new Mercedes E420CDI, witch puts out 314hp, and 540ft.lbs from a 4,0L V8 diesel! The E500 only puts out 306hp from a 5,0L V8 gas engine!
But it's the torque of the diesel engines that's the real advantage, they have so much more torque than gas engines!
The new BMW 320d, this is a 2,0L inline 4, that puts out 163hp and 252ft.lbs of torque. It does 0-60 in 8,4sec and a top speed of 138mph with an automatic! The manual numbers are even more impressive! It averages 35,3 miles to the gallon.
I feel al little sorry for you amreicans since you don't have this technology over there.
Welcome to the Forum. We do appreciate you folks in Europe perfecting the diesel vehicles. So when we do finally get them they will be the best. Have a fine week.
PS
Have hybrids made any impact in Europe that you have noticed?
Not much, to the best of my knowledge. There are reviews and articles from time to time in the specialized press, but I barely see hybrids kicking the roads/streets, at least in Spain and the south of France, which are the places I mostly stroll.
Best regards,
José
#1. Mercedes-Benz Gets It
Mercedes will offer two fascinating new sports cars, the SL400 and the SLK320 CDIs. These cars are interesting because they should be among the first sports car chassis to sport diesel power. And not just any diesel power. The 320 CDIs will come with a tri-turbo V-6 dishing out 465 lb•ft of torque. The SL400 will have a twin-turbo V-8 diesel that jumps off the line under the auspices of 538 lb-ft of grunt. Thesecars should accelerate faster than the base gasoline cars. Socialresponsibility meets fun. Ja!
#2. Mercedes Diesels Set Record
In May, three Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI sedans set world diesel
endurance records, covering 100,000 miles at an average speed of
139 mph. Each car completed over 20,000 laps at the Laredo, Texas,
high-speed circuit during a 30-day period. Mercedes was particularly
interested in demonstrating the durability of its new maintenance-free
particulate filter, part of a package of emissions control features that
make diesel a practical alternative for the future.
The only thing I wonder about is how these engines will sound with the top down on a SLK or SL. Other than that if these go into production they should give these two roadsters a much broader appeal in Europe. We'll never see such a thing in the U.S.
M
Acceleration 80-120 km•h (49.71-74.56 mi•h)
BMW 530d manual: 4.9 sec
BMW 535d auto: 4.4 sec
Recuperation 80-120 km•h (49.71-74.56 mi•h) in 4th gear
BMW 530d manual: 5.6 sec
BMW 535d auto: 5.6 sec
Recuperation 80-120 km•h (49.71-74.56 mi•h) in 5th gear
BMW 530d manual: 7.1 sec
BMW 535d auto: 7.5 sec
Perhaps more important is that the 535d averages 2 l•100km more than the 530d does (that is, 0.85 gallon•100mi more). The 525d should indeed be more economic and still enough efficient.
However, there is no other Diesel car quicker than the BMW 535d in its segment.
Best regards,
José
http://www.traccionintegralturbo.com/foro/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/Tandas/calafat110620- - 05/_MG_5690.jpg
http://www.traccionintegralturbo.com/foro/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/Tandas/calafat110620- - 05/_MG_5691.jpg
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http://www.traccionintegralturbo.com/foro/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/Tandas/calafat110620- - 05/_MG_5694.jpg
Just because I'm selling my pristine '97 328iC with only 56K on it (before gas goes to $4 a gal and it loses all value) after I return from Mexico in three weeks in order to buy a '98 or '99 M-B TDI to become a tree hugging diesel owner doesn't mean I don't drool over the M3 and want my cake and eat it too.
Anybody know how one can bring these diesels into the U.S. grey market like they did with Eurocars in the '80's? If you run biodiesel in them then the low sulphur thing doesn't make a bit of difference (though if you had to fill up with regular U.S. diesel at some point it might hurt the PM filter or the emissions gear on the diesel - the solution is to carry a 5gal container of biodiesel in the trunk just in case) since biodiesel has 80% to 100% less sulphur than petro diesel (U.S.) and usually 1/3rd the sulphur of Euro low-sulphur diesel.
austxjr
http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/
According to it, the best new engines this year are
1. BMW 5-litre V10 (M5, M6) 251 points
2. Ferrari 4.3-litre V8 (F430) 146
3. Toyota 3.3-litre Hybrid (Lexus RX400h) 133
4. Porsche 3.8-litre (911) 130
5. BMW Diesel 3-litre Twin-Turbo (535d) 121
6. Honda 3-litre Hybrid (Accord) 90
Just before leaving France, I was driving my dad's car (Golf IV, 130hp + chip = 150) behind a new 5 series somewhere in the north of France. I thought it was a 530D, "the usual" (in France) (a great car anyway). But it wasn't, It was the brand new 535D!, I couldn't believed it! I was the first time I saw a 535D...and the last time...
The engine is a bi-turbo, this is great but this is not an innovation...the real innovation is the the fact that the turbos are in "series": the smaller one is blowing into the bigger one. BMW is the first to introduced this technology on the market.
I know some people working in the diesel department of a great german manufacturer....the "Diesel War" between the german manufacturers has just begun...In a couple a year from now (maybe next year?), we will see some AMAZING and INSANE diesel engines...
Wait and see
PS: This website site is great!
I just hope we see them here (usa)!
I don't even need to say that I am 100% for diesel engines. Someone said that in the UK, 45% of the car sold are diesel...in France it's not 45%...it's 90%...and PSA (Peugeot) makes more diesel engines than any other car manufacturer in the world. I have been driving diesel cars for 10 years and diesel powered machines for almost 20 years (Deere and CAT diesel engines rock!!!). For me, gas it's just for bikes and sports vehicules, the rest is better to drive with a diesel engine.
BUT I don't see the point in having a diesel engine in a luxury car or vehicule. If one can afford a 100000$ car (like the TouaregV10), does he worry about the gas price and the mileage? I don't think so. I think he worries more about the comfort, the silence, high HP and RPM engine...
Why do the german manufacturer are putting some much money in designing diesel engines for the luxury cars? Maybe they are trying to create a new niche market ? Where are the customers for those kind of cars and SUVs ? In Europe? I know it's all about diesel in Europe but this is not the kind of car that anybody can afford. No, the market is here, the customers are in the US (remember why Porsche decided to go for the Cayenne...).
In the US, it's all about gas engine. Rich people want something different, something exotic: "You want the model with the V8 gas engine but we have a model even more expensive than this one, the one with the V10 diesel engine..." I am sure they I have those thoughts in mind in Stuttgart, Neckarsulm and Munchen. Why build such big engines if it's not for the US market (and its numerous rich customers) ? Because it's very unlikely that VW is going to sell hundreds and hundreds of their TouaregV10 in Europe, it's rather Touraeg R5 and V6. I think the emission standards are not a big deal (even the Californian standards), they already know how to "solve" the problem (Peugeot and their particule filters already have the solution...).
What are they waiting for? Maybe I am totally wrong. Maybe they are having fun in making bigger and bigger engines. "You made a V8 diesel engine, I am gonna make a V10 engine...You made a V10 engine, I am gonna made a V12..."
My toy is bigger than yours :P
I have just realized that VW is just importing the lower HP version of their 1.9L and 2.0L TDI (around 100hp)! Why don't they import the 130, 150 (1.9L) and 140hp version (2.0L) of those engines. Emission standards ?
Because there is a HUGE difference between the 100-115hp versions and the 130-140-150hp versions. The first ones are quiet....the second ones are pure FURRY. You wouldn't believe it's the same block! The difference is the same between the Audi V6tdi 155-163hp and the 180hp version of the same engine.
My dad (in France) has a Golf IV TDI 130hp, 6 speed (MatchII, latest version) upgraded with a german chip (inexpensive, 70euros for the injector-pump version, more for the older version, easy to install, great stuff) that gives more punch (more torque than power) when driving on the 5th or 6th. It's almost like driving a BMW330D or a A4180TDI: you are cruising at 60mph on the highway, you push the throttle down and handfull of seconds after you are at 120mph...still on the same gear
It's like being pushed by a huge catapult that seems to keep pushing for ever...only a diesel engine can do that (unless you have a gas engine that goes up to 9000rpm and more: M5, S2000, Modena,etc... but the price isn't the same
I drove the new Passat 2.0L TDI, the engine is basically the same as the 1.9L version but not as brutal as the 1.9L, they changed that because many people complained about that. Surprisingly, the new engine is more noisy :confuse:
But it's a great car, for sure a best-seller in Europe. They announce a 170hp version of the 2.0L engine. Toyota has just launched a 170hp version of its 4 cylinder engine on the Avensis. Round one, fight!
I've not actually driven one... no I was driving a TVR Griffith 400, (4 litre V8 UK two seater spots car, for those that don't know). I exited a roundabout onto a short 1/4 mile section duel carriageway. I noticed the 535d badge on the new BMW infront of me as I pulled out to overtake. Now I gave the TVR everything it had to 6k red line in 2nd & 3rd and yes I got past and maybe just over a car & a half length infront over that 1/4 mile.
I'd have been impressed if it were a petrol BMW that kept with me but amazed it was so quick. The TVR is also slightly tweaked over a standard 400 so performance is somewhere between a 400 & a 430 in reality. Of course I had the better seat & the nicer sound track, but I bet the BMW driver had a equally big smile. Alas the TVR isn't mine I was repairing the exhaust for a friend while he was on holiday. I've been driving diesels for a long time and remember unbelievably slow slugs like the ford Granada & Peugeot 604 turbo diesels. I currently drive a 1996 Audi A6 Avant 2.5 TDI (140bhp 5cyl), which is both economical, (50mpg average with some care), and adequate performance wise. I will however look out for a 535d estate, (wagon), in 5 or so years when they reach my price point
Those engineers from Germany are mad
The mileage you get with diesels is another reason. Specially here, in Europe, where the fuel prices can reach the moon in a few time. Nobody disdains cheaper journeys no matter he/she drives a small car or a luxury performance car. A 5-Series or similar is not a Ferrari, in any case.
Then, a diesel engine usually endures more mileage or more years in good condition. For this reason, resale prices are higher for diesel powered cars, it including those of the high-level segment, here in the UE.
Finally, there is silence and no vibrations in a high-end diesel-powered car nowadays.
Those are the reasons supporting my crossing the line from gas to diesel when I bought my 530d one year ago. I was a gas car driver until then. The only thing I regret sometimes is the noise of a good gas engine. That of the diesel is always more bronco. My family and I still drive a gas Mini Cooper—so funny and useful! :shades: But there was no comparable diesel engine there!
Regards
I hope that other car makers are going to follow BMW and really build same serious sports car based on diesel. The era of gasoline car ends with electronic injection, it's hard to say but it's true. The new M3 engine, for example is good, it was "the best engine of the year" in 2000something, but is not as fun as the old carburator. Actually it's quite boring.
It would be nice to have a Z4d with the new 535D engine, or a V12d on the 7 series or see WV using what BMW has done with the 535D.
What a shame that petroleum engine are about to end when a new diesel chapter is starting.
I hope that other car makers are going to follow BMW and really build same serious sports car based on diesel. The era of gasoline car ends with electronic injection, it's hard to say but it's true. The new M3 engine, for example is good, it was "the best engine of the year" in 2000something, but is not as fun as the old carburetor. Actually it's quite boring.
It would be nice to have a Z4d with the new 535D engine, or a V12d on the 7 series or see WV using what BMW has done with the 535D.
What a shame that petroleum engine are about to end when a new diesel chapter is starting.
Is there a way to have one imported?
Thanks,
Regards,
José
Think about it, who'd work on it?
Aside from that, all cars have to be federally certified.
dave
Regards,
Jose
If they had the 335d here, i'd buy one. 272 hp, 380lbft--yum!
dave
P.S. Pond = Atlantic
I am interested in the car and BMWNA will not support it
Will it be the suv's ( boo ) or, perhaps a 535d with 6-speed, active roll stabilization, etc ( yay! ).
My question is if I buy a 2008 535id to bring home, does anyone know about what would have to be done and cost to convert to US specs? Also, will the diesel engine set up for over here need a conversion or additives to run on US diesel fuel?
I went to Oktoberfest in Munich in Sep and sat with a guy in R&D at BMW. I also contacted the USA Marketing rep while visiting the plant. Nothing comfirmed and very unofficial, but was "told" that the current plan was to market the X5 SUV as a diesel in the US for the 2009 model and if all went well, follow with the 3 or 5 or both series for 2010 models. So looks like it is still some time away unfortunately.
Should I bring home a European conversion or not? Its gonna cost me. What would the resale look like if I decided to sell it and get a 2010 when they come to the USA?
I need to make a decision before the end of this year, so the expertise on this forum will help a lot.
Thanks.