BMW Z4 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

peakpro · July 2005

I think the price is good.

But why are you skipping the sports package on an auto 2.5.

I own a 3.0 automatic so my wife can also drive it. Without the sports button it lacks a little umph. (IMHO)

flycaster · July 2005

Although the SP would be nice, I'm passing on as a matter saving $. The SP is no great deal in the 2.5. However, with the 3.0 I think one does see a difference. I just might wait for the 2006's with the 215hp output of the 2.5.

peakpro · July 2005

I think the SP is more improtant in the 2.5; put thats a personal choice.

I have heard but can not confirm that only the 3.0 2006 will get the new engine. The 2006 2.5 will get the same engine as the 2005.

Does anyone have any info on this?

flycaster · July 2005

flycaster · July 2005

2005 2.5 Merlot Z4 with: Premium, automatic shift, leather, alarm system (alarm not figured in as they are not charging me for it)

MSRP = $41,095

Invoice = $37,685

Selling price offered= $37,227

On reflection, I think I should now discuss the dealer's $2500 incentive and work off the invoice price. Furthermore, I can offer to pay $1000 over invoice (is this too much, should I go for lower?) less incentive ($37,685 - $2500 + $1000) which now becomes a selling price of $36,185.

So now I'd like to know if my thinking is correct. If so, then I should push for the $36,185 over their offer of $37,227. If they won''t go for this, is their offer reasonable enough to take?

Thanks

I hope this doesn't become a double post as I tried sending the same message earlier, but as it apparently didn't go through, here's another try.

kyfdx · July 2005

The $36,185 sounds good to me.. But, if you are just negotiating with this one dealer, you have to be ready for them to just say no..

You might be able to come to a deal somewhere between those two numbers... If this is the car you really want, I wouldn't let a few hundred here or there stop me... By the time you add in the cost of the alarm/installation and the MACO charge that BMW adds to the invoice, they are probably only making $500 at the $36,185 number...

If they take that... so much the better...

flycaster · July 2005

Actually, I'm in no big rush. I want this Z4 configuration, but I don't have to have the car yesterday. I can be flexible and take a different configuration at a later time, also. The lower selling price sounds good to you...does this mean that I have a leg to stand on to get this number? IE, was I right on my off-invoice assumptions?

Since I'm not in a big rush and can wait until the 2006 Z4s come out, I would take this 2005 Z4 at $36,185 (or a few buck more) if I felt that this price would still be a good one as October's new models appear. Do you have any councel as to how good this price is under the "new car" scenario?

Thansk again for your help.

kyfdx · July 2005

That would be a great price... but, as I noted.. it is about a $500 profit deal for the dealer.. If you can get that, I'd jump on it... Maybe even for $500 more than that..

I don't think the new '06 models come out until January for the Z4...

flycaster · July 2005

Yeah, it would have been a good price as the dealer would have worked with me to get the lower price. However, the car was sold by another salesperson. Actually, I don't feel too badly as all this was a great learning experience (and I really didn't need the car) and as the 2006s will be out in October (according to the salesperson), maybe there will be better deals as September ends? Thanks again for your help.

mikey432 · July 2005

I have little idea about the z4's so I would appreciate your feedback on pricing and cost.

I am looking at a 2004 2.5i, 5-speed manual with the sports package and xenon lights, heated seats. it's driven 6k miles. the private party is asking for 27k. does that price seem reasonable or should i be bargaining some more? what's the same 2005 cost brand new?

another concern i have is the cost of ownership. how much will this car depreciate and what will it's value be a year or two from now? (i have been driving a honda all this time so i have enjoyed low cost of ownership).

cheers!

kyfdx · July 2005

Are those all the options? No power top? Metallic paint? etc...

If so, a new '05 would be $37,500... They have pretty good incentives.. Actual selling price would probably be around $33K..

That said, the $27K asking price is realistic.. Most private sellers are very unrealistic.... At $26K, you'd have a good deal... and a lot of warranty left..

Maintenance is free up until the end of the 4yr/50K warranty... The only thing you'd have to pay for is tires.... Those runflats are expensive, by the way...

Also, you can't drive in the snow with the Sport package tires.. summer only..

I think at $26K, you'll do well on depreciation....

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · July 2005

Leather? Premium package? Power seats?

There are a lot of options that can jack up the price... If he is original owner, he should be able to show you the window sticker...

mikey432 · July 2005

i am not sure if it's a power-top or metallic paint. i'll confirm with the owner. how much depreciation am i looking at? the dealer told me that the value drops to 50% of the orignal price after 3 years.

so if i intend to sell it two years from now what price would i get on it?

kyfdx · July 2005

Lets see... hmm.. crystal ball is a little fuzzy...

Seriously... It is hard to say... the Z4 came out in '03... so, there aren't any 3 year old examples to compare it to....

It will depend on miles driven, condition, your location, etc...

But, if you take care of it, and it only has around 20K-25K miles in another couple of years, I'd think you could see $18K-$20K, fairly easily... If it is a late in-service date.. (say, July of '04), and you still have a year of warranty left, then that would be a big selling point...

Unless the car is white, black or red.. it likely has metallic paint.. that is a $475 option...

regards,
kyfdx

mikey432 · July 2005

it's color is metallic titanium silver.
the seat covers are not leather (they're leatherette).
it's got a manual top.

it's definetly got the sports package and xenon lights and heated seats.

I don't think the price will budge from 27K. is it a fairly reasonable deal or still a bargain?

mikey432 · July 2005

also one other thing. was was the change from 2004 model to 2005 model? when do the 2006 models come out and will there be any significant changes in that?

kyfdx · July 2005

'05 models are essentially the same... Possibly some differences in how options were packaged...

That '04 has everything you really need.. Sport, stick, xenons, heated seats.. Silver is a great color... The only drawback is -no power top-...

I'd say the price is "fair"... It is hard to compare to others out there on price, because most have quite a bit more options....

That said, unless this guy is your best friend, everything is negotiable... And, trying to sell a $27K car privately is tough... I'd certainly try for another $1000 less...

But, even at $27K, you aren't going to get hurt.. As I said before, if the car has only been in service for a year, it would more desireable than a car that was coming up on two years old..

As far as '06s? I don't think they are coming out until January... They may have the new upgraded engines that are in the 3-series at that time...

But, if so, expect a price increase... Plus, I don't think it would hurt the value of yours any... At $26K-$27K, you'll still have about the cheapest '04 model around...

Really.. the only thing that bugs me is the lack of a power top.. But, since I've never used a manual top on a Z4, I can't even really say if that is a big deal or not.

regards,
kyfdx

dtwicks · July 2005

I am looking at a Fully loaded (Sport, Premium, Heated Seats, Automatic, Xenon, No NAV) Merlot at a local dealer in So Cal. 9K miles. After about an hour of negotiating the dealer said the best offer he can make is $32.4. Is this a fair price or should I offer lower.

woodyww · July 2005

Did you see what Terry said on the Real-World Trade-In Values forum about this car? If I understand it, with the no-leather, no power top, etc. he's saying around $25.5K for the car, trade-in value to a dealer. If you're sure you don't care about those options, want a stick, etc., why not offer $26-$26.5K? And the spt pckg & xenons are really nice. Hard to say, the no-leather, no power top, & even the stick will hurt you when you sell, but it sounds like you're saving up front.

I'd be most concerned about doing a carfax, getting service records from the dealer, & having it checked out for any possible repaired body damage. Hard to get the exact combo of color, options, & price you want on a used bmw because the options lists are so extensive.....I've blown off a couple of really nice used bmws over something like the interior color, & regretted it later. I wouldn't lose this one over $1000 if it checks out, & you're sure it's what you want.

bmr · July 2005

Can anyone tell me if BMW will extend the cash incentives to the dealer after 08/01.

kyfdx · July 2005

Someone might be able to tell you tomorrow..

They don't let this out ahead of time... and, really.. it has no effect..

If they do end the incentives, every dealer will report any Z4 in stock as "sold", and collect the incentive.. So, his cost is the same...

The only downside, if this happens, is the maintenance and warranty clock start running on those vehicles... So, you should still be able to get the same deal on the car... but, you might be giving up a few weeks or months of warranty, depending on how long after that date you buy..

regards,
kyfdx

bmr · August 2005

thanks kyfdx. your a great help on this forum to everyone.

dtwicks · August 2005

BUMP
I am looking at a Fully loaded (Sport, Premium, Heated Seats, Automatic, Xenon, No NAV) Merlot at a local dealer in So Cal. 9K miles. After about an hour of negotiating the dealer said the best offer he can make is $32.4. Is this a fair price or should I offer lower.

bmr · August 2005

Well, my first buying experience over the internet has been less than fulfilling. Seems that all of the web sites offering quotes are nothing more than a glorified way for the dealerships to get sales leads. I had several dealerships email me a form letter back saying 'Hi, we are here for you and please stop in and see us.' The follow-up's were about the same. Apparently, they don’t even read the information on the car you are looking for. Be prepared for the telephone calls. "Hi, my name is______. Call me and we can set up an appointment. I hate to be rude and not acknowledge their efforts, but after returning the first 2 calls and hearing the same message left on the answering machine by another 3, I decided not to. Also, forget any type of quote over the phone. The pressure was on to get me into the showroom. (Note: I live in PA, and work in MD. The nearest dealership is a 50 miles round trip from home. MD is an 80 mile round trip each day. To visit a couple of dealers, I could easily rack up a couple hundred miles. The internet quote seemed like a good idea. Save time, work at home on the pricing and narrow down the decision, and save gas money too).

Anyway, I did receive one message from a dealership that promised to give me a quote. I returned the call.

Typical salesman. What I was told:
1. The Z4 is an in-demand car bringing full invoice price.
2. The Dealer incentive is cash to the dealership to sell the cars, not intended as a pass thru to the customer.
3. TMV pricing is a dream.
4. BMW provides no discounts from the invoice to the dealership.
5. He called on his personal cell phone, not the dealers business phone. (Remember this point)

I pointed out
1. The Z4 isn't as in demand as he thought. Otherwise, BMW wouldn’t be offering a $4,500 incentive on the 3.0. It’s the incentive that is attracting the buyers.
2. If the dealer is getting $4,500 to attract customers, I want my fair share. And, since I'm the one buying the car, I want the lions share and then some.
3. I doubt edmunds makes up its numbers.
4. If R____l BMW isn't getting a discount from, BMW, then it isn't serving its customers well and will soon go out of business from its competition.

Haggling over, I advised the salesman I had no trade, had been pre-approved for a loan, and was ready to buy. 5 minutes over the phone, and a half hour of paperwork, and he could make an easy $1,000. Lets talk numbers. Only one, and it should be a good one.

Well, I got the Z4 (3.0, premium package, automatic, heated seats, windscreen and floor mats, MSRP $43,198) for $39,800. I thought still too much, but the colors and option package I wanted were going to be a little rough to find (Hint: check all the dealer sites for their inventory).

Several phone calls were traded, all on his personal cell phone. I asked why he wasn’t at the dealership, he always indicated he was coming or going.
Sold, as long as he could find the vehicle. He did, and we agreed to split the towing costs. I gave him a credit card deposit. That was on a Friday, the day before the incentive ended. On Saturday, he called back.. He was arranging to trade for the car and wanted some information from me (Why was'nt this done on Friday? He said someone had been looking at it at the other dealership and they wouldn't release it). Ok, I gave him my name, address, phone, etc. But when it got to Social Security Number and Driver's license, I said no. I would provide that information on Monday when I came in to settle on the car. Besides, not that I will ever give that information out to someone I haven't even met over the phone, I don’t know why he would need it if I was obtaining the financing and would have a check in hand at the dealership. The deposit should hold the car.

He wasn’t please but said okay, I'll call you when I get hold of the car. Sunday, no call. Monday morning I call the credit card company to see if the deposit charge was made and at the agreed upon amount. No charge was made to the card. Monday at 12:00 I called him. Very evasive: well I don’t know if we can get it, it might have been sold, I'm on vacation this week, but I'll work on it….I'm always working anyway, I sell 200 cars a year. I might be able to find one, but it will have more options and cost more. The dealer incentive is over you know. Its too late to book this for the close of the sales month. Yep, an absolute t**d. Fine, call me tonight with the final price and I'll be in tomorrow to pay for it.

Well, its now past the dealer's closing time and still no phone call.

So much for my first internet buying experience.

kyfdx · August 2005

dtwicks.. I posted your info here: Real World Trade-In Values

Click the link... subscribe to that discussion, and Terry will be along in a day (or three) to give you an answer..

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · August 2005

We have an answer..

See here: RWTIV

He valued it as non-CPO, so just add about $1500 to his numbers... He seems to think your price is very good.

regards,
kyfdx

flycaster · August 2005

Been doing this over the phone, so I don't have all the particulars. All I have is the overall picture. 2005 Z4 3.0 (new, not demo): MSRP=$48,034, 2-year lease at $339/mo with $3000 down + $489 dealer fee, $825 bank acquisition, taxes, first month payment, tags, license transfer.
Thanks.

zedfour · August 2005

This forum has been very helpful. Just want to share my $0.02 and hopefully help others who are thinking of purchasing used.

2003 Z4 3.0 titanium silver metallic with Sport, Premium, Convenience packages. ~12k miles. $31850 from an independent dealer. Car was detailed and is very clean (still has the new car smell). This is in the SF bay area.

kyfdx, do you think this was a good deal?

wantone5 · August 2005

Don't give up on an internet purchase. I live in Massachusetts and I dealt with New Country Motors in Hartford,CT. I had a wonderful experience. I had spent a great deal of time on the internet checking prices and dealer inventories. When I was finally ready to make a purchase, I had a price in my head and I knew of three dealers within 100 miles that had the vehicle that I wanted. When I asked for my price quote, only New Country replied. I had an email a day and a half later that had a solid quote and a date that the quote would expire. I immediately called the dealer to make an appointment to see the car. That afternoon, I visited the dealer and I was met by a member of the internet sales team (one person). We discussed the car and the price that was in the email was the price that I paid. There were no surprises!!! The price that I paid was considerable lower than the Edmunds TMV price. I was extremely happy and I would definitely use the internet again in the future. So, don't give up.

kyfdx · August 2005

You really need to get a selling price to see if the lease is good.. Also, what is the mileage allowance? 10K, 12K or 15K per year?

A few things stand out..

1) $3000 down... Not a good idea to put extra money down on a lease... It just makes the payment look lower.. it doesn't really save any money..

2) $489 dealer fee? GEEEEZZZZ .... that adds $20/mo to the cost of a 24 month lease..

3) $825 acq. fee.... base fee is $625.. they are marking it up for extra profit..

By the time you add everything up, the "real" cost of this 24 month lease is about $510/mo. + tax... That isn't too bad for a $48K car...

Another thing.. MSRP of $48,034? I've never seen a BMW sticker price that didn't end in $5 or $0...

regards,
kyfdx

flycaster · August 2005

Thanks for the help, kyfdx. This is the first time I am considering leasing a car, always bought for cash before. And, now with looking at the" added" costs, I may go back to my old ways.

Perhaps the major point that comes thru to me from your analysis is that one doesn't take a lease before bagaining on the final selling price, eh? I the present case, the dealer called me with a "deal." He knew I was looking the previous month, and now he had some great for me. Of course, he didn't say that I could bargain for any of his cars and get a deal. As I've been doing the research, I find that the reason he said he had a deal was because BMW was continuing to give its dealers the $2500/$4500 incentives to move the Z4 2.5 and 3.0. And furthermore, the MF on the 2-year lease was half that of a 3-year lease, 0.001 and .002, respectively. So, for my next go around-at the end of the month, I'll stick with a 2.5 wih the equipment I want, work the $2500 off invoice and then see what selling price we can come up with. Once that is done, then we can talk leasing vs buying.

BTW, given the MF differences between the 2 and 3 year leasing, and the differences in the residuals at 10K miles (66% vs 59%), and given that I arrive at a selling price that would be the same regardless of year's leasing, does the 2 year lease give me a better bang for my bucks than the 3 year lease? My only thoughts here are that leasing at 2 years forces me to pay a lot in "fees, etc" if I go to lease again after 2 years.

Regards,
Adam

kyfdx · August 2005

You have a good handle on it... The lower money factor on the 2 year lease is offset somewhat (or mostly) by the relatively small difference in residuals between the 2 year and 3 year lease (10%-12% is normal).

Amortizing set fees like the acquisition fee and dealer fee over 2 years, instead of 3 years is also a negative for the two year lease...

That said, the two year lease on this car is still a fairly good deal..

There is nothing wrong with negotiating by payment, if you know the selling price, and can figure out how low they can go... But, if doing that, it is much easier if you negotiate monthly prices with only 1st payment, security deposit, title/license fees upfront.. All acq.fees, dealer fees, taxes, etc.. rolled into the payment..

That will give you a true cost to lease the car, and makes it easier to evaluate vs. a straight purchase..

regards,
kyfdx

flycaster · August 2005

Hi kyfdx,

So far, so good. You really have been a great help as I climb the leasing learning curve.

In trying to figure out what the $ differences would be between a 2 and 3 year lease, I've picked the car I want, its accessories, and what I figure I can get it for. Then using a leasing formula, assuming $0 down (just to keep it easy and conceptual), I plugged in the MSRP (41,095), cap cost (36,123), the 2 and 3 year residual %s at 10K (66% and 59%, respectively), and the 2 and 3 year MFs (.001 and .002, resopectively), and arrived at cost/year figures of $5292/2 year and $5412/3 year (after getting the monthly fees or $441 and $451 for 2 and 3 year, respectively). So, as far as I can tell, if I am correct, there is $120 difference between these two leasing options...certainly, no big deal and quite interesting that the doubling of the MF on the longer lease really doesn't make a hell of difference when you now consider that all the other fees won't have to be repeated in 2 years, but can be carried out to 3 years.

Hopefully, kyfdx, you can make sense of my ramblings and let me know if I've "got it."

Thanks again,

Adam

Now what really gets me into going for a 3 year lease is that

kyfdx · August 2005

I get most of what you are saying... I'm just a little lost on the details, as it would entail me going back and checking all the numbers again...

But, any costs you pay upfront (cap cost reductions, acquisition fees, etc.) will have the effect of making the 2 year lease look better than the 3 year lease.. Artificially so....

I think, in essence.. that the two year and three year lease programs on this car are very similar... One school of thought: If you have a really good lease deal, it is more advantageous to take it for the longer period, as you may not find that good of a deal the next time.. even if the price is the same..

regards,
kyfdx

imflyboy · August 2005

I'm ready to buy but am willing to wait a couple of months if the 2006 models will be out then. But my dealer told me that the Z4 is on a Spring cycle and that the 2006's come out after March 06. Is he on the line? :confuse:

Thanks.

kyfdx · August 2005

I'm not sure of the exact month.. but, he is correct... they aren't coming out this Fall.. Definitely after the 1st of the new year...

peakpro · August 2005

I would not expect then until feb 06 at the earlist

imflyboy · August 2005

Thanks for the fast answer guys. I guess the 2005 Z4 will be in my near term future now. :shades:

flycaster · August 2005

I'm also in the market for a Z4, and was hoping to do the dealing just before the 2006s come out. Of course, figuring that I would get the best deal then. But, as you know it is tough to wait. Nonetheless, if you are of the same mind, do you think that it really will make any $ difference getting one now or waiting until the 2006s arrive?

nyccarguy · August 2005

I saw a pic of the Z4 coupe in one of the auto mags...looks great!

peakpro · August 2005

Last year I started looking for a Z4 around this time and finally bought inl October and got a great deal on a Z4. There was a nice supply and had my pick of several cars.

This year I am looking for another Z4 and the supply is no where near as great as last year. Be careful waiitng too long. You may not find what you really want.

flycaster · August 2005

Yeah, I know what you mean. I was thinking of maybe giving it a go at the end of this month. But, then again, this is probably too early...assuming that there will be some cars around. Actually, as I am looking for 2.5, I think I may have a better chance than if I wanted a 3.0.

BTW, when you bought last October, were there any incentives?

madabushi · August 2005

I seem to be in a similar situation as you folks. I am looking for an used 04/03 model with low miles. Does anyone have any idea/experience with used car auto brokers (I am in N.California). I've heard from some friends that they get it at whole sale price from the lease returns to BMW for a flat fee. You thus end up paying way less than retail.

peakpro · August 2005

yes...

I got 9k off a car on the lot that had 200 miles on it....

staryjary · August 2005

My Z4 had to be ordered from the factory because the combination of options that I was looking for was nowhere to be found on the lots anywhere in the US (literally!) and I was not willing to compromise:

- 3.0
- manual transition (no extra cost)
- black top (no extra cost)
- beige interior (no extra cost)
- wood trim (no extra cost)
- silver gray exterior
- premium package
- GPS
- heated seats
- hardtop prep
- rubber mats

MSRP - $47,293
Paid - $40,490 cash (exluding tax and license plates)

It took three weeks from the time that I placed the order to when the car actually arrived from the factory in late July. I'm very happy and my hair is now in a perpetual state of disarray

flycaster · August 2005

Looks like you di d good job. How does your buying price compare to the car's invoice price (before you had the dealer give you his $4500 incentive)?

staryjary · August 2005

$43,283 invoice

flycaster · August 2005

Good going. Looks like you paid the dealer about $1200 over the $4500 deducted. A very reasonable compromise...if I'm correct in my assumption that the dealer had the $4500 to give. If he didn't, then you got the the best deal I ever heard of.

staryjary · August 2005

$4.5K was part of the calculation. Depending on the dealer real cost structure (you never really know that) the profit was somewhere between $1.2K and $1.7K. My goal was to start with $1K and stay below $2K including everything like those pesky document processing fees (!?) and what not. I think I did achieved that. The $4.5K is why I had to do the deal on the beginning of the month to ensure that the manufacturing will deliver within the same month. That eliminated the dealer's risk of BMW not renewing the incentive for the next month (BMW makes a decision on a monthly basis) and therefore having to reneg on the deal. The incentive must be applied (apparently) when the car is sold and not when the deal is made.

I was not able to close the deal with the dealer that I spent the most time with. Here is a quote from that experience for your amusement: "[...] it is my opinion that what you want, which is for me/us to make no money, is unreasonable. I invested A LOT of time with you and it may have cost me thousands at the end. My first priority is to take care of my family and I can't do that if I'm not earning an income [...]". I guess for that dealer no profit is a better deal than some profit (sales volume is part of the equation) - weird.

flycaster · August 2005

Thanks for the details, Staryjary. Right now I'm pondering if I should wait until the end of September to make a deal on a car in the lot. Of course, I'm betting on two things: one is that the dealer incentive (be it $2500 for the 2.5 or $4500 for the 3.0) will still be in effect, and that by buying at the end of the fiscal quarter the dealer will be more interested in moving cars.

Before reading you post, I didn't even think of ordering a new car. Also, I didn't realize the a new car could be ordered and delivered within one month's time. So, now I'm also thinking that maybe I should try to order a new car so that I get what I want and don't have to hassle of what the dealer wants to push on me from one of his cars on the lot.

As I come from sales, I can appreciate what your salesperson was saying/feeling. But, he was just using a ploy to tweak your sympathy to buy from him. However, in the end it is our bottom line that counts...not the salesperson's. If they really want the sale then they have to accomodate us.

BMW Z4 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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