BMW Z4 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

staryjary · August 2005

Z4 is assembled in South Carolina - for a virtual plant tour go here: http://www.bmwusfactory.com/build/ - it is fun! I guess that's what makes it possible to turn custom order quickly. What apparently happens is that dealers get specific allocations of cars in the manufacturing queue way in advance with some set of options that they think will move off the lot the quickest. But they can also change the options on any car in their existing queue on a minute notice. They also swap/trade the cars in the manufacturing queues with other dealers - it is like swapping cars that are already on a lot. So there is much flexibility to get exactly what you want as long as the sales person is willing to do it for you. What they can not apparently do is to change the number of cars in an existing queue or change the options on a car that is already being manufactured. All I can tell you that the combination of silver gray paint, black top and beige leather with wood trim is soooooo beautiful and there were none to have together with GPS and stick shift off the lots anywhere in the US. That was my issue. You can probably get a slightly better deal for a car on a lot at the end of a quarter but then you will not get exactly what you want.

As to the message from the dealer, I got it after the deal was already off - that's what is so strange about it. I can understand it during negotiations, but afterwards? What's there to gain?

gbontheroad · August 2005

Hi There! You guys seem to be real experts on this. While you are still at it i was hoping i could get some advise from you.

I am looking to lease a Z4 2.5 (on the lot car, manual transmission, includes auto roof & heated leather seats; rest all pretty much standard). The dealer i went to was offering a 299/Month lease for 2 years and 10K miles every year, with a 2.5 K down payment and all the usual upfront costs.

Do you guys think it's a good deal? I have not really negotiated any thing yet. What are the parameters you think i can talk to them on and what more can i get?

Any advise would be really helpful

Thanks

flycaster · August 2005

I'm no expert when it comes to leasing, but I did go through the learning curve as I was strongly considering leasing. However, I recently changed my mind.

The two year lease may be a good deal, but the best way to lease a car is to first negotiate your buying price and then to make sure that the lease is based on the bank's money factor, not what the dealer is setting. With the dealer setting up the lease there doesn't seem to be much room for negotiation. So, you're paying what they want you to pay. Also, with a 2 year lease, you'll have to pay all kinds of charges again when you go to lease your next car after two years. I don't know, but for me, I just can't handle paying out interest and charges, so I'm going to buy and keep the car for at least 4 years (hey, it is free of any repair/maintanence charges for the first 4 years) maybe longer. I guess it all depends on your cash flow and if you really want a new car every 2 to 3 years. I've got a 2002 325i and 2000 Pathfinder SE, both in excellent condition with low miles. Love them both and could live with them for a long time. However, as I got the "retirement toy bug," I'm going to sell the PF and get a Z4...hopefully, at the best price. Good luck.

gbontheroad · August 2005

Thanks Flycaster: I see where you are coming from. I took some of your ideas and decided to go for a 3 year lease in place of two. I also negotiated again but still with the lease payments as i was not too good at deriving the lease payments from the sale price.

I got another deal from a dealer in NJ she is offering me a 2.5 with auto transmission and auto roof. The deal is for 3800 down (all inc) and 331 every month for 36 months.

what say you?

gregjohnson · August 2005

I know nothing about leases, but karmic balance is maintained by the folks over in Car_man, "Lease Questions - Ask Here" #23064, 16 Aug 2005 6:27 am , who have forgotten more than most will ever know.

-Greg

vijayfx35 · August 2005

Ok, to cut it short, I drove a manual 2.5 (sports package) last week and fell in love with it. Here's what I'm looking for:

sterling grey, black top
aluminium or graphite trim
sports package
xenons
auto soft top

got an offer from carsdirect for $33800, and from fleerates.com for $33344. Is this good? MSRP for this on bmwusa.com is ~ $33800. Any inputs appreciated. Also, if anyone can recommend a dealer they worked with, please let me know.

looking to buy by the end of this month.

kyfdx · August 2005

Are you sure about the MSRP?

I think a Z4 starts at $34,995...

vijayfx35 · August 2005

That is MSRP plus the options I added

kyfdx · August 2005

Try again.... You quoted an MSRP that is lower than the base...?

vijayfx35 · August 2005

shoot, its the bmw fever, sorry

MSRP on bmwusa is $38200. hope i got it correct this time.

flycaster · August 2005

I'm not a lease specialist, but here are some figures that go into the leasing equation. These are numbers that I got for July and those for Aug may be different. The MF for the 2 and 3 year lease are .001 and .002, and the residual % (15K miles) was 63 and 56 (add 3% to each if you go for 10K miles). The dealer doesn't have to give you the bank's MF, he can ask for more. It is up to you to get try to get the base MF, if needs be. BTW, there is a big difference in the interest over 2 years vs 3 years, in favor of the 2 year. But, if you know the agreed selling price (and the other charges), you should be able to figure out the $ differences between the leases. Here's the lease formula I use: http://www.leaseguide.com/formula.html, just plug in your numbers.

kyfdx · August 2005

There is a $2500 BMW to dealer incentive on this model... I'd think you could get another $2000-$2500 off MSRP on top of that.... It looks like you are right in that range....

Planning on leasing or buying?

regards,
kyfdx

vijayfx35 · August 2005

Thanks for the reply, kyfdx. Planning on buying w/loan. Any suggestions on where I can get the best rates?

Also, the deal I got is from fleetrates.com. I'm up in north California. Any ideas of what strategy I can use to get this rate from a local dealer. Is that a good idea at all?

kyfdx · August 2005

Just let dealers know you have that offer, but would rather go with a local dealer if they can match it.. If you hit enough of them, you should find one that will go for it..

I'd try my local credit union or bank.... get a solid number for an APR, and then when you get to the finance office, tell them you already have financing... Most dealers will beat your rate, if they can...

Interest rates have been jumping around.. I'm thinking anything in the low 5% range would be decent for 60 months...

regards,
kyfdx

vijayfx35 · August 2005

thanks again. i'm coming from 5 years in a honda civic, so i'm all pumped about this. anything you guys recommend as options. i don't care for the premium pack or navigation, but loved the handling of the sports package. anything else i could look for?

already getting sports, xenons, auto soft top.

kyfdx · August 2005

Sport and xenon with power top... that is all you need....

staryjary · August 2005

I just want to point out that depending on the configuration, the difference in incentive between 2.5 and 3.0 makes the two vehicles almost cost the same. Consider this MSRP based compare of the identical configurations:

2.5 - $34,995
Premium Package - $3,200
Sports Package - $1,300
Leather - $1,150
Premium Sound - $875
Incentive - ($2,500)
$39,020 Total

3.0 - $41,995
Premium Package - $2,400
Sports Package - $1,200
Leather - $0
Premium Sound - $0
Incentive - ($4,500)
$41,095 Toatl

All other options cost the same in both so I did not include them here. So the difference between 2.5 and 3.0 in this case is only $2.075 and with 3.0 you get all this extra power. This is why I got 3.0 - simply a better deal with the way the incentives are structured IMHO (cah flow issues aside

)

kyfdx · August 2005

I agree... If you want a lot of the goodies, the price spread is nowhere near the $7K difference in base price.... or even the $5K spread after incentives...

This is true of the 3-series as well.. a $6K spread in base price, but comparably equipped, the difference is only about $3K.. It holds up somewhat with the 525i and 530i, as well...

But, if you don't need leather, power seats, upgraded stereo, etc.... You can save a lot of money by going with the 2.5 model...

regards,
kyfdx

staryjary · August 2005

Well, you could save even more by buying Hyundai (could not resist) :shades:

vijayfx35 · August 2005

the way i look at it, the 3.0 is great, but all i really wanted with the 2.5 was xenons, sports package and auto soft top. it all really depends on what you want. to me, the extra power is not worth it, but each to his own. besides, the 2.5 is no sloth.

just wanted to add that i've been researching cars for 6 months now before making this decision. maybe i should have driven the z4 earlier. drove the 350zr, mustang v8, and the s2000, and while the'yre all well powered, the bimmer was just too perfect in every area

delawarez · August 2005

First thanks to all posters...info has been a great help. Just ordered a Z4 which will be ready in mid september. Jet Black 2.5, Beige Leather, wood trim, premium. MSRP 39345, INV 36045 price 35,000. Happy with the deal because it's with my local dealer and I have typically had to drive a couple of hours to get any kind of competitive price. My question is this....I put down a deposit....what happens if the incentive is dicontinued? Will the dealer be increasing my price? Or on the flipside what happens if the unlikely event occurs which the incentive is raised? Any thoughts appreciated.....Thanks!

kyfdx · August 2005

If the incentive is dropped (not likely), I doubt the dealer will honor your price.. He should, unless he made it contingent on the incentive, but most aren't going to take a loss on that.. In the case they don't follow through, I'm sure they will return your deposit..

If the incentive increases? Well.. it is a dealer incentive.. so, technically, you aren't entitled to it.. You agreed to $35K...

You could ask for a lower price, though.... and, I surely would..

regards,
kyfdx

cholla · August 2005

I am looking at purchasing from a dealer a CPO 2004 Z4 2.5 w/ auto, Premium, Sport, Convenience and metalic. It has approximately 18,000 miles. They are asking $37K which is high but I am trying to determine what is a reasonable offer to make the dealer. A new 2004 w/ these options had an MSRP of $42,670 and invoice of $39,100. Since BMW was offering incentives in 2004 for as high as $5,000 on the 2.5 I am assuming that someone could have bought it for about $35,100 (- $5,000 + $1,000 from invoice). The TMV for dealer retail is about $35,032 and for CPO is $37,838. These prices seem way out of line. Knowing that I could have purchased for $35,100 how should I factor in depreciation and CPO?

kyfdx · August 2005

Not an expert....

But, I think somewhere around $32K would be the right price...

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · August 2005

An expert opinion... A similar car from earlier this month..

Real World Trade-In Values

staryjary · August 2005

If the incentive goes away then your discount based on the incentive will go away - that is fair. But you do have a choice of walking away in my opinion since this is not your fault and the deposit should be refunded.

If the incentive is increased then roll up your negotiating sleeves because should you walk away from the deal (same reason as above) then they get stuck with a custom configured car that may be difficult to offload. If they give you the entire increase in incentive then they still make exactly same amount of money as they did before.

When I custom ordered my Z4 I had that discussion with the dealer and he did agree with the above points - at least verbally

. That is why he wanted me to order on the beginning of the month to ensure delivery during the same month - incentives are revisited by BMW on a monthly basis.

BTW, that beige lather with wood trim is soooooooo nice!

cholla · August 2005

Thanks, that verifies some of my thoughts on what to offer.

flycaster · August 2005

My local dealer said he can get the z4 I want from another dealer, but it will cost about $300 for the shipping. Does this sound right? Thanks.

kyfdx · August 2005

That is reasonable, if it is over an hour away.... Are they driving it, or flatbedding it?

flycaster · August 2005

Flat-bedding

kyfdx · August 2005

Sounds reasonable... truck and driver... they don't work for free....

regards,
kyfdx

topspin628 · August 2005

How does the Z4 work in a bit of snow and slush with all seasons? I test drove a 3.0 today but it was an auto and it lacked the "thrill" of the S2000 I just drove. True the S2000 was a bit loud with the top up and very stiff and race car like. The Z drove very similarly to my old 330i. I was looking for a bit more edge so maybe the stick will do the trick. Is it a short throw? The Honda was a slight flick of the wrist which I really liked. But the refinment of the Z4 was clear.

Thank you

nyccarguy · August 2005

Well if you're looking for your Z4 to be your daily driver in New England and are looking for something with a bit more edge, Try driving a Z4 3.0i with 6 speed manual transmission and Sport Package. While the SP equipped Z4 does come with High Performance 3 season rubber, you should consider a second set of rims with 4 snow tires for the winter months.

kyfdx · August 2005

Your biggest problem... assuming you get winter tires (you'll have to have them), will be ground clearance.. The front air dam sits about 3" off the ground... With proper tires, you can deal with traction issues, but if the snow is deep at all, you'll be plowing it with the front end...

regards,
kyfdx

cholla · August 2005

Does anyone have info on the continuation of the rebates on Z4s past 8/31? Any chance they will increase?

staryjary · August 2005

I do not think that this is reasonable because you are already paying for destination and you have no way of knowing what is the business arrangement between the two dealers. I would not pay it. This was one a the reasons why I opted out to order a car straight from a factory.

madabushi · August 2005

Hi Folks,
I am thinking of buying a used base model 03 z4 3.0. Its stickshift, manual top and no options. Do you think the transmission and the fact that its got no options will affect its resale value significantly 3-4 years down the line?
In general, what features or lack thereof (high besides mileage, accident and the obvious ones) cause the owner to take a big hit when trying to sell it.
Thanks

kyfdx · August 2005

I'd say the lack of a power top will be the biggest problem.. You'll always find someone that wants a stick-shift in a 2-seater...

It isn't some weird color, is it?

madabushi · August 2005

kyfdx,
No, its black with red leather interior.
On a separate note:
1) Should the incentives being handed out for new cars lower the price of used cars correspondingly?
2) Do edmunds or KBB trade-in, pvt.party and retail prices for 03/04 Z4's take into account the incentives that were/are handed out?
If not, what do you think is a reasonable way to come up with a reasonable price for the car?
Thanks for all your help in this forum. Truly insightful advice.

kyfdx · August 2005

Red leather.. nice... See? not stripped.. leather is optional... That is a nice color combo, if you aren't in some place really, really hot...

1) You would think so... Any time someone buys a late model used car, they are comparing it to the price of a new one.. If it isn't appreciably cheaper, then new is the way to go..

2) The prices you see on-line should be based on auction sales... Sometimes by the time they are published, they are out of date..... or, just plain wrong..

Didn't you say they were asking $27K? That isn't a bad price.. If this is the car you want, bargain as hard as you can, and take whatever you get...

regards,
kyfdx

vsaxena · August 2005

How much are you paying for the 2003 3.0?

I think the base model of a premium car will have a much smaller resale market. The vast majority of folks buying used luxury roadster want the following (in decreasing order of priority).

1. The fun aspect of driving a performance vehicle
2. The bells and whistles which come with a luxury vehicle

A "stripper" 3.0 will fail the #2 test. It is already $8K more expensive than the 2.5. A value conscious buyer will instead go for the 2.5. A person going for the 3.0 will want the bells and whistles, especially basic stuff like a power top.

Send me an email via my profile if you want to chat more. Also look up Ebay Auction 4571832033.

madabushi · August 2005

kyfdx & vsaxena,
I have given up on the 27K car since I didn't like the fact that it was bare bones for the same reasons vsaxena mentioned.
I am looking at a fully loaded Sterling Grey 03 Z4 3.0 for $29K. Its got 36K miles on it unfortunately but it has the prem, sport, convenience packages. Carfax is clean.
What do you guys think?
vsaxena.. your email address is private. Cant email you directly.

Thanks

vsaxena · August 2005

My email address should be public. Check again. Alternatively send an email to my edmunds user name at gmail.

Regarding the 03 Z4: Check the inservice date to see when the warranty was activated. You can call BMW to do that and also get a list of the factory options. The price you are being quoted is close to the factory residual on this car assuming the $48K MSRP for a 36month/30K lease.

Have you considered a lease? A new car with the incentives will have very attractive lease payments. You can typically get one at $500 to $1000 over dealer cost. You will not have to worry about warranty or maintenance issues. If your horizon is 3 years, it is a great option.

The Z4 is a new model with limited data about long term reliability. Since you are cost conscious, do factor in the fact that an out of warranty car *CAN* have large repair costs which can easily blow away any savings you had versus leasing a new car.

flycaster · September 2005

Hopefully this will lead to an increae in dealer incentives and/or rebates. So far, I haven't seen any Z4 postings to this effect, yet.

peakpro · September 2005

True...but production is also down.

I do not think incentives will increase. It is interesting that Carsdirect shows no dealers incentives (as of today). They are usually first.

cholla · September 2005

Are the 16" chrome rims for a Z4 2.5 a standard option w/ no charge, an additional option or a dealer add on. If an option or add on what would be a reasonable price? The dealer is telling me it is an option ($2,000) but I do not find it identified anywhere on web sites as an option. Thanks.

kyfdx · September 2005

Chrome wheels are a dealer accessory.... If they are charging $2K, then they aren't giving you any credit for the wheels they are taking off..

So, that is pretty expensive... but, typical for dealer accessories..

I have to say.. chrome wheels don't sound like a good look for a Z4.. I'd spend my $2K elsewhere... the stock wheels are pretty nice looking...

regards,
kyfdx

flycaster · September 2005

Been in the market for a new z4 2.5. Over the phone, car unseen, one of the dealers came up with a $300 under invoice for a Black, Premium pkg, leatherette for $35,970 (invoice $36,210).

Do you think the selling price is right, or should I negotiate for a better price? How much lower would be appropriate?

Edit: OK, just saw that BMW is continuing with their $2500 dealer incentives on the z4 2.5. So, the question now becomes how low should I try to go to still get the car at a good "buyer's price," but yet not screw up the deal?

kyfdx · September 2005

$2500 incentive? I'd be looking for $1300-$2000 under invoice...

They don't have incentives for no reason.... the cars aren't selling well, and it is late in the model year...

And... I don't think you can screw up the deal.. At $300 under invoice, their gross profit is $2200... No matter how many bridges you burn, I'm sure you can hang your head and come back and get it for that number... as long as you are nice about it..

regards,
kyfdx

flycaster · September 2005

Thanks, that's what I thought. Now I have to make the decision whether or not I should wait until the end of the month to make the final negotiations. I figure that the end of the month is always good and the end of September is the end of a fiscal quarter, all of which should, theoretically, lead to a better deal for me to take the car off the lot. Of course, the car may not be available then, but now that I know how they are dealing (down to a few hundred under invoice) and I'm not locked into color (just want premium, auto trans, and will take leatherette), I just might take the chance. Any opinion on waiting until the end of September?

BMW Z4 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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