2007 Toyota Camry

307web · June 2005

They could be standard, but even if they are not, they should be easily available as an option since I think dealers are now less reluctant to order side airbags for a few the cars they keep in stock.

i_luv_toyota · June 2005

Toyota's on a roll! The beautiful 2005 Avalon and now this new Camry. It looks absolutely sensational. It looks like it's going to send the Honda Accord further down the sales charts....

If Toyota keeps this up, the next Tundra/Sequoia is going to look absolutely awesome!

cammer2 · June 2005

Although it seems likely that the I4 could be bumped another 10 hp or so, I have a hard time imagining Toyota simultaneously improving EPA ratings significantly - particularly since the 4-cylinder just improved its EPA ratings this year. EPA ratings of 28/38 puts it in line with Accord hybrid - which doesn't seem plausible. I'd guess IF there's an improvement, it will be incremental - maybe 25/35. (That's not to say I wouldn't LOVE IT if the new Camry's EPA figures came in that high)

Anyone have anything concrete?

nippononly · June 2005

that Toyota managed to extract such good mpg from the Avalon's 3.5 was by adding dual VVT-i, which I imagine would find its way into the '07 Camry's V-6 (whichever one they use, the 3.3 or the 3.5) and probably help out there too. The question is one of money: will Toyota add this feature (adding cost) to its 4-cylinder Camrys? if not, I doubt mileage will improve much from its current level for the I-4s. In that case, we would see the spread between 4- and 6-cyl models narrow. And I would hope the mileage figure for the hybrid would significantly outstrip both. I am still curious to know what Toyota's hybrid strategy will be for Camry: same-priced as the V-6s, or more money? More power than the V-6, or less? I am assuming it will be a gas-saver set-up, not a performance one as in the Accord hybrid. But who knows, maybe they will want to go head to head with Accord on this...

chris65amg · June 2005

Other than that Camry is gorgeous! I'm starting to like Toyota's styling, which would have been generally unthinkable 5 years ago. I bet you a dollar that Toyota will be able to improve the fuel economy, but only by a point or so, and the hp boost would probably only be 5 or so. Maybe 10. I think that Toyota is following a trend, as it has been found out that polarizing (or pretty) designs sell better. Look at the 300. I think that if this Camry doesn't take a price hike and they have side airbags and ABS standard, then they'll have a winner. Poor Hyundai though, they tried to make the new Sonata look boring. A lot more car buyers don't want to compromise style with their cars, and I'm glad that that is extended into the midsize sedan market.

callmedrfill · June 2005

Considering the Camry currently gits 24/34, I see a large jump in economy (3-4MPG), with a small (5-10HP) bump in HP.

As Toyota has said many times, people don't buy Camry to get HP. Honda has also learned that HP is not a cure-all.

A sound investment is what's sells. And Toyota is on this fuel economy kick, with hybrids and all.

The 4-cyl engines need to stay 4-5MPG ahead of the six.

The six is gonna have to be as efficient as the current 4 (24/34), just to stay ahead of the more powerful Avalon 3.5 EPA (22/31), since the Avalon should be 40-50HP stronger, the Camry should be more efficient.

So I say the 4 is 28/38 (29/39 MT), the 6 23/33.

DrFill

corvette · June 2005

28/38 is Corolla or Accord Hybrid territory--I don't think it can be done with a conventional gasoline powertrain with nominal horsepower for the class. The Camry six may be a detuned version of the Avalon's, but I don't think it will achieve markedly better gas mileage. They might do something like detune the Avalon's engine but give it shorter gearing in the Camry, reducing any fuel economy gains but improving performance.

The big complaint I have about engine choices in this class (Camry, Accord, Altima) is that the fours are not quite powerful enough, and the sixes are too powerful for a FWD car, leading to torque steer and traction problems. A smooth 200-ish HP engine with plenty of torque seems to be the sweet spot for a ~3200 lb family sedan. Above that, I would want RWD for ease of use.

chris65amg · June 2005

Having 28/38 wold be very unlikely for a Camry 4. That's Corolla territory, and I seriously doubt that even Toyota could squeeze that much out. They might get 25/35. I think that the old 3L that they use in non SE Camry's is about 210 hp. I also think that the 3.5L v6 will be detuned to below 250 hp but will get slightly better mileage (maybe 1 point above Avalon)

callmedrfill · June 2005

the Corolla engine is almost 4 years old.

Toyota has done great things and learned a lot about fuel efficiency in that time, and it's an important selling point these days.

And the Camry gets 24/34 now, so adding 1 MPG doesn't give enough of a reason to swap Camrys.

I'll cut a deal with you. Add 10HP and 2 MPG. Better aerodynamics, gearing can net mileage gains despite higher power.

Toyota likes to burn the candle at both ends.

The Camry is more important than the Avalon, so I doubt they will let the Avalon powertrain be both more powerful and more efficient for long, since that would choke their Golden Goose.

Knowing 'Yota, when they released the Avalon, they still had some tricks up their sleeve for the Camry to make it just as desireable.

DrFill

zup · June 2005

does this mean the new 2006 Sonata (which I'm planning to purchase) will be eclipsed by the new Camry? I hope not, since I need a new car as soon as possible, my '92 Accord is falling apart!

307web · June 2005

There is always something newer and better coming later. After the Camry, the all-new Accord comes out for 2008.

petl · June 2005

Newer, yes. Better, who knows? Yet to be determined.

alpha01 · June 2005

I really still feel that its a distinct possibility that the Camry V6 will not be a detuned Avalon 3.5L, but rather Toyota's 3.0L currently used only in the Lexus GS. That 245 hp engine is plenty powerful, and very efficient. Using it would mean that the Camry V6 would still be more efficient than the Avalon, and not quite as powerful, preserving the Avalon's premium status. Toyota could also keep the Camry XLE V6 distanced from the next Lexus ES, which is in all likelihood going to use the 3.5L, since the ES350 name has already been trademarked. Otherwise, Im not quite sure what the purpose of that all new 3.0L is, since its not used anywhere else (well... for North American market vehicles). I really hope Toyota dumps the 3.3L, and starts phasing in the new engine family to the Sienna, RX, and Solara as well.

In terms of the 4 cylinder, using Variable Valve Timing on both the intake and exhaust sides can easily net 10 hp and a few MPG, me thinks. Coupled with a slick shape and a smart transmission, I think we'll see something like 26/36 for the next 4 cylinder, with hp about 170-175 and twist in the 165 foot pounds range.

~alpha

chris65amg · June 2005

I think that it is possible that the Camry will use the 3L from the GS300, but a lot of the competition (think Altima, Malibu, LaCrosse, the Fusion after it gets changed to the Duratec 35, and I believe the new Sonata) (will) )have larger displacement engines, all of the listed with 3.5 or 3.6L engines. If they do use the 3L, it will probably be in the Camry V6 styles. I have a hunch that the SE and Solara will get a more powerful V6, probably that Avalon engine detuned to around 265 hp.

Hmm. Since the Solara is counted in Camry sales, it wouldn't be off topic to talk about that.... anyone know anything about the next-gen?

alpha01 · June 2005

I understand your point, but look at it this way: none of the competition you mentioned (Altima, Malibu, [cant count the Fusion b/c 3.5L isnt happening until 2008, really], etc) sells nearly as many copies as the MAIN competitor, Accord, which does just fine with its 3.0L unit.

I agree, the Camry SE and Solaras should (and I hope they will) use a more powerful engine than the LE/XLE trim lines.

Next generation Solara is a long time away....

~alpha

307web · June 2005

I don't think Toyota needs to get into HP wars with the Camry vs other cars. Camry buyers want a smooth and quiet engine and they would want it to use less gas than an Avalon and to have a competitive price.
People are not buying Camrys to drag race Altimas.
There is no point to raise power by a dramatic amount when there isn't a real shortage of power on the V6 models as is other than just to say that other car has x horsepower so a Camry should have the same or more "just because."

They need to be focusing on the transmission/engine hesitation issues and try to make the Camry the most refined riding/driving car you can get for the money.

chris65amg · June 2005

Good thoughts, but there are a lot of people out there who will buy a car on hp alone, and I believe that Toyota wants to boost the sales of its V6 Camrys. 3 out of every 4 Camrys sold are of the 4 cylinder variety, and probably because the standard V6 only makes 210 where most non-domestic (think little or no rebates) cars have 230-250. Chevy sells Malibu V6's partly because they're oh so much cheaper than Camry V6's and not sacrificing too much power (Malibu:200, Camry:210) Soon the Fusion and Milan will come with their *ahem* modestly powered engines and they will also be cheaper. That's what's stealing Camry V6 sales, so I'd imagine Toyota is in no way opposed to higher power. They have to get rid of that old 3L engine; the Camry is the only car that uses it!

"People are not buying Camrys to drag race Altimas"
Uh, they might in an SE! And they'd lose!

307web · June 2005

People who buy cars on hp alone, don't buy Camrys. They buy Altimas SE V6s or they may buy a Subaru WRX or an Evo.
There are other cars better suited for "hard driving."

beluvian · June 2005

Do you have a link to a photo that you could post? I would like to see what the new Camry will look like. I agree, the 2005 Avalon is a big improvement over the previous generation.

nippononly · June 2005

Surely the 3.0 in the new GS is designed for longitudinal applications, since the GS is RWD? Which makes it highly unlikely Toyota will use it for the next Camry. Not to mention, as everyone has made much of here, Toyota has already trademarked the use of the ES350 name for the next ES. And they have also said the next generation will be the last to be a rebadged Camry. Adding two and two, we get the conclusion that the next Camry will use the 3.5 V-6 as an optional engine. Now whether or not they will have two different optional V-6s is a different story - personally, I think this was an accidental evolution for the current Camry, and they will not keep things that complicated for the next gen. But I could be wrong. Wouldn't it be easier for them just to have a detuned version of the 3.5 for LE's, and a higher-power version for XLE/SE? I am sure the ES will get near 300 hp since the Avalon gets 280 from it already. The Camry could do 235/270 hp versions (just to give Avalon the edge for the hi-po version, and match current Accord for the lo-po one).

As for the four, I am sure it will hit an extra 10 hp and an extra 2 mpg, city and highway, as someone above postulated. Personally, I would hope for more mpg. But it certainly would not be shabby if it hit those targets.

And on a sidenote, I sure would hope that traction control will be standard on those V-6s, along with side curtain airbags and maybe stability control.

cammer2 · June 2005

Just a thought ..

Realized that the 2006 RAV will be arriving this fall - probably a good 3 or 4 months ahead of the Camry. I would think the characteristics of the 4-cylinder should provide some clue as to hp/efficiency.

Having said that, I have no idea what they'll use as the new 6.

The 3.0 in the GS seems like a good fit to me also. I was under the impression that the 3.0 (GS), 3.5 (Avalon) and 4 liter (4Runner) are all related. If that's the case, I see no reason why the 3.0 wouldn't fit in the Camry. Am I mistaken?

carzzz · June 2005

IMO, The Gen 6 camry will definitely increase the HP, which should be at least comparable or above both Alti/cord. They already have built it as "sportier" looking machine, why not put something more powerful under the hood and attract younger buyers. Before the introduction of 2005 Avalon, many youngers are consider it as a old people's car like Buick, however, the 2005 Avalon changed the prespective of "Avalon", just my 2 cents.
Toyota should of put the 3.3L on 2005+ Camry V6 XLE along with SE

jchan2 · June 2005

look nice. A little bit of 2006 IS, A little bit of Camry and a little bit of Avalon all rolled into one.

Honda better have its ducks in a row for the upcoming MMC and FMC.

bklynguy · June 2005

"Honda better have its ducks in a row for the upcoming MMC and FMC."

The Accord is their bread & butter so I have a feeling that Honda will bring out their "big guns" for the MMC and especially for the FMC in 2007.

I can't wait for some better pictures of the next Camry.

jchan2 · June 2005

It'll be interesting to see which one sells more, since it seems both companies are bringing out the "big guns" for the next generations.

alpha01 · June 2005

As stated by cammer in a subsequent post, the engine family that Toyota is currently introducing breaks the tradition of offering different engines for different drive layouts. The family was introduced in the 4Runner as rear and four wheel drive, but eventually, the family will be propogated much as Nissan has propogated its VQ in so many applications. The engines in the same family as the 4.0L in the 4Runner, Tacoma, and Tundra are the 2.5L to debut with the new Lexus IS (RWD and AWD), the 3.0L currently only in the GS (RWD and AWD) and the 3.5L currently only in the Avalon (FWD). In the future, once the new V8 is introduced, the 3.5L will supplant or adjunct the 3.0L in the GS so it will then be in a RWD application as well.

~alpha

lmacmil · June 2005

"I don't think Toyota needs to get into HP wars with the Camry vs other cars."

I think you're right. The average Camry buyer is 9 years older than the average Accord buyer (according to JD Power). That average buyer isn't going to care about another 20 hp or so, they're more interested in a couple more mpg. Nissan needs to distinguish itself from Toyota/Honda and they've chosen horsepower to be that differentiator.

I also don't think Lexus is going to dilute the image of one of their premium cars (GS) by putting that Lexus engine in the Camry. Everyone knows the ES and Camry are basically the same vehicle so it's not a problem for them to share an engine.

Btw, anyone see the new C&D? The Avalon won their $30K family sedan comparison.

alpha01 · June 2005

"I also don't think Lexus is going to dilute the image of one of their premium cars (GS) by putting that Lexus engine in the Camry"

Well, then why did Lexus introduce a GS that tops 50K in AWD form but offers only 245 horses, when the Avalon starts at 26K and offers 280?

It depends on the market and segment and I dont think anything is out of the question.

~alpha

claudius753 · June 2005

I don't care if Toyota doesn't increase HP at all, even 160 hp with a 5 speed auto will be peppy enough for me, and mpg at 35+ would be a very interesting alternative to my current considerations, a 06 Civic or a 06 Mazda 3s

biker4 · June 2005

Even as rich as Toyota is, it can't afford not to share engines between models. It might not drivetrain whore as much as Nissan does with the VQ, but you'll see the same block/design in most applications. A couple different version of an I4, then V6s of 2.5, 3.0 and 3.5 displacement and then some V8. The V6s will not be RWD only, they could be used in FWD cars too.
The only diff between the 3.0 engine in the GS and the 07 Camry will be the badge on top of the engine cover (and maybe some software tricks).

lmacmil · June 2005

"Well, then why did Lexus introduce a GS that tops 50K in AWD form but offers only 245 horses, when the Avalon starts at 26K and offers 280?"

Because they think their customer is sophisticated enough not to equate higher hp with "better." I don't think (and let's not forget, we're all just expressing our opinions here) too many people are cross-shopping the GS and the Avalon. They appeal to totally different demographics. I'm sure there aren't many potential Lexus buyers out there thinking "why should I pay $50K for 245hp when I can get 280hp for only 60% of that price."

I guess we'll all find out in 10 months or so.

motownusa · June 2005

Remember, the new 3.0L 245 Hp engine in the GS is a stopgap measure. I believe the 07 GS will get the 3.5L engine and be renamed the GS350. I doesn't make sense for Lexus to have a more powerful IS than GS

dudleyr · June 2005

I thought the GS had a V-8 for the power hungry. The 6 is for those who don't play that numbers game, and want to save a little cash.

alpha01 · June 2005

You are missing my point and contradicting your own comments.

Imacmil, Your initial statement:
"I also don't think Lexus is going to dilute the image of one of their premium cars (GS) by putting that Lexus engine in the Camry."

And my point was essentially the following question: How would the GS and Camry sharing a 3.0L engine be any greater dilution of the Lexus brand than the cheaper Avalon trumping the GS300 in power and torque? I simply posit that it wouldnt. Toyota apparently saw little to no risk of brand dilution in having the Avalon as more powerful than a 50K Lexus GS300, which leads me to think that it would not be a major issue if the Camry uses the 3.0L engine as well.

I agree with your statement that most people probably arent cross shopping the Avalon and GS. So, I also doubt they will cross shop the Camry and GS, further supporting my supposition, and pointing away from brand dilution should the GS and Camry use the 3.0L.

And as motownusa stated, the GS's use of the 3.0L is interim in nature. That engine will likely be in Toyota's North American arsenal for some time, but not in the GS any longer than the 2007 or 2008 model year.

Again, I certainly don't KNOW which V6 will appear in the Camry. My hope is that it is the 3.0L iteration of the new engine family, which I think will be a tremendous mix of power and efficiency. It would certainly be great if the 3.5L could be the the V6 in the SE model. Worst case, IMO, is that the current 3.3L (really just a version of the 3.0L introduced on the 1992 Camry in late '91) soldiers on with no increases in efficiency or power.

~alpha

motownusa · June 2005

The 4.3L V8 engine in the GS will be replaced by a 4.6L engine by MY 07 or 08 that should boost Horspower from 300 to around 350. The 4.3L engine "only" has about 300 HP, whereas the Infiniti M45 produces 335 and the BMW 545 produces 325 HP. All car makers including Toyota seems to be caught up in this Horsepower war. As long as they can keep MPG high and prices low I am all for it.

P.S. --- Somehow I get the feeling that high performance cars don't thrill you

jchan2 · June 2005

The GS is getting a hybrid version, which, seeing how Lexus did the RX400h, be geared towards better performance than really high MPG numbers...

dudleyr · June 2005

I like high performance cars, just think hp for its own sake is ridiculous. No acounting of transmision, vehicle weight, dynamics etc. I much prefer efficient, light and nimble to large and powerfull, but not much (if any) quicker. To me a Lotus Elise with less than 200 hp is far more desireable than a Mustang GT/ Vette etc.

That is why I like the 4-cyl manual tranny Camry. It is efficient, quick, fun to drive (thanks to manual) and has room for my kids. Best part is they go for not much over 16k. I enjoy not having to pay for equipment I would prefer not to have - sunroof, spoiler, auto trans etc. I would put the Accord in the same category, but it is a little more expensive, and it has a smaller trunk and no split folding rear seat.

I look forward to the new 4-cyl model. I would guess it will have nearly 170 hp and will get 25/35 mpg.

callmedrfill · June 2005

and 160HP, I don't see that being different enough of a redesign.

The difference will be more significant than that, and Toyota has learned from Honda that power doesn't sell to this class of buyer.

Toyota's fuel economy is hot now, so expect to see them keep up the momentum with 3MPG better, with a small bump in HP.

DrFill

nippononly · June 2005

I missed that, and thanks for the info! :-)

The GS is most likely getting the 3.0 this year because putting in the 3.5 would put it too near the 4.3's output. Toyota is being "squeezed from the top" in the Lexus division. In that light, it makes a lot more sense for the GS to get the 3.5 and the new 4.6 next year, and for Camry to then get the new 3.0 from the outset and keep it for 5 years.

I must say I am quite impressed if that is truly the plan. The new 3.0, while "only" putting out 245 hp, is very advanced technologically. For Camry to get it as the new optional engine for MY '07 is significant given Camry's mission and price.

Does anyone besides me think those fuzzy pics supposedly of the new Camry a ways back looked so much like the Avalon that they might just BE the Avalon, fuzzied up by someone at their home computer? If that really is the new Camry, then they have applied really nice styling to this model for the first time in a decade (IMO), but it looks too similar to Avalon.

My, how I DO love speculation!

alpha01 · June 2005

and also the photos that were shown of the Camry were allegedly taken on the sly at some exclusive Toyota event- thats why that centerpiece rose thing is in the middle of each picture. allegedly.

~alpha

jchan2 · June 2005

look a lot like the Avalon, but I think they're close, but I may be wrong.

Remember those original Sienna pictures from The Hollywood Extra that showed the Sienna having four swing out doors? That Sienna looks a lot different from the one Toyota sells now.

gpolt · June 2005

Is it safe to assume that the likelihood of a V6 married to a manual transmission [recall the '97 - '01 vintage] is slim and none?

If Toyota bothers to accomodate the limited number of economy-minded buyers (4 cyl 5 speed), how difficulty could it be to do the same for the benefit of the limited number of performance-minded buyers (6cyl, 5 speed)? Acura does [TL]; Honda does [Accord Coupe]; Mazda does [Mazda 6 "s" sedan, hatchback & wagon].

nippononly · June 2005

if Toyota EVER puts a V-6 and a manual shift together again for the Camry, I will eat my hat. That Camry V-6 manual in the last gen was CE trim only, wasn't it? And it never sold...in fact, I didn't know it hung in there until '01, I thought it was like a 2-year thing they quickly cancelled for lack of interest.

The question really is, where is the 6-speed automatic in Toyota's future? I don't think there is going to be one for the '07 Camry, but they should think about doing that for the Camry at some point.

On the flip side, does anyone think the '07 Camry will be the first one ever that is automatic-only? And hey Toyota, how about getting some tiptronic-style shifting in there for the auto? That is becoming increasingly popular - Hyundai for one has it on most automatic models. In a model labelled 'SE' for sport, you should really be able to order the shift yourself, even if you don't actually hit the clutch.

dudleyr · June 2005

Don't know about CE only for the V-6 and manual. An elderly lady in town drives one (hardly the target market) and it has factory leather. I dont think leather was available on a CE.

That would be horrible if the '07 was automatic only, but it would not suprise me.

lmacmil · June 2005

"How would the GS and Camry sharing a 3.0L engine be any greater dilution of the Lexus brand..."

A minor point: the GS and Camry never shared the same engine. The previous 3 liter was the in-line 6 used also in the IS.

Let's reconvene when the new Camry arrives and see what Toyota did.

307web · June 2005

There is rumor that the V6 will have 270HP. Maybe just the SEV6 or could be all V6s.
If that is true, then it will most likely be a detuned Avalon engine and the 2007 ES350 would then probably have 280+ HP.

maxamillion1 · June 2005

Had a V6 CE 5spd.in the first couple years....

Then they started selling V6LE 5spds.

coolguyky7 · June 2005

I remember those Sienna "spy pictures." They were actually of the Toyota WISH van sold in Japan I believe. However, it's not only the Hollywood Extra site that's showing those images and they are virtually indesputably a Camry. Even if one discounts the badging, look at the side profile of the car. It's a Camry.

jchan2 · June 2005

True, but the pictures could be waaaay off...

I remember speculation about the Sienna was that they were building a "Sport" model...

gettheedge · June 2005

Does anyone have a list of what the difference between the 2005 and 2006 Toyota Camry is?

2007 Toyota Camry

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