Honda Civic Sedan 2006

midnightcowboy · September 2005

"I wish the toyota dealers wherent thugs in Tulsa. I really hate to hear about folks paying msrp."

Then just drive north 47 miles to Mark Roberts in B'ville

dinosaur · September 2005

Yep, where you really see it is with the loss of the VP. I bought an '05 VP coupe a month ago for just over 12k. Not many options - but it has what I need, AC and a CD player. Great car - comfortable , fun to drive, and 42 mpg on the first 2500 miles. The price of a Civic with factory air just went through the roof. Like you, at that price I'd be looking hard at a Camry. This might be my last Civic.

w9cw · September 2005

My experience parallels yours. Once when I was in southern Germany - Friedrichshaven to be exact - I was at a stop light on the outskirts of town preparing to make a right turn. It was a beautiful summer day, and I had all of the windows down on the rental car. A young fellow in a car pulled up to the light to my left with his car stereo blaring - very loud. He looked over at me, nodded his head, and rolled up his windows. Very considerate . . . you know what would have typically happened here in the USA!

w9cw · September 2005

Side air bags/curtains are an option on the 2005 or 2006 Camry LE (around $650 I believe), but ABS is standard on all trim levels of the 2005 and 2006 Camry.

midnightcowboy · September 2005

Number 4, Scion Tc is the best on your short list. However, you will get much better mileage with the LX. Number 3 Mitsu should not even be considered; there is a reason the aren't selling and are being discounted.

wimzy · September 2005

i have a 2004 Civic VP coupe, automatic, (my first Honda) and was looking forward to the 2006 models to trade up to an LX or EX, but the $1100 price jump, smaller trunk, and raked windshield alll sent me to look at Scions again. I wonder if Honda increased the dealers' margins, so that the dealer can discount more aggresively, yet still leave pricing room for the coming Jazz/Fit?

midnightcowboy · September 2005

blueiedgod said:
"Auto trans is rated higher gas mileage than the manual. Auto 30/40. Manual 30/38.

Auto has higher final ratio than manual. Honda has been doing this for a few years now, because when people use cruise control in a manual, the car would lose steam on an uphill. Since the trans is manual, the cruise can not force the trans to shift. People were coplaining that cars were slowing down on uphills, so Honda lowered the final drive on mauals to combat loss of power when cruise control is used.

Oops wrong answer. The reason is that the 2006 has a wide ratio 5-speed automatic instead of a 4-speed in previous years. And the final highway cruising ratio (final drive times top gear ratio) is actually lower than the manual now giving it better highway mileage ( see message #1414). In the past with 5 speed manual the top gear had a lower ratio; no longer true!

YMMV,

MidCow

midnightcowboy · September 2005

Civic Reviews:

http://auto.consumerguide.com/Search/index.cfm/type/new/make/1604/name/Honda/

Here are some of the reviews you want

MidCow

midnightcowboy · September 2005

Yesroh said:

I think a lot of the little niceties will also add weight. If you add 20 pounds to a 3400 pound car you will not notice it as much as adding it to a 2700 pound car. The little niceties start adding up after a while to a fat small car. Also, most people in this segment are on a budget.
I would just get warmer pants. "

3400 to 3420 pounds = 20 equals 0.58 % ( percent) increase or a 0.0058 increase
2700 to 2740 pounds = 20 equals 0.74% (percent) increase or a 0.0074 increase

That is a difference of 0.16 %. That is truely phenomenal if a person can tell a difference that minute of difference :confuse: .

No I would agree if you are talking a couple of hundred pounds, but 20 pounds NO WAY!

MidCow

Whew! Maybe I need to go on a diet and lose some weight

yesroh · September 2005

Are the prices on the Accords for the V-6 or 4? I've seen '04 Accords LX here in the 15K range a few months ago, before the '06's came out. And Accord would be a closer match to a Civic...sportier ride...and the engine is much more potent. Although the horsepower on the Camry and Accord 4 cylinders are almost identical, I've seen comparison tests which show the Accord easily outperforming the Camry.
Just something to think about...it might be an easier trade off than going from a Civic to a Camry

yesroh · September 2005

I was speaking in generalities, but adding more weight to a lighter car would be more noticeable than adding more weight to a larger car. And then if you pile up a bunch of these together you'd have a more substantial weight gain. I think probably the better answer was my second one...if you are on a budget you probably won't pay extra for heated seats. I don't think the new Civics come with leather seats, do they? That's another answer. I don't see the need for heated seats if you have cloth seats.

yesroh · September 2005

You could try one of those large hood ornaments like the Ram trucks have. That should do the trick.

yesroh · September 2005

I love hatchbacks. Unfortunately you don't see too many in substantial, refined cars. They end up in mini-vans, SUV's, and econoboxes. What a wonderful way to increase interior space without increasing height, width, length, and weight! It might even make the car more stiff. I guess the 'sophisticated' American crowd (who can't afford gas) thinks they're just too upper class for such a device.

yesroh · September 2005

Sound deadening does add weight too...I looked into undercoating my old Civic Si back in 1991 to cut down the noise and they told me it would definitely calm the noise but it would also add 50 pounds. Some can be done in choice of materials and some just has to be added as extra weight. It's probably a weight issue...maybe even a space issue. Could be a cost issue too. You also need to figure that a smaller engine will make more noise than a large, lower-reving engine. Lots of factors to consider.
I was surprised back in July when I test drove an '05 Civic EX with a friend. The ride seemed as good as my '99 Accord. Maybe they've come a long way.

yesroh · September 2005

I thought we already established that. Even if both have a 5-speed, manual or auto, still the fact remains that the auto would automatically kick down in cruise mode or any mode where the manual would need to be shifted by the driver. It would also make passing more difficult in a manual.
Thanks

widow1 · September 2005

I have loyally bought Honda Civics over the years: I CRX, 2 Civic Si hatchbacks, 1 Civic HX, 2 Civic EX coupes, and 1 Civic EX sedan. Received a price quote on a new 2006 Civic of $800 over invoice. Went and drove one. All that Honda promised was there: a quieter i-vtec engine with more low end torque and more high end power, a silky shifting, more fuel efficient 5 speed automatic tranny, a multi-link rear suspension that delivered more nimble handling and increased the fun-to-drive factor, better brakes with discs all around, and a safer car with side air curtains and air bags standard. However, the styling was a radical departure with cab forward design, a rakishly sloped megawindshield, and a minivan size hood. The two tier, mega-size dash was a real turn off, and I drove down the road looking at the reflection of the dash on the rakishly slanted windshield. Wondered aloud how difficult it would be to keep this megawindshield defogged, how hot all that glass would make the cab of the car, and how I'd ever get all the piles of dust off the megadash. The placement of the parking brake to the left of the shifter arm just to get cupholder space in the center console makes for one uncomfortable drive when the driver's right knee rubs up against it. As much as I appreciate Honda's refinements of the Civic, the styling has turned me away from Honda for the first time ever. This decision to employ a futuristic styling to appeal to "Generation Y" was a betrayal of life long Civic customers. I immediately went searching for a 2005 Civic EX sedan in Honda dealers inventories. A few calls to Honda dealers in various parts of the country convinced me the 2005 is gone. Hello, Mazda 3. It will be years now before I can hope to get back into a redesigned Civic. Maybe by then all this Generation Y nonsense will have gone away.

obie2 · September 2005

I saw at least 25 2005 Civics at Power Honda in Valencia , Ca yesterday! (just outside of Los Angeles) Good Luck, Matt

sammin · September 2005

What is the invoice on a 2006 Civic EX? I haven't been able to find it.

Thanks

midnightcowboy · September 2005

You're answering the wrong question. You might want to reread.

midnightcowboy · September 2005

Actually you specifically mentioned 20 pounds, Not a generality. If the weight is several hundred pounds difference (200-300) then it is noticable. Your specific example of 20 pounds would not be noticable. That was my point.

Actually I wasn't addressing your second point; I just quoted your total response because it was short. And I agree with you on your second point.

Your answers are confusing. Sometimes you ask for information that a novice would ask and other times you provide infromation that one with some knowledge would provide. Are more than one person using your ID ?

Have a good day!

MidCow

widow1 · September 2005

Didn't get into the actual invoice price with my salesman who has been selling me Civics for 2 decades now. Assumed its about a $1600 mark up car as before or near that which means invoice is right at 18 grand. Just asked if they'd sell me one at $800 over right out of the box to which the dealer agreed. Then the drive in the cab forward design with the mega-windshield, mega-dash replete with hills and valleys and digital, not analog, speedo soured me on the 2006 despite its refinements. Dealer could not find me a 2005 on a dealer locate in his region and subsequent phone calls to dealers east/west, north/south convinced me I was too late. Buy in the Midwest. Dealers will come off the sticker on a car right out of the box and my dealer has a $0 dealer doc fee ( or be patient and wait a few weeks for them to start piling up on dealer lots and buy one for $400 over). Business practices are much less sharper here. No additional Dealer Mark Ups like on the coasts and huge, mega dealer's fees to be abused by and some salesman actually stay at dealerships for many years - much reduced revolving door employment.

307web · September 2005

Kind of ridiculous, melodramatic post worrying about defoggers and the few seconds it wold take to wipe "piles of dust" on a compact econocar.

sammin · September 2005

Thanks; being from the Midwest, I know, but now living on the East coast I need to play accordingly.

I have a really dumb question...when negotiating pricing, giving offers, etc...should that include or not include the $550 destination charge...same both ways..when they give me a price, is that with our without destination?

I know the EX retails at $19,060 + $550 destination, so $19,610. Dealer junk fees aside, I wasn't sure how to handle destination in the negotiation process, since it seems like it is factory assigned.

Also, another tricky issueI printed out a $200.00 off coupon from a local dealers website to present before test driving do you think this is going to help or hurt the negotiating process?

My test drive is at high noon tmw.

Thanks to all that answer.

backy · September 2005

Destination charge is a non-negotiable fee; there is no markup on it for the dealer.

yesroh · September 2005

I don't understand...

yesroh · September 2005

Nope, just me. I've been told I'm a bit double-minded. Now I have another witness!!!
I have some novice and some more indepth knowledge. I know a difference of 100 pounds can be felt in an Accord because the ride improves every time I fill up my tank. Honda decided not to put a moonroof on their Accord Hybrids because of the weight gain too. Some times I wonder why they are so picky but then...I am a competitive cyclist and I know how picky I am sometimes. Losing a tiny bit of weight won't help much, but if you lose a tiny bit of weight 20 times it does make a difference. A pound her, a pound there...it adds up.

yesroh · September 2005

Hey kids!
It's a little too early in the game. You know that in the next few months all the car magazines will have piles of tests and comparisons and so will Consumer Reports (Car and Driver probably don't care about the flat windshield) and then you can get a more complete picture without having to put down almost 20K. And by then the prices will be lower. Every now and then a car manufacturer looks like they have a winner until you crawl in and give it a spin and all of those nice things just don't work together as well as you thought they would. That sporty hood drives you nuts after a few hundred miles of driving and not being able to see the rest of the car...that sporty engine is too loud...the nice seats are too soft...too firm....whatever! I think we all need to wait a few months and see how this new model sits in the overall scheme of things.

widow1 · September 2005

Thanks for the tip on the NJ dealership with the 2005 Civics. Any idea how painful their dealer doc fee is ? I've found plenty of 2005 EX coupes and LX sedans. It's the EX sedans that I'm finding are such rare beasts. I'm after a magnesium metallic or a gray one in an automatic.

widow1 · September 2005

Thanks as well, Matt, for the Power Honda lead on the 2005s.

navigator89 · September 2005

"I agree with you that the Civic is visually unattractive - but I had to laugh at your other two choices, the Mazda3 and Caliber, which to my eye aren't going to win any beauty contests either."

Very interesting, rather funny that you should say that. Ok, I'll discount the Caliber as it's not out yet.

But the Mazda3? You really gotta be joking if you think the Mazda3 wont win a beauty contest, at least in the economy sedan segment. Looks are probably half the reason the editor and consumers picked this as their most wanted economy sedan. Remember, we are comparing economys sedans styling, not economy sedans vs. exotics.

So then, what economy sedan would you say does win the beauty contest? Nissan Sentra? Dodge Neon? Oh wait.....you probably think something ugly and plain like a Chevrolet Cobalt deserves to win the economy sedan beauty contest, right?

Of course this is all subjective, but it's rather funny (almost laughable) to find someone who finds the Mazda3 visually unappealing.

midnightcowboy · September 2005

yesroh,

"I am a competative cyclist" Outstanding keep it up. I rode my first century in 1976 and rode the last three years in the MS150: Houston to Austin. I still ride a lot not so competative anymore.

Giant Bikes!,

MidCow

heejoman · September 2005

I would've jumped on that 15K for a new Accord if they were available. I don't care about the new model in '06. Not much change. Got to wait couple more years for the '08 model and the new look.

$19.3K is for 2005 Honda Accord 4 cylinder 4 door LX auto. +ttl.

$24.7K for 2005 Honda Accord V6 4 door EX. +ttl.

I do like the Accords better than Camry. But in my small wallet, it's not worth addtional $3K.

Has anyone seen '07 Camry. It looks similar to GS 300.

But the bottom line is I am disappointed about the price hike on 06' Civic. $16K would be a sensible price for Civic auto LX if that was OTD price. Honda, FYI, smaller car market got much more competitive.

gearhead1 · September 2005

2006 Honda Civic Si= 197 hp, weighs 2900, Lsd,fwd,...0-60 7.5?
2006 Scion Tc= 160 hp, weighs 2900, fwd....0-60 7.5?
what went wrong?

The guys a TOV are getting 6.8 0-60 times with their production Si. Nothing went wrong. It's that upshift to 3rd at 58 mph that give the appearance of a slight lag. Further testing is coming.

widow1 · September 2005

Now, Dear, that's a very reactionary and sexist reaction in this day and age to describe a lady's response as "melodramatic" or excessively emotional. As for the dust, I'll bet your mommy did all your dusting. Now as to the defoggers, I'd like to get you out here in the Great Plains and have you take a drive with me in a serious winter snowstorm in the remote Nebraska Sandhills in reduced visibility and see if you think my concern with defogging all that mega class windshield on the new Civic is a real world concern or "ridiculous" as you describe it ? Would you be available ?

poopoo_head · September 2005

i am not a competitive cyclist, however this does not have anything to do with anything. umm...yes...

i do find that the mazda3 does not appeal to me. it's bloated and tries too hard to look sophisticated. the 06 civic, on the other hand just lets its aerodynamic lines define its simplicity, and its styling is already growing on me. the rear looks wicked. the mazda3 styling has not grown on me at all, in fact, it has degenerated on me when on day one i thought that the 5 door might have been nice.

oh, well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. what i do think will win beauty contests is the ford focus hatchback, especially the 5 door svt version, but any pre-facelift one will do it.

midnightcowboy · September 2005

Wouldn't it just be easier to move to better climate. Not reactionary; not melodramatic " Just the facts Maam" Ugh! Snowstorms Ugh reduced visiability!

LOL

Fog-on ( or should that be Fog OFF) ,

MidCow

play · September 2005

You could try one of those large hood ornaments like the Ram trucks have. That should do the trick.

Yes, yes, thats it. Thanks. I'll give it a shot, I mean a whirl, er ....a try.

play · September 2005

all you care about is the out the door complete price. nothing more. Do not enterinto a conmversation on anything else. You do not care if they charge $299 for a doc fee.

"how much out the door"?
I suggest you also get internet pricing. Same request.

Best of luck.

backy · September 2005

Maybe the Next New Thing we'll see is front-end radar to go along with the rear radar available in many cars.

micweb · September 2005

Agreed on the Mazda3 sedan, but I was thinking of the hatchback.

micweb · September 2005

I've had a couple of cars with steeply raked windshields/back windows, and it gets pretty tight trying to clean the inside of the windows near the dash/rear package tray. Not that this is a major issue. It is true that cars with these kind of windshields get hotter inside. Most heat inside a car cabin doesn't come from a hot roof, if comes from a dashboard and rear package tray heating up under the impact of the sun coming in. However, I have heard some cars now have window glass that blocks both ultraviolet and infrared (the heat rays). Anyone know anything about this, or about the type of glass on the new Civic.

jchan2 · September 2005

as far as I know, the state of Tennessee is sold out.

I like the 2006 though. The main things I'm attracted to are 40MPG, all 'bags, and the nice H badge on the front and rear ends, and the CIVIC badge on the back...

Not as attracted to the Corolla.

Still loving my '99 though, and it hasn't given up yet. In light of the high gas prices, it might be worth it to own 3 cars in my case. (less depreciation due to less miles being racked up, car purchases can be spaced out a little more (because of less mileage per car), and of course, the miniscule savings in gasoline)

stupidfool · September 2005

for the coupe and sedan both lx woot!

poopoo_head · September 2005

alright! please post your impressions, esp noise and ride harshness! thanks...

maferna · September 2005

Can you get pictures of the coupe? EX if possible? I have yet to see a real-world picture of the coupe.
Thanks!

crazycro · September 2005

Maybe that was all nonsense and you work for Mazda. Anywho your loss. :P

widow1 · September 2005

Hmmm, now here's a true gentleman. This man sticks to the facts. Midnight Cowboy,eh ? With that handle it sounds like you could live in my part of the country, but your answer indicates otherwise. Shucks ! Maybe you might consider moving here. Yeah, we have snowstorms and the visibility's bad, but look at the bright side. There's no congestion or crowding, no urban sprawl, plenty of elbow room, you're never stuck in traffic, never get a traffic ticket, little or no crime so you can leave for months and never lock your door, and car insurance is cheaper. You can even see cowboys punching cows down the middle of Cherry County highways near Ted Turner's mega ranch (one million acres +).

poopoo_head · September 2005

yes, less people to buy the civic so that the price goes down

midnightcowboy · September 2005

I like your responses very interesting and intriguing. I used to live where there was some snow but now I am in Houston. I like the outdoors and would like a lot less traffic; there are 4.4 milllion peopel in Houston and all of them drive, it sucks. I accidently have came across two that a good drivers and no they weren't in Priuses. Sorry to make light of your defrost problem; It you situation it is of concern and I hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

Have a good weekend!

MidCow

disappoited · September 2005

what field do you drive in. or do you drive

Honda Civic Sedan 2006

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