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Honda Odyssey 2005+

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Comments

  • ravichanderravichander Member Posts: 25
    The Honda got a 2 star and the T & C got 4 stars and the DC got 3 stars. I still chose an Odyssey since I know in the long term the Honda will last > 100 K miles easily whereas the Caravans will start to have problems after 70K. These are from personal experiences with Honda and Chrysler automobiles.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    100 K miles easily whereas the Caravans will start to have problems after 70K. These are from personal experiences with Honda and Chrysler automobiles.

    I had a Honda Civic, 1990 that made it to 80k before needing clutch and other items. Prvevious car was 1983 Cavalier with 190k trouble free miles (still with original clutch!!). Try going to the DC Minivan board and reading thru the problems....people with will over 100k miles. You're perpetuating a myth!! With the right treatment, ANY car can make it 250k miles.

    Interesting....only 2 stars??? Must have to do with all it's problems - poor gas mileage, brake problems, interior trim, power doors, AC condensers, 4 recalls and everything else you can find on these forums!!!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You are confusing JD Power rating with crash tests I believe.

    Odyssey gets 5 stars all around. The driver's door didn't "fly" open either. I saw the photo and it only opened a bit. No, it shouldn't have but a belted in passenger wouldn't have a problem.

    I have no idea how JD Power rates anything.
  • vrmvrm Member Posts: 310
    according to JD Power, 2005 Odyssey has an overall rating of 2 star, which is their lowest . This is really shocking! JD Power gave a 5 star rating to 2004 Odyssey. What did Honda do to go to a 2 start from 5 star after (supposed to be) improving over 2004. I am not trying to find all the negative things about Odyssey, but wanted to share and get opinion from all of you. I am (hopefully) going to get my Odyssey next week!

    Here is the website: http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/index.jsp


    If you have already paid for your Odyssey, it is a little late to worry about the JD Power rating. You should have studied this report *before* buying the vehicle.

    The 2005 Ody deserves a 2 star rating. Look at all the Quality problems this vehicle has been having. This is the worst new vehicle launch in Honda's history.
  • ctblumersctblumers Member Posts: 1
    We get 13 mpg suburban/city and 21 highway. This seems terrible compared to the 20/28 advertised. Would appreciate if others would share what they get. Thanks.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Are MUCH higher on dealer lots in Salt Lake City area than those of Caravan/Grand Caravan and Town & Country. The Dodge and Chrysler dealers have NO new 2005 minivans on their lots. ;)
    Last time I checked, all Honda dealers had a few Odysseys on their lots. :confuse:
  • dilbertzzzdilbertzzz Member Posts: 190
    Yes, "Employee Pricing" has been a very successful sales tool for the "domestics." They are certainly :)
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Are MUCH higher on dealer lots in Salt Lake City area than those of Caravan/Grand Caravan and Town & Country. The Dodge and Chrysler dealers have NO new 2005 minivans on their lots

    Looked online and heres the breakdown of the 4 dealerships in Salt Lake City
    2005 GRAND CARAVANS Available/I will call if you want LOL
    Hinkley Dodge-9 Grand Caravans
    Menlove Dodge- 5 Grand Caravans
    Ken Garff- 1 Grand Caravan
    Larry Miller- 4 Grand Caravans

    Most are SE's but there are some out there!! Go get um HANS!!!
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    ouch, another one :P
  • 2005odyelrn2005odyelrn Member Posts: 12
    that JD powerthing is pure BS. Everything is based on their own study????
    For sure ody'05 has problems! But I think they are minor. If DC or TW owner need to take comfort from that, let it be!
    I know from my exp all vehicles have problems. The recalls or anything else that has been dicussed in these forums are minor. I own Toyota as well as Honda. Both of them have their own problems. Since ody 2005 is a new vehicle and there is a lot of talk and expectation about it. Some has to do with the latest technology adopted. Lot of technology lot of problems. Look at that site for other car/van ratings. I am sure people will have surprizes. That's why people do not check that site may be. I never heard of this site before.

    anyway one more site to look at I guess! Add more to the confusion.... Welcome to the new way of buying car! ;)
  • minivanguyminivanguy Member Posts: 85
    I wonder how this one company can rate the Honda so bad, and just about every other company rate it good. :confuse:
  • mich_chowmich_chow Member Posts: 58
    I have not yet bought (paid for) the van, but still considering to buy. Here is why: I did a little more research and it looks like the JD Power ranking is based on consumer reports. Here is a quote from their site (one can follow the link Ratings guide to see this):

    "J.D. Power and Associates does not provide "expert opinion." The firm provides "voice-of-the-customer" research based on actual survey responses from real consumers. Please keep in mind that high ratings do not necessarily mean that every consumer will have a positive experience with a particular product or service provider. It simply indicates that, on average, the product/service/company stands out when compared with other, similar products/services/companies."

    Therefore, if the survey went to a group of people who were really unhappy, this could drag the ratings down a lot. And, who knows how many people they surveyed, and what geographical range, etc., etc., etc.

    Therefore, I would probably not rely on their rating as much as I would like to rely on the many years long standing reliability of Honda. Granted, that no vehicle is perfect, and my next Honda may not be totally defect free, but the probability of having a mechanical problem of a Honda is smaller than some other (other than Toyota) maker. The other fact about JD Power ratings is also very disturbing (I don't know if it just plain mistake or intentional), which is they show that according to NHTSA, Toyota Sienna have a five start rating for frontal impact (driver), which is totally wrong, because NHTSA gave Toyota Sienna a four start rating on this, not a five star. Secondly, the picture of 2005 Honda Odyssey in their website is not even a 2005 model, it is more like a 2004 or something. (you can follow their link to New Vehicle Advisor and click on different vans once you select compact vans). So, I have already found two errors on JD Power's reports and web-site and now getting suspicious about their reports reliability!

    To answer to some previous posts:
    Dear jipster: I am not sure when this report was released for the 2005 Odyssey by JD Power, but you are correct that they did give 2004 a five star.
    Dear isellhondas: I am not confusing the crash test ratings with JD Power rating (unless JD power did).
    Dear minivanguy: I (and I am sure many others) have the same question as you do.

    Here is one big ding to JD Power report (or rating, whatever you say), now that I am thinking more about it: they gave mechanical a four star, etc., and style a 2 star, right? Okay. But, if their research is totally based on "voice-of-the-customer" by actual survey responses from real consumers, then how can the style be rated only 2 star? Did all who responded to JD Power bought the vehicle who never liked the style to begin with? Would one buy something that looked a 2 star rating as far as style goes? I am really not believing their report!!!!
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Before my posting that Honda dealers have more Odyssey than DC have, these were the numbers:
    Wiley Honda had 8 Odysseys
    Ken Garff had 7 Odysseys :sick:
    ...BUT
    Ken Garff had 1 GC SE Plus
    Ken Garff had ZERO T&C.
    Doug Smith had ZERO T&C.
    Doug Smith had ZERO Caravan/Grand Caravan ;)
    ....( I did not check Larry H. Miller inventory for any brand and forgot all about Hinckley Dodge and Menlove Dodge since Menlove is usually known as Menlove Toyota :blush: )

    Since there are 4 DC minivans sold for every Odyssey, the Odyssey inventory was much higher in the Salt Lake City area than that of DC minivans. ;)
  • vanman12vanman12 Member Posts: 4
    I'm in Cda and while inventory is ok there are better color combos and some other advantages to buying a US vehicle and cost after conversion makes it even more compelling to look at buying in US. Question is does the warranty cover anywhere it is owned/driven or would I have to pay for warranty work in Cda and then get reimbursed by Honda USA. Thinking of the buyer who took his to Germany...any problems? others who bought on one side of border and then moved to the other - any prob lems with warranty coverage? thanks
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    I am not suprised by a initial quality 90 day study that rates this new design low. There are alot of nagging issues with this car that are getting sorted out. Wind noise from some trim and seals, brake noise, and a few nagging issues. Honda has shown me in the past they want to fix these issues(Father had transmission inspected and even though it had no problems replaced it because wear on second gear was too excessive at almost 60K).The mechanicial quaility was a 4 out of 5. Now if you want a car that scores well on these type tests buy a Toyota of there 11 offerings 6 score a 5 of 5 in overall initial quality. I think the long term quality once the bugs are out will be up there with the best look at the 1999 and 2000 odyssey initial and longterm! BTW JDPowers did a 3 year study on vehicle dependability guess who won the minivan segment. The Ford Windstar let's all go out and buy one of them!!LOL
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Interesting...I wish I had 100 sitting on my lot.

    SLC...used to go there on business quite often. Market St. Fish Restaurant. Still there?
  • pointatobpointatob Member Posts: 30
    any luck with your gas mileage improving?

    is your estimate based on the touring trip computer or are you calculating at fill-up?

    that is a little concerning; i assume you drive in a lot of stop-n-go traffic?
  • rockycow33rockycow33 Member Posts: 76
    I'm surprised the 05 with VCM doesn't seem to equal the mileage of the 99-2001 ody. I generally get 18 to 20 around town and just got back from a trip to San Antonio, Texas with 5 people and 250 pounds of luggage got 24 plus mpg for 1200 miles traveling around 75 mph. On the way back(two people and about 75 pounds of luggage from Amarillo to Denver went 488.7 miles and filled up with 18.27 gals. Very happy with this--had a tail wind. 26.7 mpg avg around 75 mph.

    Anyone getting the advertised mpg with the VCM or close to it?
  • pcsrpcsr Member Posts: 10
    Ours stinks too! 16-17 city/highway (my wife visits her Mom a lot which is 30 miles round trip, so we get a pretty good mixture of city/highway) and have not gotten over 23 highway.

    I am very, very angry at this. The 28 mpg highway was a key reason why I bought this dog. Very unhappy with our purchase for a variety of reasons - road noise, engine noise, repeated trips to the dealer, and really bad gas mileage among them. Thanks.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Our gas mileage had been so-so, but in the last couple weeks it jumped up a bit. We were averaging about 19-20mpg overall, generally a mix of town/rural/highway. Last two fillups have been 21.5mpg and 23mpg respectively. Last tank was about 20% town and 80% highway, plus it idled for about 1/2 hour at one point. These were with at least 4 passengers and the A/C running constant. I run 75-80mph on the highway. I've also noticed the VCM has been staying on more and the power seems a bit better. I was cruising at 75mph and even pulling some small hills with the cruise set and the VCM was active. We've crossed 4500 miles. Most of my cars in the past (with the exception of my diesel VW) barely average 24mpg so I'm pleased. Big vehicle with good power.
  • odymikeodymike Member Posts: 23
    I think it is too early to tell with our Ody. Only on third tank of fuel - didn't bother calculating the first tank - so much idle and show n' tell time. 2nd tank was 17.4 MPG (computer calc'd 17.1), 3rd tanks was 18.0 (computer calc'd 17.6) mostly urban with some highway miles. So at this point I am pleased with the improvement, and am still 'breaking it in.' One thing to note for all Ody owners is this, if you partake in utilizing the 255HP often - you will have horrible fuel mileage. No sticker value can save you from your own lead foot. The EPA test or whatever it is called numbers are done in a very controlled and conservative manner, and I believe the top speed is only 59.5 MPH for a very short distance. Also, I believe is was noted that the VCM will disengage at speeds in excess of 75 MPH - no surprise here. The Odyssey is a large vehicle, any object at speed will encounter a large amount of drag as it pushes away all of that air. So it only makes sense that more power and fuel is used.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    VCM cuts off at 82mph. Cruising at 80mph the light stays on surprisingly often. I do use the pedal a lot, as with all my vehicles so I prefer to compare to what I've driven before. If my average stays in the 20-24mpg range, that's on-par with most of my cars so it's quite reasonable in my book. I think the EPA numbers are half bogus for anything with a less than conventional engine. I've always pegged the EPA figures fairly closely in the past, but with Hybrids and variable/multi displacement engines, I think they stroke the EPA guildlines a bit. The low-speeds the EPA tests use are easily manipulated with a non-conventional engine that performs drastically better at lower speeds than most folks drive on the highway.
  • ravichanderravichander Member Posts: 25
    I am very, very angry at this. The 28 mpg highway was a key reason why I bought this dog.

    My Accord 2000 barely gives 28-30 mpg in highway driving and it is only 155hp. You want a 255 hp large van to give 28 mpg? You must have known by now that the EPA estimates are unusually positive since it done at 55 m/h on cruise control with no AC. Do you drive like that? Or does anyone drive like the EPA driver? When the new methodology of EPA estimates are put in place, all vehicle mpg ratings will go down but they will look like real life numbers.

    Tell me which comparable van (Sienna, T & C and Quest) gives 28 mpg on the highway consistently?
  • dilbertzzzdilbertzzz Member Posts: 190
    I think the point is that the published figures are so very far from the real-world performance that folks are seeing. It doesn't hold water to use the EPA figures "only for comparison" if the comparison doesn't hold up because you have to do your own adjustments based on weight and engine hp. The numbers posted are not useful (for comparison or any other purpose except maybe raising customers' ire :mad: ) and should definitely be revised to numbers that are!
  • vrmvrm Member Posts: 310
    Dear Mich:
    It is upto you if you want to believe or not believe the JP Power ratings. The JP Power rating simply reflects the view of the Ody owners.

    You will agree that the 2005 Ody has had lots of quality problems. Some folks consider these problems to be minor but others who have spent their hard earned money expect better quality from a $30K vehicle.

    Do let us know ultimately what you decide! Good Luck!
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    anyone gone on a long trip and used that little 8th seat yet???
    have a chevy venture with 8 seats (only reason to buy GM back then!!) but GM in its infinite marketing wisdom no longer makes any minivans with 8 seats so its either the Sienna , which has a proper 8 th seat, or the Ody with that weird little thing. Sitting in the dealership and in it for a few miles the kids don;t seem to mind but wondering what its really like for prolonged periods. Seems like it can't possibly be as good as a "proper" seat.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    I disagree. EPA Highway fuel ratings can very easily be achieved by driving within the posted speed limits under normal conditions. :blush:
    I have always been able to get better than EPA ratings by driving responsibly but Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, and Mojave Desert of California have long stretches of open road. ;)
    On the other hand, EPA City ratings are not so easily achieved if driving in stop and go traffic. It is virtually impossible to have identical driving situations in city driving.
    ( I quickly deleted posting # 4214 when I realized it was in the wrong forum).
  • 2005odyelrn2005odyelrn Member Posts: 12
    I still don't understand.
    Why would ody owners rate the ody body styling 2*.
    I wold think if you do not like the body styling you go buy something else that you like.
    Something iffy there. Looks like not all ratings are given by ody owners. Some may be given out by some independent judges/companies who get paid by Toyota?
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    depends on how big the kid is and who's sitting next to him/her
  • drmonkydrmonky Member Posts: 7
    We were interested in purchasing a 2005 Black Odyssey EX-L but were unable to find one in our area. It seems that Black is not a popular color and unless you are interested in the ubiquitous desert sand you are out of luck. We had great dealer quote ($27.7)and gave him a deposit but he was couldn't find one anywhere.

    Anyway he has now offered us a 2006 Black Odyssey for the same price plus the difference in invoice between 2005-2006. He claims it should only be about $300.

    Does this seem reasonable? Does anybody have any insight into what the invoice will be for the 2006? I can't seem to find anything on the internet about the 2006.

    Thanks.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "The JP Power rating simply reflects the view of the Ody owners."

    Precisely why I take their ratings with a large grain of salt.

    Yes, they reflect the views of owners. Owners aren't biased? If a buyer goes into a Honda purchase with a higher expectation than a buyer going into a Ford purchase, then it is entirely possible that the Honda could get more 'negative' reviews even if there are fewer ACTUAL problems. Why? Expectations.

    Given all the accolades the Ody received over the years, would you say that buyers of the redesigned 'new and improved' Ody would have had extremely high expectations? Given all the chest-beating in the various Ody forums prior to the '05 introduction, one would have gotten the impression from the various Ody fans that Honda was about to release a world-slayer minivan at least a full generation better than anything else on the planet. High expectations is an understatement.

    And then when people hear some minor whistling around some exterior trim pieces (just using this as an example), suddenly they're ready to string Honda up.

    "expect better quality from a $30K vehicle."

    For perspective - most of the items which people have complained about are found on every trim level of the Ody, from the base LX all the way up to the Touring. So, would you expect better quality from a $25k vehicle? Would you expect better quality from a $25k vehicle with as much content as an Odyssey? Or do you think that the line workers say, "Whups, here comes a Touring. Make sure you get all the parts out of the 'good' bin. Oh, good, there's an LX behind it. We can sleep through that one."

    Put it another way, check out all the complaints in the various BMW or MB "Problems and Solutions" threads. Seems as though some of the complaints found here can be found on vehicles costing more than $50k. In other words, you $30k isn't going to guarantee a perfect automobile. Why do owners expect it to?

    You expect it because it's a Honda. And when you don't get, the vehicle gets slammed in a JD Powers survey. And that is why I don't take their survey results on face value.
  • ravichanderravichander Member Posts: 25
    You pointed it out, rorr. High expectations. If Honda vehicles are not anything but perfect, they get slammed. So does Toyota. And any new model year will have some problems that need to be ironed out. I could have bought a 2006 model with much less problems but I decided to take a chance on 2005 Odyssey because of invoice price (rather than MSRP) and I trust the Honda’s reputation for long term quality control.

    My main expectation is that this vehicle should run for at least 200K with regular scheduled maintenance. It should not breakdown in the middle of nowhere and leave me stranded. I do not want to pay for expensive repairs at 60-100K on it. I do not care for residual value as I plan to keep it till it dies. I researched many vehicles and only Sienna and Odyssey fit my bill. I chose the Odyssey because it was less expensive.

    I discovered 2 minor problems. Occasionally the red alarm light will blink even before the doors are closed and sometimes the car makes the “honking” alarm sound after pressing the remote twice but the red light does not come on. Once the power doors did not open with the remote and I had to start the vehicle and use the buttons on the dashboard. Since then it has worked well. If I had been on the JD survey I would have not minded these (since the Honda service department can take care of it with the 1st free oil change) and given it a very good rating. But another Honda owner might have gotten irritated and given it lower rating. So take JD initial rating with a grain of salt and keep Honda’s reputation for manufacturing long term quality vehicles in mind if you plan to purchase a minivan.
  • dilbertzzzdilbertzzz Member Posts: 190
    Talking about EPA mileage estimates in general, I agree with you. My point is that these specific EPA mileage estimates for the 2005+ Odyssey in particular seem to be out of line. IOW, few if any folks here have reported actually achieving or even approaching the EPA estimated mileage. That ain't good! :(
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Few 2005 Odyssey owners may be getting the EPA gas mileage because the Odyssey has so much power the owners are drag racing and beating the Porsches, BMW's, Corvettes, Vipers, 300C, etc at the stop light.
    Wouldn't it be fun to see the shock on the face of a proud owner of a high performance car when the Odyssey leaves them in the dust? ;)
    With a lower powered minivan, there is no temptation to drag race or pass all other vehicles on the Freeway.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    Honda typically raises prices very little ($200-400 MSRP) at the start of a new model year.

    This sounds like a good deal, especially to get exactly what you want.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    When Odyssey gets a good rating from ONE of the testers in the car magazines, all we hear is how right and accurate they are. But if the owners themselves don't agree with the ONE tester, (Who is a journalist first not an engineer) they dismiss the owners, saying that their expectations were too high. Somehow it does not make sense.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Yes, apparently you are missing something. As far as I can tell, virtually every reviewer in every magazine has picked either the Ody or Sienna (usually the Ody) as the 'best' minivan on the current market. And FYI, many of the reviewers in publications like Car and Driver have their education in engineering (which is one of the reasons why these reviewers tend to favor handling and performance over cushy comfort and high feature/dollar ratios).

    And when you also take into account the virtually rabid following the previous generation of Ody had, then I think making a statement about high expectations is valid.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Can you offer any validation to the statement that the reviewers have an education in engineering?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    An excellent post that pretty much sums up the way I feel myself.

    Then there are those who seem to love it when Honda stumbles. If they have a recall over something, they make sure the world knows about it etc.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I know Frank Marcus has engineering background and worked for DCX, he was with Car & Driver, now I think he's at Motor Trends as Technical Editor?

    Still, not all do and it's mostly personal opinion. I for one don't put too many people on pedestals, they put their pants on the same way we all do. I also happen to have engineering degree....SO WHAT!!!!

    And look at some of the track records, like Motor Trends "COY" award...they pick some really great losers!!!!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Ohhhh boo hoo hoo, Honda guys don't hold back with "My Oddy is 1.5 secs faster to 60 mph" or "so and so magazine loves Oddy's" or "Oddys handle like sports cars" and on and on and on!!!!!!
  • vrmvrm Member Posts: 310

    You expect it because it's a Honda. And when you don't get, the vehicle gets slammed in a JD Powers survey. And that is why I don't take their survey results on face value.


    All new vehicles have defects. The important factor is the number and type of defects.

    When I pay $30K for a vehicle, I do NOT expect:

    -the vehicle to be recalled 2+ times within 6 months.
    -the battery to lose charge or be defective after 2500 miles
    -steering wheel vibration at 60 mph
    -check engine light to go on after leaving the dealership

    More importantly, I do not expect a :lemon:

    If owners have *problems* with vehicles, those problems are reflected in the JD Power Initial Quality Survey. The survey does not reflect "expectations" but the number of defects in a new vehicle. Get it?
  • davantdavant Member Posts: 294
    My $.02 not that anyone asked. Let's all get over that price equates to quality with the comment that you should expect fewer problems because it's a $30K vehicle. As was pointed out, hop over to the exotics forums and it gets worse as price goes up or only the unhappy ones show up. Using that logic, the entry level Kia (longest warranty) should have the most or worst problems and Bentley or Ferrari owners should have none. What these extreme ends of the food chain do share is that neither come to Edmunds to write about it, not even their parents or servants. Realize that as also pointed out quite well, you expect quality because it is a Honda! Perhaps Honda is an acronym for Honda Odysseyfans Need Darnreliable Automobiles? If the same vehicle were rebadged as Acura and added massaging heated & cooled seats, built in X-Box2/PS3, a fridge, a power lazy James (as opposed to a manual lazy Suzan), paper thin glovebox gaps, and even a fur lined gold trimmed coinholder, have an MSRP of $45K, we'd be having this same conversation but I'd still buy it. Maybe we should call it the Acura FL (Family Luxury) or since I live here, the 'Florida' model, LOL?

    Truth is, the Ody is a great vehicle in a field of basically four (Sienna, Quest, T&C), IMO close to nearly as good. We're holding out for an '06 Touring mostly out of curiosity to see if minor QA problems, RF Tires, (depending on your engineering background read that as Run Flat, Radio Frequency, or Really Funky) are fixed and what other nits are resolved. It's interesting to see how JD and crew organize consumer feedback but it won't taint my buying decision nor will CR to a great extent or any collective set of individual 'expert' reviews. Take them, as mine as simply one persons opinion and find the vehicle you enjoy most.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "When I pay $30K for a vehicle, I do NOT expect:

    -the vehicle to be recalled 2+ times within 6 months.
    -the battery to lose charge or be defective after 2500 miles
    -steering wheel vibration at 60 mph
    -check engine light to go on after leaving the dealership"



    At what price point DO you expect these things to happen? Are you saying that if you only spent $15k on a new car, you would EXPECT these things to happen?

    Bottom line, these things shouldn't happen period. But they do. These things happen on cars costing $15k, they happen on cars costing $30k, and they happen on cars costing $100k. But because they happen relatively RARELY, when they DO happen, they are UNEXPECTED.

    Surveys and defects: I'll give you an example of why expectations can skew the results. I've seen a few discussions in the Ody boards about a 'defective' alignment of the upper glove box door in the new vans. Apparently, when the upper glove box door is closed, it is possible to see through the gap between the upper door and the lower main door. It is particularly noticible when there is some white paper (napkins or such) in the upper glove box. People have complained about this as a 'defect'.

    Is it a 'defect'? Or are all Odysseys that way? Perhaps the design is such that there simply is a gap between the two doors? Perhaps the engineers didn't what the possiblility of rattles arising from these two doors being jammed right up against one another. Yet, because this is an Odyssey, the owner's have this 'expectation' that there WON'T be a gap there.

    If this same exact gap were found in a similar feature in a Ford or DCX van, would it be reported by the owners as a 'defect'? Or would these owners simply assume that was the way it was supposed to be?

    THIS is how expectations can skew the results of an owner survey.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Very true. The glove box thing bothers me as I expect better fit/finish from a Honda, but it's certainly not a defect in my book. It was that way when I bought it, as were all the others on the lot. Someone else may likely report it as a defect.

    If you'll remember the Hummer H-2 had the worst JD Power score, and it was overwhelmingly due to owners reporting a glaring defect: poor gas mileage!! The H2 doesn't require an EPA sticker, and folks just couldn't understand why a 6500# vehicle with a 6.0L V8 was getting 10-12mpg!
  • dilbertzzzdilbertzzz Member Posts: 190
    Shucks, I don't know, it might be terribly unnerving to me if I were to suddenly get distracted by the unexpected glimpse through the gap around my closed glove box of "white paper (napkins or such) in the upper glove box" :surprise: :mad: ;)

    Actually, petty as it may sound to you, I personally think that $30,000 is a pretty good cut off point at which I would expect that such annoying little details might well be avoided. If I were buying a bottom-end commuter car (as I did when I bought a year-old 2003 Taurus for $12,000 out the door!) I might be inclined to forgive such minor annoyances as the price for a cheap ride.

    But, this isn't the bottom-end of minivans we are talking about here. It just seems to me that a little bit more class, well-thought-out design, fit, finish, and lack of problems is a reasonable request for your money.

    As for the really expensive cars out there having trouble too, well, a lot of those complaints are direct results from trying to include every single cutting-edge accoutrement possible. And frequently, in European cars, it is exacerbated by trying to stick those features onto vehicles designed more for performance and less for us spoiled and lazy Americans who want our entire family room to accompany us and easily available on every trip we make. :blush:
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    From the Ody posts I have read it is usually just the opposite. Many Ody owners minimize the problems they are having with their van.The expectation that the Ody is the best van on the market has influenced many purchases,opinions and reviews, in a positive manner, I'm sure. The problems vrm listed on his Ody are there in black and white.
    No one expects to have those kind of problems within 6 months of buying a new car. But, if it happens to you it doesn't really matter if the problem is rare or unexpected...because it's your problem...and your the one that has to deal with it.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "No one expects to have those kind of problems within 6 months of buying a new car."

    Absolutely. Why? Because these types of problems are RARE. They are rare in DCX vans, they are rare in Siennas, and they are rare in Odysseys. What gets me is the "this will be the first and last Honda I EVER buy" type of comments where the individual extrapolates (insinuates) that because their Odyssey has these issues, all Hondas are so afflicted.

    Personally, I don't pay any attention to JD Powers Initial quality surveys. I don't care about some tiny paint blemish or exterior trim piece that is misaligned by 3 mm. Some may feel that these initial items are indicative of long-term quality. I don't. Just like I don't feel that day to day fluctuations in a particular stock are indicative of long term results. What I do care about is reliability results from long-term owners. What is the vehicle like 3-4-5 years down the road? "Initial Quality Surveys" don't necessarily reflect this.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Can you offer any validation to the statement that the reviewers have an education in engineering?

    The July issue of C&D was their 50th anniversary issue. They had lengthy backgrounds on all their current and past editors and writers. IIRC, most started in engineering or marketing in the auto industry and then moved into writing.

    This link gives some specifics: http://www.hfmus.com/HachetteUSA/Page.asp?Site=CarDriver&Page=Editorial

    IIRC, Patrick Bedard worked as an engineer for Chrysler before getting into auto racing and writing.

    Over at Autobile, Jean Jennings worked in automotive design before writing as did Robert Cumberford and Phil Llewellin (RIP).

    I'd have to say that if they weren't not engineers initially, they are enthusiasts and bring more of a performance and subjective seat of the pants slant to the job as opposed to the highly subjective methods of a Consumer Reports.
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